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 Post subject: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:32 pm 


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Suppose I desired to hook up a game console that outputted component video (in 480p or higher of course) to a VGA PC monitor. What would I have to do to achieve this goal? I've seen Wii "VGA cables" that simply carry the YPbPr signal, but they WORK on a VGA monitor.

Here's what I want to know:
1. If this is possible, how does a YPbPr signal get carried on an RGBHV VGA line? Y for G, Pb for B, and Pr for R? Or do the video lines need to be changed around and/or transformed?

2. Also, since YPbPr is luma sync, does that mean that only specific monitors can support the signal? Or do most monitors support that signal?

3. Finally, If there's something I don't know about this that I need to know, please tell me.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:36 pm 


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You cant. Wii outputs RGBS @480p which is vga compatible.
Some vga sets will need the sync split into HV but most monitors will take csync on the H line.


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:47 pm 


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Syntax wrote:
You cant. Wii outputs RGBS @480p which is vga compatible.
Some vga sets will need the sync split into HV but most monitors will take csync on the H line.

Oh, okay. Concerning the Wii, how could I output RGBs @480p?


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:22 pm 


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Ah I forgot that the component cable grounds 2 pins and allows 480p mode.

I hadn't tried my Wii via RGBs 480p but from memory any cable other than component will have the 480p option greyed out.

Might be best to wait for an internal mod.

Got a link to these cables you speak of working??


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:44 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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I believe the case is that NTSC Wiis cannot output RGBS, and PAL Wiis cannot output S-Video, but both can output YPbPr at 480p. (This bit previously and incorrectly assumed that PAL Wiis cannot output YPbPr; thank you Makinx for the correction.)

In my experience, VGA monitors generally don't support YPbPr. In the rare chance that they do support YPbPr through their VGA port (Not sure if this is even a thing; I'll have to check if this is supported by my Dell U2410, which has a dedicated component video input), which you'll probably have to verify by finding and reading the manual, and you are correct that Y goes to Green, Pb goes to Blue, Pr goes to Red, and the sync lines are left unpopulated.

However, chances are that your VGA monitor does not support YPbPr. If it supports sync-on-green, you'll end up with a mostly green image (because you're putting the majority of the image data, luma, on Green); otherwise, you'll get no image, because there's no sync signal.

If you can wait, and you have an RVL-40 or RVL-60, I think the best solution to your problem is the WiiDual mod board by citrus3000psi, which can get you RGBS output. You can then take that RGBS and run it through an RGB interface to get RGBHV, which you can hook directly into your monitor with a BNC to DE-15 (VGA) adapter (but, of course, 480i content probably won't work without a scaler in between).

If you can't use or wait for a WiiDual, or you don't want to or can't mod your console, you have a couple options. I think the cleanest option would be some sort of YPbPr->RGBS transcoder, like a Kramer FC-4040 or FC-4042, but these are unobtanium nowadays. Don't confuse these with the more common RGBS->YPbPr (SCART to component) converters, as these won't do what you want.

Next best option, in my opinion, would be an OSSC paired with an HDMI to VGA converter (also lets you use 15kHz and interlaced content by line doubling), assuming you have the budget for it.


Last edited by nmalinoski on Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:47 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
I believe the case is that NTSC Wiis cannot output RGBS, and PAL Wiis cannot output YPbPr. Since you were originally asking about using YPbPr from your Wii, I take it you have an NTSC model.

In my experience, VGA monitors generally don't support YPbPr. In the rare chance that they do support YPbPr through their VGA port (Not sure if this is even a thing; I'll have to check if this is supported by my Dell U2410, which has a dedicated component video input), which you'll probably have to verify by finding and reading the manual, and you are correct that Y goes to Green, Pb goes to Blue, Pr goes to Red, and the sync lines are left unpopulated.

However, chances are that your VGA monitor does not support YPbPr. If it supports sync-on-green, you'll end up with a mostly green image (because you're putting the majority of the image data, luma, on Green); otherwise, you'll get no image, because there's no sync signal.

If you can wait, and you have an RVL-40 or RVL-60, I think the best solution to your problem is the WiiDual mod board by citrus3000psi, which can get you RGBS output. You can then take that RGBS and run it through an RGB interface to get RGBHV, which you can hook directly into your monitor with a BNC to DE-15 (VGA) adapter (but, of course, 480i content probably won't work without a scaler in between).

If you can't use or wait for a WiiDual, or you don't want to or can't mod your console, you have a couple options. I think the cleanest option would be some sort of YPbPr->RGBS transcoder, like a Kramer FC-4040 or FC-4042, but these are unobtanium nowadays. Don't confuse these with the more common RGBS->YPbPr (SCART to component) converters, as these won't do what you want.

Next best option, in my opinion, would be an OSSC paired with an HDMI to VGA converter (also lets you use 15kHz and interlaced content by line doubling), assuming you have the budget for it.

Cool! Thanks for the info!


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:50 pm 


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Syntax wrote:
Ah I forgot that the component cable grounds 2 pins and allows 480p mode.

I hadn't tried my Wii via RGBs 480p but from memory any cable other than component will have the 480p option greyed out.

Might be best to wait for an internal mod.

Got a link to these cables you speak of working??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-jltzRYwgU


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:01 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
If you can't use or wait for a WiiDual, or you don't want to or can't mod your console, you have a couple options. I think the cleanest option would be some sort of YPbPr->RGBS transcoder, like a Kramer FC-4040 or FC-4042, but these are unobtanium nowadays. Don't confuse these with the more common RGBS->YPbPr (SCART to component) converters, as these won't do what you want.

Next best option, in my opinion, would be an OSSC paired with an HDMI to VGA converter (also lets you use 15kHz and interlaced content by line doubling), assuming you have the budget for it.


Those Kramers pretty much never come up but sometimes the Audio Authority units do. I've used one with my Wii and was happy enough with the result. Not sure there are any up right now, but I only paid $10 for mine on eBay.

OSSC is a great option that is typically in stock last I knew.

Logan Jones wrote:
Syntax wrote:
Ah I forgot that the component cable grounds 2 pins and allows 480p mode.

I hadn't tried my Wii via RGBs 480p but from memory any cable other than component will have the 480p option greyed out.

Might be best to wait for an internal mod.

Got a link to these cables you speak of working??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-jltzRYwgU


Maytrash

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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:38 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 374
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
If you can't use or wait for a WiiDual, or you don't want to or can't mod your console, you have a couple options. I think the cleanest option would be some sort of YPbPr->RGBS transcoder, like a Kramer FC-4040 or FC-4042, but these are unobtanium nowadays. Don't confuse these with the more common RGBS->YPbPr (SCART to component) converters, as these won't do what you want.

Next best option, in my opinion, would be an OSSC paired with an HDMI to VGA converter (also lets you use 15kHz and interlaced content by line doubling), assuming you have the budget for it.


Those Kramers pretty much never come up but sometimes the Audio Authority units do. I've used one with my Wii and was happy enough with the result. Not sure there are any up right now, but I only paid $10 for mine on eBay.

Thank you; I keep forgetting Audio Authority made those transcoders.


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:26 pm 


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there's also the key digital kd-va5 transcoder - they don't come around that often now but they are supposed to be pretty versatile supporting both directions of transcoding RGBs <-> YPbPr and all resolutions from 240p to 1080p


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:06 am 


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Your simplest solution is to buy a YPbPr>RGB converter. I've used the Audio Authority 9A62 and 9A65, as well as the RTC 2200 (almost impossible to find now). They all work great for 480p, but I remember the 9A62 having issues with HD resoutions (from PS3 and stuff) and the 9A65 can't do 1080p (like if you wanted to play Smash Bros Wii U or something). The RTC 2200 handles everything


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:32 pm 


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Yeah I don't think the 9A62 goes above 480p. An RTC2200 if you can find one is highly desirable.


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:41 pm 



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nmalinoski wrote:
I believe the case is that NTSC Wiis cannot output RGBS, and PAL Wiis cannot output YPbPr. Since you were originally asking about using YPbPr from your Wii, I take it you have an NTSC model.


PAL Wiis can't output S-Video, NTSC Wiis can't output RGB. But they can both output YPbPr at 480p.


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:36 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 374
Makinx wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
I believe the case is that NTSC Wiis cannot output RGBS, and PAL Wiis cannot output YPbPr. Since you were originally asking about using YPbPr from your Wii, I take it you have an NTSC model.


PAL Wiis can't output S-Video, NTSC Wiis can't output RGB. But they can both output YPbPr at 480p.

Thank you for the correction; I'll update my post.


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:41 pm 


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Makinx wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
I believe the case is that NTSC Wiis cannot output RGBS, and PAL Wiis cannot output YPbPr. Since you were originally asking about using YPbPr from your Wii, I take it you have an NTSC model.


PAL Wiis can't output S-Video, NTSC Wiis can't output RGB. But they can both output YPbPr at 480p.

Actually, NTSC Wiis CAN output RGB, they just have a software block preventing it in normal situations.

I watched a video by a guy named Phonedork who demonstrated that you can bypass the software block by loading games via USB Loader GX, going into the video settings, and selecting "force PAL60". Voila! RGB video on NTSC Wii!


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:01 pm 



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Logan Jones wrote:
Makinx wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
I believe the case is that NTSC Wiis cannot output RGBS, and PAL Wiis cannot output YPbPr. Since you were originally asking about using YPbPr from your Wii, I take it you have an NTSC model.


PAL Wiis can't output S-Video, NTSC Wiis can't output RGB. But they can both output YPbPr at 480p.

Actually, NTSC Wiis CAN output RGB, they just have a software block preventing it in normal situations.

I watched a video by a guy named Phonedork who demonstrated that you can bypass the software block by loading games via USB Loader GX, going into the video settings, and selecting "force PAL60". Voila! RGB video on NTSC Wii!

There's just one small issue with that: PAL60 is still going to have a PAL subcarrier; so, if you're going to be using this on an NTSC display, you'll get an image just fine, but the colors are going to be a little off compared to proper NTSC-encoded RGB. Unless there's something fun about the PAL60 mode on NTSC Wiis that makes them output an NTSC subcarrier. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:07 pm 



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nmalinoski wrote:
There's just one small issue with that: PAL60 is still going to have a PAL subcarrier; so, if you're going to be using this on an NTSC display, you'll get an image just fine, but the colors are going to be a little off compared to proper NTSC-encoded RGB. Unless there's something fun about the PAL60 mode on NTSC Wiis that makes them output an NTSC subcarrier. :)


That doesn't really make sense, as RGB is its own color standard, separate from PAL and NTSC. There is no such thing as "NTSC encoded RGB". You would be right if you were talking about composite video. Your picture would be black and white if your tv doesn't support it.


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:14 pm 


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While it is true that PAL colors are different than NTSC, I've seen from the video that the colors do indeed look better. (I don't have a Wii SCART cable, nor have I tried the process myself). If you haven't seen the video, then here it is. Go to timecode 10:50 to see the process and results: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yeKMo6mcAo

What do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:20 pm 



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Makinx wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
There's just one small issue with that: PAL60 is still going to have a PAL subcarrier; so, if you're going to be using this on an NTSC display, you'll get an image just fine, but the colors are going to be a little off compared to proper NTSC-encoded RGB. Unless there's something fun about the PAL60 mode on NTSC Wiis that makes them output an NTSC subcarrier. :)


That doesn't really make sense, as RGB is its own color standard, separate from PAL and NTSC. There is no such thing as "NTSC encoded RGB". You would be right if you were talking about composite video. Your picture would be black and white if your tv doesn't support it.

Ack. My mistake again. So then the subcarrier issue only rears its head when using PAL60 over S-Video and composite, because those formats require the RGB signal to be encoded for transmission over fewer wires, correct?


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:36 pm 



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Logan Jones wrote:
While it is true that PAL colors are different than NTSC, I've seen from the video that the colors do indeed look better. (I don't have a Wii SCART cable, nor have I tried the process myself). If you haven't seen the video, then here it is. Go to timecode 10:50 to see the process and results: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yeKMo6mcAo

What do you think?


That video compares RGB with component video. It has nothing to do with PAL vs NTSC. RGB is simply the superior analog video signal.

nmalinoski wrote:
Ack. My mistake again. So then the subcarrier issue only rears its head when using PAL60 over S-Video and composite, because those formats require the RGB signal to be encoded for transmission over fewer wires, correct?


Without getting technical, composite requires the NTSC or PAL colorburst signal to draw the colors on screen. RGB does not.


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:51 pm 


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Wii has the exact same hardware in all regions, it's all software controlled.


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:54 pm 


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I'm aware that RGB looks more vibrant than component. Heck, Phonedork points this out earlier in the video. It's just that only on PAL Wiis is RGB natively outputted. I hope to try it out on my NTSC Wii someday.


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:02 pm 


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Extrems wrote:
Wii has the exact same hardware in all regions, it's all software controlled.

That's very interesting! Thanks, Extrems. BTW, I got GBI working on my Gamecube. Loving the results!


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:05 pm 


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Is RGB 480p possible on ANY Wii? Maybe through modding or hacking?


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:28 pm 


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It's possible, but the sync signals haven't been found.


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:36 pm 


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There's always hope, I guess. Thanks for the info, guys!


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:21 pm 


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I'm telling you man, through a standard, simple component>VGA converter it looks great. AND you can use it with any other component-capable consoles you have around.


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:34 pm 


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BazookaBen wrote:
I'm telling you man, through a standard, simple component>VGA converter it looks great. AND you can use it with any other component-capable consoles you have around.

Links to one?


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:17 pm 


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Logan Jones wrote:
BazookaBen wrote:
I'm telling you man, through a standard, simple component>VGA converter it looks great. AND you can use it with any other component-capable consoles you have around.

Links to one?


I named three a few posts up.


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 Post subject: Re: Component YPbPr SIGNAL on VGA PC Monitor?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:29 am 


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People have had mixed results but I've used a Garo a lot with a no problems.

https://www.beharbros.com/garo


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