Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

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Shelcoof
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Re: Converter to play HDMI consoles on a CRT?

Post by Shelcoof »

nmalinoski wrote:
Shelcoof wrote:Luckily the Portta HDMI to VGA converter is good. I bought it off the recommendations from RetroRGB

The Portta comes with a power supply but it's not needed. Actually if you do use it you'll have bad results
In some cases, the power supply is very much needed. I bought one on the recommendations from this thread, and immediately ran into issues trying to use it without the power supply.

I used it to hook a RasPi Model B into the VGA port on one of my old Asus monitors with a native resolution of 1680x1050. The power light came on as soon as I connected the HDMI cable, but the screen remained black until I connected the power supply. Maybe it works fine without the power supply when converting SD, or maybe even ED, resolutions, but clearly not when trying to use anything close to full HD.
full HD converts fine

Depends if your device is powerful enough

My vita tv needs the ac but everything else doesn't
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Danexmurder
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Re: Converter to play HDMI consoles on a CRT?

Post by Danexmurder »

I got my tvone corio 2 c2-400 and have been trying to get it set up using the osd without any luck. I’ve been using a pc monitor to start but my goal is to get it outputting rgbs through a switch to my PVM sand bvm. It seems like I need to go through the window scale pixel settings but even when I set it to output 720x240 that resolution doesn’t show up in the output settings. Any advice?
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Restart_Point
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by Restart_Point »

OP here, it suddenly struck me that I do not need to buy anything, I have dusted off my old Wii, put RetroArch on it and it hooks up to my Sony CRT via RGB Scart fine. Problem solved for now. Thanks for the information on the various devices though. (Bonus: I get to play Castlevania ReBirth, Contra ReBirth and Gradius ReBirth too :) )
Dochartaigh
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Re: Converter to play HDMI consoles on a CRT?

Post by Dochartaigh »

Danexmurder wrote:I got my tvone corio 2 c2-400 and have been trying to get it set up using the osd without any luck. I’ve been using a pc monitor to start but my goal is to get it outputting rgbs through a switch to my PVM sand bvm. It seems like I need to go through the window scale pixel settings but even when I set it to output 720x240 that resolution doesn’t show up in the output settings. Any advice?
To start, re-install the firmware on your C2-400 so it's back to factory settings.

Then program in the 240p resolution setting orange808 has posted the values for. You do this on your computer with the free Corio Tools Suite software - you'll need a cheap USB to Serial programmer cable.

After it's programmed I plug it into my 15khz CRT, and force it into 480p mode via the 480p keypress. It'll be scrambled but you can see it just enough to scroll over to the menu where you can turn on the 240p preset you made. Then the very next window over lets you switch it from RGBHV to RGBS mode and you'll get a solid picture.

You can also do this last step via the CorioTools suite software too, but I haven't written out those exact directions so just play around with it. I have a couple videos and a tutorial I'll post when I get some time that goes more into detail on how to get the C2-400 up and running.
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Danexmurder
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Re: Converter to play HDMI consoles on a CRT?

Post by Danexmurder »

Dochartaigh wrote:
Danexmurder wrote:I got my tvone corio 2 c2-400 and have been trying to get it set up using the osd without any luck. I’ve been using a pc monitor to start but my goal is to get it outputting rgbs through a switch to my PVM sand bvm. It seems like I need to go through the window scale pixel settings but even when I set it to output 720x240 that resolution doesn’t show up in the output settings. Any advice?
To start, re-install the firmware on your C2-400 so it's back to factory settings.

Then program in the 240p resolution setting orange808 has posted the values for. You do this on your computer with the free Corio Tools Suite software - you'll need a cheap USB to Serial programmer cable.

After it's programmed I plug it into my 15khz CRT, and force it into 480p mode via the 480p keypress. It'll be scrambled but you can see it just enough to scroll over to the menu where you can turn on the 240p preset you made. Then the very next window over lets you switch it from RGBHV to RGBS mode and you'll get a solid picture.

You can also do this last step via the CorioTools suite software too, but I haven't written out those exact directions so just play around with it. I have a couple videos and a tutorial I'll post when I get some time that goes more into detail on how to get the C2-400 up and running.
Thanks for all the help, I got it all up and running on my set up and I have to say I can't believe how good the switch looks running in 240p. Doom in particular blew me away. I really love the phosphor glow that you just don't get on modern sets. Games like Shovel Knight and The Messenger were just made to be played this way.

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Last edited by Danexmurder on Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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FinalBaton
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by FinalBaton »

@danexmurder Wow! scanlines seem to align pretty well with the art of Shovel Knight. Did you output 720p or 1080p from your Switch?

I might get one of those Corio unit, this is a fun thing to mess about with :P
-FM Synth & Black Metal-
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BazookaBen
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by BazookaBen »

I'm seeing a bunch of broken image links
Dochartaigh
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Re: Converter to play HDMI consoles on a CRT?

Post by Dochartaigh »

Danexmurder wrote:Thanks for all the help, I got it all up and running on my set up and I have to say I can't believe how good the switch looks running in 240p.
Most of your pictures aren't showing up for me, but I'm glad you got it working! These things have been pretty amazing for me too.
nmalinoski
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Re: Converter to play HDMI consoles on a CRT?

Post by nmalinoski »

Dochartaigh wrote:
Danexmurder wrote:Thanks for all the help, I got it all up and running on my set up and I have to say I can't believe how good the switch looks running in 240p.
Most of your pictures aren't showing up for me, but I'm glad you got it working! These things have been pretty amazing for me too.
Yeah, only the Doom 2016 screenshot is working for me; probably an issue with sharing/public settings on the other images, cause when I right-click > View Image in my browser, I get a Google login prompt.
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Danexmurder
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Re: Converter to play HDMI consoles on a CRT?

Post by Danexmurder »

nmalinoski wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:
Danexmurder wrote:Thanks for all the help, I got it all up and running on my set up and I have to say I can't believe how good the switch looks running in 240p.
Most of your pictures aren't showing up for me, but I'm glad you got it working! These things have been pretty amazing for me too.
Yeah, only the Doom 2016 screenshot is working for me; probably an issue with sharing/public settings on the other images, cause when I right-click > View Image in my browser, I get a Google login prompt.
Ah crap, they all showed up when I did my preview. I’m seeing the same thing as you guys from my mobile browser. I’ll re-check them first thing tomorrow.
tacoguy64
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by tacoguy64 »

Links are broken but man that Doom running on a crt looks quite nice. I might have to try this now.
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Danexmurder
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by Danexmurder »

Ok, links should be fixed. Not sure what happened there. Looked like google photos put the photos in a different album and that broke the links. Weird.
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Danexmurder
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by Danexmurder »

FinalBaton wrote:@danexmurder Wow! scanlines seem to align pretty well with the art of Shovel Knight. Did you output 720p or 1080p from your Switch?

I might get one of those Corio unit, this is a fun thing to mess about with :P
I'm currently outputting 1080p from the Switch to the Corio. For some reason when I knock it down to 720p or 480p my 14" BVM can't deal with the signal and turns green and messes up the contrast. My other Monitors take it just fine. Super weird. Either way I think it looks great at 1080.
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by Dochartaigh »

Danexmurder wrote:I'm currently outputting 1080p from the Switch to the Corio. For some reason when I knock it down to 720p or 480p my 14" BVM can't deal with the signal and turns green and messes up the contrast. My other Monitors take it just fine. Super weird. Either way I think it looks great at 1080.
I've output 1080p and 720p from an Xbox One X and Xbox 360 to the Corio2 and it was fine on literally 12 or so 240p CRT's (Sony PVM/BVM's for the most part). Maybe the monitor is damaged in some way?

I've been keeping a list and I have a couple people reporting they got the Switch to work on 720p mode on their C2-400.
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Danexmurder
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by Danexmurder »

Dochartaigh wrote:
Danexmurder wrote:I'm currently outputting 1080p from the Switch to the Corio. For some reason when I knock it down to 720p or 480p my 14" BVM can't deal with the signal and turns green and messes up the contrast. My other Monitors take it just fine. Super weird. Either way I think it looks great at 1080.
I've output 1080p and 720p from an Xbox One X and Xbox 360 to the Corio2 and it was fine on literally 12 or so 240p CRT's (Sony PVM/BVM's for the most part). Maybe the monitor is damaged in some way?

I've been keeping a list and I have a couple people reporting they got the Switch to work on 720p mode on their C2-400.
Yeah, I'm really not sure what the problem is with outputting direct into the corio at 720 or 480 from the switch. It's on a BVM-14E5U that I have the problem. The two PVM's are fine. What WILL work is if I send 1080p from my switch to my Extron USP 405 and then scale down to 720p or 480p and then send THAT signal to the Corio. I haven't messed with that very much though. I should probably play around with it some more to see if I prefer the way scanlines look with that input. Honestly though I'm really happy with it direct into the corio at 1080p.
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BazookaBen
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by BazookaBen »

You're really happy with this? Honestly, it's quite ugly. Look at the text in picture 10, in middle of the letter E in "legendary", for example, is supposed to be one line. Instead, it's two lines, because there isn't a proper 1:1 line conversion going on for that game. And notice all the letter E's above it have the split line on top and bottom, while the middle is correct.

And Zelda is a 900p game, not sure why you'd want to muddy it up by scaling it down to 240p. This shit is just dumb. Not trying to be inflammatory but that's my honest reaction to seeing this stuff.
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orange808
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by orange808 »

BazookaBen wrote:You're really happy with this? Honestly, it's quite ugly. Look at the text in picture 10, in middle of the letter E in "legendary", for example, is supposed to be one line. Instead, it's two lines, because there isn't a proper 1:1 line conversion going on for that game. And notice all the letter E's above it have the split line on top and bottom, while the middle is correct.

And Zelda is a 900p game, not sure why you'd want to muddy it up by scaling it down to 240p. This shit is just dumb. Not trying to be inflammatory but that's my honest reaction to seeing this stuff.
Yikes!

Yes, the scanlines don't map very well. You're right.

Do I like the results? Not personally.

Do I use the Corio2 for this? No. It's not my thing.

Is it dumb? No. It's just people experimenting with their hardware. It's all for giggles.

Also, there's always the possibility that we could use the OSSC's robust sampling features (chained through the Corio2) to get a better result.

Yes, the scalines don't map evenly and it looks odd. Maybe we can fix that. Maybe not. So what?
We apologise for the inconvenience
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BazookaBen
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by BazookaBen »

I wish the OSSC had a way to do an integer downscale of 720p or 480p without extra hardware, for stuff like Shovel Knight and Blaster Master Zero. It only has a line buffer, right? Maybe it would be possible for it to ignore every 2nd line (480p) or every second and third line (720p). and output at a 15kHz resolution.

I asked Marqs about this back in the early days of OSSC but I forget what he said.
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by Dochartaigh »

BazookaBen wrote:You're really happy with this? Honestly, it's quite ugly.
The guys who posted pics of 720p Switch to 240p on one of the CRT Facebook groups had some nice shots. For me, the Corio2's work very well for 480p content for sure:

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Even 1080p (which this was just a test, I'm not one to play 1080p consoles in 240p personally) looks great to my eyes:

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BazookaBen
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by BazookaBen »

Dochartaigh wrote: For me, the Corio2's work very well for 480p content for sure
You know what I always thought looked really stellar for 480p content? 480p.

...I mean, if it's a low res, pixel-art based game like Shovel Knight, then yeah, you want to display it at it's true, 240p resolution. You can do that for the PC version easily, whether CRT_Emu or Custom Resolution Utility or whatever, but with something like Switch you'll need an external scaler like the Corio. But what you missed is that you really need to hit the integer scaling ratio. Not 2.5:1, not 2.386:1, but 2:1, 3:1, etc.
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Danexmurder
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by Danexmurder »

BazookaBen wrote:You're really happy with this? Honestly, it's quite ugly. Look at the text in picture 10, in middle of the letter E in "legendary", for example, is supposed to be one line. Instead, it's two lines, because there isn't a proper 1:1 line conversion going on for that game. And notice all the letter E's above it have the split line on top and bottom, while the middle is correct.

And Zelda is a 900p game, not sure why you'd want to muddy it up by scaling it down to 240p. This shit is just dumb. Not trying to be inflammatory but that's my honest reaction to seeing this stuff.
Yep, I'm happy with it. Do I think it looks perfect? Not at all. But it's fun trying to figure this stuff out. Perhaps at some point I'll be able to find settings that work a little better as far as perfect integer scaling is concerned. This is a relatively new thing that people are trying out. It has taken a long time (not to mentions tons of effort and energy) to get upscaling to the place that it is today. I imagine the same will be true for getting modern stuff looking perfect on old CRTs.

In the future I'd try to check the tone of your posts a little more thoroughly if you *actually* aren't trying to be inflammatory.
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Re: Converter to play HDMI devices on a CRT?

Post by Dochartaigh »

BazookaBen wrote:You know what I always thought looked really stellar for 480p content? 480p.
If we're solely talking CRT's here (like we are here), there's a couple big problems with that. First is availability. 480p CRT's of a decent size (20"+) are extremely hard to find. Especially if you're not looking for 200+ pound behemoths like Sony HD consumer TV's. In a little less than two years I've found over a hundred PVM/BVM-type monitors so far. Only 7 of those were 480p compatible, only 3x were 20" or larger (and I paid going rate for several of those = VERY expensive because they're rare and there's a high demand for them).

For VGA PC monitors, do you know how many higher-quality 19"+ (i.e. Sony, Mitsubishi, ViewSonic, LaCie, and their rebrands, etc.) monitors I've found? Three. For all of these that also took searching every avenue of the web for multiple hours every. single. day. Hour upon hour round trips. Having to leave work early to make it there before the other 5+ people who wrote the person back arrive so I can grab it first. Oh, and back to these PC monitors, TWO were picked up within hours and I missed out on them (only have a single, lonely, nicer-quality 20" PC VGA monitor ;(

For consumer HD CRT's, I've picked up five or six of the higher-end models, breaking my back in the process, every single one was jacked-up to all and I ended up giving them away to somebody who wanted to put the time into trying to fix them.

Granted, finding smaller 17" CRT monitors (nothing high-end as those were usually larger), can be pretty easy...you can still pickup a consumer HD CRT (with some lag and upscaling going on), but that's about it for 480p CRT's. You can of course luck out and find something nicer, and larger, even for free, but one of the larger reasons many people downscale 480p to 240p is because they lack a nice 480p CRT, and don't want to have to resort to using a lcd/led/flatscreen type monitor or TV because they love the CRT look.



The second large reason (talking overall here about downscaling) is because people don't want to have to resort to playing those (mostly 6th gen) consoles in flickery 480i (again, because they lack a nice 480p CRT), because TONS of people absolutely hate the flicker 480i can give on a CRT. That's why there's this entire market revolving around downscaling higher resolutions to 240p via an Emotia, Mimo Genius, Corio2, etc.


So, like you said, there's still other ways about this, like emulation via PC or RP3 or whatnot, but there's still a very valid reason why people like to downscale, and a very valid reason why so many people (like the OP) don't have access to a nice 480p CRT (which would undoubtedly be SO much easier to do just like you said!). Plus, like has been said, it's simply fun to mess around with newer stuff on older CRT's!
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