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 Post subject: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:24 pm 


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I remember a device where you would be able to mod the PSX, and hook a hard drive device into the back of it, and run games from it.
I recall the people making it had a falling out, and this led to it being slowed down.

Any updates on that, or an alternative?
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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:57 pm 


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http://ps-io.com/

It works with SD cards and right now it's still in development, but the boards are fully upgradeable.

There are still issues with several games, and the price is way too high. With 150$ worth of empty CDs I can cover the entire JP, US and EU library.

When it will get down to 80 bucks and all the issues will have been fixed I'll think about it.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:03 pm 



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donluca wrote:
There are still issues with several games, and the price is way too high. With 150$ worth of empty CDs I can cover the entire JP, US and EU library.

While I agree that $150 is pricey, and I think a drop-in ODE like the GDEMU would be a significantly better, cheaper, and easier-to-install solution; it has no moving parts and is going to outlast both the console's optical drive and the game media. You're not going to be able to buy replacement PlayStation optical drives indefinitely, and they are going to get exponentially more expensive over time.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:38 pm 


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Also the math is a bit more subtle.

Assuming you're eventually going to get one. Then you need to cover your current needs for less than the difference in current price vs your buy price.

If you spend even $71 on optical media before buying at your $80 target then you've spent $151 overall.

Plus it seems like almost a duty to pay a higher (profitable for the dev) price just to demonstrate that there's a market for this stuff and hopefully entice other developers to enter the market.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:36 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
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I looked into it a while ago and made a thread here, decided against it in favor of a mod chip + new old stock replacement drive to be sure I won't have issues for a while.

PSIO is expensive, has poor availability and is more difficult to install than a modchip. But that's not the reason why I did not pursue one. In the end, it feels like fundamentally the wrong design. IMHO, It's a very clunky drive replacement solution. Instead of just replacing the drive they decided to go with something that plugs into the parallel port. I could see the merits of that choice if it was plug & play, but it requires internal modification to the console anyway. And then there's the big one, limited compatibility.

They've been working on this thing for many, many years and it still is far from perfect. Other disc drive replacement devices like GDemu, Rhea/Phoebe, SSDS3 etc. plug into the same place as the actual drive. There are always a few bugs and corner cases to work out, but compatibility seems to quickly be near perfect. PSIO's choice of going through the parallel port seems to be so technically challenging that they'll likely be plugging leaks in their drive emulation for years to come.

I don't really care if an ODE costs 50 or 150 bucks or if I have to wait a year to get one, but if it's glitchy & has limited compatibility, it's pointless IMHO. PS1 emulation is excellent, there's no need to bother with actual hardware if ODE bugs make the experience worse than any decent emulator. I have two working PS1 drives and a stack of CD-Rs and plenty of devices with decent emulation, that'll keep working till one day somebody delivers an ODE that actually works 100%.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:55 pm 


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I would get it if it supported psone models but it does not.
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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:56 pm 


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ASDR wrote:
I looked into it a while ago and made a thread here, decided against it in favor of a mod chip + new old stock replacement drive to be sure I won't have issues for a while.



Don't want to hijack the thread, but where did you get the replacement drive? They seem to be hit and miss (mostly miss), and I have two mod chipped ps1's with finicky lasers.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:24 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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ASDR wrote:
But that's not the reason why I did not pursue one. In the end, it feels like fundamentally the wrong design. IMHO, It's a very clunky drive replacement solution. Instead of just replacing the drive they decided to go with something that plugs into the parallel port. I could see the merits of that choice if it was plug & play, but it requires internal modification to the console anyway. And then there's the big one, limited compatibility.

The reason for the chosen design is to maintain compatibility with physical media. With ODEs like the GDEmu, Phoebe/Rhea, and so on, you're removing all the optical bits, and you therefore could not continue to use any of your physical media. It would be like having to rip out the cartridge slot in your N64 in order to install an Everdrive (although way easier to revert). By adding the switch board, the PSIO can control whether the motherboard gets game data from the optical drive or from the PSIO itself.

So that's why PSIO is what it is, but I still don't like it. I agree with you; it is expensive (I did actually pay for one; ow, my wallet); installation is going to be a pain, irreversible (have to cut several traces to install the switch board), and non-portable (I can't just take it out of one console and put it in another--I'd have to perform a whole other destructive installation); and, frankly, I think the vast majority of people looking to buy an ODE would be perfectly fine with completely foregoing compatibility with optical media--I know I would.

These consoles are going to far outlast any of the optical media made for them, and it doesn't make sense to me to complicate the design or installation of a PlayStation when there are already far simpler, non-destructive, and proven styles of ODEs for the Dreamcast and Saturn.

If the PSIO was developed as a drop-in replacement, like the GDEmu, Rhea, and Phoebe, not only would installation be stupidly simple and non-destructive, but it would likely have near-100% (if not 100%) compatibility in terms of both games and consoles--you'd be able to buy one, use it in a launch model, then pull it out and use it in a PSone, just like the new-old-stock replacement drive assemblies available now.


Hoagtech wrote:
I would get it if it supported psone models but it does not.

Technically, it could, and their FAQ page says as much; but you'd have to install 40+ tiny wires yourself, and I don't think they've published any installation instructions.

Star1 wrote:
Don't want to hijack the thread, but where did you get the replacement drive? They seem to be hit and miss (mostly miss), and I have two mod chipped ps1's with finicky lasers.

I picked up a new-old-stock drive from TotalConsole NYC on Amazon for an SCPH-5501, and it works fine. Price has gone up since, though. :/


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:30 pm 



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I'm not really sure where the limited compatibility arguments are coming from. They have a list of all the games reported as incompatible. There are 12 of them. From a quick Google search, I see that there are over 1,800 PS1 games, which would put it at 99.3% compatible. Obviously this doesn't account for games that haven't been reported or potential incompatibilities that are part of the bug tickets for those 12, but I'd say that's pretty good compatibility overall. I rather like the idea of having a thing that plugs in the back but that, unlike the Phoebe/etc, does not replace my optical drive so that I can still use the actual disc games I purchased. That was the main appeal of the Saturator, though that thing may never come out and is supposed to be more plug-and-play than the PSIO. Having said that, the internal mod required for the PSIO seems pretty easy to me, though I can see why it would be nicer if it was not required.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:33 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
I picked up a new-old-stock drive from TotalConsole NYC on Amazon for an SCPH-5501, and it works fine. Price has gone up since, though. :/


The price itself is not so bad if it is as new, but shipping (as too often is the case) is a dealbreaker. Thanks anyway!


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:06 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
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thebigcheese wrote:
I'm not really sure where the limited compatibility arguments are coming from. They have a list of all the games reported as incompatible. There are 12 of them. From a quick Google search, I see that there are over 1,800 PS1 games, which would put it at 99.3% compatible. Obviously this doesn't account for games that haven't been reported or potential incompatibilities that are part of the bug tickets for those 12, but I'd say that's pretty good compatibility overall. I rather like the idea of having a thing that plugs in the back but that, unlike the Phoebe/etc, does not replace my optical drive so that I can still use the actual disc games I purchased. That was the main appeal of the Saturator, though that thing may never come out and is supposed to be more plug-and-play than the PSIO. Having said that, the internal mod required for the PSIO seems pretty easy to me, though I can see why it would be nicer if it was not required.


From what I've read that compatibility list is fairly meaningless as they start by assuming everything works unless proven otherwise, nobody has performed extensive tests on the entire library and often it takes a long time for them to add a bug to their database.

The Satiator seems well on track, thankfully! I think the main appeal is that you don't have to open your console at all and that it would hopefully actually be available, unlike Rhea/Phoebe.

Even knowing the reasons why they chose to develop PSIO the way they did, it's still such a puzzling choice. Just imagine that design meeting:

"It'll cost us 10 years of fixing compatibility issues, double the price, we have to make a case since its external, make the installation non-reversible and difficult enough that we should offer it as a service, limit us to the few oldest PS1 models with build in power supplies, deal with corroded parallel ports etc., but you get to keep using an optical drive and physical discs, the very thing our product tries to replace"

"Sounds good Jim, let's go with that option then"

:shock:

I mean, I wish them the best since they've clearly shown admirable dedication and commitment, but I'm almost certain that before they get PSIO to anything like 99% compatibility somebody else will just do the obvious and develop a straight ODE with 10% the effort for a fraction of the price that works near perfectly after <6 months of bugfixing.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:12 pm 


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$150 is pocket change for being able to run games off SD and I finally didn't have to pay through the butt for shipping :D

Sure it would be nice if they made and ODE, A ps1 goes for around $50 now days and a laser about half of that.
(and itll be a crappy laser, you'll have to salvage parts from your OEM drive and build a Frankenstein drive)

My biggest issue is the fact that its SD card and not USB HDD.
I have around 1000 titles id like to put on an SD Card which is not going to happen.
This is the main reason why I love my USB GDROM compared to my GDEMU.

I semi prepared myself for the fact that the PSIO is not hot swappable and purchased 2 switch boards to install into a Jap and Aus PS1.
In that time I gutted the Aus one, stole its bios and PAL crystal, and made a dual frequency PS1 that should be able to run all games at the correct speed. (Must be motherboard PU-18 or lower)

Im hoping to get my shipment in september, but just yesterday I recieved shipping info for one of the switch boards i purchased?
Pretty odd its not all sent as 1.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:55 pm 


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I have one since many months now - really like it. It just works, you get to keep your optical drive just in case you want to use it, the GUI is nice, it's being still developed... I just can't see my self going back to CD media even though PS-IO is not perfect yet.
What I don't like is the processing times for the orders, much like the PCE Super SD System 3 they are ungodly, demand is too big I guess.

The next PS-IO firmware (or something close to that) is said to have better XA decoding so the quality will rise as well along with the various bug fixes.
Also the 150$ price is actually Australian $ so it's cheaper - I payed ~95-100eur for mine and it was delivered via DHL - in 2016.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 11:02 pm 


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It is probably best that they kept the drive whilst compatibility is growing.
I'm currently installing a modchip in a PS2 because of incompatibilities with playing a few games off HDD.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:21 am 


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got is also for a year or so and just love it, works fine and the internal mod is very easy to do (similar to the average modchip).


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:16 am 


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Meanwhile I'm coming up on the YEAR anniversary of my fully paid pre-order and still don't have one yet...
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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 11:16 am 


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FBX wrote:
Meanwhile I'm coming up on the YEAR anniversary of my fully paid pre-order and still don't have one yet...


ouch! I had to wait ~6months for mine IIRC
let's hope the same thing doesn't happen with the SSS3 device.... :?


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:11 pm 


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FBX wrote:
Meanwhile I'm coming up on the YEAR anniversary of my fully paid pre-order and still don't have one yet...


I feel you. I only paid ~7 months ago. But was waiting a long time just for the chance to preorder.

Reminds me a lot of trying to get my OSSC. Waiting like 5 months just for an estimate of how long the wait would be.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:11 pm 



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keropi wrote:
The next PS-IO firmware (or something close to that) is said to have better XA decoding so the quality will rise as well along with the various bug fixes.


I have mine since second or third batch. I can't remember when I heard they would fix the Symphony of the Night audio.
Still nothing...

Also, game shark is still missing, it's a pain to keep pressing the SD card, making game list file to be able to swap discs for it and since we are getting some widescreen codes for several games this is a must.
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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 11:11 pm 


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Feel this is the wrong design too. You can always get a second PS1 for your physical games.
Also no way I'm paying that price if I have to wait 6~12 months if not longer.
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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 4:44 am 


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nmalinoski wrote:
I think the vast majority of people looking to buy an ODE would be perfectly fine with completely foregoing compatibility with optical media--I know I would.


I would, too, especially with the PlayStation. PSX systems are a dime a dozen and probably will be for a good majority of our lifetime. I have no problem sacrificing the drive in that case. Heck, I think I even own three of these things and forgot I did until I thought about it just now, heh.
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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:36 am 


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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it says AUD $150, which means about $113 in USD. And free shipping to US.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:45 am 



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I think the decision to make this an expansion module happened early on, before realizing that the console would have to be modified.
It's a special quirk of the hardware, how ADPCM audio goes a different route in the PSX.

I just wished people could actually buy these, or build them themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:25 am 



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rama wrote:
I think the decision to make this an expansion module happened early on, before realizing that the console would have to be modified.


Was this a kickstarter or similar crowdfunded project? I've heard many stories over the years where developers felt very locked into what they initially promised. This can be a real bummer. For instance I always remember the story of how Diablo was initially a turn based game and they changed to realtime fairly deep into development. If they had crowdfunded the game they might have felt obligated to deliver a turn based game to not upset the backers that clearly put down money for a title in that genre.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:44 pm 


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donluca wrote:
With 150$ worth of empty CDs I can cover the entire JP, US and EU library.


It should be mentioned that the CD-R sold to the general consumer (especially the ones sold in the West) are of extremely low quality, these CD-Rs have an extremely short lifespans and endurance and will deteroriate very fast even if you just burn your stuff on them and store them.

The CDs used by Sony for the PS1 in comparison were of extremely high quality, as they were manufactured by Taiyo Yuden themsleves (so Made in Japan):

Image

CD-R's makers especially for recordable optical media sold in the West don't actually manufacture CD-Rs themselves, but instead sells CD-Rs manufactured by an outsourced third party and just plaster their names on it and these are junk. For example if you buy Mitsubishi CD-Rs and it says "Made in India" or "Made in Ireland", you can be sure these CD-Rs were not manufactured by Mitsubishi themselves but are instead low grade CD-Rs manufactured by third parties such as Moser Baer and these CD-Rs are low quality.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 5:02 am 


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Yeah CD-R are shit, 10~15 lifespan at best, I have so many corroded, even the supposed quality brands, it's pathetic.
Better keep stuff on hard drives and burn only the games you play at the moment.
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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:37 pm 


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@lawfer say that to my FF7 original discs which 5 years ago just are not readable anymore. Sigh.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:48 pm 



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And that lack of durability regarding both optical media and their drives are precisely why we need ODEs.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 12:31 am 


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donluca wrote:
@lawfer say that to my FF7 original discs which 5 years ago just are not readable anymore. Sigh.


I said they were of high quality (in comparison to CD-Rs), I never claimed that they were undamageable or infallible.

We are talking about CD-Rs that will just stop working even if they are in pristine condition, you burn your stuff on a brand new CD-R and test it, it works, so you put it back in it's case, store it and don't touch it for a while, 5 years later you want to use it only to find out that it just doesn't work anymore.

While Official PS1 CDs that literally gone through hell (frankly with the exception of the japanese, people treat their physical games like crap) still works after more than 20 years.

Think of it like this, if official PS1 CDs were made with the same quality as CD-Rs, there wouldn't be a second hand market for PS1 games by now.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the status of that PSX IO thing?
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 12:10 pm 


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My FF7 discs have been kept *religiously* inside their case or into my PS1 and are PRISTINE. Not a single scratch, never left in direct sunlight or in places where it gets hot or whatever.

PS1 disc fail just like any other optical media. Some CD-R are indeed worse, but if you buy good quality (Taiyo Yuden, Verbatim, etc...) they'll last as long as retail discs.


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