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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:53 pm 



Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 145
FBX wrote:
Yep, fuck that. I've been doing 'okay' with Paypal, though it has a few of its own things I don't like. For example, the transaction ID is completely different for the customer than it is for the seller. So if a customer contacts you with an issue they need corrected in their order and gives you their transaction ID, it won't show up in your paypal ID search. Why on earth paypal thought that was a good idea is beyond me.


I've messaged sellers and referenced paypal transaction IDs. I always assumed they were idiots when they failed to find the associated transaction. It is idiotic for paypal to display different IDs for buyer and seller.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:33 pm 


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Quote:
For anyone that cared, Stripe contacted me and admitted they made a mistake. Unfortunately now that I know their policy is a single fraudulent charge results in a complete reversal of all your funds, not a processor I want to do business with.


Eh? That's not how Stripe operate. They take the money plus a handling fee (not really fair admittedly) for the suspect transaction ONLY until the dispute is resolved. If it resolves in your favour (rare, but does happen) you get all the money back.

Contrast that with PayPal who will just randomly freeze your entire account and balance if they suspect fraud, or decide if they just don't like you.

Show me a payment processor that doesn't have a policy against fraud that doesn't penalise the retailer for not spotting it (often impossible of course). It's just the way of the world.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:39 pm 


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I promise you that is exactly how it worked. I have the emails stating it. A single transaction that was identified by them as fraudulent resulted in account closure and refund of all payments made up to that point. When I contacted their support they told me that is their policy and it was a legitimate email. My bank account can prove that they did in fact remove all funds which I still don't have back despite being told it was a mistake on their end.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:44 pm 


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We've had lots of suspected and even some confirmed fraud transactions and never had our account closed. I find it annoying sometimes that a dispute goes against us despite giving full tracking information and even customer signature.

Is it because your account was new perhaps?

Anyway, genuinely good luck finding someone else, of the companies we approached, we usually got responses like "that's against our terms and conditions" or "we don't deal with companies that unlock phones". PayPal are a ticking time bomb, a lot of others just don't want to take the time to understand your business.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:55 pm 


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That could very well be the case. I just don't want anyone believing that I am fabricating a story for sympathy or something.

On topic. Boards are sill going strong. The initial wave definitely passed through already and sales are down to the occasional board here and there. Almost every install that has been sent in has already been shipped back. The only units I still have are waiting on audio boards or other work the owner sent along with it.

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who took the opportunity to pick up one of the boards and I hope everyone has a good experience with them. I for one, will be happy to close out this chapter and finally "just play the games."
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:27 pm 


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the Goat wrote:
FBX wrote:
Yep, fuck that. I've been doing 'okay' with Paypal, though it has a few of its own things I don't like. For example, the transaction ID is completely different for the customer than it is for the seller. So if a customer contacts you with an issue they need corrected in their order and gives you their transaction ID, it won't show up in your paypal ID search. Why on earth paypal thought that was a good idea is beyond me.


I've messaged sellers and referenced paypal transaction IDs. I always assumed they were idiots when they failed to find the associated transaction. It is idiotic for paypal to display different IDs for buyer and seller.


Update on this: As if by magic, the next buyer transaction ID search actually worked this time. I don't know if they updated the site code or it was a typo on the previous ID I copy/pasted, but it seems to be working now.

Still though, I'd rather they just use the same ID for both seller and buyers. Less confusion that way.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:51 pm 



Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 18
Location: France
Received the board today, shipping to France was pretty fast :)

There's a noticeable improvement in image quality, but this improvement will vary depending on the console used, as I think you already stated, Mobius. I could test on 2 consoles, a CGX1 and a CGX2. I'll test on others when I'll find in which moving box they are.

My main concern was the awful diagonal noise we often see on RGB modded consoles of the PcE family, which was extremly important on the SSDS3.

On the CGX1 it is still noticeable on some colors.

On the CGX2, I really have to search the diagonal noise to imagine seeing it.

Both consoles are stock, powered by a cheap 3rd party PSU. RGB cable is the packapunch .

So thanks for all the work you put in this, Mobius and Voultar, that wasn't vain. Cinemas are enjoyable again. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:12 pm 


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Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad to hear that the difference was noticeable in both cases, even if it was better on one console than another. While it may not be completely perfect, I'm glad to have helped make it a better experience overall.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:26 pm 



Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 18
Location: France
Re-reading my post and your reply I realize that it does not exactly reflect what I think of the board, as I didn't use the two words that first came to my mind while testing it:

The difference in image quality with the CGX1 is BIG.

The difference in image quality with the CGX2 is HUGE.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:57 pm 


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Deubeul wrote:
Re-reading my post and your reply I realize that it does not exactly reflect what I think of the board, as I didn't use the two words that first came to my mind while testing it:

The difference in image quality with the CGX1 is BIG.

The difference in image quality with the CGX2 is HUGE.


Woohoo! Even better!
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:46 pm 



Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 19
I'm wondering if anyone ever looked at or noticed differences in the noise based on the sd card used.

The reason I ask is that I recently purchased a board from mobius, and replaced an older version of the voultar board that i made myself a few months ago. At first I thought the board was defective because while the diagonal noise was mostly gone, there were 2 places with noticeable rolling bands moving up the screen that I hadn't noticed before, largely where that diagonal noise used to be. So I swapped the board I had made a few months ago back in, and still was seeing the issue.

Eventually i realized this was because i had changed my sd card to a 256gb Sandisk card at some point and I guess hadn't noticed the noise had gotten worse at the time i briefly looked at it. Switching to a 16gb Team card reduced the noise but doesn't hold much. Switching again to a 64gb g.skill card i had from like 4 or 5 years ago, was also ok in terms of noise (there is a slight flicker in the same areas, but not moving rolling distortion so it's playable).

The other thing i noticed is that during the valis II intro for instance, seeing the noise, it visibly goes away if you eject the sd card while it is running. Sometimes the game will freeze, sometimes it will continue with no audio. When it continues without freezing for a bit, that noise is completely gone.

I know audio buzzing was a problem affected by sd card reading and a capacitor supposedly fixed this (I did the fix, but never really noticed the audio buzzing myself anyway), just wondering if someone with actual electrical knowledge (which i have almost zero) might conceive of something similar for the video noise.


Side note: the board from mobius works just great, and providing it at cost is crazy generous.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:14 pm 


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I can say that I never did video testing based on the SD card. I have tested with a number of cards but honestly wouldn't expect that to be a factor here. The audio buzz was caused by a missing vref capacitor. So the fact that it was picking up SD card access noise isn't entirely surprising. The 2 floating channels and lack of that cap basically turned the audio into an antenna.

Now for video interference the two things I would focus on is power and ground isolation and wiring. Let's start with the easy one. I don't think I have seen your install, if I have I apologize I just don't remember. The type of wire used to make the connection and the routing of it can actually make a difference. The way I route every install is very deliberate. Namely it avoids the power rails and the FPGA.

The more complex issue is the power and ground isolation. Assuming you removed all of the video circuit from the board then you should have the digital and analog grounds separated. However your console may not have good isolation. It's a NEC console so this is likely. Assuming this is the case, it all comes down to minimizing this. You can add capacitors inside the console and try swapping the 7805 along with ensuring a good quality power supply is in use. Assuming you have done all of this already you'd need to start investigating ways to further suppress the noise. This can be done but honestly isn't worth it unless you really want to tinker.

Going back to your original point about the SD card in use. I'd expect that if there is a difference it is a symptom of the signal isolation and not really the SD card that is causing it.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:54 pm 



Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 19
Thanks for the insight.

I think I already replaced the 7805 a while ago, but i'll have to recheck. I'd say in general the console I'm using (a coregrafx) has some noise to begin with. Despite doing the standard suggested 2 cap replacement and fiddling with a few other things at one point I was never able to get rid of the jailbars completely in green hues. But as I said, while I can solder well I have almost 0 electrical understanding, so I'm mostly just poking around at things and guessing.

I'm fairly certain i have removed all the original video circuitry on the ssds3, but i'll recheck that as well. I can recheck my wiring positioning as well, but I think i've tried a few different way of routing it over the months and none seemed to make a difference, but because of the distance between the board solder pads and the din socket solder points the wire more floats a bit above the board and doesn't really touch it.

I agree, I assumed it's a problem with isolation somewhere and not the sd card itself per se, but I do find it odd that specific cards seem to have different effects. Something ain't right about that... but i don't know if it's the class, or newer designs in cards in general, or what. Formatting the same with the same limited info on each card, the older or smaller cards seemed to produce less noise for... some reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:54 pm 



Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 19
I removed all the components shown in these, which I think was a pic originally posted by you in another thread comparing solder mask colors. https://i.imgur.com/DyBio8C.jpg.

I tried various placements of the wires, and redid the entire ribbon between the rgb board and the din out, and moved them around various ways while it was open/on, didn't seem to make any difference as far as I can tell.

I opened the console, and I had already replaced the 7805 at some point, as well as all the electrolytic caps. Still looks ok with the 64gb card, but the noise is definitely still there. I did take the opportunity to replace the somewhat worn controller port while I had it open again though. So... eh, it's something.

Oh, also tried a few different power bricks, mostly genesis 1, seemed not to make a difference.

I'm looking at maybe getting a supergrafx anyway though... so eh, maybe it will work better with that. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:32 pm 


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Yep those are the components to remove. So you should be good on having the grounds separated. Sounds like whatever is left is likely a mix of the console and the weirdness in the SSDS3. If you do go the SuperGrafx route, I would not be surprised if the issue improved or went away.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:09 am 



Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 83
I recently got my Super SD System 3 back from Mobius where they installed a FU-RGB and FBX Audio board.

FU-RGB: The picture is immaculate-- I would say playing on a CRT, the inherent issue with noise was not nearly as bad as those playing on flat panels with upscalers. But, I'm glad to be situated in the case I ever switch from my CRT. I can't display my appreciation enough at the pricing that Monius is offering: $20 for the board and installation. I guarantee this is the cheapest anyone has ever offered aRGB board installed in a system, save for your uncle installing it for a six pack of Coors. In fact, I can't be sure they're even making money doing this. It's clearly a kind gesture to the community who was less than satisfied with the RGB output on a premium product for the PCE. It's well worth the small expense!

FBX Audio Board: Similarly, I'm quite pleased by this. The audio is well balanced, and gives me the same sense of joy and surprise I had as a kid experiencing CD audio in a game for the first time. The only bad thing is the SD access noise is still there-- albeit quite diminished. In fact, I have to wonder if people not using an AVR like me can even hear it. This is a minor nitpick though, and I can't imagine it's the fault of FBX's design, but rather the design of the SSD causing the issue in the first place. It's greatly tolerable now, which is wonderful because this was the most annoying quirk of the Super SD to me.

;tldr: Upgrade the Super SD System with Mobius!


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:20 am 


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Check the capacitor that fixes the sd card access noise. It's on the bottom of the ssds3 pcb. You can't miss it, it's a through hole component precariously soldered to a couple small pads. I started noticing the noise, and upon checking it, found one of the legs had developed a cold solder joint. Resoldering it (and I also took the opportunity to replace the factory fix with a higher quality cap) fixed it right up. Long story short, yours may have developed the same issue in shipping, and a simple resolder could be all that's needed.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:30 am 


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NoAffinity wrote:
Check the capacitor that fixes the sd card access noise. It's on the bottom of the ssds3 pcb. You can't miss it, it's a through hole component precariously soldered to a couple small pads. I started noticing the noise, and upon checking it, found one of the legs had developed a cold solder joint. Resoldering it (and I also took the opportunity to replace the factory fix with a higher quality cap) fixed it right up. Long story short, yours may have developed the same issue in shipping, and a simple resolder could be all that's needed.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


The cap fix serves no purpose with the FBX audio amp. That was just to fix the missing vref cap. There is still some light SD card access noise with the cap fix. It's generally only noticeable at high volume. On FriendofSonic's SSDS3, I would have removed the cap fix if he had it. His board did not have it though.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:36 am 


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Ah, thanks for setting me straight, and good to know

Well, then if nothing else, I can offer one data point that there is no noticeable card access noise on my cg2 with fbx audio board.

On a separate note, still waiting for terraonion to respond to my request for the beta firmware. I queried through the TO web site after registering my serial number. That was on 12/15. Any suggestions for the best approach, to get a response?

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:45 am 


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Sadly I don't have any clue on how to get ahold of them. That's why I dislike the way the firmware thing has been handled. A quick minor revision to flip the channels should have been released and then they could have gone back to work on additional fixes. I said as much on their forums.

The card access noise is very minor. I have only been able to hear it if I max out my speakers. I personally would never play at that level so it's totally fine to me. No noise ever would be better but at this point I am not personally interested in trying to go any further.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:55 pm 


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Just so everyone knows the situation about the noise floor, what my bypass board does, and what you should avoid:

1. The buzzing can never be completely removed due to the design of the SSDS3. The FPGA emits powerful EMI, and since ALL ground lines are fused on the console side of the expansion port, there's no way to isolate the FPGA entirely from the analog video and audio. This is why you can't get a flawless picture quality image, even with all the hard work done by Chris and Zach to reduce the noise as much as possible. Similarly, my audio bypass board isn't designed to 'eliminate' the buzzing in silent moments. Rather instead, it reduces it to a very tolerable level just like the original cap fix I suggested that TO implemented on their later board shipments.

2. A/V cables: You MUST use full shielding cables on the SSDS3. The mini-DIN itself is a a cesspool of coupling noise and EMI leakage. So using a fully shielded cable where each line is coaxial gives the cleanest picture and sound. Of any console or device on the market, the SSDS3 is the MOST in need of buying the more expensive full coaxial cables from Retro-Access. HD Retrovision cable also do a pretty good job of shielding if you want to go that route.

3. Audio bypass installation: As shown in the picture below, the lines and location of the board is my officially endorsed method for mini-DIN support:

Image

However, you can get even better results using isolated line output directly from my bypass board that reduces the noise floor to even better than the original cap fix. Here's an example of a customer request mod I did on commission, and note that I routed the output lines over top the bypass board and glued them in place to avoid EMI from the FPGA pins below it:

Image

Image

In my own SSDS3, I went for total audio isolation and brought the noise floor down to 0.005 out of 1.0 wave envelope by pulling the left and right analog console pins up from the SSDS3 board, flipping them upside down and snipping them such that they never enter the SSDS3 board at any point. I then wired them to the pre-amp mixing circuit that I reproduced on a custom board I made, which then outputs directly to RCA jacks:

Image

The buzzing sound is almost entirely removed, but again you can analyze the noise floor and boost the volume to something like %10,000 to hear the buzz still in the background.

With all that said, what's the real point of my audio bypass board? The answer is 2-fold:

1. You no longer have to worry about adjusting CD audio volume in the SSDS3 menu system. Simply leave it at 100 and all games play without clipping or distortion.

2. Console-side audio also no longer clips. An example of console-side clipping can be heard in "New Adventure Island" during playthrough of the first stage. The default SSDS3 op-amp gets overloaded, and the sound starts to crackle and distort. This does not happen in my bypass board.

So to conclude, the point of my board is to prevent clipping from both audio types, and it also includes the cap fix built-in. However, using shitty unshielded A/V cables will ruin the audio experience anyway, causing customer complaints and money wasted on shipping to find out nothing was wrong with my board. If you want clean sound that is obsessively tested on my Super Grafx, send me a request for an installation service for isolated output using either the mini headphone jack or my RCA jack method. Otherwise, you can roll the dice on your mini-DIN cables if you don't buy quality ones.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:50 am 



Joined: 14 Mar 2014
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Hopefully I didn't undersell your audio board-- I'm quite happy with the audio output!


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:28 am 


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FriendofSonic wrote:
Hopefully I didn't undersell your audio board-- I'm quite happy with the audio output!


It's not you, but rather all the complaints I've received thus far have been the result of one of three things:

1. Non-endorsed installation method. I just recently corrected one installation that reduced the buzzing back down to the same as the integrated tantalum cap fix.

2. Shitty A/V cables. Here again I wasted money paying for shipping on a customer complaint, only to find out the board was working perfectly. The problem was they bought a $10 RGB SCART cable from ebay that had ZERO shielding in it for any of the lines. So instead of FPGA buzzing, their cable simply replaced it with video coupling buzz. To the customer, it sounds exactly the same, and so they thought my board was defective.

3. Expecting 100% removal of the noise and not being happy with 99.5%. You can't completely remove the noise on the SSDS3. It's impossible due to pulling power and ground from the console, and the multi-layer board co-mingling EMI-producing parts with analog signals. Even the Everdrives by Krikzz have access noise when you load a ROM into flash memory. It's much less blatant, but it's the same principle going on.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:10 pm 



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FBX wrote:

In my own SSDS3, I went for total audio isolation and brought the noise floor down to 0.005 out of 1.0 wave envelope by pulling the left and right analog console pins up from the SSDS3 board, flipping them upside down and snipping them such that they never enter the SSDS3 board at any point. I then wired them to the pre-amp mixing circuit that I reproduced on a custom board I made, which then outputs directly to RCA jacks:

Image



Thanks for this invaluable information, FBX. I hope that it reduces your support requests going forward.

Do you have any plans to offer this custom board (that allows RCA jacks) for sale?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:19 pm 


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FBX wrote:
FriendofSonic wrote:
Hopefully I didn't undersell your audio board-- I'm quite happy with the audio output!


It's not you, but rather all the complaints I've received thus far have been the result of one of three things:

1. Non-endorsed installation method. I just recently corrected one installation that reduced the buzzing back down to the same as the integrated tantalum cap fix.

2. Shitty A/V cables. Here again I wasted money paying for shipping on a customer complaint, only to find out the board was working perfectly. The problem was they bought a $10 RGB SCART cable from ebay that had ZERO shielding in it for any of the lines. So instead of FPGA buzzing, their cable simply replaced it with video coupling buzz. To the customer, it sounds exactly the same, and so they thought my board was defective.

3. Expecting 100% removal of the noise and not being happy with 99.5%. You can't completely remove the noise on the SSDS3. It's impossible due to pulling power and ground from the console, and the multi-layer board co-mingling EMI-producing parts with analog signals. Even the Everdrives by Krikzz have access noise when you load a ROM into flash memory. It's much less blatant, but it's the same principle going on.

My Mega Everdrive actually has pretty loud access noise when loading the ROM. I don't really care since it doesn't ever occur during gameplay though


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:28 pm 


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Hmm, for me, I’m not getting CD Audio out of my right speaker after installing the bypass board. I’ve triple-checked that I’m tapping the correct spots on the ssds3, and checked all my wire continuity but still no right audio. Any tips on what I can check?
One thing I should mention is I accidentally removed R26 when I was removing parts, but I reinstalled it. I’ve checked continuity on it and it’s fine, but I’m worried that I may have burned it out putting it back on. If this component has failed, would it cause no CD audio in the right speaker?
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:33 pm 


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Obligatory are you using a composite cable question? Mainly because aftermarket ones are known for hooking up mono to one of the channels.

Otherwise yes r26 is part of the right channel audio.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:40 pm 


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Mobiusstriptech wrote:
Obligatory are you using a composite cable question? Mainly because aftermarket ones are known for hooking up mono to one of the channels.

Otherwise yes r26 is part of the right channel audio.

I’m using the Mega Drive Packapunch Pro cable from RGC.

I could try replacing the R26 resistor (?) with a new one, it has a 2001 on it, but I have no idea what that means. This is the first time I’ve dealt with these SMD type components. Any suggestions on how to order a new one?

**correction: R26 says 1002 on it
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:10 pm 


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1002 is a 10k resistor, probably 1% tolerance.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:48 pm 


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Kez wrote:
1002 is a 10k resistor, probably 1% tolerance.


Thanks. Doing a google search, would this work?
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/KO ... 4hSniBwcxB
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