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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:17 pm 


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Link83 wrote:
Extrems wrote:
Nothing to do with white levels, and v2.4c.2 did add it, but that's a closed source branch.

Ah my mistake, i've edited my post accordingly. I thought it was v2.4c that fixed the brightness issues? Or do you mean v2.4c.2 added zero-order hold?


I have v24c.2 flashed on my self-installed wiidual. Managed to flash it before the install. I believe that is what the "pixel averaging" feature turns on and off. In the situation that I am using it (with my projector), I hardly notice any difference between the two. When I do notice a difference (it's very small), I have to say it seems like it's a tiny, tiny bit sharper with interpolation "on." This is the result from my specific setup, and I let my projector handle the 480i>480p upscaling in games that have no progressive mode. I'm sure results would be different on a fancy flat panel with a high pixel density.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:11 pm 


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Errrr. So this is embarrassing, bu after finally getting an RGB cable, I have discovered that the analog output on my WiiDual isn't outputting a picture. I also have a standard composite wii cable which also gets no picture. I get audio on both cables. When outputting the composite cable to my projector, it seems to see that it's a standard 60Hz signal, but black screen. Both cables show nothing on my PVM.

Wii is set to 480i, enable 480p is "off" in GCV menu, as is linedoubler for 480i.

The HDMI output seems perectly fine. Any ideas what is wrong here?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:26 pm 



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I recall the WiiDual's analog output needs cutting either composite video or something else that only Japanese cables use for component or something of the sort.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:40 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
I recall the WiiDual's analog output needs cutting either composite video or something else that only Japanese cables use for component or something of the sort.


Oh yeah. I rewatched the install video. I removed the composite video line because I'm using that one as csync as recommended. So composite shouldn't work. That's correct then, but it doesn't explain why the RGB cable isn't working. I'll have to recheck the the bottom of the board to make sure I jumped 2 and 3 to enable that csync on that pin.

edit: 2-3 appear to be jumped correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:56 am 


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Ok, so I am able to get it working using sync on green, but that only solves things for the one RGB monitor I have that supports it.

It seems like it's obviously a sync issue here, and I thought I had that sorted out, so not sure how to proceed. I am using this cable: https://retro-access.com/collections/wi ... 4964752435

Fernan, that's the correct one, right?

It seems to work fine for sync on green, so I think I can assume that everything besides the csync line is hunky dory. If that's the case, what should I check? Citrus, have any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:04 am 



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Oh it was the D-Terminal. Those RA cables are made for the more common procedure where you get csync from the D-Terminal line rather than the composite video line, since most people would prefer to keep composite available (and most will never need to use the d-terminal inputs that only some Japanese monitors had anyway).

So you'll want to re-do that in order to use RGBS with that cable.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:22 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
Oh it was the D-Terminal. Those RA cables are made for the more common procedure where you get csync from the D-Terminal line rather than the composite video line, since most people would prefer to keep composite available (and most will never need to use the d-terminal inputs that only some Japanese monitors had anyway).

So you'll want to re-do that in order to use RGBS with that cable.


Oh behjeezus. I literally asked here about that on page 9 of this thread. :cry: I guess Lawfer and I got our wires crossed there, but that's why I was going on and on about it; I wanted to be sure that I was buying the correct cable.

So, follow-up question: If the retro access cable is the data pin 15 cable, where do you buy one for csync on composite video? Is that like a roll-your-own suggestion that citrus was making from the installation video? Seems like he wouldn't have made that particular suggestion if the cable wasn't available anywhere. Or do I have to go source connectors for that?

Last question: Do I have to reconnect anything to do the data on pin 15 cable, or do I just jump it? (ie do I have to put all the little smd caps back on the csync pads?)

Thanks,


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:51 am 



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vol.2 wrote:
So, follow-up question: If the retro access cable is the data pin 15 cable, where do you buy one for csync on composite video? Is that like a roll-your-own suggestion that citrus was making from the installation video? Seems like he wouldn't have made that particular suggestion if the cable wasn't available anywhere. Or do I have to go source connectors for that?

You could just use a standard Wii RGB SCART cable with sync on composite, and swap the colour channels inside the SCART head yourself. It would require you to supply attenuated CSYNC to composite though.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:37 am 


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Isn't it possible to open the Retro-Access cables plug and just desolder the CSYNC wire connected to the D-Terminal Pin and move it across to the Composite video pin?


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:53 am 


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Straight from Dans install page. http://dansprojects.com/wiidual_install.html


There are two signals that you can control on the WiiDual Board. CSYNC and the MODE input. MODE input is not a relevant feature at the moment but could be in the future with different firmware.
CSYNC can be routed to 3 locations.
No Where (Only Component Video and RGsB will work) - Do NOT short anything
Composite Video (Composite Video will no longer work) - SHORT PADS 2&3
Data Pin 15 (Japanese Wii's will lose d-terminal support) - SHORT PADS 1&2


There's now H and V sync available to put on data and 14, 16 on the newer boards.


Last edited by Syntax on Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:02 pm 


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Syntax wrote:
Straight from Dans install page. http://dansprojects.com/wiidual_install.html


There are two signals that you can control on the WiiDual Board. CSYNC and the MODE input. MODE input is not a relevant feature at the moment but could be in the future with different firmware.
CSYNC can be routed to 3 locations.
No Where (Only Component Video and RGsB will work) - Do NOT short anything
Composite Video (Composite Video will no longer work) - SHORT PADS 2&3
Data Pin 15 (Japanese Wii's will lose d-terminal support) - SHORT PADS 1&2


There's now H and V sync available to put on data 13 and 14 on the newer boards.


Right. I gotcha. This is exactly my understanding from the beginning. What I was fuzzy on was the cables.

I asked about before I did the mod and got bad info due to a misunderstanding.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:56 pm 


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Just been watching some video reviews of the EON GCHD Mk-II and wondered if someone could explain how it has a Wii style AV port which can support both the standard Wii Component and RGB SCART cables, but the WiiDual seems to require a custom RGB SCART cable with a different pinout? (The color channels are swapped)

The offical Wii AV port pinout is:-
R=Y
G=Pb
B=Pr

Whereas as best I can tell from this picture the WiiDual pinout is:-
R=Pr
G=Y
B=Pb

I found this old post by citrus3000psi:-
citrus3000psi wrote:
I should have read the multiout pinout better. The Component Colors vs the RGB colors do not match. So you have to choose, which cable you want to work out of the box. Either scart of component. Most users should choose scart, and just remember to plug the component cable in differently. Advanced users with soldering, can open the scart head and swap the lines. Then have a working scart and correct color match up on component.

It just seems a shame that the WiiDual apparently can't support both the standard Wii Component and RGB SCART cables without rewiring.


Last edited by Link83 on Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:52 pm 


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Link83 wrote:
It just seems a shame that the WiiDual apparently can't support both the standard Wii Component and RGB SCART cables without rewiring.

It's a limitation of the DAC, it can generate embedded syncs only on one of the three channels, which is customarily the green one for RGB or Y for YPbPr.
_________________
GCVideo releases: https://github.com/ikorb/gcvideo/releases


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:32 pm 



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Link83 wrote:
It just seems a shame that the WiiDual apparently can't support both the standard Wii Component and RGB SCART cables without rewiring.

While it won't help SCART users, RCA component cables have the benefit of having each signal broken out into separate connectors. Yes, it's inconvenient that you can't color-match the connectors like with everything else, but it can at least be worked around without modifying the cable or opening the Wii back up and rewiring the output.

Unseen wrote:
It's a limitation of the DAC, it can generate embedded syncs only on one of the three channels, which is customarily the green one for RGB or Y for YPbPr.

Can the output channels be shuffled in the firmware, so that the pinout can be rectified without bodge wires? If not, would it be feasible for a future hardware revision of the WiiDual to fix the pinout?


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:00 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
so that the pinout can be rectified without bodge wires? If not, would it be feasible for a future hardware revision of the WiiDual to fix the pinout?


You just flip the colors, there are no bodged wires? Or just buy the RA cable?

The EON MK2 has a switch that flips the colors signals around. This could be added to the WiiDual.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:21 pm 


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vol.2 wrote:
I guess Lawfer and I got our wires crossed there, but that's why I was going on and on about it; I wanted to be sure that I was buying the correct cable.


You did buy the correct cable it's just that the wiring is off, using D-Terminal2 is much better than sacrificing Composite, plus by doing that as you noticed the Retro Access cable won't work, also not only that you need to go into the GCVideo menu and select "RGB" then click "Save", I recommend using an HDMI cable if you get no picture with the analog cable and see if the issue is not in the analog settings (trying to use an RGB cable while the analog setting is on YPbPr or whatever).


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:33 pm 


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Lawfer wrote:
vol.2 wrote:
I guess Lawfer and I got our wires crossed there, but that's why I was going on and on about it; I wanted to be sure that I was buying the correct cable.


You did buy the correct cable it's just that the wiring is off, using D-Terminal2 is much better than sacrificing Composite, plus by doing that as you noticed the Retro Access cable won't work, also not only that you need to go into the GCVideo menu and select "RGB" then click "Save", I recommend using an HDMI cable if you get no picture with the analog cable and see if the issue is not in the analog settings (trying to use an RGB cable while the analog setting is on YPbPr or whatever).


I realize I worded it badly. I should have said I was looking for a cable for csync over the composite line, not a "csync cable" which could mean either one actually. Now that I already stripped the composite video, prob just leave cause I don't care that much. i'll just go in and switch it to sync on pin 15 and call it a day.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:29 pm 


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Unseen wrote:
Link83 wrote:
It just seems a shame that the WiiDual apparently can't support both the standard Wii Component and RGB SCART cables without rewiring.

It's a limitation of the DAC, it can generate embedded syncs only on one of the three channels, which is customarily the green one for RGB or Y for YPbPr.

Thanks, but doesn't embedded sync only really matter for YPbPr and RGsB? For RGBS and RGBHV output couldn't the channel order be changed in the firmware with a menu toggle option?

Also, I could be mistaken but from looking at the datasheets I think it was only the CDK3404 that could only embed the sync on one of the three channels, the ADV7125 looks to be able to embed sync on any/all channels.

citrus3000psi wrote:
The EON MK2 has a switch that flips the colors signals around. This could be added to the WiiDual.

Is that a switch which physically re-orders the signals? Or is it just a mode pin that tells the firmware to reconfigure the outputs? If its the latter could this be made into a menu option? Seems like it would be a useful option to make the WiiDual compatible with original Wii SCART cables, and even in the worst case of using the wrong cable you would just end up with mixed-up/inverted colors displayed on screen.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:47 pm 


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Link83 wrote:
Is that a switch which physically re-orders the signals? Or is it just a mode pin that tells the firmware to reconfigure the outputs? If its the latter could this be made into a menu option? Seems like it would be a useful option to make the WiiDual compatible with original Wii SCART cables, and even in the worst case of using the wrong cable you would just end up with mixed-up/inverted colors displayed on screen.


Its done on a hardware layer, not firmware.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:14 pm 



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vol.2 wrote:
Lawfer wrote:
vol.2 wrote:
I guess Lawfer and I got our wires crossed there, but that's why I was going on and on about it; I wanted to be sure that I was buying the correct cable.


You did buy the correct cable it's just that the wiring is off, using D-Terminal2 is much better than sacrificing Composite, plus by doing that as you noticed the Retro Access cable won't work, also not only that you need to go into the GCVideo menu and select "RGB" then click "Save", I recommend using an HDMI cable if you get no picture with the analog cable and see if the issue is not in the analog settings (trying to use an RGB cable while the analog setting is on YPbPr or whatever).


I realize I worded it badly. I should have said I was looking for a cable for csync over the composite line, not a "csync cable" which could mean either one actually. Now that I already stripped the composite video, prob just leave cause I don't care that much. i'll just go in and switch it to sync on pin 15 and call it a day.

It would increase part and overall cost, but why not a include a software-controlled switch on the board that would let you choose whether to output composite video or clean composite sync over the composite video line when in 15kHz modes? Default to composite video (because SCART) and then switch to clean composite sync when set in software, then always use clean composite sync when in 31kHz modes. Then you don't need to hijack unrelated D-Terminal pins.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:36 am 


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nmalinoski wrote:
It would increase part and overall cost, but why not a include a software-controlled switch on the board that would let you choose whether to output composite video or clean composite sync over the composite video line when in 15kHz modes? Default to composite video (because SCART) and then switch to clean composite sync when set in software, then always use clean composite sync when in 31kHz modes. Then you don't need to hijack unrelated D-Terminal pins.


Intriguing idea. One question is, I was under the impression that the analog out of the WiiDual was 15kHz only. Is it able to scale to 1080p over the multiout?


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:06 am 


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vol.2 wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
It would increase part and overall cost, but why not a include a software-controlled switch on the board that would let you choose whether to output composite video or clean composite sync over the composite video line when in 15kHz modes? Default to composite video (because SCART) and then switch to clean composite sync when set in software, then always use clean composite sync when in 31kHz modes. Then you don't need to hijack unrelated D-Terminal pins.


Intriguing idea. One question is, I was under the impression that the analog out of the WiiDual was 15kHz only. Is it able to scale to 1080p over the multiout?


480p.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:33 am 


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citrus3000psi wrote:
Link83 wrote:
Is that a switch which physically re-orders the signals? Or is it just a mode pin that tells the firmware to reconfigure the outputs? If its the latter could this be made into a menu option? Seems like it would be a useful option to make the WiiDual compatible with original Wii SCART cables, and even in the worst case of using the wrong cable you would just end up with mixed-up/inverted colors displayed on screen.


Its done on a hardware layer, not firmware.

So would the only option be to add a physical switch to the WiiDual to switch between SCART and Component outputs without rewiring? It just seems a shame if swappping color channels couldn't be done in firmware with a menu option (If possible I always prefer switchless mods as its less shell cutting and results in a cleaner 'stock like' finish)

Lawfer wrote:
vol.2 wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
It would increase part and overall cost, but why not a include a software-controlled switch on the board that would let you choose whether to output composite video or clean composite sync over the composite video line when in 15kHz modes? Default to composite video (because SCART) and then switch to clean composite sync when set in software, then always use clean composite sync when in 31kHz modes. Then you don't need to hijack unrelated D-Terminal pins.


Intriguing idea. One question is, I was under the impression that the analog out of the WiiDual was 15kHz only. Is it able to scale to 1080p over the multiout?


480p.

Actually if I have understood Extrems correctly using homebrew software it should be capable of 1080i:-
https://www.gc-forever.com/wiki/index.p ... 281080i.29
Only problem is there seems to be some noise in the signal which I believe requires an LPF to help remove.

I wonder if there could be a 'filter add-on' board like the one used for the N64RGBv2 and N64 Advanced:-
https://github.com/borti4938/n64rgb/tre ... ilterAddOn
It uses a THS7368 which is connected to the ADV7125 and the CPLD/FPGA so that the LPF can be toggled on/off with a menu option.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:58 am 



Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 24
Not sure if it is appropriate to post this here or not.

I just installed a WiiDual kit earlier today, and am wondering if anybody has any obvious ideas on where to look if HDMI audio and video is fine, component video is fine, but i get no component audio.

I have double checked the external route (cables, switches, upscalers) and none of that is the issue.

Edit: NVM, I undid the 5-6 pin side of the flex cable, reflowed all the pins on that side of the chip, and reattached the flex cable, now it seems to be working.


Last edited by ErebusMaligan on Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:34 am 


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Link83 wrote:
Actually if I have understood Extrems correctly using homebrew software it should be capable of 1080i:-
https://www.gc-forever.com/wiki/index.p ... 281080i.29
Only problem is there seems to be some noise in the signal which I believe requires an LPF to help remove.

I wonder if there could be a 'filter add-on' board like the one used for the N64RGBv2 and N64 Advanced:-
https://github.com/borti4938/n64rgb/tre ... ilterAddOn
It uses a THS7368 which is connected to the ADV7125 and the CPLD/FPGA so that the LPF can be toggled on/off with a menu option.

I've designed an inline VGA filter board around that very chip
Image


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:38 pm 


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From what I’ve seen, the upcoming mclassic unit from Marseille would pair really well with the Wiidual. There’s a few reports on YouTube of pre release units giving quite a noticeable image quality upgrade for 480p - less pixelation with a cleaner, sharper look. Perhaps Wii dual + mclassic might be the ultimate combination for the Wii. The main drawback is that it doesn’t do 4K, but their next unit most likely will..


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:28 pm 



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andykara2003 wrote:
There’s a few reports on YouTube of pre release units giving quite a noticeable image quality upgrade for 480p - less pixelation with a cleaner, sharper look. Perhaps Wii dual + mclassic might be the ultimate combination for the Wii.


I wouldn't bet on it. Those reports are probably comparing it to what the crappy scalers on their TVs do with 480p upscaling. For use on a flat panel, a retired pro upscaler will certainly do better with the WiiDual's 480p digital output.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:40 pm 


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It’s not just an upscaler though - it has some processing that seems to benefit some games. It seems like it’s only good for 480p at the lowest end and sub 1080p. Apparently it has less than 1ms of latency. I’m always sceptical of this kind of thing, but this one looks quite interesting. Apparently it does wonders for galaxy 1&2. Some games get a bigger bump, others not so much. There’s quite a few articles on it - here’s one:

https://venturebeat.com/2019/08/01/mcla ... lly-works/

Possible technique used:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/fxaa-for ... es.438638/


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:51 pm 


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Apologies for the double post - just to say that on further investigation I might be a bit cautious with the mclassic for Wii. By the looks of things it uses cheap tricks to produce an image that might appeal to the masses but actually introduces ringing and overblown contrast. I’ve ordered one out of curiosity, but In general I’ll probably stick to CRT for this console.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:37 pm 



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Really out there hypothetical question: is it possible to install a WiiDual mod on the WiiMini? Not like I'd ever want to, but I've always wondered if it would be straight forward to restore S-Video/Component.


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