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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:02 am 


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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
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Location: Burlington, Vermont, USA
StrzxgvNuvWvfld wrote:
I'm wondering could the issue be because I have an RGB mod installed in my Core Grafx?

Yup, the ssds3 is NOT compatible with RGB modded systems.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:07 am 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
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Location: Australia
That's a misconception.

I ran ssds3 with an internal rgb mod fine, ssds3 showed a diagonal shit storm like it always does but my internal mod is clean.

I just stole audio from ssds3.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:16 am 


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Syntax wrote:
I ran ssds3 with an internal rgb mod fine, ssds3 showed a diagonal shit storm

So you are confirming the ssds3 is not compatible with an RGB modded console?
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:05 am 



Joined: 23 Dec 2016
Posts: 37
Earlier revisions of the SSDS3 would display diagonal noise with certain kinds of RGB sync standards. The current revision of the SSDS3 is RevB, and I have been told from TO that it incorporates all the fixes from both Voultar and FBX’s mods.

If you’re having trouble with noise, and it’s not jailbars, maybe check and see what revision of the SSDS3 you have and work on it from there. I just got one from the last batch they released and I’m enjoying it with some HDRetrovision cables. I know that the problems with earlier units were frustrating for a lot of users though.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:55 am 


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Location: Australia
the Goat wrote:
Syntax wrote:
I ran ssds3 with an internal rgb mod fine, ssds3 showed a diagonal shit storm

So you are confirming the ssds3 is not compatible with an RGB modded console?



No, the issue there was mostly the fact it was a white PCE.

when used the same way with the 2 amps running together on a Core it was fine, I did end up lifting the HU chips pins just incase after testing tho.

Using the SSDS3 output always gave sub par results.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:33 am 


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SSDS3 video output is negatively affected by internal RGB mods and can cause issues. But don't take my word for it. This is from Mobius' and Voultar's findings:

TO Forums
Quote:
So here's what can happen with an internal RGB amp. Regardless of it being connected at the expansion port or the huc6260, since there is no active component to separate the two RGB attenuation circuits, like a transistor. The 2 sets of attenuating components can both directly affect each other when connected. Because the internal amp is connected earlier in circuit than the ssds3 circuit, it can cause the ssds3 circuit to fall well out of spec. Basically over-attenuating the signals or transferring noise that might be picked up on the lines.

When originally working on the FU-RGB, Voultar and I were able to see this first hand by connecting the ssds3, then adding a connection to an internal amp. On the scope it showed a drop in signal as well as the signals becoming more erratic and noisy again. Even disconnecting the power and ground weren't good enough. We had to disconnect the RGBS lines inside the console to eliminate the issue.


Super SD System 3 FU-RGB Board Install v1 (from which the Rev B circuit comes from)
Quote:
Internal RGB mods should be removed from your console if you intend to use the video output from the SSDS3. A single connection to an internal RGB mod, no matter how well built, WILL almost certainly cause added video noise. Other mods, may also cause visual noise. If you complete the install and still see noise, first step is to disable any internal console mods and disconnect them.


If I were you I would remove the internal RGB mod or find a non-modded CoreGrafx I or II. RGB output is crisp even when paired with an OSSC on the rev B boards. Or you can keep using your rgb modded console getting video from the mod and tapping the audio from the SSDS3.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:00 am 



Joined: 25 Aug 2017
Posts: 25
Thanks for the responses.

I opened up the SSDS3 and there's a "B" in the bottom right which I believe means it should be the fixed version, so I really shouldn't be seeing noise, correct?

I'm not being picky here, the noise is very visible. I noticed it on the menu as soon as I booted up the system (not on the blacks, but any greys). On solid mid-brightness colours it's very visible, even from a distance. It isn't jailbars, it's a constantly changing diagonal pattern.

It does look like the mod may be to blame then. The video from the side din still looks good, even with the SSDS3 installed. I guess I could look at merging the video/audio from the separate sources, or I may just take the plunge and buy an unmodded console.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:10 pm 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 53
StrzxgvNuvWvfld wrote:
Thanks for the responses.

I opened up the SSDS3 and there's a "B" in the bottom right which I believe means it should be the fixed version, so I really shouldn't be seeing noise, correct?

I'm not being picky here, the noise is very visible. I noticed it on the menu as soon as I booted up the system (not on the blacks, but any greys). On solid mid-brightness colours it's very visible, even from a distance. It isn't jailbars, it's a constantly changing diagonal pattern.

It does look like the mod may be to blame then. The video from the side din still looks good, even with the SSDS3 installed. I guess I could look at merging the video/audio from the separate sources, or I may just take the plunge and buy an unmodded console.


My Core Grafx only has the jailbar mod on it and everything is super clean out of my RGB out on the SSDS3. It looks perfect. I have one of those knock off RGB out boards from the back port and it is crap when comparing. I would remove the mod if I were you.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:35 pm 


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Location: San Jose, CA
Syntax wrote:
the Goat wrote:
Syntax wrote:
I ran ssds3 with an internal rgb mod fine, ssds3 showed a diagonal shit storm

So you are confirming the ssds3 is not compatible with an RGB modded console?



No, the issue there was mostly the fact it was a white PCE.

when used the same way with the 2 amps running together on a Core it was fine, I did end up lifting the HU chips pins just incase after testing tho.

Using the SSDS3 output always gave sub par results.


I can attest to this, when I use the SSD3 with my white PCE, there's a significant amount of video noise using the SSD3's output. It's even worse with composite video which is practically unusable with that combo. Not even removing the internal RGB amp I had in it worked. It's also worth nothing that my white PCE is an original revision from 1987, so it doesn't have the two big ground points near the expansion port.

Recently I got a Core Grafx II and while the noise is still there, it's much more tolerable and it's barely noticeable on my OSSC. I'll also be getting in a TG-16 console and I'll see how the SSD3 does with that.

All this makes me wish that there was a drop-in ODE for the Duo consoles, the RGB output out of my modded Duo-R is great and I'd love to get it out of storage again.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:48 pm 


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Location: Burlington, Vermont, USA
ApolloBoy wrote:
I can attest to this, when I use the SSD3 with my white PCE, there's a significant amount of video noise using the SSD3's output. It's even worse with composite video which is practically unusable with that combo. Not even removing the internal RGB amp I had in it worked. It's also worth nothing that my white PCE is an original revision from 1987, so it doesn't have the two big ground points near the expansion port.

Recently I got a Core Grafx II and while the noise is still there, it's much more tolerable and it's barely noticeable on my OSSC. I'll also be getting in a TG-16 console and I'll see how the SSD3 does with that.

If you want the best output from the SSDS3, get a supergrafx.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:03 pm 


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Location: San Jose, CA
the Goat wrote:
ApolloBoy wrote:
I can attest to this, when I use the SSD3 with my white PCE, there's a significant amount of video noise using the SSD3's output. It's even worse with composite video which is practically unusable with that combo. Not even removing the internal RGB amp I had in it worked. It's also worth nothing that my white PCE is an original revision from 1987, so it doesn't have the two big ground points near the expansion port.

Recently I got a Core Grafx II and while the noise is still there, it's much more tolerable and it's barely noticeable on my OSSC. I'll also be getting in a TG-16 console and I'll see how the SSD3 does with that.

If you want the best output from the SSDS3, get a supergrafx.

I already knew about the SuperGrafx performing best with the SSD3, but I'm not exactly prepared to drop nearly $500 on one (just yet!). In any case I'm fairly satisfied with what I have now, the SSD3's video noise is just something I'm gonna have to live with unfortunately.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:23 pm 


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SSD3 came in for me and seems to be working great. RGB out is about as good as it was with the db booster for my TG16, which is to say that for some reason the red signal doesn't seem to be coming through - I don't know if the IC is bad, or if there's a bad solder joint somewhere between it and the pin - but composite out is gorgeous. I suspect this'll replace my Duo as my main platform, particularly if I can get the RGB issue resolved (or just go order a PCE).
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:04 am 


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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 654
Location: Escondido, CA, USA
Core grafx II here. No internal mods. Noise in grays on the ssds3 menu screen, and noticeable in games. Fu-rgb mod and stereo bypass amp. Expensive shielded coax scart cable, original tg-16 power supply. It's just what it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:09 pm 



Joined: 25 Aug 2017
Posts: 25
I thought I should post a small update on my situation in case it helps anyone in the future.

I decided to buy an unmodded CoreGrafx in the hope that it would solve my noise issues only to find the noise was *exactly* the same as on my RGB modded machine :roll:

I did discover that using Game1 or Standard on the Framemeister (both of which apply an LPF) helped to reduce the noise to much less visible levels.

I had been considering building a cable which takes the audio from the SSDS3 and the video from my RGB modded din, however, as the RGB cable was the only thing I hadn't switched, I bought a £10 Amazon cable, just to see what the results would be.

It turns out that using this cable the noise is almost gone!

I presume the signal reaching the framemeister is of a lower quality and that loss in sharpness is masking the noise, but the picture that remains looks perfectly acceptable to me. Using this cable with Game1 on the Framemeiser makes the noise almost invisible unless I look really closely (and I can certainly live with that).

I'm sure some people will disagree and would maybe find fault in the picture I'm getting, but my tip to anyone having noise problems is to first of all try a lower quality video cable!

I wish I'd tried that before getting another console!


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:13 pm 


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from a technical standpoint the Retrogaming cable probably is better. The difference here would be that the cheaper cable most definitely is using composite video for sync instead. Why this would make a positive difference for you is beyond me, but good for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:25 am 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
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Location: Australia
I did say that you can run 2 amps fine in the ssds3, but everyone went with Voultar and Mobius findings which eventually led nowhere, 3-4 revisions that never actually fixed the grounding issue. Hats off to them for the time spent on it but they both gave up trying to fix another companies product.

The ground plane under the ssds3 av port is corrupt as the Australian government, only audio comes out of it half decent.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:24 pm 


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Yeah at this point I’ve learned to live with the SSD3’s interference issues. It’s still a great thing to have and I wouldn’t dream of getting rid of it, but the fact that it still has these problems after almost three years is disappointing. Still waiting for the day someone comes out with an ODE for the Duos...


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:42 am 


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Here's something interesting I've found regarding interference with the SSD3. Recently I got ahold of another white PCE, but this one is a later revision which has the extra two ground points near the expansion port. I haven't messed with it in any way so it still has its RF shielding. This one actually has the best picture with my SSD3 to the point where the interference is non-existent, very surprised by this! It even beats out my Core Grafx II and TG-16.


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