N64 on Wii VC vs PC emulation.

[andykara2003]

Apologies for the relatively inane thread - I've been sure to do some searching before posting here, but can't come up with a definitive answer..

Would anyone know the latency incurred playing N64 games on Wii VC on a no lag CRT vs N64 + same CRT? And is Wii VC preferable to PC emulation in general for N64 games? The positives of PC emulation are anisotropic filtering and anti aliasing, which makes the games look very smooth on my NEC XV29+, but if there are gameplay/latency implications, I'd rather use Wii VC..

Of course, the more obscure the game is, the more likely there will be glitches etc. using PC emulation, but I'll be sticking to Mario64/kart/tennis, 1080, the Zeldas, Wave race etc. which are all core titles.

[Ikaruga11]

Okay so, there were 21 Nintendo 64 games officially released on the Wii Virtual Console.

• 1080° Snowboarding
• Bomberman Hero (Not available on the Wii U eShop)
• Cruis'n USA (Not available on the Wii U eShop)
• F-Zero X
• Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards
• Mario Golf
• Mario Kart 64
• Mario Party 2
• Mario Tennis
• Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber
• Paper Mario
• Pokémon Puzzle League (Not available on the Wii U eShop)
• Pokémon Snap
• Sin and Punishment (1100 Wii Points. Japanese Import)
• Star Fox 64
• Super Mario 64
• Super Smash Bros. (Not available on the Wii U eShop)
• The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
• The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
• Wave Race 64
• Yoshi's Story

If you still have at least 1000 Wii Points left on your Wii Shop Channel account, you can purchase any of these games until January 30th, 2019 when the Wii Shop Channel will permanently shut down for good. Sin & Punishment is the exception as it is 1100 Wii Points due to being a Japanese import title. After that date, Bomberman Hero, Cruis'n, Pokémon Puzzle League and Super Smash Bros. will be officially unobtainable anywhere except for the original Nintendo 64 cartridges as they were never released on the Wii U eShop.

All 21 Nintendo 64 games on the Wii Virtual Console are rendered in a native 640x480p (or 640x480i if your Wii is set to 480i in System Settings -> Resolution). That is four times the resolution of the original 320x240p that nearly all of these games ran at on the original Nintendo 64 hardware. These can be played with either the GameCube Controller, the Classic Controller [Pro], or any controller hooked up to the GCN/Wii Remote ports with the Raphnet Adapter. Most if not all games released on any system's Virtual Console have emulators specifically designed for each game. Thus, you cannot simply inject any Nintendo 64 game into one of these emulators. Here is a compatibility list of which N64 games you can inject into which N64 VC games.

https://wiki.gbatemp.net/wiki/WiiU_VC_N ... ility_list

There are some graphical glitches in some games, such as white seams on some geometric edges. In Paper Mario, the moving rainbow reflections on the ground of Shooting Star Summit are not present on the Wii/Wii U Virtual Console releases. Also, the rumble feature is not present on games such as Ocarina of Time.

As for the input latency of Nintendo 64 games on the Wii Virtual Console (and Wii U Virtual Console for that matter too), I don't believe anyone has ever actually done any formal or conclusive testing. However, a lot of people have mentioned that the Wii U VC releases of N64 games are darker, more pixelated and have more input latency than the Wii VC releases.


I think PC emulation of Nintendo 64 games is superior to what the Wii/Wii U Virtual Console can offer. Like you said, anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering can be enabled, in addition to being able to render in 240p, 480i, 720p, or higher. Real Nintendo 64 hardware is limited to 240p and 480i, while Nintendo 64 games on the Wii/Wii U Virtual Console are limited to 480p.

[andykara2003]

I appreciate that you've taken the time to answer - but I've noticed quite a few times over the couple of years you've been posting on here that you have a habit of 'mansplaining' in response to people here. Remember that this particular forum is frequented by people who really know what they're talking about when it comes to video games.

Your replies are more suited to a forum where people enjoy gaming but don't know much about the more in depth or technical side of things . Most of us already know this kind of stuff and the trouble with explaining obvious information like this is that it can clutter up the forum and detract from the matter in hand. I don't mean to be insulting but you've done this so much that I felt the need to say it.

I already have the VC games I want and was aware of the eshop's position, the Wii U VC situation and everything else you mentioned and it appears that the you don't know about the performance differences I was specifically asking about. AA and AF are a factor but performance and latency comes first for me. Please, if you wouldn't mind, don't post any more in this thread as it'll only derail thing further.


So saying that, does anyone else know of specific performance/latency differences between the Wii (not Wii U) and PC emulation of N64 titles, not taking into account AA, AF or resolution?

[Ikaruga11]

I didn't think you knew, but okay.

[andykara2003]

No worries and no offence intended :)

Edit: I feel I was too blunt in my reply - my apologies.

[Hoagtech]

I do not prefer PC emulation because it is mostly broken.

I use a n64 to usb adapter and play it on my CRT Monitor through a DAC in High res XGA.

If project 64 fixed there sound issues I would be much happier. The sound breaks are jarring. (try goldeneye startup)

I believe most of the video plugins are Open GL and Direct 3d based which could be outdated support for GTX 1080.

I tried third party plug ins and had even more issues with missing textures, gameplay speed, and sometimes freezing.

I am happy with VC console lag but am just now figuring out homebrew. So it might get better.

64 Does not have a lot of good options it seems ATM.

[orange808]

This question belongs on the Libretro forums. That's where the people hang out that might consider testing this.

"N64splaining" warning!!

Your question is huge!

I don't know of anyone that has taken the time to: mount an led light to a microswitch, wire the microswitch to both Wii and N64 controllers, hooked up two identical displays, and used a high speed global shutter camera to analyze the differences on multiple games. That would be a huge project, but it's the only way to get a clear answer.

If it ever happens, I would expect the results to end up on the Retroarch forums. Also, the only people (I know of) that might consider doing the test hang out there. If (and when) this test is performed, it will get big attention and plenty of eyeballs; it won't be an obscure little reddit entry or game forum post.

Bottom line: nobody knows for sure. Ask the Retroarch community to test it.

[andykara2003]

Thanks for your replies guys, very much appreciated. I'll go to the Libretro forums and ask there.

Apologies again to Generalight - you're a valued member of the community and I was way too blunt.

[maxtherabbit]

Can't believe I read someone using the word mansplaining unironically here of all places. I weep for mankind

[Lord of Pirates]

Can't believe I read someone using the word mansplaining unironically here of all places. I weep for mankind

The 'word' needs to be cast into the fires of Mordor before it's too late .

[bigbadboaz]

Seriously - Andy has already apologized twice so I was gonna let it go.. but of all the Godforsaken worthless hypersensitive modern PC-type terms to throw around in the Shmups forum: really?!?

[andykara2003]

It wasn't meant in the usual sense, rather in lieu of a better term of which I couldn't think at the time - hence the quotes. Either way, I think you all got the gist.

[Ikaruga11]

Thanks for your replies guys, very much appreciated. I'll go to the Libretro forums and ask there.

Apologies again to Generalight - you're a valued member of the community and I was way too blunt.

You're fine. My response had nothing to do with the question anyway, so your reaction was quite understandable and justified.

Surprisingly, it seems no one has ever done any concrete scientific testing for the input latency of N64 Wii VC games. I've scoured the web and it's all just personal anecdotes and accounts from various people on different forums, which is quite frankly nearly useless information since it cannot be confirmed. There are no hard or concrete numbers it seems, unfortunately.

[andykara2003]

You're fine. My response had nothing to do with the question anyway, so your reaction was quite understandable and justified.

Surprisingly, it seems no one has ever done any concrete scientific testing for the input latency of N64 Wii VC games. I've scoured the web and it's all just personal anecdotes and accounts from various people on different forums, which is quite frankly nearly useless information since it cannot be confirmed. There are no hard or concrete numbers it seems, unfortunately.

Thank you, and very good of you to say so. I just saw your post after also doing a more thorough search and totally agree - it seems no one has done proper testing. I might have to look into doing it myself at some point..