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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:35 am 



Joined: 16 Jul 2018
Posts: 1
Hello cr4zymanz0r,
if i had a wife she had my permission to get a child from you - well, as long as you pay for it :P. No, really, that's so great. Now i can play PSX games with pSX Emulator 1.13 on my old XP Netbook WITHOUT UGLY DOTS :D. Thank you so much for creating & sharing your tool.

Example pictures taken from my good old nettbook - FF8 with and without dithering in psx emulator 1.13.

Dithering activated
Image

Dithering deactivated
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:52 pm 



Joined: 24 Jul 2018
Posts: 2
I just registered to say thanks.

The sed program worked on klonoa, so anything will work lol.

Also I compressed the bin/cue to a psp eboot and it worked perfect!. I usually play ps1 games with my psp and a component tv out. The games looked terrible with that dithering on modern tv, now they show some colour gradients, but the image looks way better :).


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:18 am 


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Anyone tried it yet on PS1 based arcade games (G-Net, ZN-2) ?
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My sales thread : 2019/07/14..MASTER.VER.


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:03 pm 


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disregard this retarded post


Last edited by maxtherabbit on Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:05 am 


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Location: Escondido, CA, USA
I should say thank you too, for the de-dither script. I've used it many times, lots of 2D games looking much improved as a result, and some 3D games benefit as well (those I've tried at least, which admittedly aren't many) - Crash Bandicoot Warped, Street Fighter EX series. I'm a big fan of all things Street Fighter, and the improvement on the EX titles, without dithering in play, is night and day. So, a hearty thank you to the developers of that script.


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:09 pm 


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NoAffinity wrote:
I should say thank you too, for the de-dither script. I've used it many times, lots of 2D games looking much improved as a result, and some 3D games benefit as well (those I've tried at least, which admittedly aren't many) - Crash Bandicoot Warped, Street Fighter EX series. I'm a big fan of all things Street Fighter, and the improvement on the EX titles, without dithering in play, is night and day. So, a hearty thank you to the developers of that script.


I would love to see some Street Fighter EX pics if you have them!


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:24 pm 


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Gunstar wrote:
I would love to see some Street Fighter EX pics if you have them!

Here's a very quick sample of comparative shots, from the tail of the fighter jet in Guile's stage. Will get some full screen shots.
Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:13 pm 


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I always thought the heavy dithering in FF9's overworld and battle sequences, looked beyond retarded...

Very interesting, this is a small bragging point for the Sega Saturn at least, haha. it's not plagued by this at least



I have an action replay that plugs in the parallel port of PS1, I'll try these codes on my japanese copy of SotN!


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:36 pm 


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Screenshots taken first from video produced by an unpatched game disk, and second from video produced by a disk patched with cr4zymanz0r's experimental PS1 dither disable patch v0.0.1. Captured from real hardware, via OSSC @ line4x.

Comparative shots from Street Fighter EX Plus Alpha:

Spoiler: show
Image
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:12 pm 


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Thanks for those great screenshots, NoAffinity! It generally looks better with perhaps only the rocks in Ryu's stage benefitting from the dithering. Love the low-poly look of the SFEX games.


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:33 pm 



Joined: 24 Jul 2018
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I continued testing and I found in Klonoa, the dithering is still present in some stages (the darker ones, simulating interiors or night time). So there are several functions activating the dithering in the game code.

I also tested 40 winks, here the sed program disabled some dithering on the textures, but it looks like there is another dithering activated over the final rendered image.

Testing Spyro the dragon 2, I didn't see any difference, the dithering is not disabled at all.

EDIT:

So it looks like Klonoa and 40 wikns have some dithering disabled because you can clearly see colour gradients on the 3d objects.

Image

Image
(Just look at the ceiling)

But there is still some dithering on top :(. It might be just the PSP itself, because I know PSP has still that dithering included in its hardware, and it might be enabled for the ps1 emulator.

Spyro 2 looks just the same, with all dithering.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:20 pm 


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I ran the script on a CDI of vagrant story and it found and altered like 55 instances of that hex string, that can't be right, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:23 pm 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
I ran the script on a CDI of vagrant story and it found and altered like 55 instances of that hex string, that can't be right, right?

It might be right. I don't recall how many it changed when I tried it on Metal Gear Solid (disc 1), but I think it was maybe 20 instances. It ran fine, it made it super ugly due to extreme color banding everywhere.

If the game runs it's probably fine, but I'm also not an expert. I'm under the impression that it depends on how the game was coded. One game might just have a blanket dither over the whole screen and changing once instance fixes it, but another game might have it where they set the dither separately for different objects/layers/etc. Granted, the patcher has already worked better than expected for the few hours I put into it. (Again, thanks to Chris Covell for figuring out the underlying information. Without it I never would've been able to make a patcher).


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:36 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 458
Very nice little script with impressive results after seeing it in action.
I tried Star Ocean on my PS2 and it works. Hopefully Valkyrie Profile works too.

Only thing I will note is that my CDR reported sector errors when verifying the disc after the burn.
Could this be because the changes made to the .bin file from the dither patch?
Game still boots and seems to play fine for few minutes I had it on. Should I try burning disc again?
(burned many other non-dither patched games, but never received this kind of error before)

Sorry, no direct capture. But easy to notice if you look at the road.

With Dither
Image

Without Dither
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:47 am 



Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 67
This came to mind when reading this thread, thought you guys might be interested...in reference to the ps1 hardware design.

"The original hardware design included dual-ported VRAM as graphics memory, but due to a shortage in parts, Sony redesigned the GPU to use SGRAM instead (which could simulate dual-porting to some extent by using two banks). At the same time the GPU was upgraded to utilize smoother shading, resulting in overall better image quality compared to earlier models, which were more prone to banding[2]; additionally, performance for transparency effects was improved, resulting in less slowdown in scenes using this effect heavily. This Rev. C hardware first appeared in late 1995 and, unlike in Japan, was not marked with a model number change in NTSC-U and PAL territories - SCPH-1001/1002 systems can have either revision, as the change happened between revisions of the PU-8 mainboard."


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:57 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 458
It really is hard to tell without direct capture because some images look no different while others do. But seems to work with VP too.

With Dither
Image

Without Dither
Image

And here is those errors I was talking about that comes up when burning PS1 games patched for no dither.
ImgBurn seems to say the errors are in the image file while verifying. Yet it still boots and plays fine on my PS2 as far as I can tell.
Anyone else encounter this? Do you think the patching process conflicts with ImgBurn for some reason?

Image


Last edited by Seraphic on Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:04 pm 


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Seraphic wrote:
It really is hard to tell without direct capture because some images look no different while others do. But seems to work with VP too.

With Dither
Image

Without Dither
Image


One of the best PS1 game ever made.


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:26 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 458
Lawfer wrote:
Seraphic wrote:
It really is hard to tell without direct capture because some images look no different while others do. But seems to work with VP too.

With Dither
Image

Without Dither
Image


One of the best PS1 game ever made.


You know it. Hoping for a true big budget Valkyrie Profile squeal announcement at TGS2018 (VPDS doesn't count).
Someday I will un-mothball my website. I really enjoyed working on it, but with the amount of hours I work these days it has just not been feasible. :cry:


Last edited by Seraphic on Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:33 pm 


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Seraphic wrote:
And here is those errors I was talking about that comes up when burning PS1 games patched for no dither.
ImgBurn seems to say the errors are in the image file while verifying. Yet it still boots and plays fine on my PS2 as far as I can tell.
Anyone else encounter this? Do you think the patching process conflicts with ImgBurn for some reason?


This is pure speculation on my part since I'm not familiar with the data structure of disc images. I'd say it's possible that there's some error checking built into the image using some checksum(s), so when the disc image gets patched the checksums will no longer match (some of?) the data on the disc. The program used to burn the image then sees this and since the data doesn't match the checksum it reports the "error" to you but continues to burn the disc. So this would probably be for it detecting corrupted data, but will also report errors due to changed data (it wouldn't know the difference between data that purposefully changed vs data that was accidentally changed due to corruption). Again, this is all educated guessing on my part based on basic data error handling so my theory might be completely correct or not applicable to these disc images at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:12 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 458
cr4zymanz0r wrote:
Seraphic wrote:
And here is those errors I was talking about that comes up when burning PS1 games patched for no dither.
ImgBurn seems to say the errors are in the image file while verifying. Yet it still boots and plays fine on my PS2 as far as I can tell.
Anyone else encounter this? Do you think the patching process conflicts with ImgBurn for some reason?


This is pure speculation on my part since I'm not familiar with the data structure of disc images. I'd say it's possible that there's some error checking built into the image using some checksum(s), so when the disc image gets patched the checksums will no longer match (some of?) the data on the disc. The program used to burn the image then sees this and since the data doesn't match the checksum it reports the "error" to you but continues to burn the disc. So this would probably be for it detecting corrupted data, but will also report errors due to changed data (it wouldn't know the difference between data that purposefully changed vs data that was accidentally changed due to corruption). Again, this is all educated guessing on my part based on basic data error handling so my theory might be completely correct or not applicable to these disc images at all.


Sounds pretty logical to me. Have not put much play time into the patched games I have tried, but they seem to work for the little time I tried them. Is v0.0.2 the latest version?
Also, does it make sense to patch every PS1 game one would play on the PS2? I really like how it looks without the dither. But guess everyone has their own tastes.
And is it possible for the patching to not be 100% successful? Thus removing dither in some parts of a game while not others.


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:40 pm 


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cr4zymanz0r wrote:
Seraphic wrote:
And here is those errors I was talking about that comes up when burning PS1 games patched for no dither.
ImgBurn seems to say the errors are in the image file while verifying. Yet it still boots and plays fine on my PS2 as far as I can tell.
Anyone else encounter this? Do you think the patching process conflicts with ImgBurn for some reason?


This is pure speculation on my part since I'm not familiar with the data structure of disc images. I'd say it's possible that there's some error checking built into the image using some checksum(s), so when the disc image gets patched the checksums will no longer match (some of?) the data on the disc. The program used to burn the image then sees this and since the data doesn't match the checksum it reports the "error" to you but continues to burn the disc. So this would probably be for it detecting corrupted data, but will also report errors due to changed data (it wouldn't know the difference between data that purposefully changed vs data that was accidentally changed due to corruption). Again, this is all educated guessing on my part based on basic data error handling so my theory might be completely correct or not applicable to these disc images at all.


Are you planning on releasing updates for your patcher? Just wondering because the current version is named "v0.0.2". Just wondering if I should wait for a better version until I start patching and burning on CD-Rs.


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:46 pm 


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I get errors too when verifying the burns with imgburn. I just disable the verification, and haven't had any problems with any of the discs I've patched and burned - probably at least 10 different titles at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:00 pm 


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For info, if you want to make a good comparison between Dither and no Dither, the game "Tail Concerto" has quite a bit of a visible dithering in some areas of the game, especially in the "Coolant" stage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qem7V4kgmA&t=3m25s

It is noticeable particulary in the frozen water areas.


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:20 pm 


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Seraphic wrote:
Sounds pretty logical to me. Have not put much play time into the patched games I have tried, but they seem to work for the little time I tried them. Is v0.0.2 the latest version?
Also, does it make sense to patch every PS1 game one would play on the PS2? I really like how it looks without the dither. But guess everyone has their own tastes.
And is it possible for the patching to not be 100% successful? Thus removing dither in some parts of a game while not others.


v0.0.2 is the latest version. When I made 0.0.1 I hadn't tested it on many games at all so I gave it some super low version number assuming I'd need to update it a lot as people ran into issues. I only had to make 0.0.2 to fix an issue with the patcher having problems with ISOs located in folders with spaces in the name.

I wouldn't think it'd make sense to patch every PS1 game since it will cause some really ugly color banding on some games with dithering disabled (Metal Gear Solid looked BAD), plus I don't necessarily think every single PS1 game will use dithering either (but I have no idea what percentage of games do or don't). I've mostly only used it for 2D games, which are lot less likely to have color banding issues with no dithering (and pretty silly to be dithered in the first place).

As far as I know the patching should be 100% successful and disable all instances of hardware based dithering (but it can't disable 'baked in' dithering such as a pre-rendered background that just so happens to have the background image itself dithered by the artist).

Lawfer wrote:
Are you planning on releasing updates for your patcher? Just wondering because the current version is named "v0.0.2". Just wondering if I should wait for a better version until I start patching and burning on CD-Rs.

I don't foresee me releasing a newer version unless someone finds a bug with this version. There's really nothing to be improved if it's working correctly, and I haven't seen anyone mentioning issues of it not disabling dithering in certain games or any other issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:58 am 


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Is it recommended to only use the patch for 2D games?


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:11 pm 


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Lawfer wrote:
Is it recommended to only use the patch for 2D games?


I wouldn't say 'only'. In my opinion you're more likely to end up with a desirable result in 2D games since hardware dithering on them is pretty silly. There can be good results on 3D games, but you more have to just try it and see. I don't think the hardware dithering really looks good on any game if you're using a high quality video signal such as RGB (probably s-video too), but it has the side effect of hiding some pretty ugly color banding on some 3D objects. Disabling it might make some 3D games look better, might make some 3D games look better with the exception of some objects, and might make some games look fugly like Metal Gear Solid :P


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:13 pm 


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cr4zymanz0r wrote:
Lawfer wrote:
Is it recommended to only use the patch for 2D games?


I wouldn't say 'only'. In my opinion you're more likely to end up with a desirable result in 2D games since hardware dithering on them is pretty silly. There can be good results on 3D games, but you more have to just try it and see. I don't think the hardware dithering really looks good on any game if you're using a high quality video signal such as RGB (probably s-video too), but it has the side effect of hiding some pretty ugly color banding on some 3D objects. Disabling it might make some 3D games look better, might make some 3D games look better with the exception of some objects, and might make some games look fugly like Metal Gear Solid :P


Thanks, think I'll just use it for 2D games then, don't feel like wasting CD-R just to try and see how each 3D game looks like without dithering.


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:25 pm 



Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 65
Oooo i have an action replay too.

i got it to restore raiden project TATE controls.

i will try this


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:14 pm 


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Lawfer wrote:
Thanks, think I'll just use it for 2D games then, don't feel like wasting CD-R just to try and see how each 3D game looks like without dithering.


I usually tested in an emulator first to get a good idea before using it on original hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: Disabling PS1 hardware dithering (better looking 2D)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:17 pm 


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cr4zymanz0r wrote:
Lawfer wrote:
Thanks, think I'll just use it for 2D games then, don't feel like wasting CD-R just to try and see how each 3D game looks like without dithering.


I usually tested in an emulator first to get a good idea before using it on original hardware.


You can do that? But I read that emulators got rid of the dithering without any patching?


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