Original Xbox best picture on a CRT

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

Hello..guys I need your input..what is the best picture that I can get on an MS Xbox, the original xbox on a CRT? Is there a VGA box like the ones for dreamcast? Scart cables? Is components the best solution? I am interested in playing House of the Dread 3, outrun 2006 and Panzer Dragon.. thanks for the feedback.

[Dochartaigh]

Hello..guys I need your input..what is the best picture that I can get on an MS Xbox, the original xbox on a CRT? Is there a VGA box like the ones for dreamcast? Scart cables? Is components the best solution? I am interested in playing House of the Dread 3, outrun 2006 and Panzer Dragon.. thanks for the feedback.

There's official component boxes which plug into the back of it - they've gotten a bit pricy lately though like $50-65ish I think (also straight cables to YPbPr came later - make sure they're official or Monster brand or whatnot). These outputs YPbPr in 480i/480p/720p/1080i (the latter three if your CRT is a HD). That's the best you can get out of the original Xbox without reverting to modding the motherboard to allow the BIOS to be updated and getting a VGA cable (which has some image shifting issues on 720p I believe...which is really fine since most games are 480p only). Watch out for the fake VGA cables/boxes too - there's a couple out there which simply convert YPbPr to VGA (RGBHV) and from what I hear have some issues (possibly slight lag??? I think I read).

For HoTD 3 you'll need to have the game in 480i and your CRT will have to be able to do proper Standard Definition WITHOUT upscaling (most HD consumer sets you can't use lightguns on since they upscale) - and I like the Mad Catz blasters for it (have two of them I've had no issues with although they were in pristine condition when I got them - I know some people don't like this brand of light guns). Also, don't even think of getting Silent Scope Complete - doesn't work very well on the Xbox (the third and I believe last Xbox light gun game is Starsky and Hutch).

[Hoagtech]

Sync on green VGA

Here’s a working link https://assemblergames.com/threads/my-x ... ers.44219/

Edit: replaced link

[Dochartaigh]

Sync on green VGA

http://image.pinout.net/pinout_vga_file ... out_02.gif

Website seems to be down now - your GIF won't load.

This also needs the correct BIOS installed to work though, correct? And the BIOS install involves bridging some contacts on the motherboard too? (forget if there's a wire or two you need to solder in as well)?

This also (I think, still new to modding the Xbox) won't work on the newer/newest 1.6 Xbox's because those can't be hacked to install a new BIOS, right? (at least that's what the creator of the Frozen VGA cables I have said I think).

[nmalinoski]

I guess it depends on the CRT you're using, the console's video region, and how much you're willing to mod your console.

As I understand it, if you want to use progressive modes, you'll pretty much need to go with YPbPr on an NTSC console. PAL consoles have 480p, 720p, and 1080i removed from the MS dash (there might be a PAL60 option), so you're going to be limited to 576i at the most; however, if you have a PAL console and are willing to softmod, there's at least one region switcher application that will let you switch the video region to NTSC, which will allow you to enable those video options, but you will lose PAL and PAL60 support. (Not a big deal if you plan to use this on an NTSC-capable display or an HD TV.)

If you don't care about progressive modes, then you can likely get away with either YPbPr or RGB, depending on what your CRT supports. If you have SCART-in, you can get an Xbox SCART cable from RetroGamingCables in the UK, or a YPbPr component cable from eBay (Or maybe RGC; you can ask them if they'll build you one)--just stay away from the Tomee cables, as they're notorious for poor-quality product.

In my opinion, the best option is to use the official HD AV Pack, which is a breakout box (as mentioned Dochartaigh) that provides YPbPr, stereo audio via RCA, and digital audio (including surround) via TOSLINK. I have one of these, and I love it; it lets me use the progressive resolutions for games that support them, and I run the digital audio into my home theater receiver. If you go this route, I recommend making sure you get either pick it up with the cables that originally came with the official kit, or separately order the breakout box and a set good-quality, shielded RCA cables.

[djc5166]

In my opinion, the best option is to use the official HD AV Pack, which is a breakout box (as mentioned Dochartaigh) that provides YPbPr, stereo audio via RCA, and digital audio (including surround) via TOSLINK. I have one of these, and I love it; it lets me use the progressive resolutions for games that support them, and I run the digital audio into my home theater receiver. If you go this route, I recommend making sure you get either pick it up with the cables that originally came with the official kit, or separately order the breakout box and a set good-quality, shielded RCA cables.

There is another version of the official (non-Monster) HD AV cables that is just an actual cable with spdif in the console side connector, but I believe it is quite expensive today compared to the "pack" version. The build quality is much higher IMO, but I'm not sure if you'll really see any difference in the video for the extra cash.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Xbox- ... SwmKJakwNE

Sync on green VGA
Here’s a working link https://assemblergames.com/threads/my-x ... ers.44219/
Edit: replaced link

Somewhere in here I think there is some discussion about pulling sync directly from the video encoder and wiring up your own VGA port, for people who don't want to mess with SOG.

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

Thanks for the feedback guys.. I have to hunt down one of those cables..

[nmalinoski]

In my opinion, the best option is to use the official HD AV Pack, which is a breakout box (as mentioned Dochartaigh) that provides YPbPr, stereo audio via RCA, and digital audio (including surround) via TOSLINK. I have one of these, and I love it; it lets me use the progressive resolutions for games that support them, and I run the digital audio into my home theater receiver. If you go this route, I recommend making sure you get either pick it up with the cables that originally came with the official kit, or separately order the breakout box and a set good-quality, shielded RCA cables.

There is another version of the official (non-Monster) HD AV cables that is just an actual cable with spdif in the console side connector, but I believe it is quite expensive today compared to the "pack" version. The build quality is much higher IMO, but I'm not sure if you'll really see any difference in the video for the extra cash.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Xbox- ... SwmKJakwNE

I think that's about what I paid for my HD AV Pack with original cable, shipped (Anything cheaper either didn't have the original cables or the metal was corroded...bleh). I figured Monster had something, but I was unaware it had TOSLINK built into the connector. That'll definitely result in a cleaner wiring config; and Monster definitely built good cables, just with way-too-high pricing.

[Ikaruga11]

Official YPbPr, Sync-on-Green RGsB, VGA or HDMI (are there any HDMI mods for the original Xbox?) converted to analog are all the best options.

[Steamflogger Boss]

I have absolutely no issues with the oem ypbpr cable and most Xbox games look real nice in HD especially compared to PS2.

[nmalinoski]

Official YPbPr, Sync-on-Green RGsB, VGA or HDMI (are there any HDMI mods for the original Xbox?) converted to analog are all the best options.

Not sure about mods, but Metal Jesus recently did a review of an Xbox to HDMI adapter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28jVJkmIK3M

Are there even viable VGA mods for the Xbox?

[Dochartaigh]

Are there even viable VGA mods for the Xbox?

Requires modding inside no matter what, and technically the Xbox can only output Sync-on-Green RGsB (usually - I don't know about the mod mentioned above), but the Frozen VGA cable I have (and is what many people recommend if you can find one) is supposed to be top notch and that pulls proper sync out of the green channel for proper RGBHV/VGA. It even has the chip which you can make output RGBS instead (properly merges the H and V sync into CSYNC) so I'll have my Xbox outputting RGBS just like all my other consoles which will be nice.

[nmalinoski]

Are there even viable VGA mods for the Xbox?

Requires modding inside no matter what, and technically the Xbox can only output Sync-on-Green RGsB (usually - I don't know about the mod mentioned above), but the Frozen VGA cable I have (and is what many people recommend if you can find one) is supposed to be top notch and that pulls proper sync out of the green channel for proper RGBHV/VGA. It even has the chip which you can make output RGBS instead (properly merges the H and V sync into CSYNC) so I'll have my Xbox outputting RGBS just like all my other consoles which will be nice.

Will the Xbox do 480p, 720p, and/or 1080i over RGB?

[Syntax]

Are there even viable VGA mods for the Xbox?

Requires modding inside no matter what, and technically the Xbox can only output Sync-on-Green RGsB (usually - I don't know about the mod mentioned above), but the Frozen VGA cable I have (and is what many people recommend if you can find one) is supposed to be top notch and that pulls proper sync out of the green channel for proper RGBHV/VGA. It even has the chip which you can make output RGBS instead (properly merges the H and V sync into CSYNC) so I'll have my Xbox outputting RGBS just like all my other consoles which will be nice.

Your cable probably leaves the sync on the green channel even though it a has a 1881 stripping the sync then another chip inverting it but its still csync vsync.
If not it's just a 1881 putting csync on the H sync line and V sync on vsync. (Non inverted)

To me this is dodgy because the extra sync info on green can be interpreted by some monitors as a brightness setting.

Getting true H sync from csync is a bitch and so is cleaning sync off green.

[Ikaruga11]

Does the Xbox produce RGB inside the system where it's then encoded into YPbPr, YC, CVBS or RF? If so, then it might be better to use RGB.

Although maybe the games were designed with YPbPr in mind.

[Fudoh]

If your display does 480p in Component, then use component - much easier and no quality disadvantage over RGB. If you want to use a RGB monitor there are ways to do that. But as Syntax mentioned, using RGsB as a base signal can be tricky. Specialized transcoder solutions (like the Neoya) are fine and so are external standalone transcoders (they're just not getting any cheaper).

[Ikaruga11]

If your display does 480p in Component, then use component - much easier and no quality disadvantage over RGB. If you want to use a RGB monitor there are ways to do that. But as Syntax mentioned, using RGsB as a base signal can be tricky. Specialized transcoder solutions (like the Neoya) are fine and so are external standalone transcoders (they're just not getting any cheaper).

So I'm guessing that's a no.

I have an RGB monitor, although I'll probably use Component.

[Dochartaigh]

Will the Xbox do 480p, 720p, and/or 1080i over RGB?

In the case of the VGA Frozen cable I've been talking about, yes. It does up to the max resolution the Xbox can output since it's essentially just VGA with some tweaks to the sync I think. Most games on the Xbox are 480p though (there's maybe 50 which do 720p, then like 7 which do 1080i - this is out of over 1,000 games total).

Your cable probably leaves the sync on the green channel even though it a has a 1881 stripping the sync then another chip inverting it but its still csync vsync.
If not it's just a 1881 putting csync on the H sync line and V sync on vsync. (Non inverted)

To me this is dodgy because the extra sync info on green can be interpreted by some monitors as a brightness setting.

Getting true H sync from csync is a bitch and so is cleaning sync off green.

I honestly have no clue man. It's the updated version by N64Freak which says:

""The difference to the original frozen VGA cable is the Sync separator IC. The frozen cable uses an LM1881 that outputs composite and Vertical sync.
The frozen cable used the composite sync as the Horizontal sync which works quite well but isn't 100% accurate.
My updated version uses the LMH1980 which separates the Horizontal and Vertical sync from the Green signal line.""

If you could translate the above I would love to know! I do know that when I do 480p over RGsB (via SCART) on my PS2 that the brightness seems to be correct (and seems to be identical to when I have it hooked up via the regular component cables), and I've tried this on 3-4 PVM L5's, a couple BVM's, and even my consumer TV downscaled to 480i all seem to look normal brightness-wise. Which monitors did you have problems with this?

If your display does 480p in Component, then use component - much easier and no quality disadvantage over RGB. If you want to use a RGB monitor there are ways to do that. But as Syntax mentioned, using RGsB as a base signal can be tricky. Specialized transcoder solutions (like the Neoya) are fine and so are external standalone transcoders (they're just not getting any cheaper).

I was using an Extron CVC 200 to convert YPbPr to RGBS (or RGBHV) - seems to work very well (although I barely used it to go straight to my HD monitors - more so it could go to the VSC 700 downscaler which only took RGBS on the input side so I could simultaneously run the same Xbox signal on HD and SD monitors alike).

[djc5166]

Are there even viable VGA mods for the Xbox?

Requires modding inside no matter what, and technically the Xbox can only output Sync-on-Green RGsB (usually - I don't know about the mod mentioned above), but the Frozen VGA cable I have (and is what many people recommend if you can find one) is supposed to be top notch and that pulls proper sync out of the green channel for proper RGBHV/VGA. It even has the chip which you can make output RGBS instead (properly merges the H and V sync into CSYNC) so I'll have my Xbox outputting RGBS just like all my other consoles which will be nice.

There's some posts on assembler about being able to pull H and V sync from the video encoder internally and wiring up your own custom VGA port, which you should be able to also make Csync out of. But I think the levels need tinkering with.

I suppose you could also wire sync to unneeded pins on the original AV out and use a custom cable.

[BazookaBen]

I use a Monster component cable running through a YPbPr>RGBHV converter to play in 480p on my CRT PC monitor.

Bonus is that it also has two ways to get digital audio. 2.5mm>RCA cable, or 2.5mm to optical adapter.

[Ikaruga11]

I use a Monster component cable running through a YPbPr>RGBHV converter to play in 480p on my CRT PC monitor.

Bonus is that it also has two ways to get digital audio. 2.5mm>RCA cable, or 2.5mm to optical adapter.

Awesome setup.

People can say whatever they want about Monster, but they made some of the best analog cables on the market, where thick wires and proper shielding actually mattered.

[Syntax]

@Dochartaigh lmh1980 is the correct way to tackle the issue. I cannot remember if it inverts sync after that or not but it will pull clean h sync.

The only issue with your cable would be sync is still present on green. Green tint on some screens ect.

You can test this by putting an OSSC in rgbhv mode or rgsb mode, both will work in 480p. Rgbs should not work with your cable.

I've been playing with rgbhv mods on dreamcast and ps2 this week so everythings new and fresh to me.
I have an old Xbox that I could play with

[Dochartaigh]

You can test this by putting an OSSC in rgbhv mode or rgsb mode, both will work in 480p. Rgbs should not work with your cable.

I'll try that when my setup is all up and running again (currently lost in a 500 pack of zip ties and around 4 miles of wires lol).

So with the encoder (or decoder?) chip this uses, it'll work on my CRT's over RGBS (it's set to merge the sync into RGBS - doesn't output RGBHV like normal unless I desolder a point he bridged I think) --- but won't work through the OSSC in RGBS mode? (only works in RGBHV although there's only 1 merged sync? or RGsB?) - just curious.

[Syntax]

Ah i missed the part where you said sync were recombined.
Why he stripped, split it then merged it is beyond me. Maybe to cater to both hv and csync consumers.

So on ossc rgbhv won't work but rgbs and rgsb will with your cable.

Compinent cables are the way to go on ossc in rgsb mode imo.

[Dochartaigh]

Ah i missed the part where you said sync were recombined.
Why he stripped, split it then merged it is beyond me. Maybe to cater to both hv and csync consumers.

That was totally for me on my request. I was going to have to get another Extron RGB interface or whatnot to properly merge the H and V sync (from the RGBHV/VGA signal) which I casually mentioned to the guy, and he said that the specific chipset he used had the ability to take that RGsB signal from the OG Xbox and output either RGBS or RGBHV. Since I would rather have EVERYTHING on my setup be RGBS for simplicity sake (which is why I wanted these cables instead of Component cables - my main 32" PVM also doesn't take YPbPr...), I had him bridge the contact (or whatever he did) so it makes the Xbox an RGBS system like my 8 or so other consoles.

This also now leaves my Extron CVC 200 YPbPr>RGBS converter free for the Wii I'm picking up this week – which only outputs YPbPr – so I can continue to have everything be RGBS (which means less transcoders, converters, less cables running to everything, less buttons to press on PVM/BVM's to switch from ext to int sync and RGB to YPbPr, etc. etc. etc.). Might take a small hit on the OSSC/FM side if those expect YPbPr or RGBHV instead of RGBS I've converted things to, but that's OK - I mainly play on my CRT's anyway.

[Syntax]

Just keep in mind if you ever plug into a 480p crt and get a green tint it's because of the sync still present on green.

Im the same as you I hate extra things in the chain adding delay.

[BazookaBen]

Im the same as you I hate extra things in the chain adding delay.

Most component>vga converters don't add delay, it's all analog.

[opt2not]

The Neoya xbox x2vga+ is a VGA adapter for your Xbox. I would argue to anyone that it's the best way to get the highest video and audio output from the original Xbox.



Unfortunately they are rare, and somewhat unknown to most people. Here's the manual.

It plugs directly into your Xbox's AV port, and outputs VGA at 480p, 720p, and 1080i. You can also has optical audio output, and some dip switches for different sync configurations, like changing from separate H/V sync to Composite. It also has a VGA pass-through, which came in handy BITD for having your PC connected through it to the same monitor you were using the xbox on.

I had this thing for years and it was by for the best all-in-one solution for getting the highest quality out of an original Xbox. I even added a SLG to the VGA output and it looked great on an old LCD monitor (unfortunately I just sold one when I got rid of all my Xbox stuff).

Here are a few old pictures of my set-up when I was running coinOps through an SLG to my 4:3 LCD monitor:

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

" Neoya xbox x2vga+" that is what I need for my setup. Thanks

[Dochartaigh]

Unfortunately they are rare, and somewhat unknown to most people

I forget how many months, but I had an eBay alert setup for one of those probably for the better part of a year....zero hits, I gave up and bought the Frozen cable (which I likewise don't think they make anymore, sadly). At that point (unless luck is on your side of course better off using the easy to source YPbPr Component cables and a Component to VGA converter (that is IF you're using this on a VGA monitor and not a PVM or consumer TV which probably already has component inputs) -- I think that's basically what this little box does anyway - simply converts YPbPr to RGBHV/VGA (otherwise it would need a BIOS mod to have the Xbox output RGsB, to convert that to RGBHV).

Wasn't there a second version of this? possibly by another company which did the same thing?