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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:02 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 59
retro_gaming_cables wrote:
Neodev wrote:
retro_gaming_cables wrote:
Would you like one of our fully shielded MD2 CSYNC PACKAPUNCH cables for testing? I will send you this for free.

This is wired for CSYNC with a 220uF cap and 470 ohm resistor in series, and 220uF caps and 75 ohm resistors in series with the RGB lines.

Image
Image


retro_gaming_cables

Yes, we want to talk with you

Could you please send me a pm with your contact info ?

Thanks

Alex,

BTW, we were planing to contact you early today, but then we decided that it would be better to contact Voultar before, to have an exact picture of the issue.

So once we have isolated the issue we would think what kind of solution we are going to deliver.

So contacting you was on hold cause that.

And yes, we had a meeting with Voultar some hours ago


Meeting! sounds very official!



i call a meeting when more than one person meet in a place, this time was in Skype, so it fits what i call meeting


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:04 pm 



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 86
Now this is a fantastic development!


If we can get the Csync issue and video noise stuff fixed up, you will have a winner on your hands.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:05 pm 


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Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 1012
Location: Southern California
Awesome RGC! Great to have vendors communicating to fix issues like this.

I'm curious on what the process is going to be now, if Terraonion is planning on holding off shipping orders till this is fixed? Neodev, are you guys going to apply the fix to the current stock you've received then ship out the orders?

My order is way down the list I'm sure, but I would hope that when this is fixed I'd be receiving the updated version that will work with my upscalers.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:07 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 59
opt2not wrote:
Awesome RGC! Great to have vendors communicating to fix issues like this.

I'm curious on what the process is going to be now, if Terraonion is planning on holding off shipping orders till this is fixed? Neodev, are you guys going to apply the fix to the current stock you've received then ship out the orders?

My order is way down the list I'm sure, but I would hope that when this is fixed I'd be receiving the updated version that will work with my upscalers.



We still not know, Voultar gave us indications, we are going to try those.

Once we have more info, we will talk back with him, we will discuss what would be the best solution and we will let you guys know what we think we should do.

Then we will listen you again and we will apply the solution.

BUT we need time to try, think and deliver the solution.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:08 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 269
I'd very much like to play games, but quite frankly you sold us a device that doesn't fully work and wasn't properly tested. Now I'm out 270EUR and wonder if I'll get my issue solved. What I have now looks & sounds so poor that I'd never want to use it. The people here are doing the testing and analysing that you should've done before you sold it. I'm sure many of them would've given you their expert advice free of charge if you just consulted them before you finalised your design.

You keep saying that there is some big difference between US/EU. Not really. It's true that us Europeans were blessed with SCART inputs for a long time, but those days are long over. 2017 LG OLEDs even removed the component inputs here. If you want to use old consoles on a current TV, you pretty much need an OSSC/FM type device. If you want quality, you've been needing those for years as most TVs handle 240p somewhere between not-at-all and poorly (lag, bad scaling, misinterpreting it as 480i, etc.). There's nothing super outlandish about hooking up your console with a csync cable to an OSSC.

It's pretty clear that you guys are not particular into video stuff. Your product box featuring 16:9 stretched images of your 4:3 menu tells me a lot about how much you think about stuff like that :wink: I hope you got a bit of an understanding that a lot of your customer base deeply cares about these issues. If you have ten consoles all perfectly modded, cabled up and calibrated through your video processor of choice you don't want to add an 11th system that will forever be the 'bad looking one'.

I personally just wanted to play some damn Magical Chase and Military Madness. I have plenty of intellectual curiosity about the technology behind all this, but I'd rather spend my evenings playing games than debugging ground loops or staring at suspiciously wired cables.

And since you asked, I spend the 90s playing games on a PC with a high-end CRT monitor since I always hated the blurry, flickery, scanline look of consumer TVs & consoles. Only got into older systems once they started to have sharp pixels like on the box art :D Please don't kill me 90s CRT people :|


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:17 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 59
ASDR wrote:
I'd very much like to play games, but quite frankly you sold us a device that doesn't fully work and wasn't properly tested. Now I'm out 270EUR and wonder if I'll get my issue solved.



Give me your order details, i will submit you a refund. NP about that, we both will be happy.

Have we already sent your order ? if so we will pay your shipment back aswel.

I stopped reading after the quoted text, i find it insulting and totally out of place.

Alex,


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:18 pm 



Joined: 02 Nov 2014
Posts: 4
Received my Super SD System 3 yesterday (im in the UK) very disappointed to find my Retro Gaming Cables Sega Megadrive Scart cable which works perfect on my Megadrive will not sync with Super SD System 3 at all I get nothing but a flashing rolling picture on my two CRTs and two LCD TVs. Hopefully the Neo Dev guys come up with a solution soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:29 pm 


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Joined: 28 Feb 2015
Posts: 422
Location: Rome
Just wanted to throw this out there: lots of TV sets here in europe still have SCART connectors and most will happily receive 240p signals although interpreting them as 480i with varying degree of results, going from modest to straight bad.

CRT TV sets though... those were an entirely different story. There wasn't really a standard to which tv makers adhered. As such we have ample differences from TV to TV (and still have today with modern LCDs, god only knows what each producer decided to get in their sets for SCART inputs) and this is considering euro-land only.

You can't get a modern device working with wonky out of spec signals to play nice on 100% of the TVs with all the different cabling available, it would require YEARS of testing to make sure it plays ball with everything. Again, I'm telling this from a european point of view, because as soon as NTSC sets enter the ring, all hell breaks loose.

Being Spanish based, they did what every euro-based company would have done: they tested their device on as many sets (CRTs and LCDs) they could get and make sure it worked on those.

Now that the device is out in the wild, people are reporting back and we're seeing some of them showing great pictures and videos of the device working without issues while others having all kind of problems.

I feel like this was inevitable and NeoSD is doing a great job at trying to understand what's going wrong for several people and coming up with a solution.

Shouting, yelling and cursing them will do no good, quite the opposite. Reporting problems by giving them out as much info as possible is the correct way to go and a good one to get most issues sorted out soon.


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 Post subject: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:29 pm 


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Joined: 17 Jan 2016
Posts: 227
Ok, so thanks for the suggestions on getting the ossc going with this, I’m not half as bummed out as before because setting the sync level to detect pc engine seems to have no adverse affects on my other machines. it’s pretty much the default setting now apart from my mvs which has its own profile.
It’s just the bvm that won’t play ball now until a fix comes.

now I can report on some tests and hopefully inject some positivity back into this thread

The system is A-class and played all my hucard roms flawlessly.
The main event was of course the CD-ROM function so I jumped in to a few games. It’s brilliant.

Games tested
Psychic Storm
Cotton
Nexr
Strider
Valis
Image Fight 2

Everything worked very well. I only encountered 2 issues

1. Psychic Storm, one of my favourite and less known shmups streaming audio had random pops and clicks the first time I played it, like the cd had a scratch. after playing some other games flawlessly I returned to psychic Storm and the issues didn’t happen again. Very strange. I love the soundtrack for that game, pumping.

2. The only other negative was that there is some visual noise/waves in the form of some vertical lines which scroll to the right. It’s hardly noticeable but on a Blue background I spotted it. I tried to make a video but I’m not sure it really shows properly. Maybe some kind of filter in ossc might help this? I’m not sure what to tweak tho.

Overall I’m pretty stoked about this system. It’s just an update or revision or two away from being perfect. Well done


Last edited by LDigital on Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:36 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 59
LDigital wrote:
Ok, so thanks for the suggestions on getting the ossc going with this, I’m not half as bummed out as before because setting the sync level to detect pc engine seems to have no adverse affects on my other machines so it’s pretty much the default setting now apart from my mvs which has its own profile.
It’s just he bvm that won’t play ball now until a fix comes.

now I report on some tests and hopefully inject some positivity back into this thread

The system is A-class and played all my hucard roms flawlessly.
The main event was of course the CD-ROM function so I jumped in to a few games. It’s brilliant.

Games tested
Psychic Storm
Cotton
Nexr
Strider
Valis
Image Fight 2

Everything worked very well. I only encountered 2 issues

1. Psychic Storm, one of my favourite and less known shmups streaming audio had random pops and clicks the first time I played it, but after playing some others flawlessly I returned to psychic Storm and the issues didn’t happen again. Very strange. I love the soundtrack for that game

The only other negative was that there is some visual noise/waves in the form of some vertical lines which scroll to the right. It’s hardly noticeable but on a Blue background I spotted it. I tried to make a video but I’m not sure it really shows properly.

Overall I’m pretty stoked about this system. It’s just an update or revision or two away from being perfect. Well done


Thanks for the coments.

We have a totally working firmware since July and we spent all those months until the reveal polishing it to submit a perfect product since day one, we did 6 hardware revisions before we submited the final one.

We were totally confident about the device before submiting the production order.
Our mistake was the RGB side of the product and it was caused by the type of equipment we have here in Europe compared with the one you guys had in USA.

I been a gamer all my life and i first knew about the framemeister last year with NEOSD. I don´t think there are many customers here in europe with this kind of hardware, cause good CRTS are and have allways been cheap here.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:40 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 59
ASDR wrote:
I'd very much like to play games, but quite frankly you sold us a device that doesn't fully work and wasn't properly tested. Now I'm out 270EUR and wonder if I'll get my issue solved. What I have now looks & sounds so poor that I'd never want to use it.



ASDR,

i am waiting for your order number to refund you, i still don´t have it.

I am starting guessing you are here just to trash talk about us without a real order even placed. And with the intetion of rise the level of the issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:47 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 269
Neodev wrote:
ASDR wrote:
I'd very much like to play games, but quite frankly you sold us a device that doesn't fully work and wasn't properly tested. Now I'm out 270EUR and wonder if I'll get my issue solved. What I have now looks & sounds so poor that I'd never want to use it.



ASDR,

i am waiting for your order number to refund you, i still don´t have it.

I am starting guessing you are here just to trash talk about us without a real order even placed. And with the intetion of rise the level of the issue.


Alex, I apologize if I insulted you. Not sure if you believe me, but I didn't mean any attack on your person and my post doesn't read like that to me when I read it back.

I guess you didn't read most of my posts if you don't know that I actually have your device :D Is your offer for real? I'd take it then. You're right, I'd much rather play some games that argue on the internet or troubleshoot A/V issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:49 pm 



Joined: 26 Dec 2015
Posts: 59
put it on fleabay instead lol
just bundle it with a composite cable ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:49 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 59
ASDR wrote:
Neodev wrote:
ASDR wrote:
I'd very much like to play games, but quite frankly you sold us a device that doesn't fully work and wasn't properly tested. Now I'm out 270EUR and wonder if I'll get my issue solved. What I have now looks & sounds so poor that I'd never want to use it.



ASDR,

i am waiting for your order number to refund you, i still don´t have it.

I am starting guessing you are here just to trash talk about us without a real order even placed. And with the intetion of rise the level of the issue.


Alex, I apologize if I insulted you. Not sure if you believe me, but I didn't mean any attack on your person and my post doesn't read like that to me when I read it back.

I guess you didn't read most of my posts if you don't know that I actually have your device :D Is your offer for real? I'd take it then. You're right, I'd much rather play some games that argue on the internet or troubleshoot A/V issues.



Yes, the offer is real,

i want to refund you, give me your order number please.

And ofcourse i want you to send back your device back as soon as i refund you, you said you payed 270 euros so this is an UPS order and i am going to send you an ups label to cover the shipping back aswel.

Your order number please


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:50 pm 



Joined: 18 Jan 2018
Posts: 12
I purchased a few cheap scart cables to test my system.

One of them had 75 ohm resistors in line with RGB. I removed them to test and see what happened and it did make the image stable but also overly bright.

A second cable that came in today does have an image that looks pretty close to the proper brightness and does not have the wavy effect I was experiencing before.

However, The audio complaints + analysis provided earlier in this post do seem to be valid. I am hearing a buzz on both cables that becomes much louder any time you switch to the CD option in the home menu. That wouldn't be much of a problem if it only occurred in the menu though... it also happens during gameplay and is pretty harsh. While you are looking into the video issue I think the audio circuit may need to be analyzed as well.

If there is something I can add to the scart cable end to get rid of the buzz please let me know. These are pretty much cheap cables I bought to tinker with so I am open to experimenting with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:54 pm 


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Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 287
Eatitup_86 wrote:
If there is something I can add to the scart cable end to get rid of the buzz please let me know. These are pretty much cheap cables I bought to tinker with so I am open to experimenting with them.


Audio buzz is normally caused by the video signals causing interference due to lack of shielding. When I make my own AV cables I just run audio down its own separate wire to prevent buzzing.


Last edited by Kez on Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:55 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 120
Eatitup_86 wrote:
I purchased a few cheap scart cables to test my system.

One of them had 75 ohm resistors in line with RGB. I removed them to test and see what happened and it did make the image stable but also overly bright.

A second cable that came in today does have an image that looks pretty close to the proper brightness and does not have the wavy effect I was experiencing before.

However, The audio complaints + analysis provided earlier in this post do seem to be valid. I am hearing a buzz on both cables that becomes much louder any time you switch to the CD option in the home menu. That wouldn't be much of a problem if it only occurred in the menu though... it also happens during gameplay and is pretty harsh. While you are looking into the video issue I think the audio circuit may need to be analyzed as well.

If there is something I can add to the scart cable end to get rid of the buzz please let me know. These are pretty much cheap cables I bought to tinker with so I am open to experimenting with them.


Is the buzz related to screen intensity? Do you hear more buzz on an all-white screen vs. a black screen?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:56 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 269
Neodev wrote:
Yes, the offer is real,

i want to refund you, give me your order number please.

And ofcourse i want you to send back your device back as soon as i refund you, you said you payed 270 euros so this is an UPS order and i am going to send you an ups label to cover the shipping back aswel.

Your order number please


Sent a PM.

It was UPS. I treated your device carefully and the package has been safely resting in my display case. UPS does pickups for returns, right? I can send it back at the earliest opportunity UPS gives me.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:08 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 59
ASDR wrote:
Neodev wrote:
Yes, the offer is real,

i want to refund you, give me your order number please.

And ofcourse i want you to send back your device back as soon as i refund you, you said you payed 270 euros so this is an UPS order and i am going to send you an ups label to cover the shipping back aswel.

Your order number please


Sent a PM.

It was UPS. I treated your device carefully and the package has been safely resting in my display case. UPS does pickups for returns, right? I can send it back at the earliest opportunity UPS gives me.


Hello

You have been refunded and you should have an UPS email with the label, if you don´t have this email let me know so i will send you the label.

You have to call ups so they pick your packet.

I expect the device to be sent back tomorrow please.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:13 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 59
BTW, anyone wanting to be on the same list, just let me know.

I am open to refund anyone not feeling confident about getting a solution.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:18 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 269
gojira54 wrote:
put it on fleabay instead lol
just bundle it with a composite cable ;)


The only in-demand out-of-stock I ever sold was a Wii. Gave it to a friend for MRSP. I'm not a scalper! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:26 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 269
Neodev wrote:
ASDR wrote:
Neodev wrote:
Yes, the offer is real,

i want to refund you, give me your order number please.

And ofcourse i want you to send back your device back as soon as i refund you, you said you payed 270 euros so this is an UPS order and i am going to send you an ups label to cover the shipping back aswel.

Your order number please


Sent a PM.

It was UPS. I treated your device carefully and the package has been safely resting in my display case. UPS does pickups for returns, right? I can send it back at the earliest opportunity UPS gives me.


Hello

You have been refunded and you should have an UPS email with the label, if you don´t have this email let me know so i will send you the label.

You have to call ups so they pick your packet.

I expect the device to be sent back tomorrow please.

Thanks


Got it. Not sure if they do pickup on the same day, I'll just stop at a UPS-partner store tomorrow. Refund goes to the same CC?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:28 pm 



Joined: 18 Jan 2018
Posts: 12
SavagePencil wrote:
Eatitup_86 wrote:
I purchased a few cheap scart cables to test my system.

One of them had 75 ohm resistors in line with RGB. I removed them to test and see what happened and it did make the image stable but also overly bright.

A second cable that came in today does have an image that looks pretty close to the proper brightness and does not have the wavy effect I was experiencing before.

However, The audio complaints + analysis provided earlier in this post do seem to be valid. I am hearing a buzz on both cables that becomes much louder any time you switch to the CD option in the home menu. That wouldn't be much of a problem if it only occurred in the menu though... it also happens during gameplay and is pretty harsh. While you are looking into the video issue I think the audio circuit may need to be analyzed as well.

If there is something I can add to the scart cable end to get rid of the buzz please let me know. These are pretty much cheap cables I bought to tinker with so I am open to experimenting with them.


Is the buzz related to screen intensity? Do you hear more buzz on an all-white screen vs. a black screen?


Yep a white screen does have much more buzz than the others.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:28 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 59
ASDR wrote:

Got it. Not sure if they do pickup on the same day, I'll just stop at a UPS-partner store tomorrow. Refund goes to the same CC?


Yes, i have already submited it over the payment system

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:32 pm 


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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11337
Location: Germany
despite any hiccups I can't wait to get it. What's the shipping schedule right now? I placed an order on day1, but had to resort to a wire, which you got right after the launch weekend. No shipping confirmation yet...


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:43 pm 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 959
Location: Australia
Eatitup_86 wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:
Eatitup_86 wrote:
I purchased a few cheap scart cables to test my system.

One of them had 75 ohm resistors in line with RGB. I removed them to test and see what happened and it did make the image stable but also overly bright.

A second cable that came in today does have an image that looks pretty close to the proper brightness and does not have the wavy effect I was experiencing before.

However, The audio complaints + analysis provided earlier in this post do seem to be valid. I am hearing a buzz on both cables that becomes much louder any time you switch to the CD option in the home menu. That wouldn't be much of a problem if it only occurred in the menu though... it also happens during gameplay and is pretty harsh. While you are looking into the video issue I think the audio circuit may need to be analyzed as well.

If there is something I can add to the scart cable end to get rid of the buzz please let me know. These are pretty much cheap cables I bought to tinker with so I am open to experimenting with them.


Is the buzz related to screen intensity? Do you hear more buzz on an all-white screen vs. a black screen?


Yep a white screen does have much more buzz than the others.


The audio capture was done back to back with the same cable. Its not a cable issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:23 am 


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Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Posts: 869
There is some valid criticism in this thread, but please let's keep this civil. I've removed some of the more inflammatory posts. Neosd has offered refunds, so if you would like to pursue that please continue to communicate with him.

And yes, if you'd like to offer constructive solutions please do so!

Thanks,
Frenetic
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:39 am 



Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 68
Fudoh wrote:
despite any hiccups I can't wait to get it. What's the shipping schedule right now? I placed an order on day1, but had to resort to a wire, which you got right after the launch weekend. No shipping confirmation yet...


I'm enjoying the hell out of mine, it plays anything you throw at it. It's weird seeing the Arcade card titles load so quickly, it completely skips the countdown in Fatal Fury Special and MAD Stalker loads in about 1/4 of the time. Intros and cut scenes load almost instantly, you have to think this is how the original dev teams would have preferred their games to be experienced.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:41 am 



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 86
Frenetic wrote:
There are some valid criticism in this thread, but please let's keep this civil. I've removed some of the more inflammatory posts. Neosd has offered refunds, so if you would like to pursue that please continue to communicate with him.

And yes, if you'd like to offer constructive solutions please do so!

Thanks,
Frenetic
Forum moderator



Thank you!

It was getting extremely nasty in here.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:13 am 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 269
Neodev wrote:
ASDR wrote:

Got it. Not sure if they do pickup on the same day, I'll just stop at a UPS-partner store tomorrow. Refund goes to the same CC?


Yes, i have already submited it over the payment system

Thanks


Ok, cool!

I just realized, I now have no reason to ever read ng.com again, I feel like I've been given a gift :D

I'll be going now, best of luck to you all!


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