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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:36 am 


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Joined: 30 Jun 2017
Posts: 46
I'm guessing the UltraHDMI mod doesn't have this problem at all does it? Anyways I recapped just the 3.3v rail with some 100uf 10v I had laying around for curiosity, no change at all. I may order a kit to completely recap it. I'm not sure if using 100uf in place of the 68uf is ok, but I do plan on changing it back to 68uf to be safe.

If you guys find a complete fix, be sure to post about it, I'm definitely Interested in figuring it out.


Last edited by Thomas83lin on Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:47 am 


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Location: Australia
Sad news the caps didn't help.

Fitting the LDO completely cleans the horizontal noise on screen. So well in fact that it shows other artefacts.

I still have my money on poor caps around a sound chip but waiting on Mr Borti to give me some more direction.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:42 pm 


Mr Borti does not have any other suggestions atm.
Just as a final one: build an adapter PCB with an ADV7125 which sits on the resistor-array-entry to grab the digital RGB outputs and therefor replaces the R2R ladder and the THS7374. Although, a bit overkill, or?


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:28 pm 


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borti4938 wrote:
Mr Borti does not have any other suggestions atm.
Just as a final one: build an adapter PCB with an ADV7125 which sits on the resistor-array-entry to grab the digital RGB outputs and therefor replaces the R2R ladder and the THS7374. Although, a bit overkill, or?


LMAO. When will you have boards ready then?


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:56 pm 


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Syntax wrote:
Sad news the caps didn't help.

Fitting the LDO completely cleans the horizontal noise on screen. So well in fact that it shows other artefacts.

I still have my money on poor caps around a sound chip but waiting on Mr Borti to give me some more direction.
Thanks for the suggestion, I decided to order the LDO and just do that.
Using a scope, the 5v from the multi out does look a lot cleaner than the 3.3v. I can see a lot of video and audio interference on the 3.3v, even the dpad button presses causes interference. I also tried moving the mod kit from my cpu-05 to my other cpu-08 with no change at all. Reusing that fine pitch adapter was a royal pain btw :x
Imo I think its just a inherited N64 problem


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:25 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1370
The N64 uses the GPU to create sounds and music, right? That could explain increased digital noise on digital power rails.

Has anyone scoped the nature of the power rail noise?
A few ferrite beads with fitting parameters could then be installed.

Is the power supply and ground return path for the analog section (especially the R2R) short and out of reach of digital noise?


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:36 pm 


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Location: Australia
My modkit is earthed only via the ribbon cable and my analogue shielding.

I tried adding more grounds, did nothing for me, seems the shielding ground to the multi out ground is more than enough for me.

Thinking about just permanently fitting an LDO to the N64 PCB near the PSU.
The test one I fit had its ground tab cut off and didn't have adequate heat dissipation.

I could add ferrite beads but it seems the solid choice to add a LDO to the modkit, I mean pretty much every other one of Tims boards has its own LDO.

I may even make up some small 5v and 3.3v LDO clean power boards and fit them to all my RGB modded consoles to power the modboards.
Does anyone know of a multi voltage out LDO like the one in a GameGear?

One thing I was curious about was the total power draw of the N64RGB


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:35 am 


Syntax wrote:
Thinking about just permanently fitting an LDO to the N64 PCB near the PSU.


You mean something like that:
Spoiler: show
Image

-> in case the image link got currupted: Dropbox-Link


I'm quite unsure about the heat dissipation as the LDO will be directly connected to 12V. Though the current needed of the modding board is rather small in contrast to the current which can be driven by the LDO. Maybe I will move over to a smaller one if everything goes well.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:58 am 


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Why do you put a 100uf tantalum on the input line?

I just fit the ldo directly to the N64 PCB, was easy and neat.

The input leg was soldered to a pad just after the 12v input, ground main tab was soldered to the ground plane after I scraped away some of the coating.
Heat dissipation is not a concerning factor for me now.

So to sum things up with my current config.

LDO supplying 3.3v to N64RGB board
75 ohm resistors inline on all 9 data lines.
THS amp is separately powered by the N64 5v rail.

I still have these strange hazy bits on screen, dark pixel glitching, different places for different screens but always the same, I'm going to put it down to firmware as it seems like that kind of thing.

Will try to get some recordings up later but for now its in supermans elbow, above the S for select in Mario 64.

Strangely I played a patched version of banjo kazooie and it looked amazing, none of these issues, and black was nice and solid.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:21 am 


Syntax wrote:
Why do you put a 100uf tantalum on the input line?

I have looked into three manufactures of this LDO type and each one suggests another decoupling for in- and output. So to have an optional footprint does not hurt.

Syntax wrote:
The input leg was soldered to a pad just after the 12v input, ground main tab was soldered to the ground plane after I scraped away some of the coating.
Heat dissipation is not a concerning factor for me now.

So to sum things up with my current config.

LDO supplying 3.3v to N64RGB board
75 ohm resistors inline on all 9 data lines.
THS amp is separately powered by the N64 5v rail.

Heat might become an issue if you also supply the analog part with 3.3V (which one have to do with viletim kits and my N64RGBv1 if you don't want to cut traces).

The idea is to find a nice solution for already installed modding kits. Fitting a small PCB and running a new power wire is a neat and easy solution in my point of view. Also the power switch is the closest point o the PSU input to fit the LDO.

I will see how it goes and if I can also observe the strange behaviour.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:02 am 


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Here's some poor video of the issue.

Around the forearm/elbow area
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btAztirsp3M

Above the green S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab-ALhcywgE

I Need a capture card to show it really as youtube compression is worse than the actual issue lol.
But that's what it kind of looks like, buzzy compression loss in places.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:37 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1392
So I recently bought another copy of Pokémon Stadium that's in mint condition and Version 1.0 instead of Version 1.2, and hooked it up with my mint condition Monster S-Video Cables (the absolute best S-Video cable for the Nintendo 64) to my Nintendo 64, and I'm still seeing jailbars on solid black and white screens.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:42 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 160
GeneraLight wrote:
So I recently bought another copy of Pokémon Stadium that's in mint condition and Version 1.0 instead of Version 1.2, and hooked it up with my mint condition Monster S-Video Cables (the absolute best S-Video cable for the Nintendo 64) to my Nintendo 64, and I'm still seeing jailbars on solid black and white screens.


You get back from the banned camp with this gem of a post! :mrgreen:

How are you connecting your N64 via S-Video? Directly to the TV or using a scaler?


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:07 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1392
CobraKing wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:
So I recently bought another copy of Pokémon Stadium that's in mint condition and Version 1.0 instead of Version 1.2, and hooked it up with my mint condition Monster S-Video Cables (the absolute best S-Video cable for the Nintendo 64) to my Nintendo 64, and I'm still seeing jailbars on solid black and white screens.


You get back from the banned camp with this gem of a post! :mrgreen:

How are you connecting your N64 via S-Video? Directly to the TV or using a scaler?

Yeah :mrgreen:

I'm plugging my N64 via S-Video directly into a 20" Insignia CRT through the S-Video jack in the back. I'm not sure whether this is an issue with the game, my TV, or the N64 itself. But based on my tests and all the reports in this thread, it seems like an N64 hardware issue.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:42 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 160
^^^
I don't want to derail this thread but I'd start by trying a different game via S-Video on the same TV. If it persists then you want to try Composite vs. S-Video on the same TV, a different TV and finally different N64 consoles.

Start with some basic trouble shooting first and keep in mind that 'mint' condition means squat on 20 year old software/hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:14 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1392
CobraKing wrote:
^^^
I don't want to derail this thread but I'd start by trying a different game via S-Video on the same TV. If it persists then you want to try Composite vs. S-Video on the same TV, a different TV and finally different N64 consoles.

Start with some basic trouble shooting first and keep in mind that 'mint' condition means squat on 20 year old software/hardware.

I just tried Ocarina of Time, Paper Mario and Diddy Kong Racing. I only checked the introduction screens and a bit of gameplay from each, but none of them displayed any jailbars at all. All three games were sharp and crystal clear. Very strange

Perhaps this is just an issue specifically with Pokémon Stadium? I had two different revisions of Pokémon Stadium and they both displayed jailbars on pure black/white transition screens.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:21 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1074
Location: Toronto, Canada
Go back to paper mario. In the intro there's going to be a spot where most of the screen is white (movie theatre screen). Pay close attention to the white. Let us know if you see random horizontal noise in there.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:39 am 


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Well the parts just came in. Installed the 3.3ldo to the 12v rail on the power switch and used 10uf on the input and output. It completely fixed the power interference that I was getting on a few games, so thanks for that. There is still some slight non related background interference but its good enough for me 8) .

Here's a capture of the intro of SuperMan64 and Paper Mario after applying the fix. I didn't capture a before video on this exact console but it was the same as the last video I uploaded earlier in this thread showing Superman's intro.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/vx83kp3c5 ... mpress.mp4


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:18 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1074
Location: Toronto, Canada
Thomas83lin wrote:
Well the parts just came in. Installed the 3.3ldo to the 12v rail on the power switch and used 10uf on the input and output. It completely fixed the power interference that I was getting on a few games, so thanks for that. There is still some slight non related background interference but its good enough for me 8) .

Here's a capture of the intro of SuperMan64 and Paper Mario after applying the fix. I didn't capture a before video on this exact console but it was the same as the last video I uploaded earlier in this thread showing Superman's intro.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/vx83kp3c5 ... mpress.mp4


Awesome! Can you show pics of the install, or draw a back of a paper napkin diagram on how one can accomplish the same thing?


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:33 am 


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leonk wrote:
Awesome! Can you show pics of the install, or draw a back of a paper napkin diagram on how one can accomplish the same thing?

I don't mind showing pics of the install, but I was just following the instructions of Syntax and borti4938. I did use 2x 10uf 16v caps which I believe will work fine.

Sorry about the mess but here is the install Pics
https://www.mediafire.com/view/6cnj4g7a ... g7awam6c6x

I soldered the 3.3v ldo big ground tab to the power switch housing ground for ground and hopefully good heat dissipation and disconnected the mod kits original 3.3v by cutting the wire instead of cutting a trace. everything else should speak for itself.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:00 pm 


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I chose to scrape away some of the pcb protective layer on the ground and 12v line AFTER the switch up near the PSU connector.
I'm lazy and didn't feel like routing wires around that metal cage.
2x22uf tantalum capacitors used, middle leg was cut and the main tab was used as a ground to give me room between capacitor legs.
(Only the grounds are connected, it may look like + of both capacitors are touching but they are miles away from each other.)

https://i.imgur.com/amv9tiC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/UEw7A7r.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:45 am 


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Ive had the N64 with no feet sitting on a computer chair playing smash bros for 24hrs now.
The 64 is very hot underneath and so is the PSU area.

That 1amp LDO im using is still going strong. Its now powering the entire RGB board.
Its been pretty warm here too so id say LDO current draw/heat dissipation tests done.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:23 pm 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 507
Location: Sydney, Australia
borti4938 wrote:
OK, I don't have this flickering. I watched the Paper Mario intro several times.

Try this firmware build: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bfjskfwzm0wuh ... m.zip?dl=0
I'm not sure if it resolves this issue but it's at least worth trying it ;)

Otherwise please try the following: insert a series resistor into the digital line to the modding board, i.e. you need 9: 7x data, data sync and clock. The resistors should be something in between of 47ohm and 100ohm; not much less or more. They should be placed close to the modding board.

*thumbs pressed*


Low value resistors would help prevent reflections on the video data lines. The problem is they need to be installed on the source end of the ribbon cable to be effective.

The easiest way to improve the data integrity is to make the ribbon cable as short as possible.


Syntax,

If noise on the 3.3V rail is a problem (maybe the caps in your motherboard or power supply are due for replacement) then I suggest placing a resistor in series with the 3.3V rail into the N64RGB board. This makes an RC with the 100u cap on the board. Perhaps 1 or 2.2 ohms would be a good value to try.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:39 am 


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viletim wrote:

The easiest way to improve the data integrity is to make the ribbon cable as short as possible.



The cable in your install instructions is like a foot long compared to my install, so how short are we expected to make this ribbon??

I can get maybe another 10mm max.

There's obviously something going on with my board, ill recap the N64 tonight but I don't feel that's the issue.

Your install
http://etim.net.au/n64rgb/instructions- ... k_down.jpg

My install
https://imgur.com/Nfz5xE0


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:00 am 


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So I finished the recap and while I was at it cut 4cm off the length of the data cable, making it around 10cm in total.
It bends up straight off the adapter, then out the back and over the heat sink, the shortest path possible.

The static/white noise I could see on the screen has been reduced but still visible.

I left my resistors in place because they seem to be doing there job.
Without them the jumping pixels come back.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:12 pm 


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Did you recap the PSU as well? Have you tried different PSU's? (There appear to be a number of different revisions of the official N64 PSU)


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:01 pm 


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That was the first thing I did as my psu is an ebay special.

I grabbed 2 Zebra PSUs one from a Pokémon N64 one from a clear red one. All 3 performed the same.

So I didn't bother recapping the new PSU I have.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:38 pm 


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Syntax wrote:
So I finished the recap and while I was at it cut 4cm off the length of the data cable, making it around 10cm in total.
It bends up straight off the adapter, then out the back and over the heat sink, the shortest path possible.

The static/white noise I could see on the screen has been reduced but still visible.

I left my resistors in place because they seem to be doing there job.
Without them the jumping pixels come back.

Not sure if our background noise is the same, But adjusting the A/D level on the framemeister managed to get out most of my background noise. I mostly only noticed this problem in the Everdrive 64 menu.


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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:54 pm 


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If you start up superman and look at the logo screen with the dog you will notice the black background is not a solid black, its a buzzy white noise black. Like shitty composite.
Im not sure if this is firmware, game or install related but i feel its over the screen all the time for the effected title.

The brown/black bar surrounding the top and right half of
the Mario 64 select screen is buzzy. Should be solid im pretty sure.

Thing is if i go play perfect dark or banjo its perfect solid colors.

EDIT This is caused by the games dithering/AA


Last edited by Syntax on Thu May 02, 2019 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: N64 noise on solid white screen ... ??
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:30 am 


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I actually thought that superman intro was a post to be like that but I could be wrong. I tried testing that on a emu, but the emus I tested on had problems displaying the dog part for some weird reason, so I can't say for sure.

On the Mario border, that is definitely noise and I get it too.


Last edited by Thomas83lin on Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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