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 Post subject: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:10 pm 


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Joined: 29 Jan 2005
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Location: UK
Hi

Unfortunately my DVDO HD+ has finally packed up.

I've been running it at 720p with my RGB scart consoles and via component with my Wii ,can anyone recommend me a decent replacement that I can pick up second hand?

Thanks
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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:00 pm 


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Location: Italy
It's very hard to not recommend the OSSC today.

Unless you really, really need composite/s-video support and proper deinterlacing. In which case an OSSC+DVDO Edge combo can be had for the same price as the Framemeister alone and perform better for the most part.


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:13 pm 


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Location: UK
Hi

No I don't need composite or s video as I only use RGB & Component.

Ok ill take a look into that , do you know if there are any other good obsolete scalers that can be had for cheaper than the OSSC . I was happy with the picture the HD+ gave me so something similar in picture quality.
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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:27 pm 


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Trevor spencer wrote:
Hi

No I don't need composite or s video as I only use RGB & Component.

Ok ill take a look into that , do you know if there are any other good obsolete scalers that can be had for cheaper than the OSSC . I was happy with the picture the HD+ gave me so something similar in picture quality.


I paid about $55 usd for my iScan HD+, so you might just wait and get another one.

The iScan HD+ also does a pretty good job paired with the OSSC. I remember being pleasantly surprised with Linex3 upscaled to 1080p--using the HD+.
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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:31 pm 


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Joined: 29 Jan 2005
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Location: UK
Ok your probably right I'll hold out for another HD+ & grab an OSSC when I can afford it.
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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:47 am 



Joined: 12 Mar 2018
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I have a Framemeister that died after just one year so I wouldn't recommend that. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:46 pm 


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Joined: 05 Apr 2017
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Location: TX
There really is nothing to recommend over the OSSC. It is the fastest, and it produces the best picture. It can even do emulator-style shaders, and 720p mode is super compatible. It is a product of the UK, so you can get one fast.

Really I do not know why you would get the DVDO first even if you do intend to get both, unless you need Composite or Svideo.

If it is a money issue, you should do yourself a favor and check out the custom firmware that has been developed for the cheapo Chinese Gonbes upscaler boards. Rama has made some major improvements to input lag and 240p handling. It is really good now, and the cheapest option. It has only a single frame of lag last I checked in December. Impressive. If you are afraid of the DIY aspect, don’t be. Rama has written a dummy-proof guide on how to get it up and running. I had never used a microcontroller and I was able to get it going easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:01 pm 


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Location: UK
Ok so the OSSC will handle 720p ok ? I was reading it's not compatible with some TV's also I see alot of people saying you need both to get the best from the OSSC ? Is this not the case.

It would be nice just to have one unit
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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:30 pm 


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Yes, sir. If you only do Component and RGB, you only need OSSC. It will do 480p, 720p, and 1080/1200p. 480p and 720p modes do not suffer from the same compatibility issues as the higher resolution modes. You will get a better image with just the OSSC than you would with the combo. The DVDOs make good pictures, but the OSSC makes a much better one. When you chain upscalers, you get the downsides of both. No DVDO is completely lagless, but the OSSC is.

For the record, if I was you, I would probably look into a tube TV first. I have an OSSC and a nice large monitor and I still usually use my British market Philips tube tv (CRT) if I don’t have people over. Get a Bang Olafson or a Sony, Philips, or Mitsubishi. You may be able to get it free. Just make sure that whatever it is it supports RGB. SCART does not guarantee RGB.


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:41 pm 


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Location: UK
Ok nice. I'll just get the OSSC then .

I have a few nice CRT's but they are packed up and getting them out and setting them up is agro lol.

Also I can lay in bed and play on my 42" which is very nice.
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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:47 pm 


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Location: Craig's
OSSC + ViewSonic VX3211-MH (best known fully-compatible monitor for the ossc)

nothing else period

(If 32" is large-enough for you and interlaced/480i games - PS2 mainly - don't weigh much if at all in your desired setup)

SCARTicus wrote:
It is a product of the UK

Vittu Saatana Perkele!! :evil:
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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:52 pm 


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I know he’s Finnish but my OSSC shipped from England.


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:28 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 254
Video Game Perfection is the primary source for the OSSC and they are in Sheffield (UK). That's where I just ordered mine from.

I have had a Framemeister for several years and there are many things it does well, but I stopped using it after I bought a PVM because it was just so hard to go back to the 5 frames of input lag I get from the combination of my TV and the Framemeister. To its credit, the Framemeister only adds about 1 frame of lag, but adding that on top of the 4 my TV adds is just not great. Aside from that, it has top-of-the-line deinterlacing which is really handy if you tend to game on PS2 a lot. It also offers really flexible and highly compatible scaling options.

On the flip side, it does actual scaling, not just line doubling/tripling, meaning you pretty much have to tweak it if you want pixel perfect scaling. Which means a separate profile for every console - in some cases, maybe even more if a console supports 480i/480p/240p and 4:3/16:9. It gets pretty old pretty fast. If you don't care so much about pixel perfect scaling, then there isn't much tweaking to do. But you still have the 1 frame of lag and really slow resolution switches for games that switch between 240p and 480i. On top of that, there aren't really that many reasons to need high quality deinterlacing. PS2 is the main offender as it is largely a 480i console, but nearly every good GameCube game runs in 480p, practically every Dreamcast game does, and at least a handful of the good PS2 games do.

This is where the OSSC comes in (and why I ordered one). Virtually lag free, pretty much hassle free, and much better colors (at least technically - how much you actually notice it is debatable). It's main drawbacks are that it only does line doubling/tripling/quadrupling/quintupling, so you are not likely to get pixel-perfect scaling (unless your TV happens to run at the same resolution as the output of the OSSC), your TV is (probably) going to do it's own scaling of the image, and the deinterlacing is not great. However, it does now offer support for saving and loading profiles, so if you really want to go wild with trying to get closer to pixel-perfect scaling, you have options. Most TVs have better deinterlacing built in, so it's clear why that wasn't a focus for Marqs (though this may add some lag). And some of its output modes are somewhat off-spec and may not work with all TVs. My understanding is that this has gotten better as the OSSC has matured, but just something to keep in mind.

While I don't have my OSSC just yet, I still feel pretty confident recommending it over the Framemeister. For one, it is a good $100 cheaper (if not more), but for another, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better line doubler and it is the only line tripler/quadrupler/quintupler out there, plus it's basically lag free. Basically, if you are not super concerned about everything being pixel perfect all the time and just want to play games, I'd say go with the OSSC. It'll only get better as time goes on.


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:00 pm 


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SCARTicus wrote:
I know he’s Finnish but my OSSC shipped from England.

thebigcheese wrote:
Video Game Perfection is the primary source for the OSSC and they are in Sheffield (UK). That's where I just ordered mine from.

I know, we all know. I was teasing/joking because of the 'a product of the uk'. Relax dudes. :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:22 am 


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Joined: 19 Jan 2016
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Location: Sweden
FBX summed up the ups/downs of OSSC pretty well in the OSSC thread recently:
Quote:
OSSC:

1. Can be integer scaled from 1 to 5x for 240p sources.

2. Does not allow for zooming beyond 5x.

3. Has zero lag.

4. Had almost zero noise (requires lossless 4:4:4 capture to even spot any noise at all).

5. Optimal timing allows for 'digital-perfect' picture quality, but difficult to dial in without using a chart or proper test patterns.

6. Control over LPF (critical for some Saturn consoles that need external LPF).

7. Perfect control over RGB color bias (gain settings).

8. Inferior features for deinterlacing.

9. Much easier to use masking system.

10. 256 square pixel mode has off-center masking that pinches one side of the active 256 window. Can be corrected by increasing the active area to 257 and re-centering, but this causes the output to be an abnormal resolution that can sometimes randomly change on game boot-up.

11. Inferior profile system compared to the Framemeister.

12. Superior menu system using a native back-lit LCD screen.

13. Does not have HDMI input for scaling low res HDMI sources.

14. Component input for the RCA jacks are incorrectly arranged (has them in Blue-Green-Red order when it should be Green-Blue-Red).

15. Signal output is often incompatible with a lot of displays beyond 480p output.


Regarding compatibility, we could make an educated guess if you tell us your TV model. Or check out the compatibility thread in my sig.
720p output (Lx3) is not at all guaranteed. The linedoubled output is however nearly universally accepted (caveats are NES/SNES (sync jitter) and NeoGeo).
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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:57 pm 


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Joined: 29 Jan 2005
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Location: UK
HI

I believe my screen is a Panasonic TX-P42X10B from memory
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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:12 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 140
@Trevor spencer - check this thread out: https://www.videogameperfection.com/for ... atibility/

TV's made in the last 3-4 years tend to have better compatibility with Line 3X-5X vs. older TVs.

Some of the Panasonic TX sets listed in that thread have Line 3X compatibility so you might be good.


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:38 pm 


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Panasonics are a bit of a mess with compatibility tbh.
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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:32 am 


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Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 67
Location: New York
Xer Xian wrote:
an OSSC+DVDO Edge combo can be had for the same price as the Framemeister alone and perform better for the most part.


No idea whether it’s feasible today in terms of price/availability, but I can personally attest to the combo of OSSC + XPC-4. The XPC-4 adds only one frame of lag, a full 1080p frame buffer, DVI input to match the OSSC’s DVI output, and pixel perfect framing for 4x 240p and 2x 480p (especially when adding scanlines to the line doubled 480p). Frame rate locked 60Hz buffered output is a known drawback with XPC-4 but it doesn’t bother me at all (I’ve always cared more about pixel perfect scaling than frame rate consistency)


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend me a video scaler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:58 am 


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Trevor spencer wrote:
I believe my screen is a Panasonic TX-P42X10B from memory

1024x768 resolution plasma from 2009...

On that resolution typically even lineX2 typically shows uneven scaling artifacts, and I don't know if it will be able do display lineX3 from the OSSC properly.

I'll repeat this over and over to people but before thinking of buying an OSSC, consider what display you have.

The OSSC just ins't a device that's made to adapt to any display around, it'll get along well with one or won't period and there'll be nothing you can do besides wasting money on an additional expensive scaler, again money better put in a new display known to work well with the ossc.

For those who still want to go the DVDO route instead of using a fitting display I don't recommend the EDGE since it has lag issues, and I don't see the point of owning an OSSC if the lag performance isn't there. The VP50 Pro is the best to preserve the most of what the OSSC is meant to be, but I guess with a lower-than-fullHD display a VP50 or VP30 or new HD+ should do (read dedicated threads to confirm)
All those are still quite expensive though.

EDIT: just wondering though someone can surely confirm if the DVDOs can completely fix the wrong scaling for x2 and x3 over a 1024x768 display?
That would be the only justification to keep the display and buy both the ossc + dvdo for it, even though that's a completely unreasonable spending compared to buying ossc + new display.
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