Original Xbox best picture on a CRT

[RetroBVM]

Can you output YPbPr/Component 480P, 720P and 1080i through SCART, if not why?

[nmalinoski]

Can you output YPbPr/Component 480P, 720P and 1080i through SCART, if not why?

Technically yes, generally no.

The Xbox, like the Dreamcast, outputs different video formats depending on which Mode pins on the AV connector are jumped by the inserted cable. In simpler terms, Xbox AV cables are constructed in a way that allows the console to know what type of cable is connected so it can output the correct video format(s) for the connected cable.

When you connect a normal Xbox SCART cable to the console, it knows to output standard-definition RGBS. Allegedly, the console does not allow ED or HD formats to avoid damage to CRTs that cannot support those resolutions. (Frankly, this doesn't make much sense to me, since YPbPr can do the same, and they solved that by allowing you to enable specific resolutions in the video config.)

Now, technically you could rewire an Xbox SCART cable to unbridge pin 17 so you get YPbPr output, but that mode shuts off composite video, meaning your SCART cable would have no sync signal, so it won't work with any automatic SCART switches or devices that require a sync signal; the cable would ONLY be good for OSSC use, forcing AV1 to YPbPr; possibly also Framemeister use with a SCART to D-Terminal adapter.

But, really, why would you? If you're using an OSSC, just use native YPbPr from the console; it's so much more straightforward, and, if you get one of the official HD Video Pack breakout boxes, or a Monster component cable, you get digital audio as well.

[RetroBVM]

Can you output YPbPr/Component 480P, 720P and 1080i through SCART, if not why?

Technically yes, generally no.

The Xbox, like the Dreamcast, outputs different video formats depending on which Mode pins on the AV connector are jumped by the inserted cable. In simpler terms, Xbox AV cables are constructed in a way that allows the console to know what type of cable is connected so it can output the correct video format(s) for the connected cable.

When you connect a normal Xbox SCART cable to the console, it knows to output standard-definition RGBS. Allegedly, the console does not allow ED or HD formats to avoid damage to CRTs that cannot support those resolutions. (Frankly, this doesn't make much sense to me, since YPbPr can do the same, and they solved that by allowing you to enable specific resolutions in the video config.)

Now, technically you could rewire an Xbox SCART cable to unbridge pin 17 so you get YPbPr output, but that mode shuts off composite video, meaning your SCART cable would have no sync signal, so it won't work with any automatic SCART switches or devices that require a sync signal; the cable would ONLY be good for OSSC use, forcing AV1 to YPbPr; possibly also Framemeister use with a SCART to D-Terminal adapter.

But, really, why would you? If you're using an OSSC, just use native YPbPr from the console; it's so much more straightforward, and, if you get one of the official HD Video Pack breakout boxes, or a Monster component cable, you get digital audio as well.

There some CRT tvs that support 480P and up to 1080P, is it technically possible to transmit such a HD RGBS video signal trough SCART?

[nmalinoski]

There some CRT tvs that support 480P and up to 1080P, is it technically possible to transmit such a HD RGBS video signal trough SCART?

Technically, yes, if the cable quality is good enough to transmit the bandwidth required. (And technically 480p/576p is ED, not HD.) I am able to use 480p over SCART from my Dreamcast using the BeharBros Toro box.

That said, you won't be able to get 480p+ RGBS or RGBHV out of the Xbox without some kind of complicated hard mod; frankly, to me, it's not worth it; it's easier to simply use component, or perhaps wait until someone develops an internal HDMI mod.

[RetroBVM]

There some CRT tvs that support 480P and up to 1080P, is it technically possible to transmit such a HD RGBS video signal trough SCART?

Technically, yes, if the cable quality is good enough to transmit the bandwidth required. (And technically 480p/576p is ED, not HD.) I am able to use 480p over SCART from my Dreamcast using the BeharBros Toro box.

That said, you won't be able to get 480p+ RGBS or RGBHV out of the Xbox without some kind of complicated hard mod; frankly, to me, it's not worth it; it's easier to simply use component, or perhaps wait until someone develops an internal HDMI mod.

Thats all I wanted to know. So now we add the original Xbox to the RGB hardware mod list (analog or digita video output) .

[DAVI22]

is currently investigating how to modify the bios of xbox to force the graphics chips of the versions with conexant or focus (its nvidia chips in theory support 240p) can emit by rgb scart cable at low resolution 240p for coinops/emuxtras

[Ikaruga11]

Every revision of the Xbox except 1.6b (the very last one) has awful RGB output.

[DAVI22]

xbox via rgb cable gives 480i interlaced signal, so it does not look good ... it hurts that no source support 240p

[arithmaldor]

If you did that you could even tap into the gscart sync regeneration circuit and find H(C-sync) and V sync.

You'd still have SOG though. Which is fine its just I like to have the option of both as I'm starting to use crt computer monitors more.

I had a quick look for an Xbox HV mod or some schematics for the boards but no dice, watching this thread in case someone finds some info.

Here is a thread with info about patching the patched VGA bios to remove all sync from the green signal.

https://assemblergames.com/threads/xbox ... ded.61635/

[strygo]

In the past, RGsB output from the Xbox had been considered a poor option due to low device compatibility or the need to use an Extron device to convert the signal. I recently picked up a GScartSW that has built in RGsB to RGBS conversion, so I've been exploring RGsB as a possible format for the Xbox. Info on the web is scattered and incomplete, so I'm hoping folks may be able help fill in some information gaps that I have.

My understanding is that to output RGsB, you need a softmodded pre-1.6 Xbox. My Xbox happens to be 1.6, so I'm in the process of tracking down an earlier model. From there, you can use the NKPatcher to force RGsB output. Will RGsB be output when the official SCART cable is used or does it only output RGsB when the HD pack cable is used?

I'm hoping the SCART cable works for the sake of simplicity, but assuming it doesn't, my understanding is that I'll need something like the following for my needs. I've scoured the web for a source, but I haven't found any that take YPbPr and audio like shown below. Does anyone know where to find one or have one they'd part with?



Is this all I'd need for RGsB support? Anything else to be aware of?

[Dochartaigh]

In the past, RGsB output from the Xbox had been considered a poor option due to low device compatibility or the need to use an Extron device to convert the signal.

Never thought of this as a negative to be honest. I always figure anybody who's going to open up an old xbox from ~2001 and physically start soldering stuff in it to hard and soft mod to use VGA (usually on a CRT) most commonly already has a couple Extron RGB boxes (they're still only $15 shipped fyi...) already in their setup in my experience. Or maybe it's just because my group of BVM junky friends always have stuff like this

My understanding is that to output RGsB, you need a softmodded pre-1.6 Xbox. My Xbox happens to be 1.6, so I'm in the process of tracking down an earlier model. From there, you can use the NKPatcher to force RGsB output. Will RGsB be output when the official SCART cable is used or does it only output RGsB when the HD pack cable is used?

It's been a very long while but yes, needs to be pre-1.6. Need to mod the BIOS which involves a couple solder bridging (and maybe mine needed a single wire if my memory serves? - think it's dependent on the exact version motherboard you have). I think I still have the VGA BIOS's in a zip file if you need them (those were hard to find a while ago - hopefully they're easier found online now).

I have no clue about other cables or using HD packs for VGA though - never heard of that. I always thought you needed an actual cable wired for VGA which modders on a couple forums used to sell back in the day – I have a Frozen VGA cable (no longer made, got the last one the guy said) with a LMH1980 chip which can output RGBHV or RGBS to an actual VGA plug. Mine also outputs stereo audio and/or optical audio.

[strygo]

It's been a very long while but yes, needs to be pre-1.6. Need to mod the BIOS which involves a couple solder bridging (and maybe mine needed a single wire if my memory serves? - think it's dependent on the exact version motherboard you have). I think I still have the VGA BIOS's in a zip file if you need them (those were hard to find a while ago - hopefully they're easier found online now).

It appears these BIOSs have been bundled in Rocky5's softmodding tool, so they are widely available at this point. Thank you for the offer!

I have no clue about other cables or using HD packs for VGA though - never heard of that. I always thought you needed an actual cable wired for VGA which modders on a couple forums used to sell back in the day – I have a Frozen VGA cable (no longer made, got the last one the guy said) with a LMH1980 chip which can output RGBHV or RGBS to an actual VGA plug. Mine also outputs stereo audio and/or optical audio.

My understanding is that these cables take the RGsB (sync on green) and then output RGBHV (or RGBS) using the chip you describe. Apart from the passive adapter I referenced, I believe this RGC cable would suit my needs, but it's currently out of stock. If anyone can confirm this, I'd greatly appreciate it.

[Syntax]

The sync is never properly cleaned off green and can effect that channel brightness.

The vga only bios is a mod of the frosty patches.
It requires hex editing and I've only had it work on conexant encoders and evo bios. You wont find it in rocky5

Should use a buffer ic too. The hv signal is tapped directly from the gpu, high load will kill the gpu. I've done it.

[kitty666cats]

In the past, RGsB output from the Xbox had been considered a poor option due to low device compatibility or the need to use an Extron device to convert the signal. I recently picked up a GScartSW that has built in RGsB to RGBS conversion, so I've been exploring RGsB as a possible format for the Xbox. Info on the web is scattered and incomplete, so I'm hoping folks may be able help fill in some information gaps that I have.

My understanding is that to output RGsB, you need a softmodded pre-1.6 Xbox. My Xbox happens to be 1.6, so I'm in the process of tracking down an earlier model. From there, you can use the NKPatcher to force RGsB output. Will RGsB be output when the official SCART cable is used or does it only output RGsB when the HD pack cable is used?

I'm hoping the SCART cable works for the sake of simplicity, but assuming it doesn't, my understanding is that I'll need something like the following for my needs. I've scoured the web for a source, but I haven't found any that take YPbPr and audio like shown below. Does anyone know where to find one or have one they'd part with?



Is this all I'd need for RGsB support? Anything else to be aware of?

You can attach a secondary dongle that has an audio breakout (those cheap switchable ones with one side female one side male + composite svid and audio ports) if you don’t want to go messing around with the cables - I have done so in the past with that RCA RGBS/YPbPr Hama dongle and the signal was fine (especially if you are running it through something like gscartsw).

Have you experimented with the FC-14 I sold you & feeding it the Xbox RGsB, as well as sync-cleaned RGBS? You can also select the RGBHV button on the FC-14 which usually works with RGBS too/may provide a slight difference if the device before it is stripping/cleaning sync

[strygo]

You can attach a secondary dongle that has an audio breakout (those cheap switchable ones with one side female one side male + composite svid and audio ports) if you don’t want to go messing around with the cables - I have done so in the past with that RCA RGBS/YPbPr Hama dongle and the signal was fine (especially if you are running it through something like gscartsw).

Oh, interesting, you can use one of those dongles to feed audio in? I assumed it was only possible to get audio out (this would be to go from YPbPr+stereo to SCART to gscartsw).

Have you experimented with the FC-14 I sold you & feeding it the Xbox RGsB, as well as sync-cleaned RGBS? You can also select the RGBHV button on the FC-14 which usually works with RGBS too/may provide a slight difference if the device before it is stripping/cleaning sync

I haven't tried this - I can already get YPbPr out of the Xbox - I'm trying to get RGB (or more specifically RGsB) out so I can avoid an unnecessary conversion.

Upon further testing, my 1.6 console is compatible with NKPatcher, and I am able to get RGsB out of it without patching the BIOS. This only works when the console thinks a HD Pack is plugged in, so I'm planning to modify an existing RGC SCART cable - I believe this should work without much effort on my end.

[kitty666cats]

These ones, specifically, are the ones I tested. Bi-directional!

[strygo]

I ordered a couple of these adapters, but while I wait for them to arrive, I got adventurous and modified my Advanced SCART cable. I was able to disconnect the mode pin 17 from ground so that the cable appears as the HD Component cable.

The cable appears to be working as intended, but since my console is a version 1.6, it appears not to support RGsB output (despite what I thought may be the case earlier).

Once I track down an earlier console, I will post an update. FWIW, assuming the cable works, the actual mod was simple (removing the casing without damaging anything was another story).

[strygo]

I recently tracked down a 1.0 skeleton Xbox and softmodded it last night. The good news is that I correctly modified my Advanced SCART cable. For anyone considering this route, I recommend it. The official SCART cable is very well made and supports digital audio if that interests you. Someone is selling new ones on eBay. Apart from needing to take care when disassembling the Xbox AV port, the actual modification was quite easy - I simply cut the wire between pins 5 and 17.

To output RGsB, I am using the Force VGA setting in NKPatcher and it works on the UnleashX dashboard and the games I've tested. However, the boot sequence and the MS Dashboard both have the green tint. I believe I know why this is happening - I think executables may be reinitializing the display mode.

I'm curious if patching the BIOS can address these issues and provide a better experience. For the purposes of RGsB output, is there a recommended BIOS?

Update: I realized that the MS dashboard was actually running in 480i - by switching it to 480p (by pressing L trigger + R trigger + both analog sticks), that problem was resolved.

[strygo]

What started as a desire to get RGB out of the console ended with becoming versed in all aspects of Xbox modding. I decided to flash my BIOS to see if it would address my issues, so this required bridging two pairs of pads on the motherboard.

I'm now running IND-BIOS 5003.67 with VGA support and it completely addressed the gripes I had going the NKPatcher route. NKPatcher works great to test cables and verify the approach, but flashing the BIOS provides a better user experience. After testing some alternatives, I went with IND-BIOS because it provides a means to easily configure the boot sequence and I've managed to fully restore the stock experience through some tweaking of its config file. This approach paired with a gscartsw is perfect for my needs.

[inno]

I'm going to try this mod as well as I have a CRT capable of 480p RGsB and it looks fantastic with PS2 in this mode.
I have the official Xbox Scart cable already but only a 1.6 rev Xbox. Going to have to try and pick up a cheap earlier revision.
Can I do this with any non 1.6 version Xbox? Is there a reason you went with a 1.0?

[lalilulelo]

I've been thinking a little about modding a system to get RGsB. I currently have a 1.1 system (I think) using the official HD pack connected to a Garo. The image quality is pretty good, but it does seem a little dark compared to most of my other systems on the same monitor - even my Gamecube, which is also using the Garo. So I've been thinking a modded system might be a good idea - I can easily build a custom cable for it myself, since my monitor supports RGsB. One thing I was wondering about, would any of the steps needed to get RGsB working on a Debug Xbox be any different compared to a retail system? Did the Debug Xbox have any support for RGsB by default?

[strygo]

I'm going to try this mod as well as I have a CRT capable of 480p RGsB and it looks fantastic with PS2 in this mode.
I have the official Xbox Scart cable already but only a 1.6 rev Xbox. Going to have to try and pick up a cheap earlier revision.
Can I do this with any non 1.6 version Xbox? Is there a reason you went with a 1.0?

I definitely recommend it. For longevity reasons (e.g.: hard drives failing), it's likely a good idea to soft mod any Xbox you have. The Rocky5 tool is simple enough and works well. And if you like the look of the RGsB in your setup, you can then go the TSOP route to polish it a bit more. Modifying the SCART cable is easy - the hardest part is opening it. I mangled my RGC cable but in doing so figured out how the Xbox connector is held together. When I modified the official one, I was more patient and didn't damage it at all. Cutting the single connection between pins was easy.

As for the model, I specifically chose the clear smoke "Skeleton" Japanese model because I like the look of it. It happens to be 1.0. I believe one of the other threads here indicated that there are some game compatibility issues on the 1.3/1.4 models, but that wasn't a factor in my decision.

I've been thinking a little about modding a system to get RGsB. I currently have a 1.1 system (I think) using the official HD pack connected to a Garo. The image quality is pretty good, but it does seem a little dark compared to most of my other systems on the same monitor - even my Gamecube, which is also using the Garo. So I've been thinking a modded system might be a good idea - I can easily build a custom cable for it myself, since my monitor supports RGsB. One thing I was wondering about, would any of the steps needed to get RGsB working on a Debug Xbox be any different compared to a retail system? Did the Debug Xbox have any support for RGsB by default?

I've tested every YPbPr to RGB transcoder I can find, and all of them degrade the picture quality at higher resolutions. It's noticeable at 480p but much more profound at 720p. My desire has been to settle on RGB exclusively so RGsB was a good approach to achieve this. For GameCube, the GCHD MK-II is a decent way to get RGB out without a mod.

For the debug Xbox, you'll need to use the same approach as a retail unit. Its video modes are no different than retail.

[strayan]

I've tested every YPbPr to RGB transcoder I can find, and all of them degrade the picture quality at higher resolutions

Have you tried a GBS-C?

[strygo]

Have you tried a GBS-C?

No, I haven't. How does it perform on the higher resolutions? For my particular setup, I've managed to do away with YPbPr, so it's less pressing of a concern at this point (for me).

[lalilulelo]

I've tested every YPbPr to RGB transcoder I can find, and all of them degrade the picture quality at higher resolutions. It's noticeable at 480p but much more profound at 720p. My desire has been to settle on RGB exclusively so RGsB was a good approach to achieve this. For GameCube, the GCHD MK-II is a decent way to get RGB out without a mod.

How is that really different from a TV/monitor with built-in component inputs though? Displays like that still have a transcoder, it's just built-in to the device. I've thought about getting something like the GCHD, but actually the GC already looks pretty good with my current setup - the Xbox is more in need of an improvement. I'm only using 480p with both of those systems. I've found that the sharpness and color definition are already pretty good with both systems, the brightness is the main issue (mainly just the Xbox).

I'd probably opt for RGB-only too ideally - it's just that it'd be quite a bit more money and/or effort, and the setup I already have isn't too bad. For the Xbox though, it is rather tempting.

Another alternative for the Xbox is to use a 360 with a VGA cable. The only drawback of that is that not all games work, and some have issues.