Is there a mod to eliminate the original SNES smearing/blur?

[thebigcheese]

I bought a 1-chip SNES Jr a while back (and modded it) after getting frustrated with the smeared look of the original systems, but I see now that the OSSC has a reverse LPF option that effectively eliminates the smearing in many cases. However, I also read that it doesn't really help in other cases because it seems the degree of smearing is different from one system to the next. This makes me wonder if there is some component responsible for the smearing that could simply be replaced to eliminate the smearing. I don't really have enough technical know-how to investigate myself, but if it varies from one console to the next, it stands to reason that it isn't a programming issue but rather a cheap or failing component at fault. Has anyone looked into this? I haven't really found anything online about it and it seems like there ought to be a solution to it.

[maxtherabbit]

people have looked into it, the smear comes directly out of the PPU - no output circuit mods can affect it

AFAIK, there's no known solution

[bigbadboaz]

What smearing? Not something I've heard about and I can't say I've ever had a major issue like that with SNES video quality.

[Ikaruga11]

1CHIP SNESes shouldn't have any smearing like earlier revisions.

[thebigcheese]

Right, I was asking about non-1chips.

[FBX]

Currently the best solution is to get a Super Nt. It has the behavior of a 2-chip with digital clarity. Analogue is working on a cable for hooking it up to RGB CRTs as well.

What smearing? Not something I've heard about and I can't say I've ever had a major issue like that with SNES video quality.

Here's the smearing in the APU for example, both before and after the video clock signal is removed from the output of the PPU2:




And here's a 1CHIP for comparison:

[bigbadboaz]

I see. I guess that's not something I would have picked up on running S-Video on a CRT.

[mvsfan]

Oh, youll notice it on a Crt. on a Crt the video just looks blurry.
the 1-chip is so much clearer.

[bobrocks95]

As someone who doesn't have a 1-Chip, I don't think I would have noticed a problem on a consumer CRT using RGB without having read about it online. I don't think it looks that bad on its own, just in comparison to a 1-Chip. If you ever played SNES via composite, the picture's already leagues sharper than what you'd been seeing before.

Or maybe subconsciously I'm just mad I don't have a 1-Chip?

[PixelDharma]

As someone who doesn't have a 1-Chip, I don't think I would have noticed a problem on a consumer CRT using RGB without having read about it online. I don't think it looks that bad on its own, just in comparison to a 1-Chip. If you ever played SNES via composite, the picture's already leagues sharper than what you'd been seeing before.

Or maybe subconsciously I'm just mad I don't have a 1-Chip?

It also looks bad in comparison to any other RGB console out there... any Mega Drive/Genesis will deliver very sharp pixels much like a 1chip SNES. It’s basically how it “should” look.

I remember being a non-1chip SNES owner and telling everyone it was fine too.

[cyborc]

As someone who doesn't have a 1-Chip, I don't think I would have noticed a problem on a consumer CRT using RGB without having read about it online. I don't think it looks that bad on its own, just in comparison to a 1-Chip. If you ever played SNES via composite, the picture's already leagues sharper than what you'd been seeing before.

Or maybe subconsciously I'm just mad I don't have a 1-Chip?

It also looks bad in comparison to any other RGB console out there... any Mega Drive/Genesis will deliver very sharp pixels much like a 1chip SNES. It’s basically how it “should” look.

I remember being a non-1chip SNES owner and telling everyone it was fine too.

about 10 years ago when I first discovered RGB via one of those csy-2100 clones I wondered why my childhood SNES looked so blurry in RGB compared to my Genesis.

[maxtherabbit]

My SHVC-CPU-01 doesn't look as bad as those screens. It's definitely not as sharp as a 1 chip but still not quite that bad

[bobrocks95]

Ignorance is bliss... I don't notice much of a problem and I'm not going to go looking for it. If I were using an OSSC on an LCD I think it would be a different story, but again a consumer CRT is going to hide all sorts of flaws.

[thebigcheese]

Ignorance is bliss... I don't notice much of a problem and I'm not going to go looking for it. If I were using an OSSC on an LCD I think it would be a different story, but again a consumer CRT is going to hide all sorts of flaws.

No kidding. After probably 20 years of owning an original SNES and not even thinking about it, a couple years back I started to really get into the video quality thing and that's when it started driving me crazy. The 1-chip is nearly a perfect fix, but there's a couple little glitches with it that the original models don't have. As FBX said, the Super NT set out to be the best of both worlds, but even then it has a few minor issues with a few games. There's really no perfect solution for SNES right now, so we just have to decide which is the best compromise.

[orange808]

FWIW, if you have a nice gaming PC, you can get great SNES emulation with that as well.

----

Also,

Here's the thread with information on fixing SNES issues on real hardware:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=61072&start=120&hilit=snes

[FoxMontage]

I for one am quite fond of the smearing. Having grown up with it, and still using my original 2-chip PAL system, in-game text on A Link to the Past just looks wrong without it. I always used to wonder how they made the text have that shimmery quality, with so many shades of blue blending into white. Seeing that text rendered with perfect sharpness is utter heresy in my books .

[FBX]

I for one am quite fond of the smearing. Having grown up with it, and still using my original 2-chip PAL system, in-game text on A Link to the Past just looks wrong without it. I always used to wonder how they made the text have that shimmery quality, with so many shades of blue blending into white. Seeing that text rendered with perfect sharpness is utter heresy in my books .

I played on a Trinitron with S-video cables, and you honestly couldn't see the smearing. As such, I didn't like seeing it on RGB with modern displays. That's why I switched to 1CHIP consoles.

[unmaker]

There have been efforts into removing the smoothing filter of 2-chip consoles, the first being (that I know of) from this Japanese person:

http://vaot.mydns.jp/fc/sfc_sharp2.htm

As you can see the mod looks quite messy and complicated. It's a noticeable improvement in terms of sharpness but not quite at the level of a 1CHIP. The one and only Borti even turned it into a PCB which is much cleaner:



He never publicly shared this design with his reasons being:

"I designed this PCB but never published it. I got weird side effects like massive jailbars on certain situations and a noisy composite video image.
However, if someone wants to try it out, please let me know. I can send out my test PCB or also the PCB file for OSHPark."

Here's another mod into reversing the smoothing filter on a SNS-CPU-RGB-01 (the first one being a SHVC-CPU-01):

http://vaot.mydns.jp/fc/sfc_sharp.htm

[maxtherabbit]

interesting

[BONKERS]

I definitely notice it on my 2-chip SNES over component on a CRT. However it's not really all that bad and still looks reasonably sharp. Not as sharp as a Mega Drive, but unless you know what to look for it's not easy to pick out.

I don't mind it. I would rather have better geometry on the display and be able to properly focus the gun so the sharpness of the TV itself doesn't change at different parts of the tube. (IE: top edges vs closer to center.)

Definitely wouldn't mind a mod however to improve it. I have sentimental feelings towards the 2 chip, mostly just because this is my childhood system.