Is the N64 RGB mod worth it?

[Revolver Ocelot]

I recently upgraded my set up and got a Framemeister. I really like it so far, and I am still playing with the Settings.

Among my Retro consoles there is the N64 and like my other consoles I want to get out the best Picture.

So i found some Options online how to upgrade the Image Quality of the N64. The RGB Mod or the Ultra HDMI mod.

Although the Ultra HDMi mod also has some interstings aspects I am more eager go go with the RGB Mod because this Mod i can be used with the Framemeister.

the only Problem is, that the Mod would not be cheap as I am not able to do it myself.

On the top of that I found some Reports online that the RGB out the N64 is not as good as the RGB ouput of other consoles.

So I really wonder if the mod is really worth the Money or would it be better to just use the N64 with S-Video on the Framemeister.

Would be pleased to hear some opinions.

thanks for the help in advance.

[ASDR]

I have an RGB modded N64. I didn't do the mod myself, never even inspected it, was a while ago. Just saying that to leave open the possibility that maybe I just got a badly done mod. Now I'd just do it myself and be sure.

I don't think the N64 benefits terribly much from a higher quality output and a good scaler. When looking at the Saturn, SNES, MD, Neo Geo, PC Engine etc. there's a huge difference between my TV's A/D conversion and scaling and the OSSC in 4X. With the N64, both look kind of the same. Not sure if S-Video would look that much worse. I don't know, it's kinda blurry / muddy / dithery either way. The Saturn is so crisp and has no dithering or any kind of AA / post-process blur and it's just striking in RGB with the OSSC, but I just feel the N64 RGB looks muddy no matter what.

From the videos I've seen online, it seems the N64's look can be improved a lot. There's dithering and some form of edge-AA that can be disabled with a GameShark code (or IPS patch on the EverDrive64) and there's the other kind of horizontal blur on the output. Probably careful tweaking of both on a per-game basis yields best results. So maybe the cost of an Ultra HDMI is justified if you really love the N64. Keep in mind the Framemeister has HDMI inputs, so you can use its deinterlacing for the few 480i games or use it to zoom / crop or whatever.

Voultar's N64 RGB mod looks really simple. Solder 4 wires to vias / his board, solder board to the multi-out pins, done. You could probably learn how to solder well enough to pull that off in no time.

[Kez]

RGB mods definitely improve the output of the N64 by a significant amount, especially with deblur. But it is still easy to be disappointed with the results. The fact of the matter is the N64 is extremely obviously a product of its time, and many of its games simply do not look that great no matter what you do. No matter how sharp and clear you make the image, the N64 render resolution is very low thus a lot of games just end up looking pixellated and lack detail. This is compounded by the fact that a lot of the footage we see of the games online is actually from emulators, whether Wii Virtual Console or other platforms, these emulators run at a higher internal resolution and thus produce a better looking image.

If you're not sure whether it's for you, try watching a bunch of YouTube videos. Make sure you're watching them full-screen and make sure the footage is captured from from a real N64.

[Revolver Ocelot]

ASDR I am indeed a rather big fan of the N64 and the Ultra HDMI is quite tempting. I watched a lot of videos on youtube and the N64 seems to give the best result. Another plus for the HDMI would be that i can maybe use it for all N64 Games. Some games like RE 2 are unplayable due to the sync issues when using the N64 on the framemeister. Maybe the Ultra HDMI can bypass that problem.

I think I will just go with composite or buy a nice SV Video cable for the time being and safe some money for the Ultra HDMi mod in the near Future.

The FM is working really well with my other consoles so I am not that upset that I maybe have to get other equipment for the N64 in the future.

[FinalBaton]

I will tell you this : rgb + deblur is nice, BUT : keep in mind that the N64 colors stay kinda washed out a bit even with the deblur. To me (and this is my opinion only), staying with s-video is the more sensible option. Modding the system is not worth it to me. My buddy has a stock N64 in his mancave and we have it plugged in a little crt via s-video and we're perfectly happy with this.

Make sure you get a good s-video cable though(most are poorly shielded and some even pass composite video through the cable)

[CobraKing]

ASDR I am indeed a rather big fan of the N64 and the Ultra HDMI is quite tempting. I watched a lot of videos on youtube and the N64 seems to give the best result. Another plus for the HDMI would be that i can maybe use it for all N64 Games. Some games like RE 2 are unplayable due to the sync issues when using the N64 on the framemeister. Maybe the Ultra HDMI can bypass that problem.

I think I will just go with composite or buy a nice SV Video cable for the time being and safe some money for the Ultra HDMi mod in the near Future.

Start off with playing your N64 games with S-Video first. A lot of those games have simply not aged well at all and RGB or HDMI video will not resolve that.

I was a bit lucky to have a well respected modder local to my city so I have VileTim's RGB board with Borti's firmware.

[Revolver Ocelot]

ASDR I am indeed a rather big fan of the N64 and the Ultra HDMI is quite tempting. I watched a lot of videos on youtube and the N64 seems to give the best result. Another plus for the HDMI would be that i can maybe use it for all N64 Games. Some games like RE 2 are unplayable due to the sync issues when using the N64 on the framemeister. Maybe the Ultra HDMI can bypass that problem.

I think I will just go with composite or buy a nice SV Video cable for the time being and safe some money for the Ultra HDMi mod in the near Future.

Start off with playing your N64 games with S-Video first. A lot of those games have simply not aged well at all and RGB or HDMI video will not resolve that.

I was a bit lucky to have a well respected modder local to my city so I have VileTim's RGB board with Borti's firmware.

Sounds like a good advice too me. I have already read similar things that the n64 did not age well and there is not much that can be done against that.

Using the S-Video port of the FM and a nice cable is a good starting point.

The only thing that bothers me a bit is that the image of some S video cables is supposed to be too brigh at Pal N64.

Luckily I found a S-Video cable for pal consoles according to console goods uk. That's the cable I will try.

[CobraKing]

Sounds like a good advice too me. I have already read similar things that the n64 did not age well and there is not much that can be done against that.

Using the S-Video port of the FM and a nice cable is a good starting point.

The only thing that bothers me a bit is that the image of some S video cables is supposed to be too brigh at Pal N64.

Luckily I found a S-Video cable for pal consoles according to console goods uk. That's the cable I will try.

If you're using a Framemeister try to see if you can find a NTSC N64. You should be able to get one for quite cheap.

On the subject of the games, I should mention that the games I played extensively in the late 90s played and felt exactly as I remembered them.

Since N64 games aren't as expensive as SNES I tried playing some games that I was not able to (due to being a high school student with no income) and I just couldn't get into them despite the critical acclaim that they received. Your experience might be different though.

[tacoguy64]

Since you have a FM i'd say it is worth doing the RGB mod with the de-blur firmware. Though you might have to do some messing around to find the best settings. Some games will look better with the deblur setting on with no scanlines. Other games you might want scanlines and the deblur turned on. N64 takes work to make look good on a flatscreen and even then might not look much better. Either way prepare to subvert your expectations. That being said, I still prefer playing my n64 in rgb.

[Revolver Ocelot]

Sounds like a good advice too me. I have already read similar things that the n64 did not age well and there is not much that can be done against that.

Using the S-Video port of the FM and a nice cable is a good starting point.

The only thing that bothers me a bit is that the image of some S video cables is supposed to be too brigh at Pal N64.

Luckily I found a S-Video cable for pal consoles according to console goods uk. That's the cable I will try.

If you're using a Framemeister try to see if you can find a NTSC N64. You should be able to get one for quite cheap.

On the subject of the games, I should mention that the games I played extensively in the late 90s played and felt exactly as I remembered them.

Since N64 games aren't as expensive as SNES I tried playing some games that I was not able to (due to being a high school student with no income) and I just couldn't get into them despite the critical acclaim that they received. Your experience might be different though.

I am also intersted in the N64 to play some games I missed back then. Either due to limited income or because there was no pal Release. I wanted to get a N64 passport anway to play some import games on my N64. But if NTSC N64 works better with the Framemeister I will get one. My pal n64 library is so limited that I would be no problem to sell the pal games and buy them and the games I did not know yet again as NTSC Version.

My expectations in graphics are realistic I guess. The games i know, look the same I remembered then and the graphic is not bothering me at all. The image cleartiy could be a bit better though so I want to upgrad from the standard composite to S-Video.

@
tacoguy64 Thanks for the advice as well.

[kel]

borti's N64 Advanced board with linedoubling, deblur and hybrid scanlines via component direct to my TV is better than anything else I've tried, it really does seem more forgiving with the N64's muddy picture. No need for any scalers if your TV has decent scaling although it also looks just as good transcoded through the OSSC but not necessary though. Even the UltraHDMI although very good didn't give me quite the same effect. borti has really done well on that board, credit where credit's due.

[Revolver Ocelot]

kel Thanks for your advice as well.

There are some positiv opinions about the RGB mod and thats nice, but I will start with a simple upgrade first. S-video.

Can anybody recommend a decent high quality S Video cable that works well with the N64? There are so many cheap ones out there and that makes it hard to find a decent one. So i would be really glad to get some advice.

[nmalinoski]

Can anybody recommend a decent high quality S Video cable that works well with the N64? There are so many cheap ones out there and that makes it hard to find a decent one. So i would be really glad to get some advice.

I've heard good things about the cabling sold by thefoo.83 on eBay. He has S-Video cables for NTSC N64s and PAL N64s. There are slight differences between the two (the PAL cables seem to need some additional components), so buy accordingly.

[maxtherabbit]

if you have a launch model n64, the RGB mod is basically "free"

I think I paid less than $2 for the THS7316 and a 20-pack of DIP-8 converter boards on ebay. The soldering is easy so if you're looking to get into modding it would be a decent place to start. The only challenging thing to do is attach the surface mount RGB amp to the converter board. Honestly they are so cheap you could buy several to practice on.

[FinalBaton]

Can anybody recommend a decent high quality S Video cable that works well with the N64? There are so many cheap ones out there and that makes it hard to find a decent one. So i would be really glad to get some advice.

I bought this one and really happy with it : https://www.ebay.ca/itm/The-best-S-vide ... SwEppUPd4d

supposedly it's a good copy of the original Nintendo cable and is shielded sufficiently (although I haven't opened mine up to confirm). The picture is sharp though and there's no checkerboarding patterns

[nmalinoski]

Can anybody recommend a decent high quality S Video cable that works well with the N64? There are so many cheap ones out there and that makes it hard to find a decent one. So i would be really glad to get some advice.

I bought this one and really happy with it : https://www.ebay.ca/itm/The-best-S-vide ... SwEppUPd4d

supposedly it's a good copy of the original Nintendo cable and is shielded sufficiently (although I haven't opened mine up to confirm). The picture is sharp though and there's no checkerboarding patterns

Do you get any audio hum with this cable? It might be most noticeable on all-white screens.

[FinalBaton]

Do you get any audio hum with this cable? It might be most noticeable on all-white screens.

I can't say, I only play N64 at my buddy's place (don't have a N64 myself), and the sound source is the tv, and that's not exactly a pristine sound source. It's hard to analyze audio noise through that. I can't say that I've noticed audio buzz though. But again : I didn't test this thoroughly

[Revolver Ocelot]

Ok thanks for the advice. for the cables. Good to know that there are some decent cables out there.


@maxtherabbit I am not sure for 100 per cent but I think I have the launch model of the N64. If is that cheap i can really try to start to mod it myself. If they are cheap I could get more to practise.

I want to get NTSC N64 anyway to play import games so I have another n64 anyway if something goes wrong...

I will think about it.

[borti4938]

The "cheap" RGB mod is not possible on PAL N64 models except for early French ones.

borti's N64 Advanced board with linedoubling, deblur and hybrid scanlines via component direct to my TV is better than anything else I've tried, it really does seem more forgiving with the N64's muddy picture. No need for any scalers if your TV has decent scaling although it also looks just as good transcoded through the OSSC but not necessary though. Even the UltraHDMI although very good didn't give me quite the same effect. borti has really done well on that board, credit where credit's due.

Whooo... THANK YOU

[Revolver Ocelot]

Ok thanks for the warning borti. I do not have a french model. So i have to look for another mod and find somebody who can do it if I decide to get the mod done.

But at first I will try how S video can improve my image quality

[Revolver Ocelot]

It is not certain yet but maybe i found somebody who could help me to do the mod on my future ntsc n64. The pal model i Keep in normal condition and use with the S Video cable I have already ordered.

I googled a bit more about the n64 rgb mod and there are quiet a lot mods out there.

Which one is the best curent mod to use an a lcd tv and the Framemeister?

They aleady mentioned mod from borti or would you recommend another one?

[borti4938]

It depends on you, which one is the best RGB mod for you.

If you don't care about deblur stuff, IGR and just want to have RGB output: try to find a CPU-01/02/03/04 NTSC and get it modded with a THS7374 mod.

If you want to have deblur stuff, IGR but do not care about a OSD menu, go with a CPLD based solution. This means, viletims popular mod or equivalent ones.

If you want to go a bit further and want to have a menu for setting up deblur and IGR and the opportunity to output RGsB, YPbPr and line doubled 480p, you have to go for the N64Advanced project. Afak there is no shop offering that atm.

If you don't find a modder in Austria, you can contact me. I'm from Germany.

[Revolver Ocelot]

It depends on you, which one is the best RGB mod for you.

If you don't care about deblur stuff, IGR and just want to have RGB output: try to find a CPU-01/02/03/04 NTSC and get it modded with a THS7374 mod.

If you want to have deblur stuff, IGR but do not care about a OSD menu, go with a CPLD based solution. This means, viletims popular mod or equivalent ones.

If you want to go a bit further and want to have a menu for setting up deblur and IGR and the opportunity to output RGsB, YPbPr and line doubled 480p, you have to go for the N64Advanced project. Afak there is no shop offering that atm.

If you don't find a modder in Austria, you can contact me. I'm from Germany.

Thanks for the answer and your friendly offer. After some more research I think the advanced n64 project should be ineed the way to go. I am in contact with a modder here in Austria but not sure yet if he will do it or not.

If not I will take your friendly offer and contact you again for sure.

[Xyga]

I happen to have an US N64 taking the dust and I'd like to put it to use.

Question is: can I trust the many multi-cables I see everywhere on eBay (composite+svideo+audio) ?

Because I thought the genuine S-Video cables for the N64 - working only with NTSC models since the PAL N64s supposedly don't produce svideo - weren't sold in Europe ?

I'm afraid to buy a fake that only carries composite, even through the so-called S-Video out...

[nmalinoski]

Question is: can I trust the many multi-cables I see everywhere on eBay (composite+svideo+audio) ?

Because I thought the genuine S-Video cables for the N64 - working only with NTSC models since the PAL N64s supposedly don't produce svideo - weren't sold in Europe ?

I'm afraid to buy a fake that only carries composite, even through the so-called S-Video out...

Two things:
1. No, you can't trust them. It's an absolute crapshoot whether the S-Video cable actually carries luma and chroma or it just carries composite, and, even then, the cabling itself isn't shielded, so you're likely to get noise and audio hum.

2. My [potentially flawed] understanding is that the PAL N64s are capable of S-Video output, but the cables need additional components. thefoo.83 makes reputable cables and has a PAL-N64-specific model, although it's currently out of stock; you can send him a message to ask him to build more.

[Xyga]

I suspected so yeah, those cheap cables look fishy.

But since I have an NTSC/US N64, not PAL, don't I need a working true S-Video cable for N64 and that's it ? (guess I'd probably only find one on north-american eBay or something)

Or are these as elusive there than in euro region ?

EDIT: what about this ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-best-S-vide ... 79599#rwid
No overseas shipping.

[Revolver Ocelot]

I have another question. Can the RGB Mod solve the Sync Issues the N64 has with the Framemeister. Some N64 changing resolutions during Game are not playable on the FM including one my favourite Games RE 2.

Can a RGB mod help to erase that problem or is there nothing that can be done against it, I need to plug in the N64 directly into the TV to play some certain N64 games.

[CobraKing]

I have another question. Can the RGB Mod to solve the Sync Issues the N64 has with the Framemeister. Some N64 changing resolutions during Game are not playable on the FM including one my favourite Games RE 2.

Can a RGB mod help to erase that problem or is there nothing that can be done against it, I need to plug in the N64 directly into the TV to play some certain N64 games.

Nope that delay is inherent to the Framemeister. Marq's OSSC is significantly quicker in that regard but only accepts RGB inputs presently.

[Revolver Ocelot]

I have another question. Can the RGB Mod to solve the Sync Issues the N64 has with the Framemeister. Some N64 changing resolutions during Game are not playable on the FM including one my favourite Games RE 2.

Can a RGB mod help to erase that problem or is there nothing that can be done against it, I need to plug in the N64 directly into the TV to play some certain N64 games.

Nope that delay is inherent to the Framemeister. Marq's OSSC is significantly quicker in that regard but only accepts RGB inputs presently.

Thanks for the answer. I though so already . Thats the only thing I do not like about the FM, that some Games are not working. But not that big Problem. Have no problem to plug in the N64 directly into the TV for the games that ahve these synch issues.

[nmalinoski]

But since I have an NTSC/US N64, not PAL, don't I need a working true S-Video cable for N64 and that's it ? (guess I'd probably only find one on north-american eBay or something)

Oh, I misread. In that case, thefoo.83 has the cable for you right now.

I bought one of those "best S-Video" cables, but from a US seller, and they're okay. They look a bit thin to me, and I'm not convinced that they're well-shielded.