Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

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orange808
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Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by orange808 »

This is verified using SNES, NES, and the DVDO vp50pro Judder test pattern. Pleaee keep in mind that I spent a great deal of time testing before I shared this.

Maybe I have a "bad unit", but I seriously doubt it.

As of Saturday, June 23, 2018 on the latest firmware (version 1103), the Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 internal scaling/processing hardware performs frame rate conversion on SNES and NES signals.

Samsung may have thought this was a good idea to increase compatibility with some signals. Unfortunately, the frame rate conversion becomes apparent at 60.05Hz and above.

This is a deal breaker for me and this display may not be suitable for some retrogamers.

Users should also exercise caution with the "Qx" models this year.

For those that aren't familiar: Frame rate conversion introduces judder and screen tearing during scrolling and the appearance of these artifacts is completely unacceptable.
We apologise for the inconvenience
bigbadboaz
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by bigbadboaz »

That really sucks, man. Hope you can get a return and thanks for the heads up.
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Xyga
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by Xyga »

Oh that sucks. Was ok with the previous firmware?
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orange808
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by orange808 »

Xyga wrote:Oh that sucks. Was ok with the previous firmware?
No. Frame lock never worked for me. I tested with stock firmware before I updated it.

I noticed the problem almost immediately. I started out by chaining the NES RGB through the OSSC. 240p looked like it was being handled properly. I tried the shadow and line tests and decided to use the scroll tests to look for combing artifacts--and that's when I saw the judder and tearing. I knew what it was right away. I tried the OSSC line multiple modes next--and nothing changed.

After that, I went directly to the DVDO judder test pattern and started trying to adjust the display to fix the issue. I updated the firmware and that didn't help. Nothing I tried worked.

Finally, I decided to find the range that the television accepts. 59.94Hz-60.04Hz appears to work fine with a proper frame lock. After I went outside that range, the judder and tearing appeared.

I decided to plug in the computer a little while ago. Freesync works. Then, I did a factory reset. It's going back tomorrow.
We apologise for the inconvenience
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Xyga
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by Xyga »

.01 Hz short, the rage.

Tbh that's an ages-old weakness of flat panels, all brands and models, how broad the conversion-free range will be is unpredictable because never thoroughly tested.
(why would reviewers bother though, we're the ones with a weird hobby after all ^^)
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mvsfan
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by mvsfan »

From what i hear, you should probably trade that tv for a TCL 6 series. people cant seem to say enough about it, for gaming. and the price is right too. best buy has the 55" right now for $599

the only thing that should be a step up is OLED and they are expensive.
nmalinoski
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by nmalinoski »

mvsfan wrote:From what i hear, you should probably trade that tv for a TCL 6 series. people cant seem to say enough about it, for gaming. and the price is right too. best buy has the 55" right now for $599
It's not so much that Best Buy has it for $600 "right now", but that's the normal price for the 55-inch 6-Series variant that Best Buy sells.

It's literally the same TV, it just doesn't have a voice remote or whatever, which, honestly, isn't worth the $50 premium you'd end up paying at other retailers. :/
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orange808
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by orange808 »

I'm good. Sent the Samsung right back and got a refund. I have an unhealthy amount of displays already.

The TCL doesn't have any really interesting new features that make me really "want" one. So, I'll pass. Also, if I'm buying a flat panel, I want good motion resolution features. I saw what TCL is doing (flickering colors individually) on rtings and it looks like garbage.

I decided on a HT2050st projector for my new big screen. Now, I just have to find time to set it up.

A 100" backlit screen will be absolutely ridiculous in a good way. The only thing I'm not looking forward to is the persistence blur, but I had a Grand WEGA at one time and I know what to expect.
We apologise for the inconvenience
Vutfyuhf
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by Vutfyuhf »

Hello , I have an judder issue in my NU8000 Tv , Is there an Solution for this problem ? . And i contact Samsung and they said that there is no problem in the Tv.
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by BrianC »

orange808 wrote:This is verified using SNES, NES, and the DVDO vp50pro Judder test pattern. Pleaee keep in mind that I spent a great deal of time testing before I shared this.

Maybe I have a "bad unit", but I seriously doubt it.

As of Saturday, June 23, 2018 on the latest firmware (version 1103), the Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 internal scaling/processing hardware performs frame rate conversion on SNES and NES signals.

Samsung may have thought this was a good idea to increase compatibility with some signals. Unfortunately, the frame rate conversion becomes apparent at 60.05Hz and above.

This is a deal breaker for me and this display may not be suitable for some retrogamers.

Users should also exercise caution with the "Qx" models this year.

For those that aren't familiar: Frame rate conversion introduces judder and screen tearing during scrolling and the appearance of these artifacts is completely unacceptable.
Does this affect the 60Hz only 49" model? Does turning "Game Motion Plus" off fix this? My HDTV is on its last legs and I'm leaning towards getting a TCL 6 series or NU8000.
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orange808
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by orange808 »

BrianC wrote:
orange808 wrote:This is verified using SNES, NES, and the DVDO vp50pro Judder test pattern. Pleaee keep in mind that I spent a great deal of time testing before I shared this.

Maybe I have a "bad unit", but I seriously doubt it.

As of Saturday, June 23, 2018 on the latest firmware (version 1103), the Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 internal scaling/processing hardware performs frame rate conversion on SNES and NES signals.

Samsung may have thought this was a good idea to increase compatibility with some signals. Unfortunately, the frame rate conversion becomes apparent at 60.05Hz and above.

This is a deal breaker for me and this display may not be suitable for some retrogamers.

Users should also exercise caution with the "Qx" models this year.

For those that aren't familiar: Frame rate conversion introduces judder and screen tearing during scrolling and the appearance of these artifacts is completely unacceptable.
Does this affect the 60Hz only 49" model? Does turning "Game Motion Plus" off fix this? My HDTV is on its last legs and I'm leaning towards getting a TCL 6 series or NU8000.
The "game motion plus" interpolation didn't help on my unit. :(

Does the 60Hz 49" have the game motion plus? I was under the impression the panel must refresh at 120Hz to perform the interpolation. Otherwise, you're just combining frames and making things blurry.

---------

On the bright side, the BenQ projector syncs up to virtually everything (even my most troublesome arcade PCB's) and doesn't hassle me with any silliness. So, I'm glad it worked out this way.
We apologise for the inconvenience
Vutfyuhf
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by Vutfyuhf »

Can you respond ? Orange808
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BrianC
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by BrianC »

I'm not sure if the smaller nu8000 has game motion plus (I'm guessing no), but it does have a more limited freesync from what I read at rtings.
delipooke
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by delipooke »

Just bought a 55" Q6FN. Ouch.
Vutfyuhf
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by Vutfyuhf »

orange808 wrote:I'm good. Sent the Samsung right back and got a refund. I have an unhealthy amount of displays already.

The TCL doesn't have any really interesting new features that make me really "want" one. So, I'll pass. Also, if I'm buying a flat panel, I want good motion resolution features. I saw what TCL is doing (flickering colors individually) on rtings and it looks like garbage.

I decided on a HT2050st projector for my new big screen. Now, I just have to find time to set it up.

A 100" backlit screen will be absolutely ridiculous in a good way. The only thing I'm not looking forward to is the persistence blur, but I had a Grand WEGA at one time and I know what to expect.


Hello Orange808 , I have an judder issue in my NU8000 Tv , Is there an Solution for this problem ?
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orange808
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by orange808 »

Yep. Get a different tv.
We apologise for the inconvenience
Vutfyuhf
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by Vutfyuhf »

orange808 wrote:Yep. Get a different tv.

Is there any other solution ?
nmalinoski
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by nmalinoski »

Vutfyuhf wrote:
orange808 wrote:Yep. Get a different tv.

Is there any other solution ?
Harass/bribe Samsung into fixing the problem?

Are there any older/newer firmwares that are unaffected?
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by BrianC »

Not sure if this helps, but someone on the Amazon page suggested turning off the auto game mode and using the manual one instead, as well as turning off the game motion plus.

I'm leaning towards the 55" TCL R615, but if I get the NU8000, I'm more interested in the 49". It sounds like the 120 Hz extras are more of a detriment than a benefit for gaming, aside from Freesync. Some of the comments I read in reviews of the 49" inch confuse me. The reviews claim motion is worse on the 60 Hz models, but only mention stuff like 24p and ignore the fact that some games show judder on the 120 Hz version of the TV. I'm also not a fan of the soap opera effect.
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by BrianC »

I found my answer about 24p. I read it will still show judder in 120 Hz or 60 Hz and the way tvs and players handle it vary (120Hz TV have an advantage, but it's still not as smooth as real 24p). I did read the 49 inch NU8000 still has game motion plus, so the 49 inch TV has features that have no business being on a 60Hz TV (or maybe don't even need to be used on the 120Hz version).
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by Vutfyuhf »

orange808 wrote:I'm good. Sent the Samsung right back and got a refund. I have an unhealthy amount of displays already.

The TCL doesn't have any really interesting new features that make me really "want" one. So, I'll pass. Also, if I'm buying a flat panel, I want good motion resolution features. I saw what TCL is doing (flickering colors individually) on rtings and it looks like garbage.

I decided on a HT2050st projector for my new big screen. Now, I just have to find time to set it up.

A 100" backlit screen will be absolutely ridiculous in a good way. The only thing I'm not looking forward to is the persistence blur, but I had a Grand WEGA at one time and I know what to expect.
Hi orange808 , Have you tried watching TV series on the nu8000 and did the judder issue appeared ?
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orange808
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by orange808 »

Vutfyuhf wrote: Hi orange808 , Have you tried watching TV series on the nu8000 and did the judder issue appeared ?
No. I didn't do much with video. I sent it back.

I did use a judder test pattern and motion was smooth within a narrow range, but that test was conducted feeding 720p and 1080p. I only tested refresh rates close to 60Hz. For progressive input, I didn't see judder. I can't tell you what 1080i or 480i looks like. I can't tell you how it handles film content.

It disappointed me and I sent it back immediately.
We apologise for the inconvenience
Vutfyuhf
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by Vutfyuhf »

orange808 wrote:
Vutfyuhf wrote: Hi orange808 , Have you tried watching TV series on the nu8000 and did the judder issue appeared ?
No. I didn't do much with video. I sent it back.

I did use a judder test pattern and motion was smooth within a narrow range, but that test was conducted feeding 720p and 1080p. I only tested refresh rates close to 60Hz. For progressive input, I didn't see judder. I can't tell you what 1080i or 480i looks like. I can't tell you how it handles film content.

It disappointed me and I sent it back immediately.
Did you tried playing games on it ?
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orange808
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by orange808 »

Vutfyuhf wrote:
orange808 wrote:
Vutfyuhf wrote: Hi orange808 , Have you tried watching TV series on the nu8000 and did the judder issue appeared ?
No. I didn't do much with video. I sent it back.

I did use a judder test pattern and motion was smooth within a narrow range, but that test was conducted feeding 720p and 1080p. I only tested refresh rates close to 60Hz. For progressive input, I didn't see judder. I can't tell you what 1080i or 480i looks like. I can't tell you how it handles film content.

It disappointed me and I sent it back immediately.
Did you tried playing games on it ?
It flunked the test patterns. I sent it back.

Of course, your milage may vary.
We apologise for the inconvenience
Vutfyuhf
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by Vutfyuhf »

Orange808 . I dont understand what are you saying.
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by Vutfyuhf »

Orange808 , I meant i didn't understand your second sentence.
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by Neo-Alec »

I want to contribute to this thread since I always find it when I search about my TV.

I have a Samsung 65NU8000 and it's working in all line modes with the OSSC. I tested the SNES 240p Test Suite scroll test and noticed no serious issues with the Framemeister. The Framemeister Sync Mode is set to Auto. The only thing is the occasional frame drop, but unavoidable with a nonstandard sync rate like this.

I'm overall fairly happy with the TV. My biggest complaint is that the Freesync they added only works in 1080p mode or below; no 4K.
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by nmalinoski »

Vutfyuhf wrote:Orange808 , I meant i didn't understand your second sentence.
"Your mileage may vary" is an idiom in the US that means your experience may be different depending on your environment/conditions.
shroom2k
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Re: Samsung 55" 2018 NU8000 (US model) PSA

Post by shroom2k »

I'm thinking about getting a Samsung or TCL TV in the next few months. Can someone who owns newer models weight in, whether this is still an issue?
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