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 Post subject: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:54 pm 


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Joined: 26 Dec 2017
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I'm looking to buy a third-party aftermarket Sega Dreamcast VGA cable, but from what I heard, most of them are of poor quality. However, I do believe there must be at least one simple VGA cable out there with decent results. I don't want to mod my system, nor spend a lot of money on the Beharbros' VGA boxes. I just want an inexpensive, well-made, long lasting VGA cable for my Dreamcast. Any suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:04 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 433
From what I've seen, you either go inexpensive, or you go well-made; there really isn't much of a middle ground.

The straight VGA cables you're going to find, like those from Tomee, are, as you said, low quality. The main problems with these are lack of shielding, which can lead to things like audio hiss and visual interference/distortion; and lack of a 15kHz/31kHz switch, which is needed to play 480i-only games (and sometimes trick them into displaying in 480p anyway).

Neither of the big names in retro cabling, Retro Access nor Retro Gaming Cables, currently have any Dreamcast products available, which I expect means they won't entertain any kind of custom Dreamcast solutions. RGC looks like they've got some kind of Dreamcast SCART cable in the works, but it wasn't clear from the product page when that would actually happen; when they get that going, they may be willing to build a cable-only VGA solution.

I know you said you don't want a VGA box, but that's really the only good solution right now. The cheapest you're going to get is the BeharBros Kuro ($50 USD shipped), paired with a halfway-decent VGA cable and either an RCA to RCA or RCA to 3.5mm stereo cable (~$15 USD shipped, if you don't have them lying around).


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:17 am 


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Joined: 30 Apr 2012
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Location: Kentucky
I can confirm from experience that the Tomee cable is garbage.

I have a retrobit VGA box currently. It's okay, audio levels being weird are the main problem I have with it. But, it looks like it's $50-60 now, and I'd definitely get a Kuro over it.

EDIT: Also just wanted to say I've wasted a lot of money over the years trying out a cheap option that I figured would be "good enough" instead of just spending a little extra for quality options up front. In the long run you always get what you pay for.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:27 am 


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Joined: 08 Mar 2015
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I also have the Kuro and am really happy with it. Having the option of 15kHz RGB at that price is pretty awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:34 am 


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Joined: 03 Jul 2014
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Location: Australia
Logan Jones wrote:
I just want an inexpensive, well-made, long lasting VGA cable for my Dreamcast.


As others have said, this is impossible. Get a beharbros box, you won't regret it. I have the toro and really happy with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:28 am 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 264
I also wanted that. A box always seemed stupid to me. Why get some expensive box with weird features I'll never need if my console natively outputs what I want? RGBHV is right there on the connector. I don't need a component box for my PS2 or a RGB box for my SNES. The Tomee cables are crap. I ended up buying a VGA cable from an eBay seller called thefoo83. Makes their own cables, looks perfect on my OSSC. Don't listen to people who say this is 'impossible'. It's just a dumb cable that outputs VGA, it's no harder than making a decent cable for any other console. Like for any other console, those 5$ Amazon China cables likely have bad shielding / connectors or miss components required, so they look terrible.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:19 pm 


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Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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Location: Italy
I have a couple of VGA cable made from thefoo.83 and can recommend it as well (no 480i support though). I'd message him on eBay and ask him to put some up for sale - he hasn't made a listing for DC VGA cables in a while. If you're in Europe, I could also sell you one of mine (just PM me).

ASDR wrote:
I also wanted that. A box always seemed stupid to me. Why get some expensive box with weird features I'll never need

It made sense because it had an S-Video output for games that didn't support VGA, which spared the trouble of swapping cables. I do agree that it's not a particularly elegant solution and a separate VGA out would have been much better.. but that would've increased manufacturing costs for the benefit of a restricted user base, and if you think they didn't even bother including $0.5 worth of components to attenuate the RGB out, you can see why they went for the breakout box. Microsoft did the same with the OG Xbox btw..


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:52 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 433
ASDR wrote:
Why get some expensive box with weird features I'll never need if my console natively outputs what I want? RGBHV is right there on the connector. I don't need a component box for my PS2 or a RGB box for my SNES.

It's been mentioned in this thread already, but the reason is increased software support, because a good chunk of games will refuse to boot with those straight VGA cables.

The only instance where you wouldn't need a breakout box is if you only ever played 480p-compatible games; which is certainly possible, but, if you're like me and want to play Bust-A-Move 4, you kinda need that 15kHz/31kHz switch to trick it into booting in 480p, otherwise the game refuses to start. (I have heard of a straight cable with a switch like this, but I haven't found any in the wild.)

I hardly think this switch is a weird feature, and it's really the only feature on the BeharBros Kuro. I completely understand if you don't need the features the Hanzo and Toro have, like scanlines (especially when used in conjunction with an OSSC) or RGB SCART output.

If you want to compare video support the Dreamcast to other consoles, the PS2's solution for ED and HD resolutions was the component cables, which were plenty capable of also supporting 240p and 480i resolutions (Dreamcast VGA isn't); and the SNES isn't even capable of 480p, as far as I know. If you want a comparable console, look at the original Xbox--it uses the same kind of mode selection (cable bridges pins to select video output type), and you need a breakout box to get digital audio.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:18 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 264
Is there a single game worth playing that does not support VGA? I checked Bust-A-Move 4, it's VGA patchable. From what I understand, 'VGA incompatible' just means the developer forgot to set a flag in the game's header (maybe they got bribed by big-SCART? :o), not that the game is actually not able to output over VGA. ODEs like GDemu can just auto patch these games. If you use burned discs, you can just patch the disc image before burning. Original discs can be fixed with a Codebreaker disc. It's just flag that tells the DC whether VGA is OK or not.

I have a GDemu installed and checked the 'Force VGA' option, so far I did not encounter a single game that doesn't work. The VGA box just seemed like extra expensive & clutter to me. I guess if you absolutely want to use original discs without anything else then you're kinda forced to have both video connections.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:03 pm 


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Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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The aformentioned guy does (or did) make VGA cables with embedded switch to trick into 480p.. and yes, a few games don't work correctly (or at all) over VGA. Not a huge deal, RetroRGB should have the details. I'm sure that Bangai-o and Last Blade 2 don't work.. maybe Gunbird 2 too. Also Lack of Love if you're into japanese oddities :)


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:34 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 264
Interesting, just got a normal cable with audio from him.

I think Bagai-o is actually 240p and Last Blade 2 would be a NeoGeo conversion, presumably also 240p. That would make sense, probably all 240p releases are be incompatible with VGA unless they have some special line-doubling support build-in. That's certainly a weakness of a VGA-only solution. I haven't checked out Lack of Love yet ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:36 pm 


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Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 2108
Location: Brooklyn NY
Another satisfied Behar customer chiming in, I have a Hanzo and it's great.

RE: Last Blade 2 - I don't think any SNK games will boot in VGA.
_________________
"Adopt the pace of nature: her secret is patience."


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:54 pm 


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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Germany
Quote:
RE: Last Blade 2 - I don't think any SNK games will boot in VGA.

Garou does work fine in both 15khz RGB and 31khz VGA, which makes it so weird, that a game like LB2, obviously very similar in its programming doesn't work over VGA.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:52 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 264
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
RE: Last Blade 2 - I don't think any SNK games will boot in VGA.

Garou does work fine in both 15khz RGB and 31khz VGA, which makes it so weird, that a game like LB2, obviously very similar in its programming doesn't work over VGA.


The SNK ports that are compatible just output standard 480p over VGA then? (I rarely ever play ports of anything)

I guess they just didn't care. Look at all the games that work perfectly with VGA but advertise themselves as VGA incompatible. Or all the PS2 games that have full progressive framebuffers and can be forced to 480p with GSM but nobody bothered to actually put a progressive option in the menu.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:31 pm 


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Joined: 26 Dec 2017
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ASDR wrote:
I also wanted that. A box always seemed stupid to me. Why get some expensive box with weird features I'll never need if my console natively outputs what I want? RGBHV is right there on the connector. I don't need a component box for my PS2 or a RGB box for my SNES. The Tomee cables are crap. I ended up buying a VGA cable from an eBay seller called thefoo83. Makes their own cables, looks perfect on my OSSC. Don't listen to people who say this is 'impossible'. It's just a dumb cable that outputs VGA, it's no harder than making a decent cable for any other console. Like for any other console, those 5$ Amazon China cables likely have bad shielding / connectors or miss components required, so they look terrible.


Thanks for the info about thefoo83. When did you get the cable? How often do they sell the cable?


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:34 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 264
Logan Jones wrote:
ASDR wrote:
I also wanted that. A box always seemed stupid to me. Why get some expensive box with weird features I'll never need if my console natively outputs what I want? RGBHV is right there on the connector. I don't need a component box for my PS2 or a RGB box for my SNES. The Tomee cables are crap. I ended up buying a VGA cable from an eBay seller called thefoo83. Makes their own cables, looks perfect on my OSSC. Don't listen to people who say this is 'impossible'. It's just a dumb cable that outputs VGA, it's no harder than making a decent cable for any other console. Like for any other console, those 5$ Amazon China cables likely have bad shielding / connectors or miss components required, so they look terrible.


Thanks for the info about thefoo83. When did you get the cable? How often do they sell the cable?


Like Xer Xian suggests, just message him. He also makes different lengths, special cables etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:05 am 


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Wow! Thanks! That's perfect!


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:08 pm 


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Joined: 09 Jul 2017
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Yeah I messaged the seller and they put two up for sale. I'll be testing it and likely selling my Akura.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:35 pm 


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Joined: 03 Dec 2015
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Location: Norway
I snagged the other one, about time I replaced the crap one I already have!


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:57 pm 


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Joined: 17 Jun 2012
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Location: UK
Happy owner of a Beharbros Toro since two weeks. The setup requires deeper surface to comfortably house the console and the box sure but if you're with a multi sync PVM like me the ability to switch between 480p and 480i over Scart is amazing :) Even better is the fact that I don't even need to set my PVM Sync setting to Internal (like for 480p from PS2 for eg) as it outputs RGBS.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:17 pm 


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Joined: 09 Apr 2014
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+1 on Beharbros I've got a Hanzo and it works well.

Retro-bit, along with their new bluetooth and wired sega DC, Saturn, and MD pads, are putting out a VGA box:

Image
Source: Segabits

There's this old VGA box from Retro-bit supposedly worked okay but the case build quality wasn't great:
Image
Maybe the new one is just this repackaged.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:37 pm 


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I'm happy to finally be able to buy a wireless DC controller that's not priced at $170, but that VGA Box reshell looking exactly like the original one by Sega has me slightly irked.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:30 pm 



Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 85
Xer Xian wrote:
that VGA Box reshell looking exactly like the original one by Sega has me slightly irked.


There's a simple reason for that. It's officially licensed by Sega. Sega gave them permission to make all of these products look like the original.

They also have bluetooth Genesis and Saturn controllers, which also makes me happy.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:51 pm 


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Joined: 17 Jun 2012
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I'm ready to throw my money at wireless DC, Saturn and Genesis controllers :twisted: Fantastic news!


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:46 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 264
I love the JP Model 2 Saturn controller so much, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I just somehow know this will feel slightly off. Like I bought some replacement rubber mats for the dpad for a somewhat worn out Saturn controller and it got so stiff that playing Battle Garegga, Dodonpachi etc. was near impossible. I'll just assume the worst and be positively surprised if they turn out like genuine Saturn pads :D


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:46 pm 


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Location: United Kingdom
I'm unsure if this guy still makes them but back in 2014 I bought one of his custom made VGA cables and the quality is excellent. I now have a Toro/XRGB-Mini setup and while the Toro is an excellent product I really dislike the length it adds to the Dreamcast console, which makes having the Dreamcast on a normal TV unit a bit tricky.

Worth a try:
https://www.facebook.com/Cabous.Dreamcast.VGA.cables/


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:30 pm 


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Joined: 03 Dec 2015
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Location: Norway
Got the VGA cable from Thefoo83 today, really cleaned up the image!
Also, turns out the issue I had with using the DC on a cheap 8220 scaler was due to the crappy cable I had used..
Guess I really should get a 480P capable CRT soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:02 pm 


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Star1 wrote:
Got the VGA cable from Thefoo83 today, really cleaned up the image!
Also, turns out the issue I had with using the DC on a cheap 8220 scaler was due to the crappy cable I had used..
Guess I really should get a 480P capable CRT soon.


Awesome! I know what I'm getting soon!


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:37 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 264
Star1 wrote:
Got the VGA cable from Thefoo83 today, really cleaned up the image!
Also, turns out the issue I had with using the DC on a cheap 8220 scaler was due to the crappy cable I had used..
Guess I really should get a 480P capable CRT soon.


Great to hear! I tried those Tomee cables first, the result was terrible.


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 Post subject: Re: Well-made Dreamcast VGA only cable
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:18 pm 


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Joined: 03 Dec 2015
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Location: Norway
Yeah, I had Tomee too. Using the upscaler helped, but this is certainly a better solution.


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