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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:49 am 


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Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 1117
I believe there is still a large untapped market for this product. Many people (myself included) are still watching and waiting to see how the SSD3 evolves from here.

My advice is to take as much time as you need to get this next hardware revision right.

Let your new SSD3 version do the talking for you. :) I still want one.

------------

I admit, I have zero confidence in your customer service. I saw your lackeys swinging that banhammer around at the "support" forum and I'm still disgusted.

But, I'd still buy an SSD3 if I believed I wouldn't need any customer service support.

Just being honest, but I have that privilege here. This discussion is magnificent because you have no power to control the narrative here.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:53 am 



Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 134
Neodev wrote:
i asume you are the one i discused with on discord the entire saturday about this and didn´t get enough.

Nope, not me.

Neodev wrote:
We wanted the new board version, and we decided to not anounce it to not piss previous customers, to us the better way to have as less people as possible pissed, it was silent introduce it.

You could have announced the new revision then put your remaining stock on sale. That would be the way to minimize the number of pissed off customers. But that would involve Terraonion potentially lowering their profit margin. Why am I supposed to believe you are not "only here to make money" when your actions say otherwise?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:58 am 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 78
orange808 wrote:
I believe there is still a large untapped market for this product. Many people (myself included) are still watching and waiting to see how the SSD3 evolves from here.

My advice is to take as much time as you need to get this next hardware revision right.

Let your new SSD3 version do the talking for you. :) I still want one.

------------

I admit, I have zero confidence in your customer service. I saw your lackeys swinging that banhammer around at the "support" forum and I'm still disgusted.

But, I'd still buy an SSD3 if I believed I wouldn't need any customer service support.

Just being honest, but I have that privilege here. This discussion is magnificent because you have no power to control the narrative here.



There is a person dedicated to support since 3 months ago, before that we were doing our best (that was not the best at all when you have to deal with company, development, production, paperwork, shipments and so). You can´t be born with the same infraestructe Amazon or Microsft have today.
Building a company is : so much to do with few resources.

About the ban : as far as i know there has only one guy been banned since we created the forums, and believe me that he deserved it, he decided to do a personal attack over Todd, so he took the decision to ban him and i know Todd pretty well to know if he banned him it was cause there was no other way. Once thing is what the banned guy story tells and another one is the complete story.
As far as i know, we don´t edit people´s posts and we let eveyone speak about anything : good or bad.

About the new products : 2,5 years in development, and you can be sure that other mistakes may show, but not the same ones we did with SSDS3.

For reference : there is only 1 revision of NEOSD AES and NEOSD MVS out there. We never did another revision than the original launch one. I wish the same had happened with SSDS3, it was our intention to be this way.
Shit happens and it happens to everyone, it dosen´t matters if you are Samsung or Terraonion.



the Goat wrote:
Neodev wrote:
i asume you are the one i discused with on discord the entire saturday about this and didn´t get enough.

Nope, not me.

Neodev wrote:
We wanted the new board version, and we decided to not anounce it to not piss previous customers, to us the better way to have as less people as possible pissed, it was silent introduce it.

You could have announced the new revision then put your remaining stock on sale. That would be the way to minimize the number of pissed off customers. But that would involve Terraonion potentially lowering their profit margin. Why am I supposed to believe you are not "only here to make money" when your actions say otherwise?


There is no way to not piss some people on this situation
You would be happy this way but the ones that purchased it at full price would be pissed. This is one of the main reasons why we don´t lower prices. We preffer to sell less (cause after one year, sales on any product go down) ratter than do discounts and early adopters suffer a deperciacion.

Again : there wasn´t a good solution that would make everyone happy : if you inprove the product you have some customers pissed, if you don´t improve it you will have those customers pissed or other guys that are not your customers at all pissed.

People asked for the improvement, here it is. It will not make anyone happy for sure


Last edited by Neodev on Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:05 am 


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Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 1117
@neodev
Let's agree to disagree. I'm not going to revisit all the details or argue about the past.

If your next revision is really great, I'm going to buy one--and (I believe) lots of other people will do the same.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:09 am 



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 90
orange808 wrote:

I admit, I have zero confidence in your customer service. I saw your lackeys swinging that banhammer around at the "support" forum and I'm still disgusted.

But, I'd still buy an SSD3 if I believed I wouldn't need any customer service support.

Just being honest, but I have that privilege here. This discussion is magnificent because you have no power to control the narrative here.



I am interested in hearing more about the supposed "lackeys" swinging banhammer.

Do you have specific details?

Outside of legitimate spam bots, I have banned precisely 2 people since we opened the forum. One was a troll of who would repeatedly create fake accounts and post some downright nasty things trying to incite a fight. I believe he was also banned from Shmups and NG.

And the other was an angry customer who posted a couple times that he was displeased with our sales system and he went out of his way to drop my name multiple times including linking to my Twitter account. If you look at this individuals website you can see where he goes as far as to dox other people. No forum is cool with that.


Anyone who says that we wildly ban people who speak out or say things against us is simply misinformed or flat out lying. 99% of the forum housekeeping is done by me so I know what is up.
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Last edited by broken on Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:13 am 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 78
orange808 wrote:
@neodev
Let's agree to disagree. I'm not going to revisit all the details or argue about the past.

If your next revision is really great, I'm going to buy one--and (I believe) lots of other people will do the same.


I will tell you what i told to fbx and mobius :

RGB wise i can´t spot the difference (neither on the factory produced boards or on the prototypes that are the same board, one soldered by hand, the others factory soldered), but they said (based on the prototype i sent them that there is a difference).

BTW : i am not here to sell anything at all, i am visceral guy in a lot of things but you can believe me that i always try to do the best : to deliver the best possible protduct and the best possible solution. There is a learning curve and we underestimated the importance of the analog signals, our team was compossed by digital engineers, no one here was expert in analog.

Anyways, i am glad to answer anyone but i just want to ask back some respect as i am having from you now. This is the main reason we decided to not answer back here for one year.

Alex,


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:39 am 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 78
BTW, i just woke up and realized that i didn´t said thanks to Voultar, FBX and mobiusstriptech

Thanks for your help and for having patience talking me, most of the time last year my life was like a total rollercoaster, sleeping few hours a day, not being able to rest anything at all. And starting the day the same way it ended : full of stress.


Everytime my wife asks me what the hell i am doing with my life, i tell her next month we will see some light.

Alex,


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:17 am 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 1186
Location: Australia
For the hours and dollars mobius put in designing testing and making bypass boards to fix your poorly designed product id hope he gets more than just a thanks.
He came good where you guys didn't and was installing them free and charging cost price for parts.

Same goes for FBX and his audio work.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:36 am 



Joined: 23 Oct 2014
Posts: 22
So...

... are all current purchase SSDS3s now "Rev. 3" / "2019 model" units?
TO website states 'Last items in stock'... when is a/the new batch due in?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:21 pm 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 1186
Location: Australia
Probably when all the old units are sold.

Kinda hard to sell both at the same time unless you discount the older model significantly.

Would of been a good idea not to tell anyone about the fixed rev 3 until the majority of previous revisions were sold or they'd be stuck with a heap of stock no one wants.

Oh wait...


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:22 pm 


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Posts: 11665
Location: Germany
@Neodev: Alex, thanks for taking the time to post over here. Despite any flaws of the previous revision or a few unhappy fellows, the SSD3 is such an incredible product. Thanks for bringing it to life!

Do you still have some stock of the previous revision? I still have an RGB and audio mod board left which I wouldn't mind using.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:22 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 78
nam9 wrote:
So...

... are all current purchase SSDS3s now "Rev. 3" / "2019 model" units?
TO website states 'Last items in stock'... when is a/the new batch due in?



The batch arrived last thurstday but we had to go to Madrid to record the video for new products anouncement, so we started to process the batch yesrteday and we start to ship all backorders today. We should be up to date this week, and there is stock yes, i don´t know the quantities we put on the shop but the "last items in stock" was not intentionted at all, i think the shop does that based on a fixed number, will check that latter

EDIT : just to clarify that we don´t have any old pcb in stock


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:56 pm 



Joined: 23 Oct 2014
Posts: 22
Good to know!

Looking forward to your upcoming products too!


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:07 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 78
Fudoh wrote:
@Neodev: Alex, thanks for taking the time to post over here. Despite any flaws of the previous revision or a few unhappy fellows, the SSD3 is such an incredible product. Thanks for bringing it to life!

Do you still have some stock of the previous revision? I still have an RGB and audio mod board left which I wouldn't mind using.



We have stock of the first batch of boards that we replaced, i am using those boards now to rip the FPGAS and the ARMS to build prototypes (soldered by hand) for other products.

But honestly, i preffer to use a hammer over those ratter than sell those or give those for free. We don´t want any troubles or claims from anyone, so better get those boards out of the market.

The inmediate previous board version got sold out before christmas, so all the boards we have in stock now are the new version that includes fbx, mobius and voultar fixes


BTW if you think SSDS3 is an incredible product, just wait and see what we are going to show in 3-4 weeks. I don´t think anyone has done such a deep product or achieve what we did this time. No one is going to be dissapointed, wait and see

Alex,
Alex,


Last edited by Neodev on Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:22 pm 


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Joined: 17 Jan 2016
Posts: 257
Thanks for all the hard work. I have the V2 board but am probably going to get the final board also.

I Can’t wait to see what the new thing is.

I had issues with my V1 but appreciated how that was handled and exchanged.
I said it before and I’ll say it again, the whole show has been a non stop whinge fest. I would have probably packed it in long ago if I were you.

The lesson here is that the internet tech community is relentlessly brutal even to things and hobbies that they love. Make sure that whatever you are making is perfectly baked before letting a single one leave the factory. Your hairline and wife will appreciate it.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:36 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 78
LDigital wrote:
Thanks for all the hard work. I have the V2 board but am probably going to get the final board also.

I Can’t wait to see what the new thing is.

I had issues with my V1 but appreciated how that was handled and exchanged.
I said it before and I’ll say it again, the whole show has been a non stop whinge fest. I would have probably packed it in long ago if I were you.

The lesson here is that the internet tech community is relentlessly brutal even to things and hobbies that they love. Make sure that whatever you are making is perfectly baked before letting a single one leave the factory. Your hairline and wife will appreciate it.


Yes, and this is the reason why even we have stock of the current boards for the new project, we are not going to send one to anyone that is not involved on the project, until we got the final production boards built and we are 100% sure everything is ok. An believe me, compatibility is the same as SSDS3 for whatever it is ... We just don´t want another shit war this time, i don´t think i could live with all this again.

If shit happens again, there will be a delay even this delay causes the company to die cause the money income stops so we can´t pay the exmployees.

This is what we did with NEOSD PRO, we sent final boards to Razoola to ensure everything is ok, even we knew those were ok, we wanted to double check we just didn´t saw something comming. We are doing the similar thing with the next projects.


Anyways, thanks for the coments.

Alex,


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:54 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 410
Thanks for confirming the info on the new board Neodev. It's clear that you have been under a lot of stress, but thing should get better as you move forward with the new board as well as the new products you'll be launching. Best of luck and thanks for your contributions to the retro gaming scene.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:09 pm 


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Joined: 23 Dec 2016
Posts: 202
Location: Ohio,USA
Assuming at this point I have Alex's permission. I can share details from the testing I did on the new board revision.

The most important thing, which I think is a question that current owners may have, is this board "better" than the last one? Yes and no. It's better in that it has the add-on boards already installed, but the output results are basically the same. Comparing the previous revision with both the FBX and FU-RGB boards to this new revision, the difference in signal quality is so minor that it can only be seen via machines. It will not be discernible by human eyes or ears. FBX can of course detail his thoughts on this as well.

On the video side the signal output is the same as using the FU-RGB. There is slightly less noise in the signal but that doesn't translate to anything noticeable on screen. The ~$300 question, should you replace your current board with the new one. Nope. If you already have the FU-RGB and FBX amp, you have the same thing for all intents and purposes. If you don't have the add-on boards and don't notice any of the issues, cool. You are all set still, just keep using your device and have fun.

I am not a member of TO. I have no insight into their operations behind the scenes. I do think that some credit should be given to Alex for coming on here and laying everything out on the table. Along with admitting that mistakes were made and they are learning from them. Does that forgive everything that has transpired? No. However, we all have the choice to decide if we want to continue holding onto the past or move forward.

If you hate TO, that's your right. If you love TO, that's your right too. I personally love what the SSDS3 represents/provides me. I am just glad that I will soon be able to maybe sit down and actually play some games on mine. Right after I finish the remaining installs for some of you. I hope everyone that owns one of these currently enjoys it, or gets to enjoy it now. For the people that held out and plan to purchase now, I hope you enjoy it too.

With Alex's permission I will post some captures for everyone later. Otherwise when he gives the go ahead I will do so.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:20 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 78
Mobiusstriptech wrote:
Assuming at this point I have Alex's permission. I can share details from the testing I did on the new board revision.

The most important thing, which I think is a question that current owners may have, is this board "better" than the last one? Yes and no. It's better in that it has the add-on boards already installed, but the output results are basically the same. Comparing the previous revision with both the FBX and FU-RGB boards to this new revision, the difference in signal quality is so minor that it can only be seen via machines. It will not be discernible by human eyes or ears. FBX can of course detail his thoughts on this as well.

On the video side the signal output is the same as using the FU-RGB. There is slightly less noise in the signal but that doesn't translate to anything noticeable on screen. The ~$300 question, should you replace your current board with the new one. Nope. If you already have the FU-RGB and FBX amp, you have the same thing for all intents and purposes. If you don't have the add-on boards and don't notice any of the issues, cool. You are all set still, just keep using your device and have fun.

I am not a member of TO. I have no insight into their operations behind the scenes. I do think that some credit should be given to Alex for coming on here and laying everything out on the table. Along with admitting that mistakes were made and they are learning from them. Does that forgive everything that has transpired? No. However, we all have the choice to decide if we want to continue holding onto the past or move forward.

If you hate TO, that's your right. If you love TO, that's your right too. I personally love what the SSDS3 represents/provides me. I am just glad that I will soon be able to maybe sit down and actually play some games on mine. Right after I finish the remaining installs for some of you. I hope everyone that owns one of these currently enjoys it, or gets to enjoy it now. For the people that held out and plan to purchase now, I hope you enjoy it too.

With Alex's permission I will post some captures for everyone later. Otherwise when he gives the go ahead I will do so.


Mobius,

You know you don´t have to ask me for permision about anything.

Its sad cause a lot of things that happened last year and that affected not only my health but the health from the people that sourrounds me (this is my family, my partner and the rest of the TO team) could be saved with a bit of patience. And this is something that we all both (manufacturer) and you (customers/friends) should think about. With a bit of patience we would all have saved most of the bad moments we lived last year. We all had those bad moments, we and you all.

On my side, this situation killed my nervs totally. And i hate that i wasn´t able to keep a better mod with some people such as Voultar, i really feel sorry about that. Even Voultar and myself is like fire and water, inside me i really apreciate him. And what he did sharing his design with us says a lot about him after how bad i did with him.

Ofcourse i can say the same about you, and what can i say about FBX ? the amount of time he spent with us for free, even we offered him to get payed, is nothing else than love for what he does. Same love we all got for retro gaming in TO.

All i want for this year is : the same as last year. Release the new projects, have everyone happy and us being able to hire more people and grow, so i can get a part of my life back and focus on thinking new products.

I speak for myself but what i look for is the same as anyone that develops something and loves his work : i want the aceptation of our products by our customers, cause this means i/we did a good work. And there is nothing that dignifies more an human than his own work.

Alex,


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:23 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 445
Neodev wrote:
I have to say that a part of me feels ashamed and the other one feels sick after reading what some of you say/think about us.

Did you feel ashamed or sick after lying to everyone about me? Do you feel even a little remorse for trying to ruin my reputation and tell everyone I "demanded stuff for free"...even AFTER I jumped on here to defend you just a few pages ago? How would you feel if people believed your lies and I had to shut down RetroRGB? Proud of your lies...or are you so fucked up, you believe your lies as truth, even after proof is shown?

Neodev wrote:
I speak for myself but what i look for is the same as anyone that develops something and loves his work : i want the aceptation of our products by our customers, cause this means i/we did a good work. And there is nothing that dignifies more an human than his own work.


Fuck you Alex - You can't treat people the way you do and then say "but we just were passionate about our products". People are too quick to forget the things you did, as long as they're getting the products they want...yet I image those same people would feel VERY different if you did to THEM what you did to me, Beast and many others. If you did it once, you'll do it again and any trolls thinking of responding to this should consider that first: What if next time Alex looses his shit, it's at YOU?


I've been testing a modified SSDS3 for a PCE video airing this week. After the fixes are applied, it works PERFECT. Stable firmware, full game support, excellent RGB & audio output. I hope you all enjoy it, but I'll never give Alex one penny of my money ever again.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:52 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 78
retrorgb wrote:
Neodev wrote:
I have to say that a part of me feels ashamed and the other one feels sick after reading what some of you say/think about us.

Did you feel ashamed or sick after lying to everyone about me? Do you feel even a little remorse for trying to ruin my reputation and tell everyone I "demanded stuff for free"...even AFTER I jumped on here to defend you just a few pages ago? How would you feel if people believed your lies and I had to shut down RetroRGB? Proud of your lies...or are you so fucked up, you believe your lies as truth, even after proof is shown?

Neodev wrote:
I speak for myself but what i look for is the same as anyone that develops something and loves his work : i want the aceptation of our products by our customers, cause this means i/we did a good work. And there is nothing that dignifies more an human than his own work.


Fuck you Alex - You can't treat people the way you do and then say "but we just were passionate about our products". People are too quick to forget the things you did, as long as they're getting the products they want...yet I image those same people would feel VERY different if you did to THEM what you did to me, Beast and many others. If you did it once, you'll do it again and any trolls thinking of responding to this should consider that first: What if next time Alex looses his shit, it's at YOU?


I've been testing a modified SSDS3 for a PCE video airing this week. After the fixes are applied, it works PERFECT. Stable firmware, full game support, excellent RGB & audio output. I hope you all enjoy it, but I'll never give Alex one penny of my money ever again.




Bob,

I know you want an apologize from me, but you are not going to get it until i got one from you for telling Darksoft piece of crap was better than NEOSD, when his junk device wasn't even a half working device at all.

You can continue flaming me/us until you fill my patience, or you can do what i did : put your energy and time in things that are worth and stop this stupid war you are playing.

BTW you were right about the RGB, you said it would be a pain and it was.

Alex


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:59 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 445
Neodev wrote:
I know you want an apologize from me, but you are not going to get it until i got one from you for telling Darksoft piece of crap was better than NEOSD, when his junk device wasn't even a half working device at all.

Thank you for proving my point - This was all because of your feud with Darksoft. Know what's funny? I've never once said his was better. Not once, anywhere ever. To this day I still praise the NeoSD's menu.


Neodev wrote:
You can continue flaming me/us until you fill my patience

Or what exactly? Are you forgetting I have all our emails? Would you like me to make a video showing exactly the type of person you are with indisputable proof that you're a liar?



Also, I don't want an apology. I wouldn't believe anything you said anyway. Know what I DO want? Post the firmware for your products without requiring people to register their devices. That way people can buy from resellers and you won't have the ability to expose personal information like you did to me. If you designed your products right in the first place, you wouldn't need serialized firmware.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:37 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 410
retrorgb wrote:
Post the firmware for your products without requiring people to register their devices.


With all the differences and prior conflicts, if there is only ONE thing everyone comes to agree on, please let it be this (PSIO team if you're reading this, please also post your firmwares publicly again).


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:41 pm 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 78
retrorgb wrote:
Neodev wrote:
I know you want an apologize from me, but you are not going to get it until i got one from you for telling Darksoft piece of crap was better than NEOSD, when his junk device wasn't even a half working device at all.

Thank you for proving my point - This was all because of your feud with Darksoft. Know what's funny? I've never once said his was better. Not once, anywhere ever. To this day I still praise the NeoSD's menu.


Neodev wrote:
You can continue flaming me/us until you fill my patience

Or what exactly? Are you forgetting I have all our emails? Would you like me to make a video showing exactly the type of person you are with indisputable proof that you're a liar?



Also, I don't want an apology. I wouldn't believe anything you said anyway. Know what I DO want? Post the firmware for your products without requiring people to register their devices. That way people can buy from resellers and you won't have the ability to expose personal information like you did to me. If you designed your products right in the first place, you wouldn't need serialized firmware.



Bob,

I told people you sold your NEOSD and i see this was important to you,
To me this was not leaking pesonal information at all, but i can understand this can be for others. So i will take care about this never happen again.

BTW :We never share any personal customer data from our database with someone else, neither we use the emails to send spam, we are not spammers and our busines is not to deal with personal information at all, personal information is just needed to ship packets and send emails to customers if there is any issue with his order and similar things

About the serial numbers : this is part of our anti clone system, to avoid chineses from cloning our devices, it was never designed for anything else.


Alex,


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:28 am 


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In other news, there's something I never was quite sure about concerning the SSDS3 and in-game trigger hooking: Random crashes. Now when I first got my SSDS3, I didn't encounter any random crashes. However, after adding in my audio mod board, I started getting random crashes. I asked about the crashes on the TO support forums, and was told that random crashes happen with it anyway and it should be disabled. But it still nagged at me that somehow maybe my board was causing the 'chance' of crashing to increase?

I got an email from a customer that installed my board that they started getting random crashes. Sure enough, disabling in-gaming triggering stopped the crashes. However, just like me, he never noticed the crashes before installing the bypass board. What's even weirder is that if he uses the modded SSDS3 in conjunction with an Everdrive, there's no crashing. Completely strange behavior! But this all got me to thinking about experiments that need to be done:

1. Try removing the bypass audio board and playing without sound with a long enough play time to have reasonably expected a random crash. For me, Ghouls 'N Ghosts is an excellent test in that I never make it to stage 3 without a random crash with in-game trigger active.

2. Try moving the power access point to the other side of "FB4". I have it on the outside, but the original op-amp circuit tapped from the inside. If triggering still causes a random crash either way, I thought about proximity issues, and wiring the board such that it sits well outside the SSDS3 for some isolation tests.

I don't have time at the moment to conduct these tests, but it's something I'm very curious to get feedback on. It's either Proximity EMI, power source, or power drain related. But it is weird that using an everdrive at the same time prevents the random crashes, so I'm baffled as to the root cause.

-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:24 am 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 78
FBX wrote:
In other news, there's something I never was quite sure about concerning the SSDS3 and in-game trigger hooking: Random crashes. Now when I first got my SSDS3, I didn't encounter any random crashes. However, after adding in my audio mod board, I started getting random crashes. I asked about the crashes on the TO support forums, and was told that random crashes happen with it anyway and it should be disabled. But it still nagged at me that somehow maybe my board was causing the 'chance' of crashing to increase?

I got an email from a customer that installed my board that they started getting random crashes. Sure enough, disabling in-gaming triggering stopped the crashes. However, just like me, he never noticed the crashes before installing the bypass board. What's even weirder is that if he uses the modded SSDS3 in conjunction with an Everdrive, there's no crashing. Completely strange behavior! But this all got me to thinking about experiments that need to be done:

1. Try removing the bypass audio board and playing without sound with a long enough play time to have reasonably expected a random crash. For me, Ghouls 'N Ghosts is an excellent test in that I never make it to stage 3 without a random crash with in-game trigger active.

2. Try moving the power access point to the other side of "FB4". I have it on the outside, but the original op-amp circuit tapped from the inside. If triggering still causes a random crash either way, I thought about proximity issues, and wiring the board such that it sits well outside the SSDS3 for some isolation tests.

I don't have time at the moment to conduct these tests, but it's something I'm very curious to get feedback on. It's either Proximity EMI, power source, or power drain related. But it is weird that using an everdrive at the same time prevents the random crashes, so I'm baffled as to the root cause.

-FBX



FBX,

This gave us an idea why its failing. We are going to do some tests cause we think we may have to be able to fix it with this info.

We have sent you a message over the usual chanel.

Thanks


Alex,


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:03 am 


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I get why you'd need to sell through your inventory of the initial batch to avoid bankruptcy, what I still don't get is your insistence that you had to rush out a fix. People on this forum might be disappointed with a bit of RGB noise but there are plenty of people who would be entirely happy with the product as it is. I still had a lot of fun with mine and I'd still take rgb noise over the unreliable Super CD-ROM 2 unit I have.

The whole planned obsolescence we now have in the mobile phone sector mean most people don't get upset when a new model of something comes out, it's just expected.

I also offered to send you an OSSC for free for testing the new revision and you ignored me.

I echo what others have said, TAKE YOUR TIME over this new revision and fix all the issues, including the CD audio noise that's left even after the audio bypass is done.

You talk like the retro gaming community is out to savage anything you do but I don't think that's the case and if you hold up your hands and say "OK yes this doesn't work as well as it should, but we can't afford to simply fix everyone's unit for free" most people will understand.

(I recently had to refund a lot of RetroTINK 2x customers because the unit didn't work with PAL60, while not quite as dramatic I can feel some of your pain)
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:41 am 



Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 78
BuckoA51 wrote:
I get why you'd need to sell through your inventory of the initial batch to avoid bankruptcy, what I still don't get is your insistence that you had to rush out a fix. People on this forum might be disappointed with a bit of RGB noise but there are plenty of people who would be entirely happy with the product as it is. I still had a lot of fun with mine and I'd still take rgb noise over the unreliable Super CD-ROM 2 unit I have.

The whole planned obsolescence we now have in the mobile phone sector mean most people don't get upset when a new model of something comes out, it's just expected.

I also offered to send you an OSSC for free for testing the new revision and you ignored me.

I echo what others have said, TAKE YOUR TIME over this new revision and fix all the issues, including the CD audio noise that's left even after the audio bypass is done.

You talk like the retro gaming community is out to savage anything you do but I don't think that's the case and if you hold up your hands and say "OK yes this doesn't work as well as it should, but we can't afford to simply fix everyone's unit for free" most people will understand.

(I recently had to refund a lot of RetroTINK 2x customers because the unit didn't work with PAL60, while not quite as dramatic I can feel some of your pain)



Hello,

its a matter of action/reaction.

When we shipped the first batch and got the rgb issue, we had customers with backorders, you can browse back to this link and see how many people started to asking for refunds, but you can´t have an idea about the amount of emails we got at that time.

Also, when Bob did his videos, the amount of emails with people asking for refunds rised considerabily (Bob, no hard feelins here, i am just using this an example)

So, when we started Terraonion (october 2016) we were two engineers and myself.

I was doing company stuff (paperwork) but also factory sourcing, production, hiring people, thinking products, latter working on cardbox design, and answering customer emails.
As you may imaginate, factoring is not just send an email and get the batch produced, there are always issues (with times, parts, panels, shells, molds, and infinite list of things, this is dealing day after day, going to factory, doing phone calls ...)
On top of that, i was doing shipments and validating/serialized/mounting all our products. So others could focus on development.
The amoung of work charge was so big that i muyself have being working since October 2016 24/7 and 16 hours a day.

I decided that ratter than hire people to packing/serializing/shipping (to name one of the tasks i handle), we would put this money to hire two more engineers, so we could develop two projects at the same time.
On top of that we started a third project hiring another guy more, and we plan to hire another one this month. We are investing back every euro that comes. To name one thing, neither my partner (neodev) or myself have a salary since October 2017.

So, as you may imagine, if i spend my time answering emails i can´t spend it doing other things. And i can´t be answering everyone on forums cause right now i should be doing shipments, and this causes a delay that makes me live with an infinite task list that never ends.

You dont ship packets in 5 days and you get to answer emails from the customers waiting for theyr packets. Again : action/reaction.

On top of that, our webshop generates an invoice on the moment a customer pays a product. And Spain is a country with a medieval tax system based on rip people. We are forced to sumbit consecutive invoices and if we do a refund we have to make paperwork for each invoice, so more paperwork, and more work. This is the soley reason we don´t want to do refunds, i don´t want to work more, can´t live with more workload right now.

I think now you can have an image about why our email support was so terrible, i was breaking my ass out, i knew i wasn´t able to do all my task list and i had to decide what was prioritary and what not. So last November we were able to hire Todd, to manage customer support, he can tell you the amount of emails that arrive everyday and the time he spends doing PR on forums, twitter and so.
Thanks to Todd, everyone gets his answer now in one day (except on weekends that we work but we don´t answer emails), even with Todd, he still needs to ask me a lot of times each day about different support or company stuff, so in some way i still work on support but now we have a proper support, and this is great i must say.

So, the rushing on get the solution was to stop people from doing chargebacks and stop people sending emails asking for refunds and to lower the trashtalking and mad people.
I remember a guy saying here that he had zero confidence in our team and wanted a refund, he was a German guy and pissed me so much that i refunded him. I also remember that when i submited the refund i saw his email and realized he was a software engineer, on that moment i thought : what a dick, he may do perfect software and never had a bug on his work, so his boss or customers loose confidence and he gets fired.

Now, after a year that was a pain in the ass and in some way i don´t know if it made us/me stronger or it did a permanent menthal damage, we have it all shorted, we got two new products ready to market and we are a much better company/team. So if you ask me, i think it was worth the suffering, but it was not free.

About your OSSC offer :
correct me if i am wrong but i remember i contacted you wanting to purchase one and you offered me two shap me it for a NEOSD, so i never answered you back. I never answered you back cause this was on of the things that i preffer to think before answer and that get lost on the todo list cause its was not priority compared with the rest of the tasks, cause Todd that was already colaborating with us had an OSSC and was doing tests with it for us. I usually preffer to pay things ratter than to trades, so when a trade is offered i like to think about it ratter than fast answering.
Really sorry about not answering you back.
BTW, i still want to purchase one, didn´t tried again cause i heard most of the times those are not in stock.

Anyways, i have to go back to work.

Alex,


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:21 pm 



Joined: 17 Nov 2018
Posts: 1
Neodev wrote:
Hello everyone,

This is Alex,

i just came today from a 600kms car drive after recording yesterday 13 hours of footage for a video where we are going to announce two new products. Once i arrived, i started to work on SSDS3 shipments, so we can save 1 day of waiting to our customers.

My partner told me about this post and once i finished my sunday TO work, i decided to have a look at it.

I have to say that a part of me feels ashamed and the other one feels sick after reading what some of you say/think about us.

I know you guys are not going to care, listen or believe what i have to say, but i am going to do it anyways.

First : We are retro gaming fans before anything else. We did Super SD System 3 cause it was a cool project (tech side) and cause we really wanted it. We had 0 hopes about this product selling half of what neosd sold or even it would sell anything at all.

Super SD System 3 was an act of love to the system since day one.

This vision we had about pcengine market, was the same that caused the RGB issue.

Here in Spain, PCE was never "anything" at all, i myself knew about PCE less than 10 years ago. Turbografx was a complete disaster here and before SSDS3 i didn't knew anyone here (in Spain) that had one or wanted one, among my friends circle. So we thought this project was going to be a commercial disaster, but we did it anyways cause we loved the system and loved the solution we had on mind.

Second : here in Spain, at least among my friends circle and the rest of the team´s circle, upscalers are not common, just because one reason : you can get a RGB capable TV for 20 euros everywhere, and in most cases you can get on for free cause people want to get rid of those. With a usual salary of 1.000 euros per month, who would buy an upscaler here.
90% of the tvs sold here came with RGB

So we never took (the needed) attention to RGB output on SSDS3. To us, RGB output on SSDS3 was just another line on the features list of a device that was designed from day one as an ODE that would play 99,9% of the games. To us, playing all games was the key feature of Super SD System 3.

After the failure of the first board, we decided to replace the boards and move on.
We tried to deliver a fast solution to avoid the amount of ppl doing trash talk and putting pressure on us. Fact is that you need 2 months to just produce another batch of anything, one month to produce pcbs and another one to get a SMT slot, cause SMT factory only gives you a slot once all parts are there (else they would be waiting for everyone with promises and nothing would be produced at all).

This is totally incompatible with what people demands today : 0 second solutions. If you don't deliver a 0 second solution, people just keep pushing harder and harder and harder again.
I just hope you will never have to live under this amount of extress.

People are also used about "the Amazon way", where you can ask for free replacements without paying shipping costs, or production costs at all. This is so cool what amazon has done, to kill small companies that just can't afford this (and i am not talking about ours, i am talking about the small shop that used to be on your street and just wasn't able to offer this, so it had to close).


Back at SSDS3

We did 2 big mistakes :

First one was to not think RGB had the importance that it has for "some of you", and i say "some of you", cause i still think you all are a small but noisy group of people (yes, you can blame me again for say what i think instead of what's politically correct)

Second one was try to please everyone, break our asses working 16 hours a day to have a new design as soon as possible, to just fix the issue and move on.

We should have :
Taken care about RGB since the beginning
Once the RGB issue was found, stop, think, work with calm, redesign the entire board, submit prototypes, try the board again, submit another prototype and have the issue fixed in 4 months.

But, would you guys would be able to wait 4 months without being fucking around everyday and putting more pressure day after day on us? i bet the answer is NO, cause you guys want the Amazon experience, 0 second solutions and everything free. It doesn't matters if this would kill TO, cause believe me : it would have killed the company for sure if we would have taken this route

Ofcourse, there was another thing we could have done to not be in this situation : show our product in advance to some RGB/audio expert and collaborate with him before the product was even announced.


Now that shit happened, it's pretty easy to say what would be better.
To me the right choice would have been contact an RGB/audio expert since day one, and this is what i would have done if i could get me a ticket on the Delorean with what i know now (RGB and audio is much more important than having 100% compatibility, to name one)


OK, so what happens with me/us saying we would never do another board revision and we ended doing it ?

First, i would like that : you guys saying me/us are shit, unfair with our customers, only looking for money and similar things : please clean your mouth before talking about us.

We have never been here looking for the money, we created this company to deliver things others were not able or didn´t cared to deliver. Things we wanted for ourselves. In the meanwhile we also wanted TO to be a successful company, so we could put earnings back into bigger things.

We said we would never would do another board revision cause we didn't had resources to do it at all. We hired a new layout engineer after SSDS3 board was done, but about that time, we had 4 more projects from us on queue. Much more advanced projects than SSDS3, (the first public where he did the layout is NEOSD PRO, 6 layers pcb)
So switching him to another project was not an option at all and with the amount of pending projects he had, it would not be possible this year (2019) either.

On the other hand, i hate to put different board revisions on the market to sell the same thing to the same customer two times, and i hate when someone does that and stops delivering firmware updates to the first version of the board with some silly excuses (yes, you know who i am talking about).

Sum all this with how much we were pissed about the RGB drama and the pain we lived last year, that we just wanted to let SSDS3 hardware die this way, just keep working on the software but not ever do another board revisions even we would not sell a single SSDS3 more.

So, back in late October, we were almost out of SSDS3 stock, so we had to decide if we would build another batch or just don´t sell it anymore. Then we saw that the rgb board addon and the audio board addon were mature and we decided to ask Voultar and FBX if they would share their design with us to make a copy/paste on our original design. We also asked to mobiustech for things he would change on the pcb design and general advice.

At this moment, we knew that no one would be happy : The ones with the old board would be pissed, the ones without it would be pissed, everyone would be pissed cause one only has to read this thread to see people only wants to not be happy at all, just trash talk about us, speculating but not hearing what we have to say.

A clear example is the UK guy that bought a neosd, got a refund cause he changed his mind, and on top on that decided to flame Todd all over the internet, so Todd had to ban him from our forum, cause : what the hell are you looking for once you got what you wanted ?

Back to topic : Voultar, and FBX shared their designs with us, we submitted a prototype pcb to factory with urgent status. It came in two weeks, i soldered it by hand, i shipped it to FBX, FBX shipped it to mobius, and they said there was an improvement there. So in the meanwhile, we lost the entire christmas sales of Super SD System 3, cause from the moment where FBX and Mobius said the board was ok, we would need 2 months to have a batch produced and we were already out of stock. We could have had a batch without changes for Christmas, but not a new version, cause this requires factory to design a new panel, stencils to be build once the new panel is ready and so.

So why we did this new version ? cause we wanted the guys fucking around with the rgb to have what they were fucking asking around all day long (or why you guys were moaning about it ? just to have it and come back moaning about we did it ?. Even we knew when they got this new board they would not stop fucking around with the same thing.

BUT above all things : we did it, cause it was the right thing to do at all.

Now : Sunday, 2:57am after reading all your comments, i think : is all the work we have been doing since last year any worth at all ? Some of you guys wanted us to be dead as company, it looks that what you really want is us to disappear.

I see the two projects we have been working at and that will be announced next month, and i think : do all the haters deserve those ? cause reading you guys, it looks like you don't really want anything else from us on the market.

Maybe i am really tired about driving 600 kms friday to spend 13 hours recording on saturday, driving back those 600kms today and coming back at work on sunday to deliver to our customers as soon as possible.
So today: now, i see it all negative and i am guessing if all the work we are doing just for the shake to have great devices on the street to play with, and sometimes if possible get a thanks back, is it worth at all.

At least, i still think there is a big group of our customers that liked Super SD System 3, NEOSD and will enjoy the projects that we will be announcing next month.

I just want to say, that not everything in life is about money but passion about what one does and love for what on does. Sometimes shit happens, and like on the good times, we are always here to do our best to try to have everyone happy. Just sometimes as this time, its clear that it's not possible at all.

So you all can blame us about anything you may like or dislike. But i don't want anyone else saying again we are only here to make money, cause this is totally wrong.


Alex



Sorry, but reply is in spanish, my english is very bad, and is necessary i reply.

Lo que me cuentas en ese post no me vale una mierda.

Que tu no conocieras o supieras es tu problema, yo en 1991 ya estaba viendo duos americanas y japonesas en casa de amigos, en sabadell (barcelona), tenia delante de casa, aunque suene a broma, un servicio técnico de reparación oficial de aiwa, que modificaban las duos con rgb ademas de las pcengine cores y demás, cuando aquí en España la gente no salia de mierdas pal, tarde, censuradas y desastrosamente mal, a 150km de mi casa, perpiña, tenias tiendas que tenían los lanzamientos de pcengine japoneses cada mes, en el centro de mi cuidad se podían conseguir las consoles plus francesas que tenían información de pcengine a paladas, en 1993 ya conseguíamos traer pc engine fan... para estar informados de todo y ya pedíamos y conseguimos de todo, y eramos un grupito de cuatro chavales, nada mas, y tubimos el sf2 o el dracula en dos semanas después de su salida en japón.

La excusa de yo creo, yo no conocía no me vale, y si hablamos de cualquier cosa lo mismo, si tienes curiosidad aprendes, si aprendes ves que aquí te venden mierda, cara, mal y faltaba de todo, si simplemente te conformaste con lo que te daban masticado es tu problema.

Tu que coño vas a decir sobre amor a un sistema, si no tienes ni la mas remota puta idea de el, sacar este trasto, y que fallen tal cantidad de juegos como fallan, es sencillamente una puta broma, en rpgs fallan un motón, y que falle el gulliver boy, para mi, es como si fallara el mark of the wolf o el metal slug en neogeo, no solo no es aceptable, es de vergüenza ajena, (podria explicar mil cosillas pero no es el objetivo de este post) bueno he tenido dos ssd3 y los dos los he vendido porque sencillamente, no los uso.

Y el que piense que una mierda de everdrive es para los que "aman el sistema", eso es un insulto, los everdrive, sdd3 incluido es para lo que habiendo tenido la oportunidad de comprar y tener, no les ha dado la gana hacerlo durante 20 años con los precios por los suelos y ahora la excusa es los precios altos, ahora mismo los compran un inmenso % para jugar a unos sistemas que no conocen y al final ni los usan... y eso al menos aquí, estoy hasta los mismísimos cojones de verlo.

Y te digo mas, se abran muerto todas tus placas y yo aun estaré jugando con originales en maquinas originales y yo amo el sistema, y eso que de mi grupo fui de los últimos en tener una pcengine, eso si las vi desde el primer día, porque alimentar a una negeo en sus primeros años comprando juegos de salida..., pues no daba el dinero para mas.

Tu solo fabricas un producto, un negocio para una maquina que desconoces y eres incapaz de entenderla y ponerla bajo su realidad y contexto en su época, porque como bien dices, cuando supiste de su existencia eran 15 años tarde como mínimo, cosa que no es mala, pero no me vengas vendiendo motos de amor o no se que.

Mañana me llega un nec PC-KD863G, y ojo en su día uno del grupo consiguió uno, pero he estado años y años detrás de uno, la sensación es increíble, tu tendrás que ir corriendo a google a ver que es... y no es amor, es respecto a una compañía increíblemente potente como nec, que es una brutalidad en su centenaria historia tecnología de principio a fin y hudson que sencillamente eran el camello que se mete, el, mas droga que la que vende, la pcengine es una consola incomparable y irrepetible, por factores aleatorios y de suerte, pero para entender eso necesitas saber muchísimo, y ante todo que no te lo cuente o internet o alguien.

Como era aquel anuncio... ver comparar y lo que es mejor comprarlo, eso hice durante 30 años años y me he quedado con los dos mejores sistemas existentes x68000 y pc engine y dos recreativas y tu everdrive solo lo volveré a tener cuando ni una maquina original funcione, porque las sensaciones de tu producto son un desastre y el audio comparado con el un scdrom2 o un ifucdrom2 es una basura, ya no comparado con el de un laseractive, porque entonces me estoy riendo un siglo.... por cierto el vídeo con un buen mod rgb también esta por debajo a lo bestia de cualquier maquina original.

Que te vaya bien...


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:44 pm 



Joined: 07 Feb 2019
Posts: 6
As someone who's buying this to run on a crt (20m2mdu), I shouldn't have any rgb issues correct? It was only upscalers that were having issues with the signal?


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