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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:37 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 2310
Location: DFW area, Texas
darknezz19 wrote:
I think a few people would use that Space Ship Edition of the bypass if it get to OSH FireBrand:)


I thought about putting it up, but since it requires removing connector pins from the SSDS3 board, I got worried about people freaking out and emailing me that they've broken their SSDS3 trying to do my mod. Maybe I could just put a stern warning that I am NOT going to cover support emails for that board.

Mobiusstriptech wrote:
The bypass board looks different because VGP made their boards in green, not purple. The values are going to be the same on the board, unless FBX gave TO other values to use.


For the record, TO got the exact same circuit used in my bypass board, and the VGP version is the exact same circuit as well. The problem (once again it seems), is proximity. The bypass board worked well because it moved sensitive audio parts up off the SSDS3 board where all the EMI is.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:03 pm 



Joined: 14 Mar 2019
Posts: 27
Location: UK
FBX wrote:
For the record, TO got the exact same circuit used in my bypass board, and the VGP version is the exact same circuit as well. The problem (once again it seems), is proximity. The bypass board worked well because it moved sensitive audio parts up off the SSDS3 board where all the EMI is.


Would it be possible to point out which components would need removing should i want to use the modboard again on the new revision? I would really appreciate this if it would not be putting you out too much?

I think the proximity point is on the nail personally having tested both a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:26 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 617
Looks like what we really need is a digital audio output mod. Maybe something to look forward in revision C :lol:

And hopefully if the TO guys see these posts about noise they won't just think that we can never be happy with anything. The noise is there but it should be at least acceptable for a lot of users in many setups. Overall it's now a really nice product.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:34 am 


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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 209
Location: Canada
fernan1234 wrote:
Looks like what we really need is a digital audio output mod. Maybe something to look forward in revision C :lol:

And hopefully if the TO guys see these posts about noise they won't just think that we can never be happy with anything. The noise is there but it should be at least acceptable for a lot of users in many setups. Overall it's now a really nice product.


I don't know man--I've got to say at $450CAD (plus the $150 for a coregrafx) I'm beginning to regret walking this road. It shouldn't buzz--period.

$450 and the audio still buzzes--in a redesigned revision B. How is this acceptable?

Do I drop yet another $40 on someone else's shielded cables in the hopes of mitigating it? I mean...god I'm sick to my stomach...

I wonder if Stone Age Gamer would take it back? At this stage I *think* I'd rather recap my Turbo and RGB mod it and deal with re-burning games as they rot if it means not hearing that buzz.

Ugh. Just...ugh. :( :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:38 am 



Joined: 14 Mar 2019
Posts: 27
Location: UK
fernan1234 wrote:
The noise is there but it should be at least acceptable for a lot of users in many setups. Overall it's now a really nice product.


I wish i could agree man...but for me(ymmv) the sound is very distracting at fairly low volumes. I like to hear my games clearly, and if i want that i have to accept this high pitched whine, and buzz/hum roled into one. I mean if you use mediocre speakers and headphones you might get away with it, but anyone who likes good sound quality and is using anything decent in their retro setups...yikes.

Honestly if this were any other consumer product you'd send it back hands down.

I think as firebrand mentioned about EMI on the mainboard, seperately mounting the audio components on a seperate board might go a long way to solving this. Short of a complete redesign.

As soon as i find out what to remove from this revision, i will be looking into re-installing the audio modboard as its far superior from my experience. I have zero complaints about the video quality though.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:55 am 


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Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 170
Location: Northern California
It sounds like the new revision has more noise than the modded older revisions. That or there are more variables at play. I have to turn it up to a pretty decent volume to hear the noise. Not pleasant but worlds better than the unmodded. I don't hear it at all on lower volumes. I'm on the first revision with a FBX audio board and snipped video lines. My Supergrafx has a Voultar v69 RGB mod. Audio is hooked up to a 3.5mm jack using a Retro-Access coax scart cable with 3.5mm breakout.

At least no one is complaining about video problems. It's fascinating to see everyone focused on audio quality. It's warranted but still interesting to see the discourse focused on audio.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:38 am 


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Location: DFW area, Texas
PaTaito wrote:

Would it be possible to point out which components would need removing should i want to use the modboard again on the new revision? I would really appreciate this if it would not be putting you out too much?



Remove the following:

C35, C36, C74, C76, R29.

Tack your power line to the top pad of R29.
Tack your left audio input line to the bottom pad of C76.
Tack your right audio input line to the bottom pad of C74.
Tack your left audio output line to the top pad of C36 (if you want to wire back to the SSDS3 board, but results are better using a separate output jack for audio).
Tack your right audio output line to the top pad of C35 (if you want to wire back to the SSDS3 board, but results are better using a separate output jack for audio).
Tack ground to the same pin as before.

Edit: One extra step I forgot: On the bypass board, you'll need to remove R1 and R4 and bridge the pads for them. This is because the mixing resistor values were raised on the Rev B SSDS3 boards.

-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:05 pm 



Joined: 20 Sep 2013
Posts: 19
Location: MN, USA
I tried out my SSDS3 rev B last night now that I finally got my scart cable for it.
I'm using it with a stock core grafx instead of my Supergrafx that has a Voultar v.69 mod.

Video setup goes from SSDS3 to my GSCART switch via a Retro-Access coax scart cable and then to my BVM20F1U via a wookiewin scart to BNC.

Audio goes from the gscart to a Pioneer AV receiver.

Video looks perfect, I can hear some minor noise when games are loading, but as far as I can hear the audio is perfect in games. I'm happy.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:41 pm 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 48
Hi. This was posted the other day but has just been made public. Hopefully you don't mind me giving it more visibility by reposting it on this page. Thanks for understanding.

---------------------------------------------------

Hello,

First off, sorry to everybody for registering just for this, but it seems Terraonion think that the people interested in the subject are all users of this board hence they don't mention it in their own official forum. They haven't explained the matter in their homepage either nor are even addressing the questions in their official channels, as I'm still waiting for a reply via e-mail after several days.

I've learnt about this new RGB/audio fix revision past week. After reading lots of forum posts in order to know if there are any kind of plans to compensate in any form early adopters (given that, not only are they acknowledging with this they did release a flawed device, but that we had their word that there wouldn't ever be a revision fixing these particular issues), to my surprise, it seems there isn't.

Worst of it all, they're trying to hide and forget the issue as soon as possible if even it implies ignoring their own forum or their customers' e-mails.

https://forums.terraonion.com/viewtopic ... 3740#p3739

I have a revision 2? unit with updated firmware since day 1. I also bought a non-cheap PC Engine, a Packapunch RGB cable for RGB TV usage, a recommended 128GB micro SD card and a Playstation controller adapter. Haven't played the USD300 device for more than 3 h since I can't bear the diagonal visual noise I get. No scan converter/digital signal usage here.

No means to soldering and not in the US so the external solution is not assumable in my case, sadly.

As far as I've learnt, they had many knowledgable people warning them soon enough, yet they didn't listened as if it all was some kind of conspiracy. They also made some changes to fix audio issues with later units which early adopters wouldn't be getting. I didn't complain. Tried to understand. But now they're silently releasing a revised device for the same price and... we must just accept it? How come this thread isn't full of people saying it's unjust and claiming for some kind of compensation? I mean, they could at the very least offer a non-profit purchase of the new PCB! The more the voices, the bigger the chance to get a refund or something, isn't it. They weren't just ignorant, they lied to their customers!





Neodev wrote:
So we never took (the needed) attention to RGB output on SSDS3. To us, RGB output on SSDS3 was just another line on the features list of a device that was designed from day one as an ODE that would play 99,9% of the games. To us, playing all games was the key feature of Super SD System 3.

Quote:
We did 2 big mistakes


You're then assuming you made "big" mistakes, can you please explain to me why your customers have to pay for them?

Están ustedes asumiendo entonces que cometieron errores "importantes", ¿puede explicarme si es tan amable por qué son sus clientes los que han de pagar por ello?



Quote:
First one was to not think RGB had the importance that it has for "some of you", and i say "some of you", cause i still think you all are a small but noisy group of people (yes, you can blame me again for say what i think instead of what's politically correct)


So you made "important mistakes" which led to a flawed product at least in regards to the A/V output. You're saying that now, more than one year after the device is out and in your customers' homes. You're (silently) fixing the flaws with a new version for the same price so that your old customers have to pay TWICE if they want it fixed. And yet, you have the nerve to treat us with an insult!?

De modo que cometieron "errores importantes" que derivaron en un producto fallido al menos en lo concerniente a la salida A/V. Lo dicen ahora, después de más de un año de que el producto salió y esté en las casas de sus clientes. Han reparado (sin ningún aviso) los fallos con una nueva versión al mismo precio, de manera que sus antigos clientes han de pagar DOS VECES si quiere el arreglo. Y aún así, ¿¡tiene el descaro de dirigirse a nosotros con un insulto!?



Quote:
But, would you guys would be able to wait 4 months without being fucking around everyday and putting more pressure day after day on us? i bet the answer is NO, cause you guys want the Amazon experience


What about asking your customers instead of treating them with such an unjustified arrogance as if they were part of a conspiracy? You know, if the answer is YES, we could count three mistakes now (and I'm sure it's a yes!)

¿Y qué me dice de preguntar la cuestión a sus clientes en lugar de tratarles con esa arrogancia injustificada como si formaran parte de no sé qué conspiración? Porque si la respuesta fuera SÍ, estaríamos ante el tercer error, ¿verdad? (¡y estoy seguro de que sería un sí!).



Quote:
you guys saying me/us are shit, unfair with our customers, only looking for money and similar things : please clean your mouth before talking about us.


Yet another insult!

¡Y otro insulto más...!



Quote:
we knew that no one would be happy : The ones with the old board would be pissed, the ones without it would be pissed, everyone would be pissed cause one only has to read this thread to see people only wants to not be happy at all, just trash talk about us, speculating but not hearing what we have to say.


I personally could tell you that I myself have been quite unsatisfied since they one with your device's quality, and yet, I never complaint in this whole year (I was too busy trying to not get crashes with certain games, I guess). Hearing all you have to say and never complaning despite the flaws. Just as you like. But that's beyond the point. You actually had the means (and still have, to a point) to have everybody happy, or, at least, not so dissapointed, but it seems you don't know what respect means. Even with your own customers, without whom, you couldn't exist as a company.

Personalmente, podría decirle que he estado bastante insatisfecho con la calidad de su dispositivo desde el primer día, y aún así, nunca me he quejado en todo este año (estaba demasiado ocupado intentando que determinados juegos funcionaran sin cuelgues, supongo). Justo como quieren. Pero ésa no es la cuestión. Ustedes tenían (y tienen aún, hasta cierto punto), de hecho, los medios para que todos estuvieran contentos, o al menos, menos decepcionados, pero se ve que desconocen el significado de respeto. Incluso hacia sus propios clientes sin los cuales no existirían como compañía.



Quote:
So why we did this new version ? cause we wanted the guys fucking around with the rgb to have what they were fucking asking around all day long (or why you guys were moaning about it ? just to have it and come back moaning about we did it ?. Even we knew when they got this new board they would not stop fucking around with the same thing.

BUT above all things : we did it, cause it was the right thing to do at all.


You did the right thing. Now do the next right thing and do not leave your old customers in a comparative disadvantage. Because not everything is about money and you're concerened about ethics, right?

Hicieron lo correcto. Ahora sigan en la senda correcta y no dejen a sus primeros clientes en una situación de agravio comparativo. Porque no todo es por dinero y realmente le preocupa la cuestión ética, ¿no es cierto?



Quote:
I just want to say, that not everything in life is about money but passion about what one does and love for what on does. Sometimes shit happens, and like on the good times, we are always here to do our best to try to have everyone happy. Just sometimes as this time, its clear that it's not possible at all.


Excuse me. "Shit" didn't happen. You yourselves made "big mistakes", do really your best and try to compensate old customers. There're many ways for that and I'm sure most people will be reasonable (you'll be so lucky that many of them won't even care about the A/V fixes). But you aren't even trying. You're just giving your old customers a big FUCK YOU coupled with the worst possible way of human communication and manners.

Me discupen: Nada de "cosas que pasan". Ustedes son los que cometieron "errores graves", intenten de verdad resarcirse y compensen pues a sus primeros clientes. Hay muchas maneras para ello y estoy seguro de que ellos sabrán ser razonables (van a tener tanta suerte que muchos ni se preocuparán si hay arreglos de A/V). Pero no están ustedes ni acaso intentándolo. Lo único que han formulado es un enorme QUE OS JODAN a sus antiguos clientes acompañado de la peor de las formas de comunicación y educación posibles.



Quote:
One thing is try to improve something and other different is to do changes to force your customers to buy the same thing two times


Good, because that's exactly what you achieved.

Fenomenal, prque eso es justo lo que han logrado.



Quote:
We wanted the new board version, and we decided to not anounce it to not piss previous customers, to us the better way to have as less people as possible pissed, it was silent introduce it.


Mistake #4, in my eyes.

Error nº 4, en mi opinión.




Quote:
there wasn´t a good solution that would make everyone happy : if you inprove the product you have some customers pissed, if you don´t improve it you will have those customers pissed or other guys that are not your customers at all pissed.


Rule #1 is not to "piss" your old customers. Not just because non-customers may end not being a customer ever if they care about customer support, but because of plain respect. It's your old customers the ones who blindly relied in your company. They gave you their money before the product got any review (at least, a useful, unpaid review). Then again, you still have the means to compensate them and not "pissing" them so hard. Talk with them (us). Otherwise, your company's image is taking much harm. Many will be reminding this episode for many years, the internet is huge, etc. etc.

La primera regla es no "fastidiar" a tus clientes antiguos. No sólo porque los que aún no son clientes pueden terminar por no serlo nunca si les preocupa el servicio al cliente, sino por una mera cuestión de respeto. Son sus clientes antiguos los que ciegamente confiaron en su compañía. Pusieron su dinero antes de que el producto pudiera tener alguna crítica (al menos, alguna útil, libre de cobros). Pero como les digo, aún tienen formas de compensarlos de alguna manera y "fastidiarlos" con tanta alevosía. Hablen con ellos (nosotros). De lo contrario, la imagen de su compañía va a verse muy dañada. Muchos van a estar recordando el episodio durante muchos años, la red es ingente, etc. etc...


Quote:
About the assholes/dicks : its always the same story, world is full of people, some are more patience, others are dicks. I am not saying all our customers are dicks. I would say a small minority took this RGB issue the hard way and they pushed us so hard to the limits.


And again, what about that small minority who kept silence all this time patiently despite being quite unsatisfied with the device, and with reasons? "Fuck them" too? Do they have the right to think and claim that YOU are the assholes/dicks in their scenario?

De nuevo, ¿qué me dice de la minoría que ha estado pacientemente callada todo este tiempo, a pesar de estar bastante insatisfecha con el dispositivo, y con razón? ¿"Que les jodan", también? ¿Tienen ellos derecho a pensar y exclamar que los gilipollas/capullos son USTEDES, en su situación?




The TL;DR version was already posted:

Dochartaigh wrote:
Does this seem completely messed-up to anybody else, or is it just me?

I mean, it's good they're going to finally fix their previously flawed product they released, but I ONLY purchased the still-flawed ~$300usd SSDS3 because: A.) there is NO other device which plays hucard AND disc games, and B.) because Terraonion ADAMANTLY, and I mean swore left and right, repeatedly, over and over again, that they would NEVER, EVER, under ANY circumstances redesign the board to fix these issues.

So now here are a TON of customers who caved in and bought their flawed product because they thought (because of Terraonion's own words and actions) "this is the best it will ever get", and now, again, they (for lack of a nicer way to put this) screw those customers over.

And yes, I know this is a bit convoluted to say that fixing it is a bad thing in any way, but the fact of the matter is for those of us who have a sub-par unit (which if they can't do the mods/fixes themselves just added ~$100 more to the already-high ~$300 price tag), it certainly is.



Again, forgive the long, boring post. Hopefully everybody "pissed" drops by and we can let Terraonion know that the issue won't be forgotten any time soon.

Also, huge thanks to all the people involved in doing the company's work and finding where the technical issues reside, as well as providing us with a solution. Sadly, it's not within everybody's reach.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:12 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 530
"Gee, why won't TO talk to their customers? Why do they seem so annoyed when they do show up?" Goes on long, hate-filled rant against TO. "It's a mystery!"

This has been covered like a million times in this very thread already. Fanning old flames isn't going to help. They are not compensating past purchasers, much like every other business on the planet does not compensate purchasers of previous models. No one asked for a discount when the 1-chip replaced the original SNES. Or the NES-101 replaced the NES-001 and fixed what could objectively be described as flaws. or, shoot, literally every console revision ever "fixed" something. It's just the way technology and business work. Perhaps we could get back to discussing the product now?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:39 pm 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 48
As far as I know, Nintendo did never state a revision wouldn't ever happen. They also released the 1-chip like 5 years after the first model. Anyway, comparing Terraonion with Nintendo or the big ones dictating "how business works" is nuts.


Also, no, nobody addressed Neodev's post in detail and the post was approved by the moderation, so "discuss the product" at your will and just ignore the other subject like any normal person would do. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:59 pm 


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Posts: 643
Location: Rome
This topic has been already discussed ad nauseam.

I knew this would happen, so let me just ask you one thing, mostly out of curiosity:

Let's get back in time before this last revision was done. Rule out the possibility of making one and giving it for free for all the customers which have an older revision, because they already did that and it's not economically viable.

Giving the possibility of making a new revision, would you have preferred to have people sticking with their imperfect board (and all future customers)?

Because that would have been the only alternative.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:05 pm 



Joined: 14 Mar 2019
Posts: 27
Location: UK
FBX wrote:
PaTaito wrote:

Would it be possible to point out which components would need removing should i want to use the modboard again on the new revision? I would really appreciate this if it would not be putting you out too much?



Remove the following:

C35, C36, C74, C76, R29.

Tack your power line to the top pad of R29.
Tack your left audio input line to the bottom pad of C76.
Tack your right audio input line to the bottom pad of C74.
Tack your left audio output line to the top pad of C36 (if you want to wire back to the SSDS3 board, but results are better using a separate output jack for audio).
Tack your right audio output line to the top pad of C35 (if you want to wire back to the SSDS3 board, but results are better using a separate output jack for audio).
Tack ground to the same pin as before.

Edit: One extra step I forgot: On the bypass board, you'll need to remove R1 and R4 and bridge the pads for them. This is because the mixing resistor values were raised on the Rev B SSDS3 boards.

-FBX


Thanks a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:31 pm 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 48
donluca wrote:
This topic has been already discussed ad nauseam.


First and foremost and to be perfectly clear and honest with you all, I'm not really trying to discuss the topic since I don't think there's much room for discussion, the proof being that Terraonion themselves aren't even appearing in their own forum and what they ("he", actually. We all know now who's this company's actual problem at this point) did here was anything but "discuss". My intention is to indeed "fan the flame" so that the subject doesn't get forgotten as the TO guys want. Letting the people know how this "company" treats their customers since it seems most are seeing this as a case of "a company which just improves their product", when it's much more than that. To sum it up:

- They had the chance of improving it much earlier but instead preferred to call everybody a troll

- They were silently working on a fixed version while saying at the same time that it would never happen so that the flawed units they still had could stock out

- They release the fixed version at the same price without a word in their official channels, ignoring the customers' e-mails and inquiries but! insulting all of them with an arrogant, laughable post in an external forum. Not a single "we're sorry". Just "shit happens", "if you don't like us and what we do, you're an asshole"

Rest assured I'll be spreading the word anywhere I can and with the hope that the people "pissed" like I am join the cause so that Terraonion understands that getting your customers "pissed" twice is a bad idea.

(Again, sorry for being late and for using this forum for that!)



Quote:
Let's get back in time before this last revision was done. Rule out the possibility of making one and giving it for free for all the customers which have an older revision, because they already did that and it's not economically viable.

Giving the possibility of making a new revision, would you have preferred to have people sticking with their imperfect board (and all future customers)?

Because that would have been the only alternative.


I already said that making a fixed revision is the good thing to do (please, read my post!). Now there are many ways not to "piss" so much your old customers, even ruling out the possibility of giving the new revision for free:

- Charge them the very minimum to barely cover shipping and production

- Offer a discount of some kind

- Listen to them, there may be very few people interested once you explain the thing to them

- Explain ANYTHING in your official channels

- Be polite, non-rude, attend your customers' inquiries/e-mails

- Don't leave your official forum to a guy who is not really part of the company therefore can't take decisions

- At the very least, be honest, call the new revision "SSDS3-2019" and set a higher price for it


So the problem is, the only good thing they did was fixing the flawed product. You people without a flawed device should empathize a lil bit more, it's not that hard, c'mon.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:48 pm 


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Don't know exactly what planet you live on, but Terraonion is one of the most transparent and open companies I've ever seen.

I'm not sure if you had the time to wade through the last 10 pages or so, Alex himself came here and told us in a very detailed fashion everything that happened and the reasons behind each decision.

Giving a small discount to upgrade to the new unit might actually be a good and viable thing, something like a 10% or 20% off the new revision (this could apply to future products as well and it might be really cool and a great way to keep customers coming back).

Now, take a good look around at all the companies you know and tell me which one comes down to the people's level and take a broad slice of his time to reply to user and tell them what happened and why.
No one will. Trust me on this one, because each company has what I call "their little dirty secrets" and don't want to make them public.

Alex came here, apologized and recognized that mistakes were made and those were due to their lack of experience in the business field and analog circuitry. Both of these are caused because TO is not a true "company", but rather a group of retro-gaming enthusiasts which make devices mainly for themselves (this was always their agenda, they do what they like and enjoy) and then sell it to other people to enjoy.
They are not Nintendo, nor Samsung or Sony and you can't blame them for that or we would be paying 10x the cost for those devices and receiving *ZERO* transparency about what's behind the curtain.

It's no use hiding that there have been big mistakes in this product and the way they managed it, but that's the risk of running a small company without much business insight. And, let me tell you, I've seen WAY worse things from other small companies working in the "retro" market.

Let's just hope they learned their lesson and their future products will be flawless, like their NeoSD is.

EDIT: about empathizing with people with flawed products: I am a Mac user and I've been fucked in the ass by Apple not once, but twice, due to flawed product.
First one is a 11" macbook air which after 1 year had one half of the screen darker (and then 2 years later died completely) and they asked 400€ to fix it (I paid 1600€ for it).
Second is my 27" iMac (2800€) which had a flawed HDD which they refused to change and wanted to charge me 200€ to swap it.

And this is Apple, not TerraOnion.
The list could go on with Samsung, Sony, Huawei, MOTU, ASUS and many other big name brands.
Flawed products happen even to the biggest companies and TO swapped their first revision for an upgraded one *FOR FREE*.
TO has behaved better than a multi-billion company despite the huge financial hit this brought to them.

Come and talk to my face again about flawed products and how I should be empathizing with SSD3 users, please.


Last edited by donluca on Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:51 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 530
People have been "pissed" for years now. Nothing has changed. You act like this is something new, but it's not. You can gather all the hate you want, but honestly I think most people are just tired of hearing it. Either enjoy the product or don't, nothing is going to change. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Speaking of reading, you did read the last like 5 pages before the new revision came out, right? They have been listening. They worked with Mobius and FBX (and potentially others) to try to get this revision right before putting it out. Is it perfect? Apparently not, but it's pretty good and probably about as good as it's going to get at this point. So, again, enjoy it or don't. Buy it or don't. Coming in here just to yell at people is a) not going to change anything and b) probably just going to make people want to help you even less.

For the record, "don't buy it" is exactly what I did. I have a briefcase setup with a Turbo Everdrive and you know what? It works great for me, though based on FBX's screenshots, I think I've actually got more video noise than the SSDS3. So honestly, SSDS3 would probably be an improvement for me. The point is that there are other options, no one is making you buy this.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:06 pm 



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Using this more I gotta side closer to the people who were saying the audio noise borders on the unacceptable. It can get pretty bad...

Is anyone still selling the bypass boards to do the mod FBX described above?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:09 pm 


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donluca wrote:
Terraonion is one of the most transparent and open companies I've ever seen.

Seriously?! You and I have very different understanding regarding the definitions of the words "transparent and open." Terraonion representatives have blatantly lied in official statements multiple times. I'm not upset about them releasing a new revision of the SSDS3. But I am upset with Terraonion's lying, poor communication, and lack of remorse.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:05 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
Using this more I gotta side closer to the people who were saying the audio noise borders on the unacceptable. It can get pretty bad...

Is anyone still selling the bypass boards to do the mod FBX described above?


I still do myself. I also offer the boards OSH Park for people that want to assemble the boards on their own.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:29 am 


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the Goat wrote:
Seriously?! You and I have very different understanding regarding the definitions of the words "transparent and open." Terraonion representatives have blatantly lied in official statements multiple times. I'm not upset about them releasing a new revision of the SSDS3. But I am upset with Terraonion's lying, poor communication, and lack of remorse.


I urge you to go back some pages in this thread and read NeoDev's posts.
The guy lost sleep and got sick due to the situation and tried to come up with a solution trying to make everyone happy (while, I may add, being 100% aware that it was absolutely impossible).

They do care and they said more than once that they were sorry and told how the whole story unfolded.
They also apologized in more than one occasion, admitting their mistakes.

I wonder what more they could have done.
I mean, of course, they could have talked to the gurus first hand and avoided all this mess, but that's how it went and you can't go back in time.

And, please, do realize they didn't have *at all* to reach out and tell the whole story, like 99,99999999% of the companies do when they fuck up. They didn't have to do that, and still they exposed themselves, knowing that no matter what, there would be backlash.

I'm not trying to defend them, especially when they admitted their mistakes themselves, just pointing out some actual facts.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:49 am 


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They rushed out every revision and only had a handful of units tested by randoms each time, mostly by eye and ear.

As far as I can tell there was never a decent scale scope check on any revision.

You would think they'd have learnt the first time to check everything thoroughly and professionally.. but excuses and sad stories seems like the go to plan for Alex.

The secret new product has this same buzzing issue, so it's a problem with their pcb designer/EE.
Time to do some research on the relationship between analog and digital signals and how to correctly route them, or find a real EE.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:50 am 


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donluca wrote:
I urge you to go back some pages in this thread and read NeoDev's posts.

I have read every single post in this thread.

donluca wrote:
They do care and they said more than once that they were sorry and told how the whole story unfolded.
They also apologized in more than one occasion, admitting their mistakes.

I've seen numerous times when they provided excuse after excuse for why it wasn't their fault. I've never seen them take responsibility or issue an actual heartfelt apology.

donluca wrote:
I wonder what more they could have done.

They needed to communicate their intentions regarding releasing a new SSDS3 hardware revision in a clear and timely manor. Instead they choose to lie about the hardware revision in an effort to deceive their customers.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:16 am 


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I just don't understand why I only get very faint buzzing on my Rev B unit. I mean, I have to take some of the blame here because I signed off on it when I tested mine. The noise didn't sound any louder than my typical bypass installs. I don't get it.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:18 am 



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Posts: 48
thebigcheese wrote:
Coming in here just to yell at people


I tried emailing Terraonion. No answer. Another user asked in the official forum. No reply. The only "explanation" on the subject I found was here. Again, you don't need to read my posts.




Since you people persist on setting an analogy with Nintendo, Apple or whatever big one, let me know one only case please where any of these explicitely stated that they would never release a revised product version fixing certain flaws when explicitely asked. And then, another when they do it just a few months later.

If you still want to go on with the comparison, let us know when a device from those whose new A/V output was used as a selling point feature suffered from clear A/V issues. I'm not talking about your usual jailbars or mild noise hard to see unless you use a digital converter, but of (diagonal) visual noise it's IMPOSSIBLE not to see and get distracted by with a CRT.

donluca wrote:
Alex came here, apologized and recognized that mistakes were made and those were due to their lack of experience in the business field and analog circuitry. Both of these are caused because TO is not a true "company", but rather a group of retro-gaming enthusiasts which make devices mainly for themselves (this was always their agenda, they do what they like and enjoy) and then sell it to other people to enjoy.


I'm sorry but now you're definitely sounding like a fanboy. The guy came here and basically called everybody not agreeing with him and his methods an asshole. As a customer, I felt insulted. Twice, since I'm still waiting for an answer after a very respectful e-mail. And judging by his behaviour here and the Neogeo forum when the product was announced, it seems it's the guy's natural attitude. He just lacks the manners and matureness. Thinking of they as a "group of retro-gaming enthusiasts" when he laughed out loudly at the people concerned about good RGB/audio signals or when he has the knowledge he has of the PC Engine and its relevance will not be swallowed by many, but believing that they do what they do just for their love towards the games and not for the money is beyond any sense.


Quote:
They do care


No mate. If they did, early customers would indeed have already an apologize (haven't found it, no matter what you say) and, at the very least, the option of purchasing the new revision for a price just covering shipping and production costs. No loss for them. Indeed, I don't believe there would be any loss even if they got back the old flawed PCBs and send the new fixed PCB to those willing to pay the shipping, as I'm sure there's a market for the old version if it comes from TO at a cheaper price.


And for the record, I wanted all this time to be indulgent. I wanted for them a huge success being a Spanish house given that nobody else here has made anything remarkable for the community till now, and just for that I ordered the device (as well as a console, cables, etc. as I mentioned) as soon as I read "RGB output". I was dissapointed with the overall quality (and the cheap Commodore look of everything, while we're on it, this is the fucking Japanese PC Engine, geez) and yet, never complained anywhere. But the way they've handled this new revision thing (again: there's not a word on it in their official channels yet!) and the guy's attitude against well-reasoned criticism have got me back into consciousness: they are and behave exactly like any nameless Chinese maker. No wonder in 2019 the people still think of this country in those terms with "companies" like Terraonion. Well deserved, after all.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:38 am 


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FBX wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
Using this more I gotta side closer to the people who were saying the audio noise borders on the unacceptable. It can get pretty bad...

Is anyone still selling the bypass boards to do the mod FBX described above?


I still do myself. I also offer the boards OSH Park for people that want to assemble the boards on their own.


I just tried to buy a board but it says I can’t because I’m not in US


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:38 am 


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Syntax wrote:
They rushed out every revision and only had a handful of units tested by randoms each time, mostly by eye and ear.

As far as I can tell there was never a decent scale scope check on any revision.

You would think they'd have learnt the first time to check everything thoroughly and professionally.. but excuses and sad stories seems like the go to plan for Alex.

The secret new product has this same buzzing issue, so it's a problem with their pcb designer/EE.
Time to do some research on the relationship between analog and digital signals and how to correctly route them, or find a real EE.


Amen. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice--shame on me. This is the third revision (or more?!) to this board and they still don't get it. I should have known to stay away. This leopard isn't changing it's spots.

FBX wrote:
I just don't understand why I only get very faint buzzing on my Rev B unit. I mean, I have to take some of the blame here because I signed off on it when I tested mine. The noise didn't sound any louder than my typical bypass installs. I don't get it.


You signing off on it was a big reason I pulled the trigger. To be fair, I shouldn't have jumped the gun and gone with an n=1 appraisal. I don't know what kind of voodoo setup you're rocking, but it's clearly more resistant to EMI than mine. The same cables work fine on my MD without any hint of buzzing. Thank god I didn't sell my Duo to fund this purchase...


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:06 am 


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HDgaming42 wrote:
You signing off on it was a big reason I pulled the trigger. To be fair, I shouldn't have jumped the gun and gone with an n=1 appraisal. I don't know what kind of voodoo setup you're rocking, but it's clearly more resistant to EMI than mine.


Super Grafx and HD Retrovision cables was all I used. Edit: And a Triad power supply with a custom 3mm inner barrel diameter.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:14 am 



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Posts: 617
PCEs are a bit buzzy themselves. Using headphones out of my stereo amplifier I can definitely hear a buzz on the output of my white PCE and my IFU, though the SSDS3's sounds definitely louder and higher pitch/whinier. Whatever is on the screen affects it too. When loading a CD image, whenever the "Press Run Button" message pops up every second you can hear the buzz become louder. This definitely is not headphones friendly. Feels even worse than my Famicom.

It could also be that some PCEs have more buzz than others. Perhaps the old white PCE is the worst and later CoreGrafx II and SuperGrafx are better? We know that they tend to have less video noise/jailbars too so it wouldn't surprise me. This makes me think that tacking FBX's amp on top of this rev. B may only go so far. What we really want here is digital audio out!


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:22 am 



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Posts: 617
Also anyone with testing equipment should try to compare audio noise loading HuCard games from the SSDS3's memory card versus an Everdrive, both outputting through the SSDS3. Just going by what my ear hears, I feel there's more noise when loading from the SD card vs. the Everdrive.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:27 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
What we really want here is digital audio out!


Console side audio is analog only, so you still have to process that into an ADC and DSP to mix the two sources. In other words, there's going to be unavoidable noise even with that method, and it's considerably more complicated and expensive to produce.


LDigital wrote:

I just tried to buy a board but it says I can’t because I’m not in US


If you don't mind doing a little assembly, you can get the board plates from OSH Park:

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/toEy2VLz

BoM link shows all the parts needed, though you can cut down to two 10K Ohm resistors if you're bypassing a Rev B board (because R1 and R4 should be bridged on the bypass board instead).
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