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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:08 pm 


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Joined: 20 Jul 2017
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Are you sure the cable needs 75 ohm resistors? Looks like they are already present in the mod board. That's possibly why your picture is dim. I would look into that and if so remove the appropriate resistors from the board (short the pads) or the cable.


Last edited by Kez on Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:17 am 


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Kez wrote:
Are you sure the csble needs 75 ohm resistors? Looks like they are already present in the mod board. That's possibly why your picture is dim. I would look into that and if so remove the appropriate resistors from the board (short the pads) or the cable.
I'm sure your right. A detail I overlooked, but will fix. Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:27 am 


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^^Right you were Kez. Removed those resistors on each of the outputs, and the color is looking normal. Thanks for the advice! :)

Got my FU-RGB boards in today. Is there any interest in additional feedback, from a Core Grafx 2? CI've got comparative screenshots of CG2 internal mod output, SSDS3 native output, FU-RGB w/ LPF on, and FU-RGB w/ LPF off. SSDS3 amp is still in place, and no modification to the expansion connector other than soldering the FU-RGB to it. C12, C15, C17, C61, R12, R14, R16 and R36 are removed. There's one other resistor on the bottom of the board removed, which breaks the sync line, but the FU-RGB is now covering it and I didn't note it.

Spoiler alert - the internal bypass amp output looks the cleanest, imho - good color, good sharpness, least noise. Both FU-RGB scenarios are about equal to each other, with good color and sharpness, but noisy. The SSDS3 native output is the worst.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:32 am 


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Absolutely, but please put those in the SSDS3 Video Fix thread.

Just to clarify two very important things:
You did completely remove the internal mod, correct? Every single wire needs to come out.
You also completely decoupled the SSDS3's video circuit, right?
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:49 am 


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hrrrm, so it seems my ssds3 doesn't play super hucards. Did a quick google search, didn't get any hits on the issue. I haven't been able to get Ghouls and Ghosts to boot, but thought it was just that particular rom. Have gotten multiple backups of GNG, with no luck, and then tested other roms, and no super hucard roms are booting. Except aldynes, which gives me some startup music, then the screen flashes green, then nothing.

Anybody know anything good about this? Hopefully my google fu is weak...

:edit: disregard. My google fu has strengthened and I now understand a supergrafx is needed for those titles.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:53 pm 



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Posts: 1201
ya, turbografx/pc engine doesnt run supergrafx games. they dont have the hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:58 am 



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 21
I was debating on buying one of these for my Core Grafx.

I was wondering if the HD Retrovision Genesis Component cable will work with this okay?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:58 am 


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burnman wrote:
I was debating on buying one of these for my Core Grafx.

I was wondering if the HD Retrovision Genesis Component cable will work with this okay?


I can confirm that it does indeed work.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:33 am 


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azmun wrote:
burnman wrote:
I was debating on buying one of these for my Core Grafx.

I was wondering if the HD Retrovision Genesis Component cable will work with this okay?


I can confirm that it does indeed work.


Not only does it work, but I highly recommend using it for the properly shielded lines and separated audio jacks.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:46 am 



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 21
One other question before I order this.

My CoreGrafx is modded via a switch to run both PC-Engine and TurboGrafx 16 games. Is that going to cause an issue with the Super SD? I thought I read somewhere that modded systems don't work properly.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:58 pm 



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burnman wrote:
One other question before I order this.

My CoreGrafx is modded via a switch to run both PC-Engine and TurboGrafx 16 games. Is that going to cause an issue with the Super SD? I thought I read somewhere that modded systems don't work properly.


All that mod does is rearrange the pins for the HuCard slot (essentially). The SSDS3 connects through the extension port, so AFAIK you shouldn't have any issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:21 am 



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Are the video problems of a stock SSDS3 noticeable while playing on a PVM (got a 20M4U here), or is it just a concern when attempting to upscale for use on a LCD or capture for streaming?

I'd be down to install the FU-RGB bypass eventually but I'd like to not have to worry about it immediately.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:08 am 


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Rotanibor wrote:
Are the video problems of a stock SSDS3 noticeable while playing on a PVM (got a 20M4U here), or is it just a concern when attempting to upscale for use on a LCD or capture for streaming?

I'd be down to install the FU-RGB bypass eventually but I'd like to not have to worry about it immediately.

From my understanding, most of the woes we experience in this area are a result of analog to digital conversion. jailbars, interference, etc, across all consoles is a function of ADC, and not typically experienced on analog monitors.

On a separate note, I've been noticing a consistent hum from my CG2/SSDS3 the past couple of days. I haven't played it much for probably the past month, but was pretty sure I would've been noticing it before, and it's a new development. Figured the TO retrofitted "audio fix" cap probably is failing. Opened up the SSDS3...nope...their crap solder joint failed.

Let's assess what we're looking at here.

Spoiler: show
Image


"Kemet" brand cap - I'm assuming the absolute cheapest that money can buy. Positive leg bent way beyond spec (45 degrees max, out of the body of the cap, folks). Failed solder joint (how long have I had this thing....6 months?).

Well, I trust my own work and a 20+ year old cap off of a parts CPS2 motherboard way more than I trust TO's work and component choices. ;)

Spoiler: show
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:25 am 


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TO has since revised the board to include a tantalum cap for Vref. However, it's been recently discovered that console-side audio is overloading the op-amp they used (like CD audio does). My audio bypass board for the SSDS corrects all three issues, and I'll be putting them back up for pre-order later this week. I revised the design of it while I was at it:

Image

Larger Vref cap and independent ground outputs. Both changes make assembly easier, and the ground outputs ensure the 100uF power cap isn't stressed by the modder.


-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:56 am 



Joined: 13 Dec 2015
Posts: 62
Does Terraonion not intend to fix these defects with their product? Our only choice is to pay $300 then have it modded to work correctly?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:18 am 


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FBX wrote:
My audio bypass board for the SSDS corrects all three issues, and I'll be putting them back up for pre-order later this week.

I'm sure I'm being lazy, but can you post a link to the pre-order? I've got this thing hacked 10 ways from Sunday, might as well put in a mod that I can at least trust was engineered right. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:26 am 


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mario64 wrote:
Does Terraonion not intend to fix these defects with their product? Our only choice is to pay $300 then have it modded to work correctly?


They did come out with a firmware to address the overloaded CD audio by including a volume adjustment feature, but this introduces the concept of not being able to play the games with the proper balance of CD audio compared to in-game audio (i.e. authentic experience to the original playback hardware). With the latest news about the console-side audio, they would have to change the resistors in the pre-amp in yet another revision. The main problem though, is the op-amp. It's a 4-channel amp being used in a 2-channel design, and the unused pins are left floating (which can act as a noise antenna). In addition to that, the op-amp isn't of good quality. So the reality is they would need to do some actual gerber file changes to completely overhaul the audio circuitry in order to fix all the issues, and then start manufacturing new boards with those changes. It would be a nightmare loss of money to do an exchange/recall yet again, so these bypass boards are an easy alternative for users that want clean sound without having to adjust CD volume or change resistor components.

NoAffinity wrote:
I'm sure I'm being lazy, but can you post a link to the pre-order? I've got this thing hacked 10 ways from Sunday, might as well put in a mod that I can at least trust was engineered right. :)


I'll post a link here when I'm ready to start taking pre-orders. I like to wait until OSH Park has at least panelized the boards before starting the process. That way, the wait time is only about 3 weeks.


-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:32 am 



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Posts: 62
FBX wrote:
mario64 wrote:
Does Terraonion not intend to fix these defects with their product? Our only choice is to pay $300 then have it modded to work correctly?


They did come out with a firmware to address the overloaded CD audio by including a volume adjustment feature, but this introduces the concept of not being able to play the games with the proper balance of CD audio compared to in-game audio (i.e. authentic experience to the original playback hardware). With the latest news about the console-side audio, they would have to change the resistors in the pre-amp in yet another revision. The main problem though, is the op-amp. It's a 4-channel amp being used in a 2-channel design, and the unused pins are left floating (which can act as a noise antenna). In addition to that, the op-amp isn't of good quality. So the reality is they would need to do some actual gerber file changes to completely overhaul the audio circuitry in order to fix all the issues, and then start manufacturing new boards with those changes. It would be a nightmare loss of money to do an exchange/recall yet again, so these bypass boards are an easy alternative for users that want clean sound without having to adjust CD volume or change resistor components.

NoAffinity wrote:
I'm sure I'm being lazy, but can you post a link to the pre-order? I've got this thing hacked 10 ways from Sunday, might as well put in a mod that I can at least trust was engineered right. :)


I'll post a link here when I'm ready to start taking pre-orders. I like to wait until OSH Park has at least panelized the boards before starting the process. That way, the wait time is only about 3 weeks.


-FBX
Thanks Firebrand. I really would love to have a PC Engine ODE but I’m guessing purchase and install of your mod will be at least $100 which makes total cost $400 minimum. That’s a tough pill to swallow


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:40 am 


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mario64 wrote:
Thanks Firebrand. I really would love to have a PC Engine ODE but I’m guessing purchase and install of your mod will be at least $100 which makes total cost $400 minimum. That’s a tough pill to swallow

Don't forget the cost of FU-RGB as well....which may or may not solve the video noise. :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:56 am 



Joined: 13 Dec 2015
Posts: 62
NoAffinity wrote:
mario64 wrote:
Thanks Firebrand. I really would love to have a PC Engine ODE but I’m guessing purchase and install of your mod will be at least $100 which makes total cost $400 minimum. That’s a tough pill to swallow

Don't forget the cost of FU-RGB as well....which may or may not solve the video noise. :cry:
I hear ya. I just find it very difficult to reward a company for shoddy work. It’s like buying a new car knowing you’re gonna have to sink a couple thousand dollars into it to get it to run properly. I certainly appreciate the efforts of those attempting to fix the issues for existing owners but think I’ll wait to see if they ever release a revision which works as it should


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:35 pm 


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mario64 wrote:
Thanks Firebrand. I really would love to have a PC Engine ODE but I’m guessing purchase and install of your mod will be at least $100 which makes total cost $400 minimum. That’s a tough pill to swallow


My boards for these are $32.95. If someone is charging you $100 for install, I'd do it myself for only an extra $20 on top of the $32 + shipping. You'd be looking at around $60 shipped, but you'd have to send in your SSDS3 though. I recently did one install for free because a customer complained the board wasn't working. Turns out it was his unshielded crappy RGB cables causing video noise to couple over into the audio lines. Here's a pic of my work on his SSDS3:

Image

And here's a Youtube video PSA I did on why crappy unshielded RGB cables SUCK using that same customer's SSDS3:

https://youtu.be/J4LCoXKFsjE

NoAffinity wrote:
Don't forget the cost of FU-RGB as well....which may or may not solve the video noise. :cry:


You can always get Voultar's console-side RGB bypass boards for the PCE, and then snip/remove the RGB pins on the SSDS3. This DOES work for clean video, though you end up just using the SSDS3 for audio output and have to run a separate video cable to the console directly. It's a semi-advanced mod job, but totally worth it if you have the means.

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:19 am 


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^okay, I've seen this talked about plenty, have given it a bit of thought before, but now thinking about it more seriously. So the data passes back and forth via the interface connector, and effectively the base console will pull and process the game data from the ssds3, and output video at the base console? Probably a silly question, but just trying to get the basic understanding of the function of the interface connector.

Assuming that's correct, then could I in theory remove the din connector on ssds3 and replace with a (for example) 3.5mm stereo connector for audio output only?

I'm obviously thinking more function than form here, but if it resolves the video noise with no down side, im ready for that. I use a DJ mixer with many inputs for solving audio routing problems, and can easily take a stereo rca cable from ssds3 to the mixer. Any problems with that idea? How do folks typically route the separate video and audio feeds?

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:34 am 



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
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NoAffinity wrote:

Assuming that's correct, then could I in theory remove the din connector on ssds3 and replace with a (for example) 3.5mm stereo connector for audio output only?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I went 3.5mm with my Supergrafx and SSDS3. What I had done with mine is have the Firebrandx audio board installed in the SSDS3. It's wired to output via a 3.5mm jack. For the video I had the RGB pins on the SSDS3 snipped and had a Voultar board installed in the system. I used the Retro Access custom cable creator to make a 8 pin din with 3.5mm audio connector to scart cable. So my system pulls video from the Supergrafx and audio from the SSDS3.

It was kind of expensive. The audio made the system unplayable for me so it had to be done.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:40 am 


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Gara wrote:

I went 3.5mm with my Supergrafx and SSDS3. What I had done with mine is have the Firebrandx audio board installed in the SSDS3. It's wired to output via a 3.5mm jack. For the video I had the RGB pins on the SSDS3 snipped and had a Voultar board installed in the system. I used the Retro Access custom cable creator to make a 8 pin din with 3.5mm audio connector to scart cable. So my system pulls video from the Supergrafx and audio from the SSDS3.

It was kind of expensive. The audio made the system unplayable for me so it had to be done.


That's about the best setup right there when it comes to the SSDS3. Just don't even bother with the video and instead install an RGB bypass board with custom DIN-8 socket on the console itself, then remove the RGB pins from the SSDS3 and throw my audio bypass board in it.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:41 pm 


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Thanks for the ideas guys. I dont need to try to inject the audio, I'll just take it from ssds3 directly to the mixer. So, that's one less complexity.

I think what I'm going to try to make work is repurposing the ssds3 9 pin din, and use it within the cg2. I know 8 pin is a better fit in the original 5 pin space, but I've already got the beefy shielded coax cable from retroaccess or rgc. One less $50 cable to buy would be welcomed by me. :)

For the new output connector at the cg2, I just need to connect rgbs and ground from console/rgb bypass board to new output connector? Is it okay to leave the rest of the pins floating?

And for the ssds3, I just need to cut the rgbs pins, which are shown wired to in this picture? (Yes, that's an ifu in the picture, but the same pins on the ssds3, right?) http://8bitplus.co.uk/wp-content/galler ... ection.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:52 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 375
The other benefit of going the console mod route (whether via the Voultar or Mickris board) is that if you ever do use a real CD unit, you'll already have a cable that runs video and audio separately.

Edit: Just saw your new post. It's simplest to use an 8-pin DIN connector simply because it slides right into the existing through holes on the console's PCB. Then everything is already connected and you just need to connect RGB (and c-sync if you go that route with Voultar's board). Voultar has a good video on how to put in the new DIN, but I also have some pictures if you'd rather read about it here: https://www.retromodwiki.com/wiki/PC_En ... od_Install. If you are going to use the 9-pin DIN and just kinda glue it in place there, I'd still connect everything to give yourself options and then disconnect things in the cable if needed. For example, in the cable you wouldn't connect audio at the DIN plug so that you can grab it from the 3.5 mm plug instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:36 pm 


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thebigcheese wrote:
The other benefit of going the console mod route (whether via the Voultar or Mickris board) is that if you ever do use a real CD unit, you'll already have a cable that runs video and audio separately.

Edit: Just saw your new post. It's simplest to use an 8-pin DIN connector simply because it slides right into the existing through holes on the console's PCB. Then everything is already connected and you just need to connect RGB (and c-sync if you go that route with Voultar's board). Voultar has a good video on how to put in the new DIN, but I also have some pictures if you'd rather read about it here: https://www.retromodwiki.com/wiki/PC_En ... od_Install. If you are going to use the 9-pin DIN and just kinda glue it in place there, I'd still connect everything to give yourself options and then disconnect things in the cable if needed. For example, in the cable you wouldn't connect audio at the DIN plug so that you can grab it from the 3.5 mm plug instead.

yeah, I have the rgb bypass board already, and was playing around with it a while ago. The 8-pin din is a nice fit within the CG2, with a few cut legs, but again, I'm really hoping to the keep the cost down on any additional fixes. And if this resolves the video noise once and for all, then I don't anticipate ever buying a CD unit. When toying with rotating the 9-pin din within the SSDS3 a while back, I was able to secure it by running some solid wire through the through holes on either side of the connector (which are grounded) and soldering to the through hole pads and to the din's exterior. That worked pretty well to secure it in place...and of course, some electric tape between PCB and din connector to ensure no shorts from the native pin pads. Hoping I can do the same thing within the CG2. If not, that will change things.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:27 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
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I had MobiusStripTech install the video board he and Voultar worked on along with FBX's audio board. It's been a world of difference and I can't complain. This has all of the audio and video coming out of the SSDS3.

I do still have a "pigtail" SCART cable if someone wants that will allow one to route the video from the main console and audio from the SSDS3. If you're interested, PM me and we'll coordinate price & shipping.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:36 pm 


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^ok, thanks bud. Let me play around with it, see if I cant get things working as I'm hoping, with what I already have on hand. If it doesnt turn out as I'm hoping, I'll hit you up.

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:46 pm 


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The FU-RGB board is still being worked on actively. Voultar and I were literally just talking about this at the end of last week. I just received another set of prototype boards to fix a trace spacing issue I was correcting manually.

Ultimately you can install a system side mod and cut the pins in the SSDS3 and call it a day. Obviously that's a real solution for many people. I myself want to have the mod in the SSDS3. I don't plan on using RGB output from the console. If I want to play real CDs I will just use one of my Duos.

From those that have had the prototype boards installed, I have only spoken to one person aside from FBX who was not happy with the results. I can't speak to the quality of the boards that are built by anyone else since I obviously don't know what components they are using. I can say that the boards I have are not the same as what are publicly available.

To those talking about the device, cost, and the lack of quality fixes from the manufacturer, yeah it's BS. We can't force TO to fix it and people will still buy the device. My goal for the last 5 months now has been to find a solution to the video issue and offer it as cheaply as I can without sacrifing the quality. I don't want to put something out that I am not feeling confident about, which is why the final revision is not released. Voultar and I still have ideas to possibly make it better.
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