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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:56 pm 



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 18
Gara wrote:
RevQuixo wrote:
tzakiel wrote:
FirebrandX,

It does not mix cd audio into that port. People are using special cables for that that grab audio (because it includes cd audio) from the ssds3 and merge it into the rgb from the mod port. Someone’s selling them (they posted to the TO forums) and they’ve been considered pretty good so far.


They are very good. Fully shielded so it does everything it can to minimize the buzz in the cabling itself. But yes, the buzz..especially the SD card access buzz is still noticeable. (Although very minor in my set-up).


Shielding isn't the issue so it's doing nothing for the audio buzzing. Many of us have been using multicore coaxial cabling from the beginning and it's the same wide range of responses on how much each person notices it.

I'm sure it addresses the video problems showing up in many setups but it does nothing for audio.


Right that's why i said it was to minimize buzzing caused by the cable..and not the SSDS3. It was more me vouching for the quality of the work, not tauting it as a fix for the SSDS3 audio buzz.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:34 pm 


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Location: Netherlands
Ordered mine beginning the month; received it yesterday. Interestingly enough, the 2 week shipment option was apparently:
1) waiting 1.5 weeks to actually ship it
2) DHL delivering it 2 days later :mrgreen:

Running it on my PVM, with audio going to my Pioneer receiver. Running quite smooth on a $40 white (more yellow) PC Engine (no internal mods).
No 'hiss' during silent moments of CD audio and no artifacts on my screen (retrogamingcables.co.uk).

Super happy with this unit.

Asked a question by email to the info@ and received an actionable response next day. Excellent support too.

To have something to complain: the choice of button mapping in the menu is horrible. I keep going to the 'settings' menu or nothing seem to happen (i.e. I press the wrong buttons 8) )
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:32 pm 



Joined: 08 Nov 2017
Posts: 12
waiwainl wrote:
Running quite smooth on a $40 white (more yellow) PC Engine (no internal mods).


How is everyone finding PC Engines for so cheap? I only see them >$100 which alas, I foolishly paid. That being said... its a great system.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:45 pm 


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Location: Netherlands
KonradKlaus wrote:
waiwainl wrote:
Running quite smooth on a $40 white (more yellow) PC Engine (no internal mods).


How is everyone finding PC Engines for so cheap? I only see them >$100 which alas, I foolishly paid. That being said... its a great system.


EBay, 4 months ago.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:56 pm 


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Location: DFW area, Texas
Finished my RGB bypass mod for the Super Grafx using Voultar's board:

Image

Result? See below:

Spoiler: show
Image


Right, so that takes care of video. Just need that audio sorted out on the SSDS3 and it's all good! :-P

-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:24 pm 



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 10
FBX wrote:
Finished my RGB bypass mod for the Super Grafx using Voultar's board:


-FBX



looks pretty neat! great soldering job


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:26 pm 


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So... PCengine + SSDS3 + RGB mod, and maybe another mod for the audio as well.

*whew!* the path to the ideal full drive-less NEC setup is not what I would call cheaper nor easier than ye olde refurbished Duo one.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:24 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
So... PCengine + SSDS3 + RGB mod, and maybe another mod for the audio as well.

*whew!* the path to the ideal full drive-less NEC setup is not what I would call cheaper nor easier than ye olde refurbished Duo one.


I must confess it fast turned into a money pit getting this all going with a Super Grafx. Almost as painful as when I bought my AES and NeoSD combo. Here's the money pit breakdown for both:

Super Grafx:

Code:

1. Boxed near mint console with all original cords.........$400.00   

2. SSDS3...................................................$300.00 

3. 256GB microSD card......................................$100.00

4. Voultar RGB bypass board................................free

5. RGB coaxial cable.......................................$40.50 

6. Mod parts (wires, caps, etc)............................$10.00



Total = $850.50


Neo Geo AES:

Code:
1. AES console................$260.00   

2. AES memory card............$42.00 

3. MIB AES arcade stick.......$121.00

4. US Power adapter cord......$20.00

5. RGB coaxial cable..........$48.00 

6. Unibios Eprom kit .........$39.00

7. NeoSD......................$489.00


Total = $1,019

So you can see it was almost as expensive as setting up a nice AES system.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:12 pm 


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FBX wrote:
So you can see it was almost as expensive as setting up a nice AES system.


Whoa whoa whoa. Quality can't be measured. So really you're just throwing your money in a fire.

In all seriousness I can't judge because I've done the same thing for both except I got my supergrafx cheaper and paid for my voultar board.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:59 pm 


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Somebody on the TerraOnion forums mentioned they tested for the source of the audio buzzing and determined it was coming from the op-amp itself. So to confirm this, I rigged up a test probe where right channel was fed via the A/V out port of the SSDS3, while the left channel was a ground and positive probe I could listen to on the headphones. Sure enough, the sound coming from the DAC was CLEAN, the sound coming from in from the console was CLEAN, and the sound coming from the op-amp itself was BUZZING. So whether it be a power issue or routing issue, it seems to be the op-amp itself affected by it. I'm considering making an external mod board with the same op-amp fed its own independent power supply to see if that eliminates the buzzing. We're getting close to sussing this one out!
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:40 pm 


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SSDS3 buzzing sound and SD access noise eliminated! Here's my crude diagram:

Image

I ran several CD games and couldn't detect any buzzing or SD card access. However, I'm also thinking of raising the resistor on R29 to something like 6K. The 4.7K they have on there is awfully loud for line level from my own tests.

But at any rate, this fix is simple and easy to implement for those with some experience with a soldering iron.

Cheers!
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:57 pm 


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Very nice FireBrandX, thanks for the solution.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:18 am 


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Location: DFW area, Texas
I slapped a nice quality Nichicon in mine. Doesn't mess with anything, fits nicely in the shell for the SSDS3, and sound is clear!

Image

So this combined with the RGB bypass mod now makes for a kickass experience on my Super Grafx + SSDS3 combo!

-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:36 am 



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 86
I installed FBX's mod on my SSDS3 also.

Image


In my particular case it removed probably 90% of the SD card access noise.

There is still a faint amount there, however you have to have your audio cranked up to stupid levels to be able to hear it.


Good fix!
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:07 am 


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Fantastic! Thanks for the work!


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:26 am 



Joined: 13 Jul 2017
Posts: 13
Nice job indeed, fixed my sd access buzz as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:34 am 


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Posts: 303
broken wrote:
In my particular case it removed probably 90% of the SD card access noise.

There is still a faint amount there, however you have to have your audio cranked up to stupid levels to be able to hear it.


Roughly the same here. Using a Core Grafx and I can still hear it, but it's minimized a lot. I basically have to use headphones, crank up the volume really loud, or get close to the speakers


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:48 am 


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Nice work FBX :D

Did you share this info on the Terraonion forums ?

edit:
Is this on the version 1 or 2 of the hardware ?
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:17 am 


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Posts: 229
The fix works. Well done!

Be careful if you want to do this yourselves. The pictures make things look deceptively bigger than they are. It’s very tight and tiny to solder at this scale. I wasn’t sure I could pull it off but managed in the end


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:23 pm 


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Location: UK
Great fix, FBX!


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:28 pm 



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 179
Location: germany
Great Job FBX!

I assume Terraonion will apply this fix on all boards that will be shipped from now on


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:02 pm 



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 86
svensonson wrote:
Great Job FBX!

I assume Terraonion will apply this fix on all boards that will be shipped from now on


Yes. I’ve spoke to Alex and it’s being implemented on the next batch of units.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:02 pm 


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On my Super Grafx, the fix completely removed the access and buzzing sound from CD audio. The only thing left remaining as far as noise is a very tiny amount of general hum that's more due to the usage of the op-amp IC in question and the layout design leaving op-amps 1 and 4 floating. Ace from the Sega 16 forums had a look at it and said that particular op-amp is notorious for background noise, and had a number of suggestions for improving the design and finding a suitable replacement drop-in op-amp IC. However, those improvements require serious modification that is best left to a version 3 board revision, or an external mod board like my Genesis line-level amp board I've been working on. For now though, I'm happy with the 90 - 99% range with this simple fix (with mine being 99% on my Super Grafx).

-FBX

Edit: Wanted to specify this fix was done on version 2 of the SSDS3.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:42 pm 


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Posts: 289
Great job on the audio, I'm guessing RGB out of the ODE unit is still a write-off since you did the internal console video amp?

(I know adding the cap to the audio op amp won't affect video, just asking about the general state of the device)


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:06 pm 


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Location: DFW area, Texas
maxtherabbit wrote:
Great job on the audio, I'm guessing RGB out of the ODE unit is still a write-off since you did the internal console video amp?


Yeah I don't have the equipment to work on the video end (scope). I know Voultar has been working on that and will do a far better job of it than I can. So I was just happy to do the bypass amp mod with the DIN-8 socket out the side of my Super Grafx, and just use the A/V port on the SSDS3 for audio.

Speaking of the Super Grafx, I discovered Retro-Access's cable for the PCE line of consoles wasn't field tested for the Super Grafx, and so it doesn't fit in all the way due to the plastic molding of the console shell obstructing it. I was able to mod the cable myself so it fits all the way in properly, and I've sent her the details and measurements. She's working on a new design that takes care of the issue for the general public.

-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:40 pm 



Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 78
You're the man FBX! I'm still disgruntled at Terra Onion, and probably not buying their future products, but it can't be overstated how amazing it is that there's people always in the community willing to try to solve problems for the benefit of us all. I'm also glad they're deciding to implement the fix on future units sold... it seems obvious they would do this, but it was a little up in the air when they said they weren't planning on future revisions, and going on their tirade about how 'quality can't be measured'. I'm excited to get the fix implemented on my unit. Still debating on whether or not I should be waiting on a possible fix to the RGB amp or if I should pony up the money to do a dedicated RGB mod.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:28 am 


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Does it need to be electrolytic? Or is a 10uf ceramic likely to have the same effect?
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:13 am 



Joined: 23 Oct 2014
Posts: 14
FBX wrote:
On my Super Grafx, the fix completely removed the access and buzzing sound from CD audio. The only thing left remaining as far as noise is a very tiny amount of general hum that's more due to the usage of the op-amp IC in question and the layout design leaving op-amps 1 and 4 floating.

So the remaining hum may be due to floating channels?

This could be useful! How to Properly Configure Unused Operational Amplifiers


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:50 am 


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Location: DFW area, Texas
nam9 wrote:
FBX wrote:
On my Super Grafx, the fix completely removed the access and buzzing sound from CD audio. The only thing left remaining as far as noise is a very tiny amount of general hum that's more due to the usage of the op-amp IC in question and the layout design leaving op-amps 1 and 4 floating.

So the remaining hum may be due to floating channels?

This could be useful! How to Properly Configure Unused Operational Amplifiers


Yeah Ace already said the exact same info (which I passed along to Alex).

In the interim, I'm considering stripping out the op-amp in my SSDS3 and using my own self-contained 2-channel op-amp mod board I had originally designed for the M1 Genesis. The Vref circuit is on the mod board and properly designed, and since it only runs 2 channels, there's no need to worry about tying down floating ones. Here's the board installed in my VA3 M1 Genesis:

Image
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:29 pm 


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Well done FBX!
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