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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:44 am 



Joined: 17 Jun 2016
Posts: 146
thebigcheese wrote:
I'm not saying that the new one isn't worse than the old ones. I've never owned any revision, so I can't say that one is better or worse. However, saying that other consoles don't buzz is not useful or even particularly relevant. Of course they don't. Nearly every console has internal shielding, especially in the US where the FCC requires it. Heck, even the PCE has SOME shielding. But NO revision of the SSDS3 has any internal shielding that I can see. Would a better PCB layout (or separate audio PCB) help eliminate the problem? Probably, based on what others have said. I'm just saying that there are other (cheaper/less invasive) things to try before going that route. If those don't help, then sure, clearly something is wrong with the board. But, since moving your console around and experimenting with other things is basically free, not at least trying those is... silly to say the least. For example, there's a thread on here about 8bitdo's new wireless Genesis controllers and I believe it was FBX who discovered that they added some buzz in certain cases but moving the receiver farther from the console or otherwise shielding it seemed to reduce the buzzing.


What are you even talking about? People are saying the previous ssds3 with fbx mod didn't have the issue in the same setup. That's the issue here.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:51 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 538
I wonder if cutting certain traces and replacing them with (shielded) wires would eliminate the EMI without needing to completely replace the audio circuitry.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:26 pm 



Joined: 17 Feb 2019
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thebigcheese wrote:
I wonder if cutting certain traces and replacing them with (shielded) wires would eliminate the EMI without needing to completely replace the audio circuitry.

Or perhaps better yet, take a small piece of tin, and find a way to mount it to the board in an attempt to shield the audio components from the rest of the board. I would probably attempt something like this before desoldering the audio components, and using a bypass audio board.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:54 pm 



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 47
I was thinking about the same thing bigcheese. It'd be ugly but probably would help.

Edit: Tried to run a shielded wire on one channel on the longest trace on the bottom of the PCB going to the AV connector. It goes from one side of the PCB to the other, figure this would be picking up the most EFI. Cut the original copper trace, soldered the jumper, and connected the shield to ground on the AV connector. Then I tried one channel connected to my received at a time. Didn't help and was the same static noise on L and R channel.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:33 am 


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Tonight I was able to test a PC Engine someone sent in with their own SSDS3 Rev B. It seems there's something HORRIBLE going on with how the audio is reacting to the PC Engine versus the Super Grafx. The console-side sound is shrill and warped with static, while the CDDA is riddled with SD access noise. Take a listen to my Forgotten Worlds test on the PC Engine:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wuwvm2YSBb5VA_Byvefp_-J4oSZ01Wu4

Now listen to that EXACT same SSDS3 with the EXACT same A/V cables on my Super Grafx:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bJI1aJQEnyAFkRtYx2vp54dMllE1iIwh

Night and day difference, and you can easily tell why I signed off on the audio when I tested the SSDS3 on my setup. Now why these other consoles are reacting so violently compared to the Super Grafx's near perfect behavior is a bit of a mystery. Nevertheless I'm going to attempt a full bypass of the audio and test the results on the PC Engine. I'm just glad to find out I wasn't losing my hearing or something, because that Super Grafx playback is the experience I get with the Rev B SSDS3 units.

-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:45 am 



Joined: 22 Feb 2019
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Is this is the original white PC Engine you've compared to the Super Grafx? I assume there must be a difference in audio performance for PC Engine vs Core Grafx vs Core Grafx II vs Super Grafx. Right now you've confirmed that PC Engine audio is heavily distorted but Super Grafx isn't, can anyone else confirm the performance of Core Grafx or Core Grafx 2 with SSDS3?

I have received my Core Grafx and waiting to receive my SSDS3 so can't yet comment but will be able to probably in April when I get everything setup.

Thanks,
John


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:46 am 


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That's weird... I wonder what's different. It makes sense if an obscure model like the Supergrafx had an unknown variant, but surely numerous PC Engine would have been in test setups. Another problem caused by hardware variations? I'm not sure what was ultimately discovered when all the FU-RGB research was done. Was any of the information about hardware variants released? I only recall it was delayed quite a bit as it was researched.


Last edited by Gara on Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:59 am 


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Gara wrote:
That's weird... I wonder what's different. It makes sense if an obscure model like the Supergrafx had an unmissed variant, but surely numerous PC Engine would have been in test setups. Another problem caused by hardware variations? I'm not sure what was ultimately discovered when all the FU-RGB research was done. Was any of the information about hardware variants released? I only recall it was delayed quite a bit as it was researched.


Well in my case, I did the audio work for free based on what I had available to me at the time, which was the Super Grafx I had blown my savings on. I wasn't able to spend any more out of pocket to go buy up every console revision, and I was working 8 hour days soldering PCB boards anyway. I just couldn't anticipate this happening, because why would it play so beautifully on the Super Grafx using the SAME circuit on my bypass board? It's just a SNAFU, and it's this kind of thing that's really depressing to me when I tried so hard to help.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:07 am 


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FBX wrote:
Gara wrote:
That's weird... I wonder what's different. It makes sense if an obscure model like the Supergrafx had an unmissed variant, but surely numerous PC Engine would have been in test setups. Another problem caused by hardware variations? I'm not sure what was ultimately discovered when all the FU-RGB research was done. Was any of the information about hardware variants released? I only recall it was delayed quite a bit as it was researched.


Well in my case, I did the audio work for free based on what I had available to me at the time, which was the Super Grafx I had blown my savings on. I wasn't able to spend any more out of pocket to go buy up every console revision, and I was working 8 hour days soldering PCB boards anyway. I just couldn't anticipate this happening, because why would it play so beautifully on the Super Grafx using the SAME circuit on my bypass board? It's just a SNAFU, and it's this kind of thing that's really depressing to me when I tried so hard to help.


No need to shoulder any blame. You're hardly the only person who would have tested it. It's not even conclusive what the problem is. Heck I'd find it hard to even blame Terraonion if it's a hardware revision problem. Well... I could still blame them. :P

Console revisions for the PC Engine don't seem to be documented like the Snes. I thought maybe we would see some interesting articles about it after Voultar and Mobius did all that research. I think it's something they just want to put behind them.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:38 am 



Joined: 14 Mar 2019
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FBX wrote:
Gara wrote:
That's weird... I wonder what's different. It makes sense if an obscure model like the Supergrafx had an unmissed variant, but surely numerous PC Engine would have been in test setups. Another problem caused by hardware variations? I'm not sure what was ultimately discovered when all the FU-RGB research was done. Was any of the information about hardware variants released? I only recall it was delayed quite a bit as it was researched.


Well in my case, I did the audio work for free based on what I had available to me at the time, which was the Super Grafx I had blown my savings on. I wasn't able to spend any more out of pocket to go buy up every console revision, and I was working 8 hour days soldering PCB boards anyway. I just couldn't anticipate this happening, because why would it play so beautifully on the Super Grafx using the SAME circuit on my bypass board? It's just a SNAFU, and it's this kind of thing that's really depressing to me when I tried so hard to help.



Its no way your fault. Your circuit is beautiful as evidenced by your own setup and my own previous mod which i was really happy with. However, and i hate to point fingers at terraonion as i understand the flak they have already taken, you'd expect the manufacturer to do their own testing before release. When that doesn't happen it clearly points toward a certain careless mentality...i mean this many revisions still with issues. Surely all it would have taken is for one proto unit to be produced and tested BY THEMSELVES with every possible hardware variant, which amounts to only 4 variants(3 if we count the core1 and 2 as the same thing), of which only 1 is expensive.

I'm also glad you have tested and seen the issues yourself though FB. I starting doubting myself as my modded unit had long gone and i started thinking perhaps i was imagining something.

The recordings you have taken are a real eye opener though. I knew there was something strange going on, but that makes it clear...its like the sound is being produced by completely different hardware. Something much worse at that.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:32 pm 



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Yep that's my PCE I sent to FBX. The buzz/whine can be even worse than that in some other games actually. Is that how it sounds to everyone else here having issues with the new SSDS3 revision B? Everyone using a white PCE? Now we also need to test Coregrafx and Coregrafx II. It would be interesting if only the Supergrafx behaves well with this thing, meaning that the $300 SSDS3 was meant to require an additional $300+ for a Supergrafx :lol:

But seriously, don't take this too hard on yourself FBX. This is entirely on Terra Onion because they should be doing the testing of the finalized new revision with all models. We know for a fact they have a white PCE with which they tested the previous ones, supposedly. One would wish that, after you gave the okay to the new revision, they would at least test it ONCE on their PCE and would notice immediately even on their menu that there's very noticeable noise, and then they should have gotten back to you. You're one of the scene heroes for salvaging this product which STILL manages to have problems.

Let's hope that using the bypass board on revision B will at least produce the same results as on rev. 2. That's a much less costly solution than having to get a Supergrafx!


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:58 pm 



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fernan1234 wrote:
Yep that's my PCE I sent to FBX. The buzz/whine can be even worse than that in some other games actually. Is that how it sounds to everyone else here having issues with the new SSDS3 revision B? Everyone using a white PCE? Now we also need to test Coregrafx and Coregrafx II. It would be interesting if only the Supergrafx behaves well with this thing, meaning that the $300 SSDS3 was meant to require an additional $300+ for a Supergrafx :lol:

But seriously, don't take this too hard on yourself FBX. This is entirely on Terra Onion because they should be doing the testing of the finalized new revision with all models. We know for a fact they have a white PCE with which they tested the previous ones, supposedly. One would wish that, after you gave the okay to the new revision, they would at least test it ONCE on their PCE and would notice immediately even on their menu that there's very noticeable noise, and then they should have gotten back to you. You're one of the scene heroes for salvaging this product which STILL manages to have problems.

Let's hope that using the bypass board on revision B will at least produce the same results as on rev. 2. That's a much less costly solution than having to get a Supergrafx!


I use a CORE2 with mine and that clip sounds like it could have literally been taken from mine. To be fair that clip sounded like a best case scenario too...i've heard much worse from it. Usually when the music is silent or quiet you can hear the BUZZZ from the sd card reading. It only comes over VERY slightly in that recording. Having said that i think it was more FBX's intention to demonstrate the warping effect more than anything, which it did very well.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:06 pm 


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Just a small thing to consider: even the first SSD3 worked 100% fine on TO's (and some other people's) end, otherwise they wouldn't have put it up for sale.

When the second revision was made, they acquired more equipment (more PCE revisions, scalers and other monitors, IIRC) and they all checked out fine on their end.
This is exactly what happened with FBX as well, so I would think twice before putting the blame (again) on TO. This means that TO did their testing and it was fine on their part (just like it was before this latest revision, I may add).

After 50 pages it should be clear that the biggest mistake was making an ODE for such a trainwreck of a system, because since the first revision, the SSD3 worked fine for some of the customers (which even told TO they didn't want/need the second revision) and two revisions and more than one year later, there are still issues with some of the consoles.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:19 pm 



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donluca wrote:
Just a small thing to consider: even the first SSD3 worked 100% fine on TO's (and some other people's) end, otherwise they wouldn't have put it up for sale.


Well yeah, the problem is that their standards for "worked 100% fine" or "checked out fine" don't seem to be as high and careful as many users with reasonable expectations would wish. The fact that the previous revision with the two board additions achieved a level of quality that satisfied everyone proves that it is possible to make this ODE for the system without it being a mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:39 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 538
PaTaito wrote:
Its no way your fault. Your circuit is beautiful as evidenced by your own setup and my own previous mod which i was really happy with. However, and i hate to point fingers at terraonion as i understand the flak they have already taken, you'd expect the manufacturer to do their own testing before release. When that doesn't happen it clearly points toward a certain careless mentality...i mean this many revisions still with issues. Surely all it would have taken is for one proto unit to be produced and tested BY THEMSELVES with every possible hardware variant, which amounts to only 4 variants(3 if we count the core1 and 2 as the same thing), of which only 1 is expensive.

I'm also glad you have tested and seen the issues yourself though FB. I starting doubting myself as my modded unit had long gone and i started thinking perhaps i was imagining something.

The recordings you have taken are a real eye opener though. I knew there was something strange going on, but that makes it clear...its like the sound is being produced by completely different hardware. Something much worse at that.


I wouldn't consider the two CoreGrafx models the same. They are very similar, but they use (slightly) different CPUs. In fact, the SuperGrafx and CoreGrafx 1 are, I think, the only two models to use that CPU. I don't remember where I read it, but I believe one of the reasons for the revision (HU6280a) was to fix some minor audio issues. So it's entirely possible that this CPU revision has something to do with it. There are a bunch of other things added/revised in the SuperGrafx as well, though, so I'm not surprised to hear that it would react differently. Anyone have a CoreGrafx 1 and the new SSDS3 revision? Is the noise similar, better, or worse than the samples FBX posted?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:59 pm 


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thebigcheese wrote:
Anyone have a CoreGrafx 1 and the new SSDS3 revision? Is the noise similar, better, or worse than the samples FBX posted?


It's was far worse on my CoreGrafx 1. I returned my SSDS3.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:13 pm 



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donluca wrote:
Just a small thing to consider: even the first SSD3 worked 100% fine on TO's (and some other people's) end, otherwise they wouldn't have put it up for sale.


An equally small thing to consider: given the hubbub that arose in the last 50 pages, you would think they would be extra thorough with a new version before going through this all again.

One avenue to consider: is it possible this is a manufacturing issue? I remember some of the early boards looked variable in terms of components, PCB, etc. Maybe it's only those coming from a particular fab or run?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:18 pm 



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SavagePencil wrote:
One avenue to consider: is it possible this is a manufacturing issue? I remember some of the early boards looked variable in terms of components, PCB, etc. Maybe it's only those coming from a particular fab or run?


Assuming that FBX has also tested his own SSDS3 on the PCE, which must have been cherry-picked by TO and sent to him, and found the same issue, then we can conclude it's unlikely to be a manufacturing issue, but rather a design issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:25 pm 


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SavagePencil wrote:
given the hubbub that arose in the last 50 pages, you would think they would be extra thorough with a new version before going through this all again.


And I'm sure they did, but given the huge variance in the PCE hardware (and people's setups) I think that testing every possible combination would be near impossible (or it would involve a very big cost). No one wants to see one of their product fail so badly, hence why I'd honestly start wondering if making the SSD3 in the first place was a good idea and whether they should have gone to the length they did. Maybe they should have just stopped at the second revision and called it a day and then let the modders like FBX and Voultar provide fixes tailored to each people's console, since now we have a board which works flawlessly with the SuperGrafx (maybe others?) but not on the CoreGrafx 1 and 2 (maybe only some of them?).


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:42 pm 



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donluca wrote:
And I'm sure they did, but given the huge variance in the PCE hardware (and people's setups) I think that testing every possible combination would be near impossible (or it would involve a very big cost). No one wants to see one of their product fail so badly, hence why I'd honestly start wondering if making the SSD3 in the first place was a good idea and whether they should have gone to the length they did. Maybe they should have just stopped at the second revision and called it a day and then let the modders like FBX and Voultar provide fixes tailored to each people's console, since now we have a board which works flawlessly with the SuperGrafx (maybe others?) but not on the CoreGrafx 1 and 2 (maybe only some of them?).


Perhaps. By now, they must understand that it was their responsibility to release a product that works with all the various hardware, because they're under the microscope. But now we're back to this, and their words and actions will come back to haunt them. "Quality can't be measured" etc. etc.

More constructively: FBX: Does the customer's PCE have the same response to all SSDS3s, or just the one they sent you?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:49 pm 



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donluca wrote:
And I'm sure they did, but given the huge variance in the PCE hardware (and people's setups) I think that testing every possible combination would be near impossible (or it would involve a very big cost). No one wants to see one of their product fail so badly


See, the thing is that there's a perfectly reasonable sweet spot between "let's test every possible setup combination out there" and "let's see this product fail badly". For this particular issue it looks like that sweet spot simply involved testing the finalized revision B with the crazy number of 4 compatible PC Engine console models. But they either didn't do that or didn't do it carefully enough (i.e. checking sound recordings like FBX just did in a matter of minutes).

But yeah, if FBX can confirm that with his other SSDS3 the noise issue is the same I think we can conclude it's a design flaw.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:03 pm 



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I wont be make excuses for them. Sum total of 4 models(a far cry from a "huge variance"),3 of which can be purchased for peanuts, needed to be taken into account. Furthermore as FBX and Voultar(correct me if i'm wrong here) have both commented that proximity noise is a big issue on this device, then its clearly a very flawed design.

Did devices like dbGrafx Booster have these kinds of video/audio issues? I'm assuming not. For me its clearly just a very poorly designed board with proximity issues and perhaps a lack of shielding or sufficient grounding, maybe it could have done with its own PSU?? I'm no engineer, just an amateur modder, but maybe FBX/Voultar/Mobius can chime in on that front...although i'm sure they already have over the course of this thread.


Last edited by PaTaito on Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:08 pm 


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HDgaming42 wrote:
thebigcheese wrote:
Anyone have a CoreGrafx 1 and the new SSDS3 revision? Is the noise similar, better, or worse than the samples FBX posted?


It's was far worse on my CoreGrafx 1. I returned my SSDS3.

I don't understand why more people didn't. The product clearly has defects, it seems rather unwise to me for all these people to be fighting this uphill battle with a company that doesn't know what they are doing. Just get your money back and forget about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:09 pm 



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maxtherabbit wrote:
HDgaming42 wrote:
thebigcheese wrote:
Anyone have a CoreGrafx 1 and the new SSDS3 revision? Is the noise similar, better, or worse than the samples FBX posted?


It's was far worse on my CoreGrafx 1. I returned my SSDS3.

I don't understand why more people didn't. The product clearly has defects, it seems rather unwise to me for all these people to be fighting this uphill battle with a company that doesn't know what they are doing. Just get your money back and forget about it.


Don't they have a no returns policy? I guess thats a bad sign right out of the gate though lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:24 pm 


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fernan1234 wrote:

But yeah, if FBX can confirm that with his other SSDS3 the noise issue is the same I think we can conclude it's a design flaw.


My own SSDS3 Rev B reacts identically on your PC Engine, so there's no conspiracy about cherry picking. The simple matter is it works beautifully on a Super Grafx, but somehow reacts very poorly to the other systems. I'll be doing the audio bypass mod on it today to find out if that fixes the issue. If it does, then there's just something about the power rails in the SSDS3 board that causes it to output bad sound on some consoles and not the Super Grafx.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:21 pm 


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donluca wrote:
Just a small thing to consider: even the first SSD3 worked 100% fine on TO's (and some other people's) end, otherwise they wouldn't have put it up for sale.

When the second revision was made, they acquired more equipment (more PCE revisions, scalers and other monitors, IIRC) and they all checked out fine on their end.
This is exactly what happened with FBX as well, so I would think twice before putting the blame (again) on TO. This means that TO did their testing and it was fine on their part (just like it was before this latest revision, I may add).


Well said. As much as I loath the previous mistakes I think TO did their due diligence here. They finally accounted for high quality cables, quality scalers, and sent the hardware out to respected members of the community for testing before production. It's disappointing that some presumably unknown variant snuck past testing but I'm not feeling the desire to roast them again. They did everything the community wanted. Something could still come up that shifts the blame back on them but I don't feel we are there yet.

Edit: While saying the first ssds3 worked 100% fine to TO may be factuly true I wouldn't consider it a point in their favor. Their initial horrible testing standards is big contributor to their poor reputation.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:34 am 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
HDgaming42 wrote:
thebigcheese wrote:
Anyone have a CoreGrafx 1 and the new SSDS3 revision? Is the noise similar, better, or worse than the samples FBX posted?


It's was far worse on my CoreGrafx 1. I returned my SSDS3.

I don't understand why more people didn't. The product clearly has defects, it seems rather unwise to me for all these people to be fighting this uphill battle with a company that doesn't know what they are doing. Just get your money back and forget about it.


Amen. Personally glad to wash my hands of this affair. What a bad experience...


PaTaito wrote:
Don't they have a no returns policy? I guess thats a bad sign right out of the gate though lol.


That's the way it looked to me. Bought from SAG at a premium, but ended up being worth it. I'll report back when my return is fully refunded by SAG.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:39 am 


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Update: Just tested my SSDS3 older revision with my bypass board installed, and the SAME shrill sound can be heard as well as the buzzing. So for some reason, the audio circuit is not compatible with the PC Engine, yet works perfectly fine in the Super Grafx. Either that, or there's something actually wrong with the sound on this PC Engine.

If it's outcome A (not compatible), then I need to find out what's going on with the console sounds and why they are so messed up compared to the Super Grafx.

If it's outcome B, I'd need to study how the sound circuitry works and determine if there's a fix inside the console itself.

One things for certain though, since I'm getting the same horrid results on my old SSDS3 with internal audio bypass, that means my bypass isn't going to work to fix this on the new revision either. I'm more confused than ever now.

Edit: Heard from one other person that has a Coregrafx and they say Rev B sounds fine. No shrill audio on console end, and only the slightest hint of buzzing if you crank the volume way up. The mystery deepens...
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:26 am 



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Is everyone with the audio issue running original caps in their console? Maybe dried up caps could be causing it. My TG-16 has original caps.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:42 am 


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I have been staying out of most of this. One thing that someone said earlier is very true, I am just done with the situation overall. I am still happy to help people and glad that solutions were found but I don't want to keep beating a dead horse.

Now to weigh in on the current situation. I did not specifically test with a SuperGrafx only. The reason the FU-RGB took so long to come out in the first place was because Voultar and I went through many revisions, most were not public, and I tested on a lot of consoles and variations of setups. The only reason I even own an OSSC is because of this project.

Now all that being said, I still test every install on the noisiest PC Engine I have. I never test on my SuperGrafx for customer installs. I bought additional consoles just for testing, so I had a wider sampling. I own a rev B. My rev B on the noisy PC Engine doesn't sound like what everyone is describing. I don't even notice the noise unless I crank the volume. Just like on the rev 2/3. While I am not a master of the audio side of the house, I'd like to think that I am not just ignoring the noise.

So where am I going with this? I have stated many times that the consoles themselves play a huge part in determining the level of noise. Some of them are genuinely noisier than others. Within the white PC Engine, you have 2 major board revisions. I own one of each and have tested with both. The earlier revision tends to have more noise but both are usually awful compared to other models.

If people stop buying the SSDS3 because they are worried about hearing this noise that's up to them. I don't think it makes sense to say that you must own a SuperGrafx though. I'm not defending TO or anyone else. I just see it as there is something going on, we don't have the answers yet, and discussing it with as much information as we have is the best way to help track down what is happening.
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