Super SD System 3

[Milspex]

Don't get me wrong I do understand that it is very time consuming and I appreciate it very much.

But I would really consider it for your future plans, especially when your product range is going to grow.

[Neodev]

I haven't tested one personally yet, but I'd like to point out / suggest a few things:

- The NeoDev team was really responsive to launch issues with their NeoSD. Hopefully they'll be as responsive to this, but we need to be a little patient.

- I strongly recommend modifying the SSD3, NOT the cable. They claimed they designed a device for use with Genesis RGB SCART cables, so that's where the adjustments need to be made. The only exception to this would be if you plan on ONLY using that cable on this device...but even then, there's always the chance someone will plug the cable into a Genesis.

- Leave the drama on the NG forum. They've created a culture where that's not only okay, but expected. Shmups has not. Let's keep it that way.

Bob,

You know we already discussed this a lot before launch SSDS3, my own personal idea is there is no perfect solution.

You suggested us to change to MD1 connector and i understand your point, but there are other things related to the design that made this change not a good idea, such as the height of the connector that would increase the shells height aswel.

We love to talk with anyone, and we are the ones that allways listen, we never sit in a higher place thinking others are wrong. We listen, we are open minded people.




Backing to the topic :

Why are we having this "issue" ? mostly cause we are euro guys and our equipment is really different than the one you usa guys are used to have/work with.

So, what are we going to do ? listen, and think.

My own opinion about this is : the ones that have such equipment, should have no issue while doing custom cables to get the "issue" solved. Pcengines lack of rgb output, so the ones having such equipment had to mod theyr consoles and this is far much more than make a cable.

Lets put things on the table, this is an issue that gets fixed with a 8usd cable (correct me if i am wrong), not the end of the world, or something to start a drama from it.

Just relativize things. We all know the issue as today, you guys know much more than us about the custom video hardware you are using. Lets find a solution.

Don´t waste our time telling the same thing all over again, lets move forward

So i just ask for patience, we have to think and see whats the

[Neodev]

Don't get me wrong I do understand that it is very time consuming and I appreciate it very much.

But I would really consider it for your future plans, especially when your product range is going to grow.

We have been considering this for the last months, and i myself told Rot this may happen aswel. But as today i can´t tell when this will happen or if its going to happen at all.

What we want is a neutral place to talk with our customers and with other people that don´t have our products but are interested about talking with us.
For this to happen, respect is needed cause one gets tired about working all day long and being at 23:00 as now, reading people criticizing without respect.

Criticizing is totally right, this is how things get improved, but doing it from an open minded position and with respect, helps a lot to be listened.

Alex,

[Milspex]

it is feedback / suggestion, not a critique. But I certainly understand your point.

[tusecsy]

The association with ng.com makes me not want the product as much so I doubt that is what they want for their customer base or future plans.

And in all fairness, it really isn't that hard to put up a simple support forum to announce products and answer questions.

Much less work than having to switch between different forums and much more customer friendly.

Still, I really hope they can get these problems sorted out soon as I really appreciate all the work they put into it.

Ok guys,

I think you all are going far beyong with this NG.com stuff ...

When we released NEOSD we registered in NG.com to answer some users (same thing we did here, to answer you, guys)
It happened that we found in NG.com a place where to answer our customers, the same way we are doing here.

Do we like people at NG.com ? we like some, we don´t like others, just the same as in life. NG.com is not our home, they gave us a place there and we are pleased to be able to use this place to comunicate with our users. They have our infinite gratitude for that.

We are listening here and there, and at elotrolado.net aswel (spanish forums)

I myself think that having respect for others helps while comunicating/solving issues and so.

So there is one thing i would like to ask here : why don´t you guys keep giving us suggestions, hints, improvements ideas .... instead of opening the drama/hate box ?

My own experience says that drama/hating comes to nowhere. And respect helps to improve things.

This is a humble post. Please, consider thinking about that with an open mind.
Our goal is to please everyone (or atleast try it), thats why we are here, answering, listening ...

BTW, this is Alex using neodev´s account

Wait, so you stand by being on the most racist/homophobic/toxic site in all of gaming, and then have the balls to say "having respect for others helps while communicating". Talk about being a hypocrite.

Who the hell cares if you're on a spanish speaking site? What percentage of your customer base do you think this encompasses? Why not just answer questions here? Oh that's right, because your ego won't let you accept that you screwed up your product from the get go. And the morons who run n-g appease this ego.

The answer to your problem is simple, make your product the way Voultar (the god in this realm) tells you to. And get off neo-geo.com completely if you wanna have any semblence of respect for your customers. The fact that you didn't test this thing at all with the two major cable retailers and instead just decided to wing it, says a lot about how you run your business and the products you produce. I also refuse to believe you tested this thing with any csync cables whatsoever. The ra and rgc cables work perfectly with dbgrafxboostr and megadrives 2, and pretty much everything else. Why don't they work with your product? It is YOUR fault, period. Fix it.

I even saw you guys go after bob from retrorgb because he "supports darksoft". Ya, he supports the guy who makes vastly superior products than you that actually work. Shocker!

You are losing sales by the hour thanks to all this, I hope you realize this.

[RGB0b]

Alex, you clearly have a problem with me and that's fine...but I posted here to defend you and your products, not say anything negative.

I know what it's like to work all day, 7-days a week; It's really stressful and it's easy to get angry. You're doing a great job handing this and I'm sure you'll work through it. Heck, if you need someone to vent your anger to, go right ahead and send it my way if it makes you feel better, but it's not going to change the fact that I'm a fan of your work and I think the SSD3 is gonna be awesome. I'll help test any way I can and once someone around NYC gets one, I'll work on it in person.

[SavagePencil]

Trying to think positively (as I just ordered one of these yesterday), what options are available to you for this problem?

Can this be solved thru software, or is it strictly a hardware issue?

[Neodev]

it is feedback / suggestion, not a critique. But I certainly understand your point.

Correct, and i am not trying to stop people talking about the "issue", i just want to focus on suggesting ways to get this solved.

There is no way we can take the best solution/decission about this issue, if we don´t listen you all.

We need to know how you guys want to get this fixed, whats your desired solution ? You guys know pretty well the issue and i can´t believe no one has suggested anything so far.

From our side, we have ordered more cables to try to reproduce the issue here with our hardware, cause we tried csync with our european tvs and it was working fine, so we need to understand whats happening, why it worked at our setup and why its not working at yours.

Alex,

[Neodev]

Alex, you clearly have a problem with me and that's fine...but I posted here to defend you and your products, not say anything negative.

I know what it's like to work all day, 7-days a week; It's really stressful and it's easy to get angry. You're doing a great job handing this and I'm sure you'll work through it. Heck, if you need someone to vent your anger to, go right ahead and send it my way if it makes you feel better, but it's not going to change the fact that I'm a fan of your work and I think the SSD3 is gonna be awesome. I'll help test any way I can and once someone around NYC gets one, I'll work on it in person.

Bob, i was tryping this message and i though there was a possiblity you understand it bad, cause the "lost in translation".

Honestly, i don´t have an issue with you. If i would have it, you would know it, you know i am direct guy and i would have told you that, here or by email. I have been totally clear with what i think about some things while writing you by email, i am not the guy that thinks one thing and types the other ...

Believe me, its all ok or i would told you that as i did in the past.

I know your message was positive, i was trying to state that we listened you and others before take the final decision about SSDS3 rgb issue before launch ... This was the goal of my answer

Alex,

[FriendofSonic]

I would be curious how the 8 dollar cable from Amazon is wired. Yes, a lot of NG switched to it but does it work because it's wired as composite sync? If it is Csync, it's very interesting to try to understand why that one works and not the other ones from major manufacturers

[Neodev]

Trying to think positively (as I just ordered one of these yesterday), what options are available to you for this problem?

Can this be solved thru software, or is it strictly a hardware issue?

I am the operations guy, neodev is the teach leader guy.

When we have an issue, he analyzes it, he tells me about and we both think in whats the better way to fix it.
This is still on analysys stage (we have bought more cables and we have to think about it)

My own opinion about hardware revisions is : i am not a fan about do those, so there are high chances that this will never happen. I mean, from what i know about this issue as today, this can be solved with a cable. If this is correct, i am of the opinion about not changing hardware design just for one thing : i don´t like users with A hardware and users with B hardware.



BTW, neodev told me he let there ways to make changes on the csync swapping resitors, so this could be an option aswel.


Alex,

[tusecsy]

Don't get me wrong I do understand that it is very time consuming and I appreciate it very much.

But I would really consider it for your future plans, especially when your product range is going to grow.

We have been considering this for the last months, and i myself told Rot this may happen aswel. But as today i can´t tell when this will happen or if its going to happen at all.

What we want is a neutral place to talk with our customers and with other people that don´t have our products but are interested about talking with us.
For this to happen, respect is needed cause one gets tired about working all day long and being at 23:00 as now, reading people criticizing without respect.

Criticizing is totally right, this is how things get improved, but doing it from an open minded position and with respect, helps a lot to be listened.

Alex,

Are you blind? You're on the right forum, just do things here and cut all ties with n-g. You were told months ago how to fix this problem (again, read Voultar's post and contact him), but you instead just ignore it claiming bla bla we work hard bla bla. And people don't work hard for the 300$ they spent on your non-working product?

There is no 8$ csync cable that's anything but unshielded trash. Stop blaming some european standard, retrogamingcables.co.uk makes some of the best cables and they are based in europe. You're either lying or you don't know the difference between sync on composite (garbage) and csync.

[cr4zymanz0r]

[tusecsy]

You mean the cables that work perfectly with every other md2 connector ever made? Those cables are the problem? LOL gtfo of here n-g trash.

[Neodev]

Don't get me wrong I do understand that it is very time consuming and I appreciate it very much.

But I would really consider it for your future plans, especially when your product range is going to grow.

We have been considering this for the last months, and i myself told Rot this may happen aswel. But as today i can´t tell when this will happen or if its going to happen at all.

What we want is a neutral place to talk with our customers and with other people that don´t have our products but are interested about talking with us.
For this to happen, respect is needed cause one gets tired about working all day long and being at 23:00 as now, reading people criticizing without respect.

Criticizing is totally right, this is how things get improved, but doing it from an open minded position and with respect, helps a lot to be listened.

Alex,

Are you blind? You're on the right forum, just do things here and cut all ties with n-g. You were told months ago how to fix this problem (again, read Voultar's post and contact him), but you instead just ignore it claiming bla bla we work hard bla bla. And people don't work hard for the 300$ they spent on your non-working product?

There is no 8$ csync cable that's anything but unshielded trash. Stop blaming some european standard, retrogamingcables.co.uk makes some of the best cables and they are based in europe. You're either lying or you don't know the difference between sync on composite (garbage) and csync.

Great post,

I have no words to tell how much this helps to get the issue fixed.
Keep the good work, you are closer to get it fixed. Just two more "you are an idiot" posts, and its fixed.

[cr4zymanz0r]

You mean the cables that work perfectly with every other md2 connector ever made? Those cables are the problem? LOL gtfo of here n-g trash.

lol, I'm mostly only on these forums. I just hate SCART viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52476

[Kez]

I do think we need a little perspective here, csync not working is frustrating but not a total dealbreaker. The device still offers an unprecedented featureset. I totally sympathize with people who were excited to receive their device today and discover they cannot use it, but even if the SSDS3 never produces csync (which is unlikely), it is still an amazing product.

Here are some things to bear in mind:

- if you are expecting one soon and want to use its RGB out, make sure you have an MD/genesis 2 cable wired for composite video as sync.
- if you have an existing RGB mod on your PC engine, you can use that and take CD audio from the SSDS3 (a standard genesis composite cable would work for that).
- this $8 cable everyone is talking about isn't the only solution, I'm sure the devs or the community will figure out exactly what works soon enough and the cables will be available from the usual places

does it work because it's wired as composite sync?

The cable almost certainly uses composite video as sync

[Syntax]

Dear god your still having cable issues? Lol.
Seen this coming a mile away and decided to wait till the poor pioneers found all the faults and a revised run was made.

Having rebuilt csync was is a deal maker for some, as normal csync has the jitters..

[Neodev]

This is all pretty simple.

If you want to drive video directly through Genesis II cables and avoid all of this attenuation headache. Take care of business right off of the 6260 outputs and couple the video into your 6dB driver. Keep the impedance low. The outputs will take care of themselves. Drive the outputs into whatever cable you want.

Since you're too dumb to read this thread?

Maybe you'd listen if I called you a ret**d or a fa**t? Like your favorite site?

I am the operations guy, neodev is the teach leader guy.

Its geat to trash talk about NG.com while acting this way.

Great, i have no words ...

[Arasoi]

.

[Voultar]

This is all pretty simple.

If you want to drive video directly through Genesis II cables and avoid all of this attenuation headache. Take care of business right off of the 6260 outputs and couple the video into your 6dB driver. Keep the impedance low. The outputs will take care of themselves. Drive the outputs into whatever cable you want.

Since you're too dumb to read this thread?

Maybe you'd listen if I called you a ret**d or a fa**t? Like your favorite site?

Viletim caught a goof up in my model there.

The PC engine's video chip has a PNP + high impedance output. An resistor attenuator connected to it would load the signal. It's better to attenuate on the amplifier output.

You're right, Tim. That's my mistake. Ste of Rectalvision did a bunch of research on this a while back and got some data out of the DAC. I know that I put 8 or 9 different loads on those and did some observations on the actual behavior, from 1K all the way to 13K.

If you load the outputs with around 10K, it's perfectly fine.




^ Put a 10K load on it, and she'll sing beautifully.

[Neodev]

This is all pretty simple.

If you want to drive video directly through Genesis II cables and avoid all of this attenuation headache. Take care of business right off of the 6260 outputs and couple the video into your 6dB driver. Keep the impedance low. The outputs will take care of themselves. Drive the outputs into whatever cable you want.

Since you're too dumb to read this thread?

Maybe you'd listen if I called you a ret**d or a fa**t? Like your favorite site?

Viletim caught a goof up in my model there.

The PC engine's video chip has a PNP + high impedance output. An resistor attenuator connected to it would load the signal. It's better to attenuate on the amplifier output.

You're right, Tim. That's my mistake. Ste of Rectalvision did a bunch of research on this a while back and got some data out of the DAC. I know that I put 8 or 9 different loads on those and did some observations on the actual behavior, from 1K all the way to 13K.

If you load the outputs with around 10K, it's perfectly fine.




^ Put a 10K load on it, and she'll sing beautifully.

Voultar,

Thanks for the details, neodev (real one), will look at this tomorrow and i am sure he will be pleased to talk with yout about that (he is sleeping now)

This is far beyong my knowleage and i am going to sleep now, not my best wish to read more insults at 00:12 am, i think i got enought for today.

Alex,

[tusecsy]

So there's your answer neo-dev. Explain why you won't do it that way (the correct way)?

Incoming nonsense about long hours and 8$ cables and various personal jabs...

Fix your product and stop blaming cables. Sync on composite is trash, nobody wants it. People use Rene's dbgrafxboostr for a reason. Do it correctly on your 300$ product...

You could've talked to voultar and viletim and crew a month ago when you said "thanks for letting us know so we can fix it before the product is released!", and then proceed to not even test the thing with a single csync cable, all while badmouthing every respected member of the community on the worst site in it.

[Neodev]

So there's your answer neo-dev. Explain why you won't do it that way (the correct way)?

Incoming nonsense about long hours and 8$ cables and various personal jabs...

Fix your product and stop blaming cables. Sync on composite is trash, nobody wants it. People use Rene's dbgrafxboostr for a reason. Do it correctly on your 300$ product...

You could've talked to voultar and viletim and crew a month ago when you said "thanks for letting us know so we can fix it before the product is released!"...and then proceed to not even test the thing with a single csync cable...

i hope you are getting payed for this alteast, so much effort can´t be for free.

besh wishes to you

[tusecsy]

So there's your answer neo-dev. Explain why you won't do it that way (the correct way)?

Incoming nonsense about long hours and 8$ cables and various personal jabs...

Fix your product and stop blaming cables. Sync on composite is trash, nobody wants it. People use Rene's dbgrafxboostr for a reason. Do it correctly on your 300$ product...

You could've talked to voultar and viletim and crew a month ago when you said "thanks for letting us know so we can fix it before the product is released!"...and then proceed to not even test the thing with a single csync cable...

i hope you are getting payed for this alteast, so much effort can´t be for free.

besh wishes to you

You mean like the effort it would've taken to plug a csync cable in and test your product? 16 people working there and not a single person thought to do this?

Every single person who has received your product is claiming problems with it. And you refuse to change the hardware! SMH

[Neodev]

So there's your answer neo-dev. Explain why you won't do it that way (the correct way)?

Incoming nonsense about long hours and 8$ cables and various personal jabs...

Fix your product and stop blaming cables. Sync on composite is trash, nobody wants it. People use Rene's dbgrafxboostr for a reason. Do it correctly on your 300$ product...

You could've talked to voultar and viletim and crew a month ago when you said "thanks for letting us know so we can fix it before the product is released!"...and then proceed to not even test the thing with a single csync cable...

i hope you are getting payed for this alteast, so much effort can´t be for free.

besh wishes to you

You mean like the effort it would've taken to plug a csync cable in and test your product? 16 people working there and not a single person thought to do this?

Read please,

We are 6 and as far as i know we tried the csync cable and it worked here. Obviously not everyone works on the same product/area
We are trying to determine why it worked here, this is what i been told today.

Thanks

[tusecsy]

It didn't work there, you're either lying or ignorant or both. Csync does not work with your device, that's obvious.

You have a PR disaster on your hands, and it's all your doing. You could've listened to the experts a month ago, but you ignored them. You could listen to them now but you're claiming (we need to research it). If you don't halt shipments and fix your products hardware you're just gonna have more and more angry customers on your hands.

[SavagePencil]

I am the operations guy, neodev is the teach leader guy.

When we have an issue, he analyzes it, he tells me about and we both think in whats the better way to fix it.
This is still on analysys stage (we have bought more cables and we have to think about it)

My own opinion about hardware revisions is : i am not a fan about do those, so there are high chances that this will never happen. I mean, from what i know about this issue as today, this can be solved with a cable. If this is correct, i am of the opinion about not changing hardware design just for one thing : i don´t like users with A hardware and users with B hardware.



BTW, neodev told me he let there ways to make changes on the csync swapping resitors, so this could be an option aswel.


Alex,

So it sounds like any solution would have to be a hardware (not a software/firmware one). A lot of us have already invested significant sums into cables...upwards of $60 for some that are shielded, etc....that offer marked quality improvement over $9 cables. Additionally, we have found that some popular switches, capture, and upscaler devices don't like composite-video-as-sync. So you've already got some users with A hardware and others with B hardware.

Do you believe that a fix would be better implemented on the board itself, or in a cable?

[Neodev]

It didn't work there, you're either lying or ignorant or both. Csync does not work with your device, that's obvious.

My i ask why you are doing this ?
are you getting payed to do that ?
why are you acting this way ?
do you insult others in your daily basics ? do this works for you ? is your life better acting this way ? do others like to talk with yout ?

I mean, i can´t see the advantages about acting like this, so i would like to understand why you are doing that.

Thanks

[donluca]

The butthurt is strong. Last few pages of this thread are starting to resemble NG.com some actually..

Nah, it's just one very vocal user who has way too much free time on his hands. Shmups is one of the most cool places I've been. Of course there has been drama in the past (the hot glue thing of that modder who still comes up from time to time), but it's mostly a really nice place to read and write in.

EDIT: neodev just stop replying to him, please.