Original Xbox best picture on a CRT

[Fudoh]

Wasn't there a second version of this? possibly by another company which did the same thing?

Neoya made a X2VGA2 which was a standalone transcoder unit and could be used with any component source. I guess that at the time it wasn't a great success, since many other affordable transcoders were available.

[opt2not]

I forget how many months, but I had an eBay alert setup for one of those probably for the better part of a year....zero hits,

Damn, well you just missed one on ebay a couple days ago for $5... lol

[Dochartaigh]

I forget how many months, but I had an eBay alert setup for one of those probably for the better part of a year....zero hits,

Damn, well you just missed one on ebay a couple days ago for $5... lol

Thanks for ruining my dreams lol. And yeah, that does kinda suck, I would have picked that up just because (especially for $5), but I cancelled that search a couple months ago when I got the Frozen VGA cable (which was very affordable as well). Funny one popped up super recently. All those are is a YPbPr to VGA converter though - there's tons of those out there. I wanted to experiment with getting RGBS directly off the Xbox, and although it's still converting RGsB to RGBS (kinda like the above), that's still just fine for me and I can cross off one more system I've converted to RGBS.

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

I setup and elert.. I wander how many people on this forum did the same;)

[Syntax]

I'd rather open my Xbox and find the chip that produces rgbhv.

If it's anything like a Sony we can get those signals before sync is added to green. Then add a vga plug to the Xbox.

[Steamflogger Boss]

All those are is a YPbPr to VGA converter though - there's tons of those out there.

Yeah and they aren't locked to Xbox either. This is a cool novelty but I wouldn't pay much for it.

[Dochartaigh]

I'd rather open my Xbox and find the chip that produces rgbhv.

If it's anything like a Sony we can get those signals before sync is added to green. Then add a vga plug to the Xbox.

The thing is (from my quasi-limited knowledge) it doesn't produce RGBHV. Or I guess somewhere it would have to but it must not be easy to get to or everybody and their mother would be modding for that I would think (and I've certainly never read about that mod).

It is however able to natively export RGsB with an updates BIOS which then lets the standard A/V port on the back export RGsB – of which most of these devices (including my own Frozen VGA cable) taps into the sync on green to export RGBHV or RGBS or whatever.

[philexile]

You can get real RGBHV from the Xbox. I had to do that Mod when using VGA output via a 203rxi to a BVM a few years back. The BVM didn’t like the sync on green VGA solutions. This Mod doesn’t use any LM1881 circuit.

I can’t find the site that had the instructions but I know I backed it up as a PDF. If anyone is interested, just PM me and I’ll post a link tonight.

[Ikaruga11]

You can get real RGBHV from the Xbox. I had to do that Mod when using VGA output via a 203rxi to a BVM a few years back. The BVM didn’t like the sync on green VGA solutions. This Mod doesn’t use any LM1881 circuit.

I can’t find the site that had the instructions but I know I backed it up as a PDF. If anyone is interested, just PM me and I’ll post a link tonight.

I'm interested. RGBHV is considerably better in quality than RGsB, right?

I'm wondering if this is the correct chain:

Xbox modded with RGBHV -> BNC Cables with Sync Combiner -> Extron (Accepts CSync only) -> BNC Cables -> BVM

[Fudoh]

It might be more convenient, but the quality is the same. Claims that RGsB doesn't provide the same quality come from poor transcoding or sync conversion devices.

If you have a BVM you can feed it RGBs, RGsB or component without any additional hardware. Why you would want to use anything but component (when the XBox provides it and the BVM accepts it) is beyond me.

[djc5166]

You can get real RGBHV from the Xbox. I had to do that Mod when using VGA output via a 203rxi to a BVM a few years back. The BVM didn’t like the sync on green VGA solutions. This Mod doesn’t use any LM1881 circuit.

I can’t find the site that had the instructions but I know I backed it up as a PDF. If anyone is interested, just PM me and I’ll post a link tonight.

I'm interested. RGBHV is considerably better in quality than RGsB, right?

I'm wondering if this is the correct chain:

Xbox modded with RGBHV -> BNC Cables with Sync Combiner -> Extron (Accepts CSync only) -> BNC Cables -> BVM

I would think it would be the same as long as you are handing the signals correctly. But things like the framemeister wont handle RGsB

[Dochartaigh]

If you have a BVM you can feed it RGBs, RGsB or component without any additional hardware. Why you would want to use anything but component (when the XBox provides it and the BVM accepts it) is beyond me.

You can feed regular PVM's these same signals as well, but switching to all of them isn't as simple as it seems. For the ever-popular PVM-20L5 for example, with the stock inputs, IF you have a switcher capable of using the same cable running to it for both RGBS and YPbPr (i.e. so you don't have to manually switch cables at least) then it's something like a mere 11 button presses!!! to switch from RGBS to YPbPr. If that's not annoying when switching sources I don't know what is.

Thankfully on other non-multiformat PVM's it's less of a chore, and BVM's can be setup where you press 1 button to switch from RGBS to YPbPr, and even getting the ~$150-200 BKM-129x card for the 20L5 can make this a lot easier...but needless to say things like the above is why I strive to get my entire setup switched over to RGBS.

Super popular switches like the Gscartswlite won't even take YPbPr or RGsB (which would be a more common signal type over scart like PS2 does i think). I don't know about the Hydra and the others but they're probably RGBS Scart only...so likewise getting RGBS out of everything makes things a lot more simple which is why I went the route I did on my Xbox.

[Fudoh]

Maybe you should think more about YOUR setup than taking all the possible setups into consideration.

Switches like the Gscartswlite won't even take YPbPr or RGsB

you can run component through a GScartSW by using a simple YUV to Scart adapter, which splits the G signal and connects it to both the Green pin and the sync pin, can't you ?

[Syntax]

If you did that you could even tap into the gscart sync regeneration circuit and find H(C-sync) and V sync.

You'd still have SOG though. Which is fine its just I like to have the option of both as I'm starting to use crt computer monitors more.

I had a quick look for an Xbox HV mod or some schematics for the boards but no dice, watching this thread in case someone finds some info.

[thebigcheese]

If you go the YPbPr route, the OEM cables (and the Monster ones) are pretty expensive, but it's also pretty easy to mod a 360 component cable to work with an original Xbox. The guides online are a little confusing, but basically you're going to cut the Xbox-side plugs off of each cable (just use a cheap composite cable for original Xbox), rewire some of the connections inside the Xbox connector so that it is set for component instead of composite, and then solder up the rest of the wires. I just cut off the leftover composite wire since I isn't even connected in this case. I've seen someone on YouTube repurpose the optical out of the 360 connector to work on this custom Xbox cable, but it was a bit of an ugly solution and wouldn't really make sense in my setup anyway. Quality is very good with this solution, IMO.

[Dochartaigh]

Maybe you should think more about YOUR setup than taking all the possible setups into consideration.

I was talking about my setup! (well, besides the gscart part, I use a Crosspoint)

Right now on my desk I have a PVM-3230 (which can't take Component, only RGBS), a L5 (which needs those 11 button presses to switch from RGBS to YPbPr), and a BVM-D20 (which has the easiest way to switch from one signal type to another as long as you setup channels for that).

I was simply letting you know (hopefully in a quasi-logical way why some people (like myself) do things like this for multiple different reasons since you asked why anybody would want to use anything but component.

you can run component through a GScartSW by using a simple YUV to Scart adapter, which splits the G signal and connects it to both the Green pin and the sync pin, can't you ?

Good to know, thanks! I don't use a GScart but that sounds like a good solution to get a little more use out of that switcher.

[nmalinoski]

Super popular switches like the Gscartswlite won't even take YPbPr or RGsB (which would be a more common signal type over scart like PS2 does i think). I don't know about the Hydra and the others but they're probably RGBS Scart only...so likewise getting RGBS out of everything makes things a lot more simple which is why I went the route I did on my Xbox.

You make it sound like SCART switchers are supposed to handle RGsB or YPbPr, but SCART was designed to handle CVBS, YC, and RGBS, and devices that can accept RGsB and YPbPr over SCART are nonstandard outliers.

I don't necessarily agree that getting RGBS out of YPbPr-capable devices makes sense, but I do believe it's most convenient if you ultimately end up with a single format, like RGBS or YPbPr.

This is what I've done so far with my setup; since most of my older consoles are YPbPr-capable, and because I'm using US consumer TVs, getting everything into YPbPr makes the most sense for me. I have CVBS and YC devices feed into an RGB/YPbPr decoder, then YPbPr from the decoder feeds into a YPbPr switch. That switch then gets split between my CRT TV and my LCD TV (via OSSC). When I start to accommodate RGBS (For my PlayStation, Dreamcast, and eventually N64), I'll probably end up using a SCART switch and splitting that between my OSSC and an RGBS-to-YPbPr transcoder running to my CRT.

Switches like the Gscartswlite won't even take YPbPr or RGsB

you can run component through a GScartSW by using a simple YUV to Scart adapter, which splits the G signal and connects it to both the Green pin and the sync pin, can't you ?

I recall reading that the problem with passive adapters like that is that they don't clean sync from green, and some monitors will interpret that sync as hue adjustment.

In lieu of waiting for superg's planned RGsB->RGBS SCART shim, I would try running the gscartsw_lite through a gcompsw, because the gcompsw would definitely handle RGsB. I still haven't heard of anyone trying to pass RGBS through a gcompsw, running sync through the composite video I/O, but, assuming it does, a setup like that should work fine for consolidating YPbPr, RGBS, and RGsB into a single input on a PVM or BVM.

[Syntax]

still haven't heard of anyone trying to pass RGBS through a gcompsw, running sync through the composite video I/O, but, assuming it does, a setup like that should work fine for consolidating YPbPr, RGBS, and RGsB into a single input on a PVM or BVM.

You meant to say RGsBS right?

I'll have a try now and see if a ps2 syncs to both.

[Fudoh]

Right now on my desk I have a PVM-3230 (which can't take Component, only RGBS), a L5 (which needs those 11 button presses to switch from RGBS to YPbPr), and a BVM-D20 (which has the easiest way to switch from one signal type to another as long as you setup channels for that).

oh, ok - just was a bit confusing since you jumped from model to model between posts.

Is the XBox your only component source ? If you more than one source and with your 3230 not accepting component, a standalone transcoder might be good idea, don't you think ?

[Dochartaigh]

oh, ok - just was a bit confusing since you jumped from model to model between posts.

Is the XBox your only component source ? If you more than one source and with your 3230 not accepting component, a standalone transcoder might be good idea, don't you think ?

I jump between different monitors every week man - house is under construction so I don't really have the space I need to have all my toys out at once

And the Xbox, is/was the only component source out of everything - but I'm picking up a Wii this week so that'll change again...and I was using my RetroTINK via component on my RP3 for a while too...but using the Pi2SCART RGBS version on that currently. Still aiming to get everything to RGBS one way or another.

[philexile]

OK, here are some instructions in screenshot form:







Here is the circuit I built with labels:

Spoiler

This is where you pull HV from:





Here is a link to the complete PDF of the forum I pulled this from. If people want to archive this, please download it and post it wherever is "permanent" –

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i7zvr20fhe7kq ... x.pdf?dl=0

Also, this mod is just to enable output of proper H and V sync. There may be other, easier ways to do this. Lastly, this won't improve the video output at all.

[Syntax]

What are the 2 vga modes??

I'll be trying this but with an smd buffer.

[nmalinoski]

still haven't heard of anyone trying to pass RGBS through a gcompsw, running sync through the composite video I/O, but, assuming it does, a setup like that should work fine for consolidating YPbPr, RGBS, and RGsB into a single input on a PVM or BVM.

You meant to say RGsBS right?

I'll have a try now and see if a ps2 syncs to both.

Nope! I meant RGBS, with RGB to red-, green-, and blue-colored inputs respectively, with sync on the composite line; such as with a SCART to BNC adapter paired with 4x female BNC to male RCA adapters. Should allow for a PS2 in RGB mode to be added to an automatic switching setup; again, assuming that the gcompsw will forward everything as I think it will.

[Syntax]

Pretty sure for most vga consoles when in vga mode composite video is turned off to avoid 31 khz being sent to a 15khz screen and popping it.
So Syncs still on green dude so its RGsBs. Which is not really a spec. Might work on some screens. Works with ossc.

[Acer]

It’s been along time but I remember getting the video chip swapped over from a donor Xbox which produced a much cleaner stable signal. I think it was to the Conexant chip; others produced an intermittent wobble / flicker at *i I think 720p*

Table 3.4 Video Chip Identification
Video Chip

Revision

Conexant

1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3

Focus

1.4, 1.5

Xcalibur

1.6

[Acer]

I have both those neoya products and they are excellent. Using the vga one, hooked up to a Sony F520,
It Really is a sight to behold.

[RetroBVM]

Can the original xbox only output 480P, 720P and 1080i in YPbPr through componen cable in NTSC mode or can it output 480P, 720P and 1080i in RGB trought SCART cable?

[Dochartaigh]

Can the original xbox only output 480P, 720P and 1080i in YPbPr through componen cable in NTSC mode or can it output 480P, 720P and 1080i in RGB trought SCART cable?

SCART is 480i only I believe.

YPbPr/Component is in 480i and 480p/720p/1080i.

[nmalinoski]

Can the original xbox only output 480P, 720P and 1080i in YPbPr through componen cable in NTSC mode or can it output 480P, 720P and 1080i in RGB trought SCART cable?

SCART is 480i only I believe.

YPbPr/Component is in 480i and 480p/720p/1080i.

This is my understanding of the Xbox's SCART support as well--SD/15kHz only.

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

I have an original scart cable and above 480i is not an option on the dashboard.. I don't know if a jail break xbox you are able to force 480p and above.

Can the original xbox only output 480P, 720P and 1080i in YPbPr through componen cable in NTSC mode or can it output 480P, 720P and 1080i in RGB trought SCART cable?

SCART is 480i only I believe.

YPbPr/Component is in 480i and 480p/720p/1080i.

This is my understanding of the Xbox's SCART support as well--SD/15kHz only.