shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:22 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:27 pm 



Joined: 12 May 2013
Posts: 417
Xyga wrote:
Yes mobile-sized displays, but imagine how much time will pass before monitor, then TV-sized panels will be manufactured at reasonable cost?

Took LCD and OLED well over a decade and more about two decades from the first consumer market applications with tiny screens to broadly available and affordable large monitors and TVs.

Micro-LED is merely emerging. Again; TV-sized Micro-LED displays right now exist, but cost about the price of a house or a supercar.

They're sampling them now and looking to ship by the end of the year according to this:
https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20180619PD201.html

Whether or not they'll require lopping off limbs will be interesting to see if they make their date.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:35 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6242
Location: Craig's
There's a little confusion here, this is mini-LED backit LCD, completely different from Micro-LED. ^^
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:56 am 



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 464
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Samsung did launch a first-wave OLED alongside LG. This was back in, what - 2012 or so? The Samsung was straight RGB OLED while the LG, like their current sets, used a color filter.

Samsung did not see a production path whereby costs could be brought down reasonably, which is why they quickly exited the segment. LG took a gamble and bought exclusive rights to the color-filter version from Kodak. This was the only version of the technology where reasonable consumer-level mass production was feasible, concerns about the filter aside.

It's worth noting that whatever a purist may say about the technology, reviews of these original Samsung and LG sets were very comparable, with reception 100% focusing on OLED being a clear step forward in several aspects of picture quality, and not in any degree on one company's version of it having a noticeable difference in look than the other's.

As for MicroLED, it's important to keep in mind how long it takes new technologies to take over markets historically, and how often unanticipated roadblocks come up. Remember SED/NED was supposed to be the successor to plasma long before OLED was even considered (2006-era). It never even came to market and most of you probably won't even recognize the term. Bottom line, MicroLED probably will NOT ascend as easily as its proponents would like, and even if it does - no reason to conclude that makes OLED a "dead end". It is here now, quite worthwhile, and LG is in whole-hog. One or the other could triumph, or they could coexist. Too early to tell.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:11 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 514
Location: Germany
I might add that I deem OLED a "dead end" because I don't think its inherent limitations (that is: life time of the diodes) can ever be overcome.
I didn't mean to say it isn't commercially worthwhile - it obviously is and will be in the foreseeable future!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:53 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6242
Location: Craig's
It's the eventuality of localized burn-in under specific stress that bothers people (specifically gamers of course), not the actual overall lifespan performance, because in that area OLED isn't worse than plasma and ccfl.

Also the better the displays become, the higher our expectactions. Flat panels are efficient consumer OCD-fueling material. ^^
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:09 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 514
Location: Germany
Well, burn in is a symptom of the limited life span of the diodes. :mrgreen:


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:42 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6242
Location: Craig's
This is not how I see it; we know it's shortened under specific strain (in particular static colors) but if there isn't too much of that on a daily basis, the OLED overall will last as long as a plasma or ccfl could before showing serious signs of losing global colors balance, brightness etc.
But of course no one is happy to have to mind the display while they're busy playing, working, whatever is posing a problem.
If manufacturers had balls they'd flat-out rate their displays for specific usages, for which sensitive ones like OLED would be "safe for watching movies, not recommended for sports & games", this way consumer criticism about the weaknesses of the display tech would be less... (and the sales too! heh :mrgreen: )
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:15 pm 



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 464
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Yeah, I was concerned about panel life at the beginning of LG's push for the technology, but we're now 4 years in with no outcry about dying TVs, either among general consumers or high-end enthusiasts. That's good enough to ease my fears.

As for gaming burn-in specifically, have you guys heard actual examples? Again, having heard very little since LG has had a focused product line, I've likened it to the fear associated with plasma - something that got into the general public mindset and doomed the technology despite having no practical validity. I say this as someone who took the risk on a plasma and found out through actual ownership that there was zero issue with responsible usage.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:38 am 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1593
I found another true RGB OLED here:

The Asus ProArt PQ22UC

https://www.asus.com/us/Monitors/PQ22UC/

https://edgeup.asus.com/2018/monitors-m ... screen-go/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comme ... ate_price/


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:55 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11200
Location: Germany
not yet released though.

I'm waiting for it. Will definitely get one to compare it to my OLED PVMs. 4K on Asus' side, but "rolling scan" on the Sony's side. A shame though that the Asus is only 21.6". They could at least have gone for 24 or 27". The Sonys are 25".

I don't think it will be as expensive. Dell basically had to can their OLED monitor because of the pricing. If Asus wants to move ANY numbers, they can't ask $5000.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:01 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6242
Location: Craig's
You have those crazy Sonys with rolling scan ? *drool*
How good is it in practice ?
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:56 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11200
Location: Germany
fantastic. The BVM OLEDs supposedly use a narrower band of pixels that's visible at any moment in time to even further enhance the motion response, but the 25" PVMs are *really* good (and the BVMs are so much more expensive). And in terms of 2nd hand pricing we're getting very close to what people tend to pay for a 24" BVM CRT in great condition.

I have the heavy duty 2541 and the A250 which easily lost a third of the weight compared to the 2541.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:09 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6242
Location: Craig's
And the rolling scan feature, how well does it work against motion blur ?
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:14 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11200
Location: Germany
Remember that it's an OLED, so you don't exactly get motion blur anyway, you just get the lower perceived motion resolution caused by sample & hold handling of the screen. The rolling scan is easier on the eyes compared to the 60Hz BFI you get on LCDs. It's also not causing any double images (at least I haven't noticed any yet, might need to check with 30fps content). Still MOST people will obviously prefer the flicker free mode.

Haven't tried the OLEDs in tate yet though. The Sonys have small feet, so I need to get a tate-able stand first.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:35 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 684
Location: Italy
You got two oled PVMs and not yet done a Fudoh's ode to new display technology? I'm disappoint :!:


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:46 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6242
Location: Craig's
Fudoh wrote:
Remember that it's an OLED, so you don't exactly get motion blur anyway, you just get the lower perceived motion resolution caused by sample & hold handling of the screen.

Rather in this case I would have said 'ghosting', and for sample and hold-induced blur some use the term 'motion blur', but now I use the latter as portmanteau for all the types of blur. I know the risks but...
It's kind of the same situation as with 'scanlines', which I often consciously use wrong way but differently depending who/circumstances. :mrgreen: :oops:

Fudoh wrote:
The rolling scan is easier on the eyes compared to the 60Hz BFI you get on LCDs. It's also not causing any double images (at least I haven't noticed any yet, might need to check with 30fps content).

That was expected but good to hear from a trusted user actually trying games with it.
How's the hit on brightness ? (if any)

Fudoh wrote:
Still MOST people will obviously prefer the flicker free mode.

You know that's another dangerous term to use! :wink:

Fudoh wrote:
Haven't tried the OLEDs in tate yet though. The Sonys have small feet, so I need to get a tate-able stand first.

BTW do any of the larger models (like X300, X550) feature rolling scan as well ? it's never mentioned this way in Sony's product pages so I was wondering.
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:50 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11200
Location: Germany
Quote:
How's the hit on brightness ? (if any)

minimal on the 2541 and non existent on the A250 (it auto compensates the brightness when you switch between the modes).

Quote:
BTW do any of the larger models (like X300, X550) feature rolling scan as well ?

the X300 does, but no idea about the large one. I would suspect the X550 to use a consumer panel instead.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:56 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6242
Location: Craig's
Fudoh wrote:
minimal on the 2541 and non existent on the A250 (it auto compensates the brightness when you switch between the modes).

Well, that's high-class stuff here! aargh, why don't we have this on consumer TVs and monitors yet, sigh *old man shouting at manufacturers*
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:00 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 191
Location: n/america
Thomago wrote:
I might add that I deem OLED a "dead end" because I don't think its inherent limitations (that is: life time of the diodes) can ever be overcome.
I didn't mean to say it isn't commercially worthwhile - it obviously is and will be in the foreseeable future!


so, dead-end wise. i don't think it's completely hopeless. there are many things that can be done to alter the chemistry of the materials whoch could effect things like image retention. in combination with next gen anti burn in measures, you could see oled surpass trad lcd in lifespan. whether or not manufacturers choose to implement those technologies on cel phones is another story


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:45 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1593
Fudoh wrote:
fantastic. The BVM OLEDs supposedly use a narrower band of pixels that's visible at any moment in time to even further enhance the motion response, but the 25" PVMs are *really* good (and the BVMs are so much more expensive).


Oh come on don't be like that, just look at this 30" True-RGB 4K Real OLED beauty:

https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/oled-mo ... vm-x300-v2

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-oled-tv/

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-oled-tv/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESzWY0hW85Y

Only 45k and it's yours!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:58 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6242
Location: Craig's
gobsmacked

To be fair I think the 32" CRT BVM back then was even more expensive
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:58 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 41
Location: Montpellier, FRANCE
For 2541/a and the A250, they accept 240p on hdmi interface if i use ossc in Passthru 240p signal ?
If yes what are the quality show in 240p/ 480i/p ? Some photo are possible ?
They not have Interlace display mode like the bvm so may be not good .


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:36 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11200
Location: Germany
The 2541 has four differemt deinterlacing modes, incl. an interlaced simulation mode. The A250 has lost this (probably in favor of the BVMs). I haven't tried 240p passthrough. Will do someday. What's the point though ? Do you expect great upscaling from a 240p source ? I don't. You really need that integer prescale (3x or 4x) to get great results on FHD or 4K screens.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:00 am 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1593
Fudoh wrote:
The 2541 has four differemt deinterlacing modes, incl. an interlaced simulation mode. The A250 has lost this (probably in favor of the BVMs). I haven't tried 240p passthrough. Will do someday. What's the point though ? Do you expect great upscaling from a 240p source ? I don't. You really need that integer prescale (3x or 4x) to get great results on FHD or 4K screens.


Out of curiosity, how does the the 720p scaling goes?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Have any manufacturers ever made true RGB OLED screens?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:15 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11200
Location: Germany
pretty nice. I have a Pi3 hooked up and it does output 720p (due to performance reasons and for best possible scanlines) and it looks really good on the PVM.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group