WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

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Ikaruga11
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Lawfer wrote:this is what I am going to do as the only NTSC Wii that I have is an RVL-CPU-30 that I got in 2009.
Can you transfer everything on your Wii (save data, channels, Wii Shop purchases, etc.) to another Wii? Either by flashing the NAND, or transplanting the memory chip into the 40/60 Wii.
Woozle
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Woozle »

citrus3000psi wrote:That’s a really good idea. Not sure how to change constraints on the fly, Maybe I can figure it out.

I got the flex cables from pcbway
What's the pin pitch on your flex cable? What's the minimum pitch you'd feel comfortable using with pcbway?

edit: Found the info on the pcbway page, next time I'll be less lazy.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Konsolkongen »

Does this fix the chroma delay problem with component video on Wii? Would love to see some comparison shots :)
Ikaruga11
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Konsolkongen wrote:Does this fix the chroma delay problem with component video on Wii? Would love to see some comparison shots :)
I thought that was only present on the Wii U's Wii Mode.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Konsolkongen »

It’s there on the regular Wii too. It could be corrected with the chroma delay option on a Lumagen VisionPro HDP as it had separate control for both the red and blue color. But weirdly enough it differed from game to game.
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Lawfer
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Lawfer »

Konsolkongen wrote:Does this fix the chroma delay problem with component video on Wii? Would love to see some comparison shots :)
Citrus confirmed that the Wii original output is YCbCr, then on an unmodded Wii it is converted from there to either YPbPr or Analog RGB (PAL Wii only) by the DAC, the WiiDual aims to take that YCbCr output and either output it as YCbCr or Digital RGB through the HDMI port, or as YPbPr and Analog RGB through the analog output, basically it doesn't use the Wii DAC anymore as it was apparently of pretty poor quality, think of it as some kind RGB Bypass mod like on the SNES. So if the chroma issues came from the Wii DAC it should fix it.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Konsolkongen »

That sounds awesome! I hate the Wii mostly because of the crap 480p video output. I think that 240p and 480i RGB look pretty great, so a similar result in 480p would be amazing :)

How the hell did they manage to mess this up on the Wii U too? I was so excited when I bought that system that this problem would finally be resolved, but it’s just as bad :(
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Lawfer
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Lawfer »

Konsolkongen wrote:How the hell did they manage to mess this up on the Wii U too?
Wii U has the same Wii hardware inside of it that you would find in a Wii, so the issues found in a regular Wii will be there as well. it's hardware backward compatibility rather than software emulation.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Konsolkongen »

So it has the same video chip inside which is then being converted to HDMI and optionally opscaled to 1080p as well. That makes sense I guess.
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Lawfer
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Lawfer »

Konsolkongen wrote:So it has the same video chip inside which is then being converted to HDMI and optionally opscaled to 1080p as well. That makes sense I guess.
Internally games are still rendered at 480, so the result is still not gonna be any good, basically Wii U is not a good solution to play Wii games. WiiDual is going to give the best 480i/480p as possible on a CRT and if you want the best result on an LCD/LED/OLED/Plasma, you will get video processor that upscales to your TV/Monitor native resolution for best picture.
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bobrocks95
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by bobrocks95 »

Here's Extrems' post on the vWii mode's problems: viewtopic.php?p=1208264&sid=8961cc0f5e9 ... b#p1208264

I don't know if the chroma sampling issue also happens on the Wii, but problems 1 and 3 are certainly exclusive to the Wii U.

Link83's post below also explains that vWii indeed uses emulation, at least partially.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Konsolkongen »

Lawfer wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:So it has the same video chip inside which is then being converted to HDMI and optionally opscaled to 1080p as well. That makes sense I guess.
Internally games are still rendered at 480, so the result is still not gonna be any good, basically Wii U is not a good solution to play Wii games. WiiDual is going to give the best 480i/480p as possible on a CRT and if you want the best result on an LCD/LED/OLED/Plasma, you will get video processor that upscales to your TV/Monitor native resolution for best picture.
Yeah, I would like to run it through my OSSC and have it output in 960p. GameCube looks really, really nice this way.
Ikaruga11
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Lawfer wrote:Citrus confirmed that the Wii original output is YCbCr, then on an unmodded Wii it is converted from there to either YPbPr or Analog RGB (PAL Wii only) by the DAC, the WiiDual aims to take that YCbCr output and either output it as YCbCr or Digital RGB through the HDMI port, or as YPbPr and Analog RGB through the analog output, basically it doesn't use the Wii DAC anymore as it was apparently of pretty poor quality, think of it as some kind RGB Bypass mod like on the SNES. So if the chroma issues came from the Wii DAC it should fix it.
Awesome! Can't wait for WiiDual. Sounds like this will make the image quality crystal clear. YbPbr output for playing on a CRT, and HDMI out for lossless digital audio and recording/streaming.
bobrocks95 wrote:Link83's post below also explains that vWii indeed uses emulation, at least partially.
That's pretty crazy. You'd think it would be 100% hardware backwards compatability like with the GameCube on the Wii. Sounds like another PS3.

Maybe in the future someone can do a Full Range RGB mod for the Wii U.
creib
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by creib »

excited for this, looking forward to ditching my current wii RGB setup

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cero
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by cero »

Absolutely interested in this topic, great job citrus :shock:
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arithmaldor
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by arithmaldor »

creib wrote:excited for this, looking forward to ditching my current wii RGB setup
Tell me about it, I have my Wii into a gcompsw into a garo. I would love to get rid of both.
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Gunstar
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Gunstar »

@creib - Do you not get desync issues with white screens using the Extron and Wii? I believe orange808 has experienced sync issues with the Extron CVC 200 and 300 and I've seen similar problems with other converters.
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Xaranar »

bobrocks95 wrote:Here's Extrems' post on the vWii mode's problems: viewtopic.php?p=1208264&sid=8961cc0f5e9 ... b#p1208264

I don't know if the chroma sampling issue also happens on the Wii, but problems 1 and 3 are certainly exclusive to the Wii U.

Link83's post below also explains that vWii indeed uses emulation, at least partially.
The chroma shift issue does exist on the Wii also, you can clearly see it on the Wii's home page on the options button - the blue border shifts to the right of the circle slightly. It seems to be most apparent on blue coloured things.
Runningbo4rd
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Runningbo4rd »

So I just discovered wiidual. Is this gonna do dual output of both RGB and HDMI and it works on ntsc console with rgb out? :o

Thanks
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Lawfer
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Lawfer »

Runningbo4rd wrote:So I just discovered wiidual. Is this gonna do dual output of both RGB and HDMI and it works on ntsc console with rgb out? :o

Thanks
Yeah that's the idea.
IGChris
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by IGChris »

Question from someone who's fairly ignorant about how Wii video processing works: will this be able to output 480i via component without lowering the resolution on the HDMI output? I know typically you have to switch a setting in the Wii menu to change between 480i and 480p, but maybe this will be able to bypass that?

In any case, can't wait for this to get finalized, I've been wanting something exactly like this for years!
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dylanlip
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by dylanlip »

So, I'm still a bit confused/in the dark on this, but I'm wondering if the HDMI out will output anything higher than 480p (Line-doubling to 960p or framing it to 1080 ala DCHDMI). If it doesn't go past 480p, does anyone have good suggestions for HDMI line-doubling solutions (To use w/ the output)?
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Unseen
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Unseen »

IGChris wrote:Question from someone who's fairly ignorant about how Wii video processing works: will this be able to output 480i via component without lowering the resolution on the HDMI output?
Technically you could set the Wii to 480i mode, grab that signal from the original component output and turn on the linedoubler in GCVideo to get sort-of-480p out of it, but this is probably not what you want because linedoubling 480i to 480p is only a method of last resort, not a proper deinterlacer.
dylanlip wrote:So, I'm still a bit confused/in the dark on this, but I'm wondering if the HDMI out will output anything higher than 480p
It will not.

(ignoring 576p which is possible, but only with homebrew software, which in turn is unsupported)
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Extrems
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Extrems »

480i down-conversion could be a nice feature, some people use the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle to do just that.
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citrus3000psi
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by citrus3000psi »

dylanlip wrote:If it doesn't go past 480p, does anyone have good suggestions for HDMI line-doubling solutions (To use w/ the output)?
OSSC is a good candidate with an hdmi to vga adapter
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BazookaBen
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by BazookaBen »

A good solution for 480i-only stuff might be A 960i mode, like with GS mode selector on ps2
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Lawfer
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Lawfer »

Holy moly, the Wii really can output Dolby Digital audio! The "Dolby Digital" logo on some Wii games was not a mistake afterall:

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Image

Dolby Digital logo on Wii games had me curious for years, having Dolby Digital output for an analog-only console was weird as heck since you can't even get Dolby Digital output from an analog output! This is why the PS2 and Original Xbox both had Toslink output, this was necessary to get Dolby Digital that all Original Xbox games supported and a few PS2 games supported (only during cutscenes).
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Extrems
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Extrems »

Just a guess: They're using Dolby Digital (AC-3) compression on the disc to store surround soundtracks, for some reason.
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andykara2003
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by andykara2003 »

I really enjoyed Rob's (RetroRGB) review of WiiDual - he's very thorough and even though the video had problems, I could see a difference.

I'm really looking forward to getting this - the only negative is that of course being sharper everything is visibly more pixelated, a look which didn't really define that generation to me, especially as I played all that stuff on CRTs

I'm thinking that the shadow mask of my NEC XV29 should smooth this over enough to not be an issue at around 5 feet distance - and the clarity boost will be very appreciated. it seems that you get a more vibrant image as well, which is a bonus.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion

Post by Konsolkongen »

I agree. His video is great :)

Unfortunately the chroma shift on the Wii games is still there, and still looks really bad. But I didn’t expect this mod to be able to fix this anyway. Still a huge improvement for sure :)
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