First steps into arcade collecting... Newbies need some help

[Galdelico]

Hi all,
a good friend of mine is going to move in a new place soon and have a more spacious gameroom, so he's willing to add an arcade cab to his collection. Even though he's pretty good at shmups - he used to lurk around here for hi-scores and challenges, yet he never signed in - he's new to arcade collecting, hence I'm looking for basic infos on his behalf (mind you, I'm even newber... Apologies in advance for the down to the ground level of my questions).

- First of all: what kind of cab comes the most recommended nowadays? He's going to play vertical shmups for the most part, but also has a nice AES/MVS collection, so it's not going to be tate-only gameplay.

- His first pick-up will be Dimahoo, but he's been warned/he read stuff about batteries on arcade boards (in general? Is this correct?) reaching some sort of lifespan limit, and so inevitably dying... He would like to know what exactly one needs to especially look at, when jumping into pcb collecting.

- He's located in Italy, just in case some Italian member might want to get in touch and give him some clue directly.

I'm aware similar questions must be super frequent, on here, yet a brief search didn't give me great results, so feel free to just point me in the right direction, if the same topic has been already discussed anywhere else (I'm most active in the OSSC thread, but I'm not a huge poster). Any help would come massively appreciated.

Thank you all! ^_-

[Xyga]

It's not at all a common question anymore since everything arcades today costs about ten times what it did in the 2000's
So the only ones still into it either bought most of their cabs and pcbs back then, or are loaded and can still purchase the hardware and games at today's prices.
(by the way note that many owners have left this community or only rarely visit, they either quit shmups/arcades or 'meet' elsewhere whith smaller groups of people still into genuine arcades, other forums, discord, etc)

Basically getting into arcades now means burning a lot of money, but also a lot of patience, since stocks of the good stuff (cabs and pcbs) are significantly lower worldwide.
Cabs coming with a monitor in good shape are also much more scarce.

Prized candy cabs featuring rotation like the Taito Egret II used to be popular among shmuppers, today a good one goes for a lot considering chances you'll also pay an indecent carrier fee are high.
Some less fancy European cabs normally go for less than the Japanese, some also featured a rotation mechanism, but it's so far away now that I don't remember which ones...

The best alternative hardware-wise is a supergun with a CRT TV (scart of course), exactly the same results for tiny fraction of the price.
The best alternative hardware and games-wise is a 15KHz setup (mini-pc with GroovyMAME + CRT scart TV + stick) with nearly-identical results for tons of titles, at an infinitesimal fraction of the price (quite the learning curve though, it's not at all a plug-and-play solution)

[orange808]

My cabinet is a Double Dragon upright. I removed the control panel and made a new one drilled for six buttons. It's very easy to do.

It's a nice cabinet because the monitor sits in a factory designed rotatable bracket. The monitor can be mounted in any orientation with very little effort.

There's a convenient drawer on the bottom for switching games.

Of course, they aren't easy or cheap anymore.

Honestly, I think you should build/buy a custom cabinet that holds a consumer CRT television and a supergun.

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

I second the GroovyMame 15khz PC option, try all of the games for a while and if you truly like a particular game(s) then look at getting the PCB but yes PCBs are expensive. There are about 5 games that I want but I gave up on them because I am not willing to pay the money that they are going for. I have been using Mame since forever and in most cases I prefer Mame than the real thing.

[korpse413]

does groovymame emulate down to the hardware level where it requires a supergun or can one use a usb arcade stick?

I need a 'supergun for dummies' thread haha. I am in same boat as OP and his bud

[pmp]

Groovymame is a distribution of mame with optimizations for crts monitors. You just run it on a PC like regular mame.

[Galdelico]

Thank you all, guys. Much appreciated.

I'll report back and update.
Thanks again. ^_-

[mr. newbie]

I would like to add that if you're really really into a certain game the time/effort/cost/frustration of having a physical board may still be worth it. I like mame and emulators in general quite a bit. However, when I come home just seeing my cabinets and pcb's brings a smile to my face. Emulation is an excellent way to play games at the end of the day. However I firmly believe that putting in the work for a few physical boards is worth it. Border Down, Final Fight, and Dungeons and Dragons are going with me to my grave.

Depending on your personal beliefs, you can combine these aspects and get real arcade hardware with a multi-game loader. These have become popular for CPS-2, Neo Geo, and the Taito F3.

does groovymame emulate down to the hardware level where it requires a supergun or can one use a usb arcade stick?

I need a 'supergun for dummies' thread haha. I am in same boat as OP and his bud

1. Buy a HAS from user rgb. Otherwise there are a few alternatives, but you should really just buy a HAS.

2. have a 15khz crt? great you're set. If not, also get an ossc or retrotink 2x

3. ud-usb (undamned serial to usb adapter) + any ps3/ps4 stick

4. burn money on pcb's and enjoy your place at the throne of niche gaming

[neorichieb1971]

Buying cabinets all wonderful and all that. But it comes with a learning curve especially when they go wrong. Who is local that can fix it? I have 2 cabinets that are in need of servicing and I might as well live on a desert island. A guy on here called Fire-Bug used to come round my house from time to time, but i've had a PM sitting in his inbox unread for 3+ years. Maybe he passed away or something or perhaps he made so many people here angry by taking money and never delivering the goods that he ran for the hills. Thankfully two of the cabs are still working, one has a black screen but audio seems to be working fine so the problem is with the monitor only.

Also you'd be getting into PCBs at a time when they aren't exactly cheap. Batrider was shifting for $150 when I came to this forum, now you'd be hard pressed to get one for $600-$700. I recently went to japan but I couldn't fit any loot in the suit cases after buying $1000 of Super famicom titles.

I also have a lack of room at my own house for cabinets, but my mother lets me keep them at her house. So beware they take up a lot of room. I'd also recommend you think about how much time you will want to rotate the monitor. Since I have multiple cabinets I have one yoko and one TATE. If you only have one cabinet your going to be shifting a lot of weight around trying to rotate it unless it has a rotate mechanismn built in, and those cabinets are the most expensive to buy.

If I were buying one today I would buy from a reputable person who has done all the servicing required to get the cabinet in tip top shape as far as the monitor is concerned. Everything else can be done with little to no experience since a lot of it is plug and play. Also make sure the monitor is 15khz or 31khz based on the types of games you want to play. Any game pre 1992 is likely going to be 15khz so a 15khz monitor will be best suited for your needs. Astro city, New astro City, Egret 1,2, Capcom Impress and Konami Windy cabinets are the Japanese cabinets you really need for this. An Atomiswave or Egret 3 is more suited ofr more recent gaming ventures in the PCB business. Of course you could stick to a neo geo cabinet, or a wooden style western version. But these comes with tiny monitors even though the cabinets are much bigger in size.

[lettuce]

As well as Groovymame you might also want to look at RetroArch now also as that now does on the fly resolution and refresh change on a game by game basis

Also its sad to hear that a lot of the arcade users on here have now flown the coup, this was the place i got my first candy cab from all the way back in 2007 time

[NoAffinity]

As for Dimahoo and other CPS-2 games that can "suicide", there is now a process for resurrecting a suicided game (reprogramming the encryption key after replacing the dead battery), albeit with some cost involvement ($100 - $150USD) and a fair learning curve. The good folks behind the avalaunch roms (freely available for download: http://cps2.avalaunch.net/) have decrypted a good majority of CPS2 releases, and continue releasing more decrypted sets as their time permits. Using these roms, the battery can be removed permanently and the possibility of future death is completely eliminated. Simply burn the appropriate roms and replace them - for Dimahoo, it is simply (1) 27C4096, at slots 3. If using the avalaunch roms, do consider donating.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

There are bound to be some old-school arcade jamma pcbs that can be bought for in the $100.00 USD range (check the ebay listings under the subject heading of "arcade jamma pcb" or the alternative subject heading of "arcade logic board"). Back in the early 2000s, it was possible to buy a brand new Raizing/8ing's Armed Police Batrider boxed jamma pcb conversion kit for a mere $150.00 USD. Of course, those days are long gone.

Heck, I do recall of a USA ebay seller trying to sell a brand new Capcom USA region CPS-2 Mars Matrix A + B board set and all accompanying arcade paperworks for a mere $99.99 USD back in 2002-2003 -- quite a steal at that particular price-point back in the day, indeed.

I've seen one shmupper here saying that he scored a Cave Co. Ltd. produced (International Version variant) ESP.Ra.De pcb for a mere $75.00 off of another gaming forum many moons ago. Talk about a cheap-ass Cave pcb deal right there!

Back in 2005, it was possible to buy a barebones Cave Ketsui pcb for a mere $375.00 USD (chump change back in the day) and nowadays, be prepared to spend upwards of $1,100+ USD if you want one bad enough.

Or that it was possible to score a barebones International Version variant Cave Dodonpachi pcb for $275.00+ USD back in 2003. Of course, you'd have to "be at the right place at the right time" to score on such crazy cheap arcade pcb deals during the early 2000s era -- that was a given.

A few years back, there was an ebay seller selling brand new boxed jamma conversion kits of Semicom's Wyvern Wings - Space Opera for a mere $70-$80 USD (a typical jamma conversion kit consists of the following items: the jamma pcb itself, a full-sized marquee (that can be backlit on the American Dynamo upright cabs or even the half-sized Low Boy cabs that sport a 29" CRT monitor setup but yet is only 1/2 as tall of a typical Dynamo cab setup), all the accompanying arcade paperworks such as POP, instruction manual/strip, and lastly, the factory arcade cardboard shipping box with matching serial numbers on the outer box and on the corresponding arcade pcb itself).

If you go back to the mid-1990s arcade game era (specifically around 1994-1998) in the USA, there were folks selling brand new Low Boy arcade cabs that had a 29" 15kHz low-res arcade monitor installed that could be rotated in either tate (vertical) or yoko (horizontal) format. How cool was that? You'd then add the appropiate arcade controls to the front mounted control panel and you're in business to rake in the dough/moolah via quarters, tokens or whatever coinage denomination the arcade operator/owner chooses.

Are there any particular arcade pcbs that you're looking for, Galdelico?

Yes, I was new to the arcade pcb collector's hobby back in the early 2000s myself. Got both my feet wet delving into the arcade pcb hobby by buying myself a new supergun setup and slowly picking up some odd arcade pcbs here & there that'd catch my eye/fancy that I used to play at the local arcades. It was truly an affordable and cheap way to get into the arcade game hobby back in the early 2000s as the usual arcade pcbs could be had for a mere $20-$50 USD tops. (Bonus points if said barebones arcade pcb came with the accompanying arcade signage and paperworks -- most arcade operators/owners would toss the arcade signage/paperworks in the garbage/trash after said pcb had it's fair share of a run/stint in the arcades/game centers/street locations.) "A dime a dozen" as the ol' saying goes (at least this was true with arcade jamma pcbs being sold on eBay during that point in time).

The current arcades or "family entertainment centers" (FEC) as they're called nowadays in the USA, there really isn't much worth playing in terms of the latest dedicated arcade game cabs, ticket prize redemption cabs or even pinball for that matter (not when it's about $6,000 USD & up per brand new pinball machine {it gets expensive really quick!}, I can easily see why most arcades/family game centers are reluctant to carry the newest pinball machines these days as they won't earn their hard-spent money back anyways in going that particular business route or could rent the latest pinball machines from the local arcade distributor and not have to part away thousands & thousands buying such new pinball tables -- but at the end of day, one would still have to return said rented pinball machine(s) back to it's rightful owner after a specified amount of time or when the rental lease is up & the arcade operator/owner has nothing to show for once the new pinball machines are gone for good).

Sure, the days of the traditional arcade, one that had nothing but the usual arcade game cabinet offerings and newest pinball machines (and absolutely no ticket prize redemption game cabinets whatsoever) -- those were quite common across the American arcade scene/landscape back in the 1980s and into the 1990s (until they started to lose their business leases and shutting their doors for good -- the end of an era for the local and independent arcades). Sad but true. It's been said that during the Golden Age of the Arcades, there were 22,000 arcades across the USA back in 1982. So was it just a passing fad or not? Hmmm.....

The real question is: Can today's modern-day arcades ever regain their former glory of like how it was during the Golden Age of Arcades era? There was the arcade art known as "jamming" where you'd place your quarter or token on the arcade game marquee to denote you're next in line to play said game. During the early 1990s as an experiment, I noticed that if I placed a quarter on said arcade game cabinet when someone else was currently playing, he or she would take that coin and continue playing their current game or start a new game entirely. So that told me the subtle art of "jamming" at the local arcades in the early 1980s had lost it's true meaning/ways going forward into the early 1990s with the arcade scene. So be it. But if someone were to steal another's quarter in line -- that'd be asking for trouble to occur really quick...the old arcade gamers of the early 1980s knew not to touch another's quarter when "jamming" -- a insider nod to being polite and respectable towards each other in those days of arcade lore/history.

The best arcade would be one that caters to your own tastes/interests, that is something the local arcade won't be able to cater to your needs or wants anyways. A private arcade is the best one worth patronizing as it'll cater to you and no one else.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Galdelico]

I just wanna drop a HUGE thanks to all of you guys, chiming in and leave a tip, a suggestion and sharing experiences. All the informations come extremely helpfulf and massively appreciated. My friend too, wants to say thanks for taking the time and help.

He's still of the idea of getting a proper cab, eventually, as it would be both a 'nostalgic' purchase and an element of decoration he wants to add to his future game room, on top of the fact that's the way he'd genuinely like to enjoy his arcade games. He's already into MAME on PC, and unfortunately it seems unlikely he'll be able to build a custom cabined (or get it built), so going for an original one is still his preferred way to go, at the moment.

[Shelcoof]

With the recent CMVS and cheap super guns available, its really tempting to want to get into Neo Geo MVS and PCB collecting.

I was super excited when I heard of these affordable cheap alternatives. But when I went shopping for old PCBs assuming it would be fairly affordable... oh boy was I wrong.

We're talking 80$USD plus ship for Samurai Shodown II MVS cart and like 400$ for Wonder Boy Monster Land PCB.

I might have been looking at the wrong place but when I remembered wanting to get into the whole thing Samurai Shodown II was easily had for 20$ and some of the more retro old games were less than 50$.

It was affordable for me back then but no way is it affordable for me right now.

So now my Dreamcast is holding me over in terms of arcade perfect ports. That paired with a good CRT monitor and scanline generator is keeping me happy

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

I just wanna drop a HUGE thanks to all of you guys, chiming in and leave a tip, a suggestion and sharing experiences. All the informations come extremely helpfulf and massively appreciated. My friend too, wants to say thanks for taking the time and help.

He's still of the idea of getting a proper cab, eventually, as it would be both a 'nostalgic' purchase and an element of decoration he wants to add to his future game room, on top of the fact that's the way he'd genuinely like to enjoy his arcade games. He's already into MAME on PC, and unfortunately it seems unlikely he'll be able to build a custom cabined (or get it built), so going for an original one is still his preferred way to go, at the moment.

I played for over a decade on two dinamo cabs (one vertical and one horizontal) with an arcadeVGA plus JPac and Mame, then I moved to GroovyMame on the same cabs. It felt very authentic back them and it feels authentic now (arcade purist please look the other way):). During the golden days, I was very happy with Mame and emulators over all and now that emulators are extremely good and PCBs are so expensive, owning PCBs is a high commodity and if you can afford it go for it.. I am very sure that 10yers from know will will be saying, remember when a CAVE board "insert name here" cost $1200 in 2018 and now you have to sell your first child:) those were the good old days.

[ChuChu Flamingo]

I don't think things will keep going up infinitely but who knows. For how much arcade boards retailed for, what most go for now is cheap in comparison.

With this in mind, I am not saying the prices on some shit in the last few years is justified. I blame it more on hoarding. barcade bs, johnny come lately people and everyone and their mother making superguns. Last point is arcade stuff in general is rarer than most console stuff, even the rare holy grail console shit imo barring a few exceptions.

It also doesn't help we have people actively manipulating the market (cough ST-V on Yahoo japan auctions) etc.

I also think we are kind of in a echo chamber in regards to pricing, and this includes console games. When a game goes for auction and it ends high, everyone talks about it. Just look at the arcadeotaku thread "stuff you can't afford on yaj" where members give us the play by play minute update of arcade/cave bids. Or "what is the next video game spike" on nintendoage. One auction that ends abnormally higher than expected should not set the value of all future. This is usually when people panic bid on the next one cause they want to get it NAO before it spikes. Whenever a board goes for "under" market value at auction all you hear is crickets.

Also $80 for Samurai Shodown II/Samurai spirits II is so overpriced it is comical. It is one of the most common mvs games. $25-30 should get you one on forums, a little more on feebay.

[mvsfan]

the main thing about getting into arcade pcbs now is to not do it unless you have a lot of money.

get yourself a saturn or something and enjoy them that way. the saturn has tons of good arcade ports.

[Galdelico]

Just wanted to update you guys - and thank you all once again... Even if I've been MIA for a while, I've always read and reported your replies to my friend, who is also massively appreciative and thankful - because things moved on to an unexpected direction.

Long story short, my buddy and another collector here in Italy, pretty much agreed on a trade, and he'll soon be getting a SEGA Astro City candy cab: this comes with a fully restored Toshiba Nanao 15Khz screen (apologies, shouid I write anything wrong... I'm translating various messages with basically little to no idea of what I'm talking about ), original coin machine, all three SEGA-branded keys originally included, SEGA billboard, professional stepdown converter to be used with 2 cabs at the same time, and a Neo Geo base inside.

As a collector myself, from what I saw in the photos my friend sent me, that cab is a thing of beauty. The IQ on the monitor seems fantastic, the cabinet itself appears to be in mint conditions, with no scratches, cracks, stains, yellowing... It looks cosmetically immaculate.

The seller initially asked for 1600 euros shipped, but then they agreed on a trade (AES games and cash) and a local pick-up, as they found out they don't live that much far away from each other.

So, that's it. I thought to give you all an update, as the whole quest seems close to an end.