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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:53 pm 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 383
cr4zymanz0r wrote:
Syntax wrote:
Wouldn't want to be the guy that "Tested" these units before full production......

Cant see them making a 3rd run so when do we start the SSDS3 mod/fix thread???


I'm getting the impression their idea of testing for the RGB portion was just "does it work on a small range of equipment we tried". They were initially defensive about the 1st batch until others got their hands on it and pointed out the issues. Then they fixed the issue with mixing the analog and digital grounds in the 2nd revision and redid csync to just be standard instead of trying to get it from HVsync like they were in 1st batch. I'd almost bet money after that they just made sure they didn't see interference any longer on the games people pointed out (Bonk 3 1st level background seemed to be the standard) on their (assumingly) limited selection of equipment, which I get the impression involved no upscalers at all.

I'd also assume sound was probably a similar scenario. Probably tested it on TV speakers, didn't notice anything wrong, then called it a day. I'm not discounting the probably extreme amount of time they put into creating and testing the ODE portion, but it was like AV quality was a complete afterthought, especially when quoting neosd: "We are not going to do any more changes to the video. We can´t notice any issue with it anymore. Also, after this experience we are not going to do any device more with RGB output. I hope you understand that, Super SD System 3 video otput was NOT designed to be a high end output. It was an extra on the ODE."
If I had other options for PCE-CD ODE, I'd probably be asking for a refund. Since this is my only option, I'm going to see if some fixes can be found. I don't know the skills check the SSDS3 itself to see if it's properly set up for filtering out noise.

My current plan is to RGB mod my Core Grafx once the amp arrives and make sure that's fine by itself. After that, I'll plug the SSDS3 onto it and hope it doesn't feed much noise back to the internal RGB mod.
If it's still good at that point, I'll just get the sound output from SSDS3. I'll probably have to do some ground funky-ness like I mentioned above to get rid of (minimize?) the audio buzzing.

I'm pretty displeased that I have to fool with all this on an expensive item, but what other options do I have.


Nothing until Kevtris makes one, but that probably won't be for awhile.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:00 am 


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The way they work is very confusing to me.

They had a skype talk with Voultar who put them on the correct track for improved RGB but I'm pretty sure they never sent him a proto to sign off on ect.

If it was me id want the all clear from the guy who helped me fix the design flaws not a couple of youtubers..


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:03 am 


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Quote:
If I had other options for PCE-CD ODE, I'd probably be asking for a refund.

the Uper Grafx v2 was ACTUALLY shipped out a month ago or so. I have one here, just didn't have the time yet to try it. But of course it's nowhere as sexy as the SSDS3.

Quote:
My current plan is to RGB mod my Core Grafx once the amp arrives and make sure that's fine by itself. After that, I'll plug the SSDS3 onto it and hope it doesn't feed much noise back to the internal RGB mod.
If it's still good at that point, I'll just get the sound output from SSDS3. I'll probably have to do some ground funky-ness like I mentioned above to get rid of (minimize?) the audio buzzing.

keep us updated. Audio buzz sounds fixable. I doubt the buzz is introduced on the digital level already. It's a shame that we'll have to add fixes that like, but given the modwork we've all done (or had done) on various systems, it's something I could live with.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:28 am 


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All this noise talk had me hesitating, if I buy the SSD3 it's to save me the hassle of having to find/fix/mod the complete NEC setup I've been missing forever.

So how bad is this really? Honestly it's hard to really tell from photos.

Is it unmodded-MD2-scart-cable-bad ? or much more faint ? (the genuine MD2 scart is a noise factory, why did they choose that solution to begin ?)

I know some of us are very ocd on picture/signal quality and that's fine, but I'd like to know more in details, maybe it's small-enough for me to deal with.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:05 pm 



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Long time reader/searcher of hardware fixes on this forum, but first time poster.

I received my unit last week, I think, but haven't really had time to test too much until now.

My setup is a TG-16 -> SSDS3 -> c-sync scart cable -> OSSC (running at 4x) -> DVDO DUO (to scale to 1080p) -> Computer monitors about 3ish feet away.

I'll start out by saying I consider myself a hobbyist, and I read a lot of comments/tips/opinions on getting the best picture quality, but I'm not actually as obsessive as many people here about picture quality, so it's really hit or miss on whether specific image problems bother me. I'm also not a long-time pce/tg16 fan, having only heard of the system for the first time maybe 5-6 years ago, and only actually getting one maybe 2.5 years ago, so again i'm not necessarily as picky of exactness as I have no previous memories to measure against.

I would say the noise is definitely present on the valis 2 green background mentioned, but I had to turn scanlines off and look very closely to see it. If you turn off the LPF on the OSSC it does become considerably more noticeable, but i would never do that other than to see it. You can also see this noise in the green tree background on bonk's adventure right at the very start of 1-1. Oddly, there is no noise present in the blue sky here like you would see when using a composite video as sync cable.

Running the 240p test suite With the 4 color bars ranging from 0 to F, I also see the noise in the white and green, up to around 7, but most noticeable around 2-4 for me (granted that is going to depend a bit on your specific color/saturation/brightness type settings).

With scanlines on at 18% or even 12% I can't notice the noise at all. So meh... take that for what it's worth. I'd say the noise in general is reminiscent of the noise on the xrgb mini in certain solid colors, which actually really does bug me to the point i no longer even use mine at all, but I could never get the scanlines to look right on it, so i was using it without them when I did.

I do have a white pce and a core grafx that i rgb modded, but I could never fully get rid of the jailbars in either of them, with the white pce being considerably worse, even with the so called jailbar fix. The fix made them better, but both still have really bad jailbars in certain colors. I want to say the location of this noise in the green and white is very similar to where the jailbars appear in both of my japanese pce consoles. So maybe it is inherently a problem with the pce design that those colors generate noise in that area?

I also have a pce duo-r which I suppose I could burn a copy of valis ii and compare, and have a capture setup if anyone is interested in seeing videos or screenshot of anything in particular, but I don't have ability to do side by side video comparison as I have 0 editing knowledge.

As far as any audio buzz, I can't hear any in my setup.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:25 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
All this noise talk had me hesitating, if I buy the SSD3 it's to save me the hassle of having to find/fix/mod the complete NEC setup I've been missing forever.

So how bad is this really? Honestly it's hard to really tell from photos.

Is it unmodded-MD2-scart-cable-bad ? or much more faint ? (the genuine MD2 scart is a noise factory, why did they choose that solution to begin ?)

I know some of us are very ocd on picture/signal quality and that's fine, but I'd like to know more in details, maybe it's small-enough for me to deal with.


I'm using a Genesis 2 packapunch cable which seems to be highly regarded for quality. The severity of the issues seems to be worse on some consoles (though still not great on my best one), so I don't want to mislead you with my opinion then you happen to be potentially unlucky and have a console that makes it much worse.

Judging from what I've personally seen with my consoles, if you're playing on a CRT you probably either won't notice it or will have to squint at the screen from a few inches away. I don't have a Framemeister so I don't know how it looks on there. With the OSSC it's mixed. It's hard to notice on a lot of games from a typical living room or game room sitting distance, but seems to be the most prominent on areas that have a solid darker green color. If you're fine with only occasionally noticing the noise while you're playing I guess you'd be fine, but for me it's one of those things that once I see it I can't unsee it and it bugs the crap out of me until it's fixed :P


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:58 pm 


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Ok I see, it doesn't seem terrible at all. very likely I won't mind at all, and it woudln't be my only system with that kind of little issues anyway. ^^

ps: I play both on crt/scart and lcd/ossc my setup changing formation from time to time.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:46 pm 



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I did some further testing and thought I would post some findings. The noise is pretty much the same using the hdretrovision component cables out of the ssds3.

Using my original internal mod the noise is also present, however not as apparent, it isn't really diagonal lines so much as just distortion "clouds" for lack of a better term. Very faint though. So it seems to me that the ssds3 is just amplifying the problems inherent to the console itself.

As I said before though, if you use scanlines at all it's not visible IMO, and unless you have a solution you are already happy with for cds, i'd still heavily recommend the ssds3. I have a duo-r, but I probably won't use it from this point on.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:15 pm 


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I guess this is as good a place to ask as any : do the pc engine dur-r console rgb-modded by Doujindance on Ebay, have great picture quality? how much noise compared to most popular RGB mods and SSD3? DO they exhibit jailbars and if so, just how noticeable are they? He now uses a 7374, with a switch to disable the LPF. He also recaps the console and offers a shielded SCART cable(is it a very good cable?). He sells this at USD $310. so not exactly cheap but not that much higher than other random turbo-r consoles on ebay
I know having an ODE is better but... I'm still curious to see how his mod stacks up
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:31 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
I'm still curious to see how his mod stacks up


Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4YDXTr55-U (Voultar fixing a Doujindance modded Duo-R).
The video is self explanatory from the first few seconds.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:39 pm 


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geekmiki wrote:
Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4YDXTr55-U (Voultar fixing a Doujindance modded Duo-R).
The video is self explanatory from the first few seconds.

Thanks for the info!

Wow that's really shoddy work, I had no idea
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:51 pm 


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My Duo-R with a mickcris RGB amp (I think it's nearly the same as Voultar's, minus csync) looks amazing without a hint of any issues. If I turn off the OSSC's LPF there's minimal noise like most other consoles, and with the LPF on (default) it's crisp as can be.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:25 pm 


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cr4zymanz0r wrote:
My Duo-R with a mickcris RGB amp (I think it's nearly the same as Voultar's, minus csync) looks amazing without a hint of any issues. If I turn off the OSSC's LPF there's minimal noise like most other consoles, and with the LPF on (default) it's crisp as can be.

Awesome! I game on CRTs only, so looks like it'd look as good as it can
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:52 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Thanks for the info!

Wow that's really shoddy work, I had no idea


Doujindance was apparently very receptive to the criticisms in this video and others from the community. From what I've read, the mod work has improved very significantly as a result. I don't have any first-hand experience, however.

Back on topic - I tested the original (linear) PSU via stepdown and was still met with the same noise. I haven't noticed any difference at all between several PSUs so I don't think the issue lies there. I am waiting on a few connectors and stuff before I can RGB mod my CoreGrafx to compare that.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:05 pm 


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Not sure if this has been mentioned, but i had tried to use a composite video cable for audio output from the SSD3 and RGB from the console. Every genesis 2 composite cable i tried was wired incorrectly and had mono audio. they all had one of the rca jacks going to mono audio and the other was going to one of the stereo pins (cant remember if it was left or right). some were cables i had laying around from years ago, i tried a couple from amazon (they were advertised as stereo), and also one from console5. If anyone has found a cable that is actually stereo, can you share a link please?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:27 pm 


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I'm trying to make my way through the thread, as I now have one of these on the way.

One issue that I have is that I haven't ever done Mega Drive 2 much, so I lack any RGB cables for this. I have the Mini Framemeister as well as an OSSC, and all of my cables currently use the JPN21 format (so I use a SCART to JPN21 converter with OSSC in all cases).

I can easily pick up Mega Drive 2 cables in the EU format, but I fear that I'll eventually jack something up since it'll be an outlier. Anyone know of a good source for proper Japanese RGB cables for this?

Thanks!
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:51 am 


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Ok, my Voultar RGB amp came in today and started installing it in my Core Grafx shortly after I got home (jailbar fix had already been done previously). I got it as close as I possible could to the Hu6260 where I could still close the case. Here's the results (All taking RGB from the internal RGB amp via the DIN port on the Core Grafx):

Hucard games, no SSDS3 attached: Absolutely beautiful. Probably comparable to my Duo-R. Can't really see any flaws at all with the OSSC LPF on (default). Turning the LPF off has a typical low amount of analog video noise (I did not enable the LPF on Voultar's RGB amp since I knew the OSSC has a LPF).

Hucard games, SSDS3 attached: Looks great, don't even know if I see a difference. If there is, it's something super minor like 2%. Not really seeing the snow noise with the LPF off; maybe it looks slightly worse than with the SSDS3 detached?

Hucard games loaded via SD card, SSDS3 attached: I can kinda maaaaaybe see just a tiny bit of some minuscule interference in the dark green of the Dungeon Explorer title logo, but I have to be right next to the screen and stare intently. Basically, it's a non-issue. With the LPF off, I can now see interference that wasn't visible with real hucard games. It's not exactly snowy like before, but the best way I can think to describe it is it looks like transparent diagonal lines travelling from left to right across the screen.

CD games loaded via SD card, SSDS3 attached: Improved from before, but the green Valis 2 intro border still isn't solid green. Now the green only shows what looks like faint jailbars. While not ideal, I think it's to a level I can deal with now so far.

I didn't test many games tonight, mostly just the ones known to be the worst offenders (Dungeon Explorer, Valis 2), so I wouldn't consider the results absolutely definitive, but what I did see as mentioned above is much better.

While I am by no means any expert in analog signals (I just know what I see), here's my theory:
I believe I've heard weaker signals are more susceptible to picking up noise, so my guess is the un-amped signal goes to the PCE expansion pins to the SSDS3, even closer to whatever the source of interference is, so then once it's finally amped in their SSDS3 it's had plenty more opportunities to pick up interference (which is then also amplified). The SSDS3 definitely adding interference, but an internal RGB amp seems to help mitigate a lot of it. It'd still be nice if someone were able to figure out how to get rid of or greatly reduce the interference the SSDS3 is causing.

As for audio, I don't know yet. I don't have any practical way to hook it up this way currently unless I'm going to get creative with alligator clips. I'll need to see about getting or making a stereo audio cable for the SSDS3.

***EDIT***: Well then, I guess I'll try this out tomorrow :shock: https://twitter.com/voultar/status/980951324610170880?s=21


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:18 am 



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Quote:
Well then, I guess I'll try this out tomorrow :shock: https://twitter.com/voultar/status/9809 ... 70880?s=21


I tried this on mine just now, I'd say it lessens the noise a bit, maybe to about what I was seeing with my internal mod. Running 240p tests suite I still get a shimmer in green and white in the same ranges as before. Looking at Bonk's adventure, it seems like the diagonal line pattern is almost faded/smoothed out to where it's just noise, but barely actually diagonal lines anymore, if that makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:27 am 


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:lol:

I shouldn't laugh because I feel for the teraonion guys. that's quite an ambitious system so maybe they should have given it some more months of thorough testing with as many people to help as possible.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:55 am 



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Xyga wrote:
:lol:

I shouldn't laugh because I feel for the teraonion guys. that's quite an ambitious system so maybe they should have given it some more months of thorough testing with as many people to help as possible.


I think the ODE and flashcart part are solid products. I feel like based on their response, they should have never bothered with the video out.

They have made it very clear they considered that just a thrown in extra, but that's not how it was sold. They kind of treated that aspect as if it was some hobby project that someone is releasing to the community for free, and basically counter-criticized people for complaining too much and acting entitled. Except it wasn't something they released for free... they are charging a pretty high price for their device and talked up all the features including the video out, so paying customers have every right to point out flaws in it.

Either way, I still like the video out and think it's very good, just not perfect.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:47 am 


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ErebusMaligan wrote:
Either way, I still like the video out and think it's very good, just not perfect.


I think the video is very good, if not perfect.
Here's some shots from a Coregrafx II, PACKAPUNCH cable, OSSC to a Benq Zowie.

Image

Image

I’m not seeing the noise you guys are.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:49 am 


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That's because everyone is fixating on 2 games which have solid colors in them (and the 240p test suite of course).

Maybe, just *maybe*, people should get over this and just start playing the game instead of agonizing over test suites.

Here's one for you: start trying out as many games as you can and see in how many of them you can pick up the noise/interference during gameplay, possibly while not staying with your nose sticked to the monitor (that's bad for you sight).

At the end check which games had visibile interference in them. I'd say that if 5 out of 100 games have visibile noise, that's a pretty good result, all considered.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:30 pm 



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Reading this thread, one thing comes to mind. I don't see how this device can rid of jailbars that are inherit in the PC Engine without modding the console itself as documented by Tim Worthington a few years ago:

http://etim.net.au/av-driver/pcebars/

Doesn't matter if you use this or Voultar's RGB amp, the console must be modded!! Anyone that thinks an external device can fix an inherit flaw in how these consoles were made is mistaken.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:06 pm 


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donluca wrote:
That's because everyone is fixating on 2 games which have solid colors in them (and the 240p test suite of course).

Maybe, just *maybe*, people should get over this and just start playing the game instead of agonizing over test suites.

Here's one for you: start trying out as many games as you can and see in how many of them you can pick up the noise/interference during gameplay, possibly while not staying with your nose sticked to the monitor (that's bad for you sight).

At the end check which games had visibile interference in them. I'd say that if 5 out of 100 games have visibile noise, that's a pretty good result, all considered.


I pretty much agree with everything you're saying here. The noise is (mostly) only visible when you are actively looking for it, I can't think of a game where it has impacted my enjoyment in any meaningful way. The noise is there though, and there is nothing wrong with discussing it and letting other people know that it does exist as well as getting to the bottom of its cause (like if it really is just a console lottery situation). I think the thread has been pretty consistently peppered with people saying that the noise isn't that big of a deal and it shouldn't put you off purchasing unless you are extremely sensitive to such things.

Personally I find tinkering and modding is pretty fun and worthwhile generally. It's a good excuse to improve my skills and knowledge, so if there is a way to improve the picture then it's win/win as far as I'm concerned.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:10 pm 



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Kez wrote:
donluca wrote:
That's because everyone is fixating on 2 games which have solid colors in them (and the 240p test suite of course).

Maybe, just *maybe*, people should get over this and just start playing the game instead of agonizing over test suites.

Here's one for you: start trying out as many games as you can and see in how many of them you can pick up the noise/interference during gameplay, possibly while not staying with your nose sticked to the monitor (that's bad for you sight).

At the end check which games had visibile interference in them. I'd say that if 5 out of 100 games have visibile noise, that's a pretty good result, all considered.


I pretty much agree with everything you're saying here. The noise is (mostly) only visible when you are actively looking for it, I can't think of a game where it has impacted my enjoyment in any meaningful way. The noise is there though, and there is nothing wrong with discussing it and letting other people know that it does exist as well as getting to the bottom of its cause (like if it really is just a console lottery situation). I think the thread has been pretty consistently peppered with people saying that the noise isn't that big of a deal.

Personally I find tinkering and modding is pretty fun and worthwhile generally. It's a good excuse to improve my skills etc. so if there is a way to improve the picture then it's win/win as far as I'm concerned.


On twitter I believe they just confirmed a new board revision has been designed which will fix composite video (evidently they had a component on the board reversed which was causing the interference) and the HDRetrovision cables and some scart cables use that as sync. Pretty sure this is going to fix the problem some people are seeing.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:42 pm 



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Wolf_ wrote:

On twitter I believe they just confirmed a new board revision has been designed which will fix composite video (evidently they had a component on the board reversed which was causing the interference) and the HDRetrovision cables and some scart cables use that as sync. Pretty sure this is going to fix the problem some people are seeing.


Except they've now sent out multiple hundreds with the backwards cap and aren't doing a recall this time (most likely). Their solution is just use CSYNC instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:58 pm 



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RevQuixo wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:

On twitter I believe they just confirmed a new board revision has been designed which will fix composite video (evidently they had a component on the board reversed which was causing the interference) and the HDRetrovision cables and some scart cables use that as sync. Pretty sure this is going to fix the problem some people are seeing.


Except they've now sent out multiple hundreds with the backwards cap and aren't doing a recall this time (most likely). Their solution is just use CSYNC instead.


To be fair, csync cables are easy to come by, and even on the composite cables it is something most people will never notice, and also it is only a single component on the board that needs to be flipped so if it realllly bothers you hopefully it should be easy to fix it, heck maybe they will end up offering to do the fix.

I don't think it is right to ignore the fact that they have boards with a minor imperfection out there and hopefully they will offer a fix, but if they don't then it doesn't strike me as a dealbreaker for the product, I just will be a little miffed at the company.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:22 pm 



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Wolf_ wrote:
RevQuixo wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:

On twitter I believe they just confirmed a new board revision has been designed which will fix composite video (evidently they had a component on the board reversed which was causing the interference) and the HDRetrovision cables and some scart cables use that as sync. Pretty sure this is going to fix the problem some people are seeing.


Except they've now sent out multiple hundreds with the backwards cap and aren't doing a recall this time (most likely). Their solution is just use CSYNC instead.


To be fair, csync cables are easy to come by, and even on the composite cables it is something most people will never notice, and also it is only a single component on the board that needs to be flipped so if it realllly bothers you hopefully it should be easy to fix it, heck maybe they will end up offering to do the fix.

I don't think it is right to ignore the fact that they have boards with a minor imperfection out there and hopefully they will offer a fix, but if they don't then it doesn't strike me as a dealbreaker for the product, I just will be a little miffed at the company.


Well seeing as Alex is threatening to quit over on neo-geo.com I don't see them offering to fix this. it isn't a dealbreaker, I know a good handful of people who can swap the cap around, but no one has yet really explained what the danger is for those who choose not to (or don't know any better).


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:31 pm 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 383
RevQuixo wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:
RevQuixo wrote:
Except they've now sent out multiple hundreds with the backwards cap and aren't doing a recall this time (most likely). Their solution is just use CSYNC instead.


To be fair, csync cables are easy to come by, and even on the composite cables it is something most people will never notice, and also it is only a single component on the board that needs to be flipped so if it realllly bothers you hopefully it should be easy to fix it, heck maybe they will end up offering to do the fix.

I don't think it is right to ignore the fact that they have boards with a minor imperfection out there and hopefully they will offer a fix, but if they don't then it doesn't strike me as a dealbreaker for the product, I just will be a little miffed at the company.


Well seeing as Alex is threatening to quit over on neo-geo.com I don't see them offering to fix this. it isn't a dealbreaker, I know a good handful of people who can swap the cap around, but no one has yet really explained what the danger is for those who choose not to (or don't know any better).


Oh yea, that's a good point, I didn't even consider that leaving it in could damage the board or the console you connect it to.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:33 pm 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 1412
Location: Australia
What, you've never put a tantalum cap backwards before?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tySCg4-Q11U


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