Good CRTs for shmuping on a console

[Steamflogger Boss]

... ergh guys regardless of what it looks like - how the hell is the guy supposed to find a rare pioneer for a decent price in Brazil?

I dream of finding a Kuro for any price locally, lol.

[Dochartaigh]

Crap. Thought I hit send on this message I typed up a couple days ago but I guess not...

There are several models that can do 240p, essentially you must look for the 'Corio2' label (it's not clear yet if all Corio2's support custom res settings). The 1T-C2-400 seems to be the more readily available on ebay. Or the 1T-C2-750 if you need a digital input. For other models, you might want to ask Orange808 or Dochartaigh, but as far as I know there isn't much that sets them apart beside number and type of inputs and front LCD screen or lack thereof.

I can confirm that a couple TVOne C2-400, C2-1250, and C2-2200A's give me great 240p on a variety of PVM, BVM's, and consumer TV's. I know you own the C2-750 so that one is confirmed. I've been downscaling Dreamcast 480p and Xbox 480p so far (forget it I tried my Wii - which I use mostly for GC games in 480p on them or not).

For other models, I forget the members name but he couldn't get a C2-21XX series working, so there's probably truth in Orange808's theory that C2's marketed as "Video Scalers" will do 240p, but the ones marketed as "Downscalers" may not (and I'm not spending $50-100+ to test a 'downscaler' one out). The three 21XX models I was looking at also don't output RGBS which stinks - only component (and some do CV/YC output as well) so that's a deal breaker in my book right there.

There's really no good reason to use anything but the C2-1T-400. Digital input is completely unnecessary. You won't notice any possible ringing artifacts from a good DAC after you downscale to 240p. IMHO, using a DAC to feed the C2 is a complete non-issue.

I definitely agree the C2-400 is a great one. I haven't been able to find a function (well, one I actually use as there's a TON of functions) that my larger and fancier (and more expensive) units can do that the C2-400 can't do as well. It's also very nice and small which most people like (just wished it fit into my rack better .

These are also all cool because the VGA plugs on the back, although they look like they don't give you too many input or output options, nothing could be farther from the truth. When you pair them with a cheap VGA to BNC breakout cable, you can run RGBS, RGsB, YPbPr, or RGBHV (VGA) through it on BOTH the input and output side. Makes integrating it into any setup really convenient (you can go to a PVM or BVM via RGBS, or easily switch to YPbPr output for your component TV on the fly for example).

Invest in a $9 serial to USB cable and you can plug in all of Orange808's numbers he's been kind enough to post in the past (which props to Orange808 again for his list of settings to input!) on your Windows computer so you don't have to worry about doing it from the on-screen menu itself. Anyway, here's the pic I took showing it really is converting 480p to 240p. I took a bunch of other pics as well (and lag tested it - which the results are surprising and even took a crappy video of the 240p test suite's Drop Shadow Test which it passed with flying colors, etc), but that might be better for another topic if you guys want some more info and pics. I'm loving these units if you can't tell.




Oh, and next steps I want to do with these is to test my Xbox 360 (have HDMI, and VGA cables I've never used), and an Xbox One with HDMI and see if these can handle some 720p/1080p to 240p converting (although I'm pretty sure all/most of my games will be letterboxed since they're widescreen and will be played on 4:3 sets - but it'll still be cool to try just to know, plus the C2 units have some good zoom and scaling features I've barely even touched yet which might help with that).

[svensonson]

Crap. Thought I hit send on this message I typed up a couple days ago but I guess not...

There are several models that can do 240p, essentially you must look for the 'Corio2' label (it's not clear yet if all Corio2's support custom res settings). The 1T-C2-400 seems to be the more readily available on ebay. Or the 1T-C2-750 if you need a digital input. For other models, you might want to ask Orange808 or Dochartaigh, but as far as I know there isn't much that sets them apart beside number and type of inputs and front LCD screen or lack thereof.

I can confirm that a couple TVOne C2-400, C2-1250, and C2-2200A's give me great 240p on a variety of PVM, BVM's, and consumer TV's. I know you own the C2-750 so that one is confirmed. I've been downscaling Dreamcast 480p and Xbox 480p so far (forget it I tried my Wii - which I use mostly for GC games in 480p on them or not).

For other models, I forget the members name but he couldn't get a C2-21XX series working, so there's probably truth in Orange808's theory that C2's marketed as "Video Scalers" will do 240p, but the ones marketed as "Downscalers" may not (and I'm not spending $50-100+ to test a 'downscaler' one out). The three 21XX models I was looking at also don't output RGBS which stinks - only component (and some do CV/YC output as well) so that's a deal breaker in my book right there.

There's really no good reason to use anything but the C2-1T-400. Digital input is completely unnecessary. You won't notice any possible ringing artifacts from a good DAC after you downscale to 240p. IMHO, using a DAC to feed the C2 is a complete non-issue.

I definitely agree the C2-400 is a great one. I haven't been able to find a function (well, one I actually use as there's a TON of functions) that my larger and fancier (and more expensive) units can do that the C2-400 can't do as well. It's also very nice and small which most people like (just wished it fit into my rack better .

These are also all cool because the VGA plugs on the back, although they look like they don't give you too many input or output options, nothing could be farther from the truth. When you pair them with a cheap VGA to BNC breakout cable, you can run RGBS, RGsB, YPbPr, or RGBHV (VGA) through it on BOTH the input and output side. Makes integrating it into any setup really convenient (you can go to a PVM or BVM via RGBS, or easily switch to YPbPr output for your component TV on the fly for example).

Invest in a $9 serial to USB cable and you can plug in all of Orange808's numbers he's been kind enough to post in the past (which props to Orange808 again for his list of settings to input!) on your Windows computer so you don't have to worry about doing it from the on-screen menu itself. Anyway, here's the pic I took showing it really is converting 480p to 240p. I took a bunch of other pics as well (and lag tested it - which the results are surprising and even took a crappy video of the 240p test suite's Drop Shadow Test which it passed with flying colors, etc), but that might be better for another topic if you guys want some more info and pics. I'm loving these units if you can't tell.




Oh, and next steps I want to do with these is to test my Xbox 360 (have HDMI, and VGA cables I've never used), and an Xbox One with HDMI and see if these can handle some 720p/1080p to 240p converting (although I'm pretty sure all/most of my games will be letterboxed since they're widescreen and will be played on 4:3 sets - but it'll still be cool to try just to know, plus the C2 units have some good zoom and scaling features I've barely even touched yet which might help with that).

Hi,
I also have a c2-22xx series waiting for me when I get back from my travel in a few weeks. I hardly can wait testing this unit. Beside the 480p downscaling I also would like to test the fpga based de-interlace features of the corio2... just curious how well it does perform!? How are your results in deinterlacing PS2 480i material?

Speaking of the digital in and outputs, have you tried upscaling to a modern display?
It might be a good partner for the FW900 since it easily does 1200p

[Steamflogger Boss]

Dat Extron tower tho.

[Dochartaigh]

I also have a c2-22xx series waiting for me when I get back from my travel in a few weeks. I hardly can wait testing this unit. Beside the 480p downscaling I also would like to test the fpga based de-interlace features of the corio2... just curious how well it does perform!? How are your results in deinterlacing PS2 480i material?

Speaking of the digital in and outputs, have you tried upscaling to a modern display?
It might be a good partner for the FW900 since it easily does 1200p

I forget if it was Orange808 or Xer Xian, but they're both of the mindset that these don't do 480i to 240p well at all (I still use the Extron VSC + RGB quasi-240p trick that Fudoh outlines on his downscaling page to go from 480i to ~240p -- which does cut down on the flicker by a decent amount). Orange808 suggests (mostly for the PS2 since most/many Xbox, Dreamcast, and GameCube games are already in 480p) that you use a modded PS2 which can turn those 480i-only games into 480p through a setting or rom hack or whatnot, then downscale that 480p to 240p which is what these Corio2 units excel at and you'll get a lovely image.

I've personally only tried converting 480i to 240p once, and from what I saw it looked very good actually, but was blown-up to maybe 170% for some reason and WAY off center...been meaning to get back to that test to see if I can scale it correctly and center it, but if the other guys haven't had luck with it (who know more about these units than I do), then I don't think I'll have much luck with it either.

For upscaling, it seems devices like the OSSC, Framemeister, DVDO Edge/VP50, etc. are better options for upscaling so since I have 2 out of 3 of those I haven't tested upscaling on the Corio2 units.

Dat Extron tower tho.

Lol. You're only seeing half of it...

[bigbadboaz]

I dream of finding a Kuro for any price locally, lol.

I thought the Kuros had finally been superceded in all respects..?

[Steamflogger Boss]

I dream of finding a Kuro for any price locally, lol.

I thought the Kuros had finally been superceded in all respects..?

Oh probably if I wanted to spend a ton. Also I am weird.

[bigbadboaz]

Haha - just wondering. No doubt they're still great. But if you come across the right price, I believe arguments can be made for the last Panny plasmas and also OLEDs as better now.

[jepjepjep]

Hey guys, I have a question about downscaling from 480p to 240p with the TVOne C2-400. Does it perform averaging of lines like the extron emotia, or does it simply choose every other line like the MIMO Genius 2? If it's averaging, does it have an option to offset by one line? The emotias start with the second line, so it's merging the wrong ones by default (if you consider the Cave 360 ports for example), so you have to shift the screen by one pixel either in the port settings or with an additional device.

[orange808]

Hey guys, I have a question about downscaling from 480p to 240p with the TVOne C2-400. Does it perform averaging of lines like the extron emotia, or does it simply choose every other line like the MIMO Genius 2? If it's averaging, does it have an option to offset by one line? The emotias start with the second line, so it's merging the wrong ones by default (if you consider the Cave 360 ports for example), so you have to shift the screen by one pixel either in the port settings or with an additional device.

Yes, there's definitely a downscaling algorithm and it isn't just dropping lines.

You'd have to (nicely) ask Fudoh or strygo to test the scaling method further and compare. I don't own a Genius II and I am not shopping for one right now.

Yes, the Corio2 has sampling options to get the offset right. You don't need an RGB unit or an OSSC in the chain to downscale 480p to 240p properly.

I'm not directly familiar with the Emotias. That's another machine I'm not shopping for right now.

Emotias are very old, they have dried out components, they have tons of hours on them, and power supplies are difficult to source. My CD400 just died on me, so I'm feeling sick of working to keep ancient Extron machines going. (Thank goodness I preordered a RetroTink x2.)

Yes, the TVOne works with 480p Xbone, PS2, Wii, Dreamcast, and PC emulators. With some work, you can also use the C2 machines to drive an arcade monitor and you can downscale to 384p as well.

For downscaling doubled video, I like the Corio2 upscaler machines. They also are handy for "mirror flipping" your games. For upscaling, I'd look elsewhere.

[Xer Xian]

I've used my Corio2 to upscale 480p and I think it does a great job. It also has a smoothing option (with selectable intensity) that works pretty well.

The only reason why I would prefer an OSSC+DVDO(+mCable for anti-aliasing) is the lower latency. (480i is another matter entirely)