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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:12 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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Lawfer wrote:
this is what I am going to do as the only NTSC Wii that I have is an RVL-CPU-30 that I got in 2009.

Can you transfer everything on your Wii (save data, channels, Wii Shop purchases, etc.) to another Wii? Either by flashing the NAND, or transplanting the memory chip into the 40/60 Wii.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:41 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
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citrus3000psi wrote:
That’s a really good idea. Not sure how to change constraints on the fly, Maybe I can figure it out.

I got the flex cables from pcbway

What's the pin pitch on your flex cable? What's the minimum pitch you'd feel comfortable using with pcbway?

edit: Found the info on the pcbway page, next time I'll be less lazy.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:08 pm 


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Does this fix the chroma delay problem with component video on Wii? Would love to see some comparison shots :)


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:38 pm 



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Konsolkongen wrote:
Does this fix the chroma delay problem with component video on Wii? Would love to see some comparison shots :)

I thought that was only present on the Wii U's Wii Mode.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:47 pm 


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It’s there on the regular Wii too. It could be corrected with the chroma delay option on a Lumagen VisionPro HDP as it had separate control for both the red and blue color. But weirdly enough it differed from game to game.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:55 pm 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
Does this fix the chroma delay problem with component video on Wii? Would love to see some comparison shots :)


Citrus confirmed that the Wii original output is YCbCr, then on an unmodded Wii it is converted from there to either YPbPr or Analog RGB (PAL Wii only) by the DAC, the WiiDual aims to take that YCbCr output and either output it as YCbCr or Digital RGB through the HDMI port, or as YPbPr and Analog RGB through the analog output, basically it doesn't use the Wii DAC anymore as it was apparently of pretty poor quality, think of it as some kind RGB Bypass mod like on the SNES. So if the chroma issues came from the Wii DAC it should fix it.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:00 pm 


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That sounds awesome! I hate the Wii mostly because of the crap 480p video output. I think that 240p and 480i RGB look pretty great, so a similar result in 480p would be amazing :)

How the hell did they manage to mess this up on the Wii U too? I was so excited when I bought that system that this problem would finally be resolved, but it’s just as bad :(


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:17 pm 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
How the hell did they manage to mess this up on the Wii U too?


Wii U has the same Wii hardware inside of it that you would find in a Wii, so the issues found in a regular Wii will be there as well. it's hardware backward compatibility rather than software emulation.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:26 pm 


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So it has the same video chip inside which is then being converted to HDMI and optionally opscaled to 1080p as well. That makes sense I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:36 pm 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
So it has the same video chip inside which is then being converted to HDMI and optionally opscaled to 1080p as well. That makes sense I guess.


Internally games are still rendered at 480, so the result is still not gonna be any good, basically Wii U is not a good solution to play Wii games. WiiDual is going to give the best 480i/480p as possible on a CRT and if you want the best result on an LCD/LED/OLED/Plasma, you will get video processor that upscales to your TV/Monitor native resolution for best picture.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:39 pm 


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Here's Extrems' post on the vWii mode's problems: https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1208264&sid=8961cc0f5e97281fa36ed938a11302cb#p1208264

I don't know if the chroma sampling issue also happens on the Wii, but problems 1 and 3 are certainly exclusive to the Wii U.

Link83's post below also explains that vWii indeed uses emulation, at least partially.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:49 pm 


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Lawfer wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:
So it has the same video chip inside which is then being converted to HDMI and optionally opscaled to 1080p as well. That makes sense I guess.


Internally games are still rendered at 480, so the result is still not gonna be any good, basically Wii U is not a good solution to play Wii games. WiiDual is going to give the best 480i/480p as possible on a CRT and if you want the best result on an LCD/LED/OLED/Plasma, you will get video processor that upscales to your TV/Monitor native resolution for best picture.


Yeah, I would like to run it through my OSSC and have it output in 960p. GameCube looks really, really nice this way.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:00 pm 



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Lawfer wrote:
Citrus confirmed that the Wii original output is YCbCr, then on an unmodded Wii it is converted from there to either YPbPr or Analog RGB (PAL Wii only) by the DAC, the WiiDual aims to take that YCbCr output and either output it as YCbCr or Digital RGB through the HDMI port, or as YPbPr and Analog RGB through the analog output, basically it doesn't use the Wii DAC anymore as it was apparently of pretty poor quality, think of it as some kind RGB Bypass mod like on the SNES. So if the chroma issues came from the Wii DAC it should fix it.

Awesome! Can't wait for WiiDual. Sounds like this will make the image quality crystal clear. YbPbr output for playing on a CRT, and HDMI out for lossless digital audio and recording/streaming.

bobrocks95 wrote:
Link83's post below also explains that vWii indeed uses emulation, at least partially.

That's pretty crazy. You'd think it would be 100% hardware backwards compatability like with the GameCube on the Wii. Sounds like another PS3.

Maybe in the future someone can do a Full Range RGB mod for the Wii U.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:49 am 



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excited for this, looking forward to ditching my current wii RGB setup

Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:16 pm 



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Absolutely interested in this topic, great job citrus :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 5:07 am 


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creib wrote:
excited for this, looking forward to ditching my current wii RGB setup


Tell me about it, I have my Wii into a gcompsw into a garo. I would love to get rid of both.
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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:22 am 


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@creib - Do you not get desync issues with white screens using the Extron and Wii? I believe orange808 has experienced sync issues with the Extron CVC 200 and 300 and I've seen similar problems with other converters.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:21 pm 



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bobrocks95 wrote:
Here's Extrems' post on the vWii mode's problems: https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1208264&sid=8961cc0f5e97281fa36ed938a11302cb#p1208264

I don't know if the chroma sampling issue also happens on the Wii, but problems 1 and 3 are certainly exclusive to the Wii U.

Link83's post below also explains that vWii indeed uses emulation, at least partially.

The chroma shift issue does exist on the Wii also, you can clearly see it on the Wii's home page on the options button - the blue border shifts to the right of the circle slightly. It seems to be most apparent on blue coloured things.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:42 am 



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So I just discovered wiidual. Is this gonna do dual output of both RGB and HDMI and it works on ntsc console with rgb out? :o

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:04 pm 


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Runningbo4rd wrote:
So I just discovered wiidual. Is this gonna do dual output of both RGB and HDMI and it works on ntsc console with rgb out? :o

Thanks


Yeah that's the idea.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:33 pm 



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Question from someone who's fairly ignorant about how Wii video processing works: will this be able to output 480i via component without lowering the resolution on the HDMI output? I know typically you have to switch a setting in the Wii menu to change between 480i and 480p, but maybe this will be able to bypass that?

In any case, can't wait for this to get finalized, I've been wanting something exactly like this for years!


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:11 pm 


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So, I'm still a bit confused/in the dark on this, but I'm wondering if the HDMI out will output anything higher than 480p (Line-doubling to 960p or framing it to 1080 ala DCHDMI). If it doesn't go past 480p, does anyone have good suggestions for HDMI line-doubling solutions (To use w/ the output)?


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:47 pm 


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IGChris wrote:
Question from someone who's fairly ignorant about how Wii video processing works: will this be able to output 480i via component without lowering the resolution on the HDMI output?

Technically you could set the Wii to 480i mode, grab that signal from the original component output and turn on the linedoubler in GCVideo to get sort-of-480p out of it, but this is probably not what you want because linedoubling 480i to 480p is only a method of last resort, not a proper deinterlacer.

dylanlip wrote:
So, I'm still a bit confused/in the dark on this, but I'm wondering if the HDMI out will output anything higher than 480p

It will not.

(ignoring 576p which is possible, but only with homebrew software, which in turn is unsupported)
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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:01 pm 


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480i down-conversion could be a nice feature, some people use the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle to do just that.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:34 pm 


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dylanlip wrote:
If it doesn't go past 480p, does anyone have good suggestions for HDMI line-doubling solutions (To use w/ the output)?


OSSC is a good candidate with an hdmi to vga adapter


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:52 pm 


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A good solution for 480i-only stuff might be A 960i mode, like with GS mode selector on ps2


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:26 pm 


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Holy moly, the Wii really can output Dolby Digital audio! The "Dolby Digital" logo on some Wii games was not a mistake afterall:

Image

Image

Dolby Digital logo on Wii games had me curious for years, having Dolby Digital output for an analog-only console was weird as heck since you can't even get Dolby Digital output from an analog output! This is why the PS2 and Original Xbox both had Toslink output, this was necessary to get Dolby Digital that all Original Xbox games supported and a few PS2 games supported (only during cutscenes).


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:52 pm 


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Just a guess: They're using Dolby Digital (AC-3) compression on the disc to store surround soundtracks, for some reason.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:24 pm 


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I really enjoyed Rob's (RetroRGB) review of WiiDual - he's very thorough and even though the video had problems, I could see a difference.

I'm really looking forward to getting this - the only negative is that of course being sharper everything is visibly more pixelated, a look which didn't really define that generation to me, especially as I played all that stuff on CRTs

I'm thinking that the shadow mask of my NEC XV29 should smooth this over enough to not be an issue at around 5 feet distance - and the clarity boost will be very appreciated. it seems that you get a more vibrant image as well, which is a bonus.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:32 pm 


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I agree. His video is great :)

Unfortunately the chroma shift on the Wii games is still there, and still looks really bad. But I didn’t expect this mod to be able to fix this anyway. Still a huge improvement for sure :)


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