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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:38 am 


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Well I look at it this way:

On my Super Grafx, I'm modding it with Voultar's board for independent RGB output with crystal clarity. So the only thing I have to worry about on the SSDS3 is the minor audio issues. If that's the only thing wrong for my setup, the purchase is totally worth it. I've got every hucard and every official ISO image on the microSD card inside the machine. Totally worth it, and I know experts like Voultar have been doing their best to trace the sound issue. I just don't have the free time to look at it myself because of multiple project I must take care of.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:44 am 



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
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FBX wrote:
Well I look at it this way:

On my Super Grafx, I'm modding it with Voultar's board for independent RGB output with crystal clarity. So the only thing I have to worry about on the SSDS3 is the minor audio issues. If that's the only thing wrong for my setup, the purchase is totally worth it. I've got every hucard and every official ISO image on the microSD card inside the machine. Totally worth it, and I know experts like Voultar have been doing their best to trace the sound issue. I just don't have the free time to look at it myself because of multiple project I must take care of.


I get it. I love having the entire library on my finger tips. It's fast and it works.

I have quite a bit of tolerance for video issues. I can ignore video noise and most minor problems. The audio stuff just drives me nuts. I can't help but pick up the static and access noise. It becomes all I can focus on. Hiding the access light of the SSDS3 helped. I like being about to immerse myself in the audio and in this case I just keep getting reminded there is something not right. 0

I'm probably in a minority. My general dislike of Terraonions attitude towards its customer base probably also influences me. It feels like they could care less. They definitely care about being confronted about it and seem to play the victim but the problems themselves seem more like an annoyance to them.

This has all been said before but the longer the issue goes unanswered the more I am reminded of it. Who knows. Maybe they are secretly working on a great solution that will shock and amaze. I'll be happy to eat my words if it happens.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:13 am 


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I'm the same way about video quality. If there's noise, it bothers me. The audio bothers me too, but at least it's being looked at. There's still hope in that regard.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:42 am 


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Gara wrote:
This has all been said before but the longer the issue goes unanswered the more I am reminded of it. Who knows. Maybe they are secretly working on a great solution that will shock and amaze. I'll be happy to eat my words if it happens.


You are aware they are working on version 1.2 of the firmware ?

https://forums.terraonion.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=50
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:04 am 



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 45
rtw wrote:
Gara wrote:
This has all been said before but the longer the issue goes unanswered the more I am reminded of it. Who knows. Maybe they are secretly working on a great solution that will shock and amaze. I'll be happy to eat my words if it happens.


You are aware they are working on version 1.2 of the firmware ?

https://forums.terraonion.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=50



Oh I am aware. Notice something missing from the work in progress notes? It's the audio and video issues. We all assume they are doing something about it but they are being real hush hush if they are. I suppose I can look on the bright side that volume control is coming.

I wonder if they have completely outsourced these issues to people like Voultar.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:24 am 


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Gara wrote:

I wonder if they have completely outsourced these issues to people like Voultar.


I think Voultar just looks at it when he can. I know from the latest Roundtable that he spent some considerable time trying to isolate the cause of the audio noise, and came up empty thus far. He's thinking it might still be a power supply issue, but just not sure.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:28 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
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Gara wrote:
This has all been said before but the longer the issue goes unanswered the more I am reminded of it. Who knows. Maybe they are secretly working on a great solution that will shock and amaze. I'll be happy to eat my words if it happens.


No solution yet, but Terra Onion just posted a pretty in-depth post about what they've tried (and other people have tried) to do in order to fix the audio buzz:

https://forums.terraonion.com/viewtopic ... &start=110


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:34 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 10
Well Alex just posted an update on the audio issues. Actually just on the buzzing. They tried a ton of things and nothing works. It's still a mystery. No board revision planned, partly out of fear of upsetting v2 buyers who may demand an exchange.

No word on the dynamic range clipping. I guess they are assuming that the volume control is the final solution for that, but to me it's totally a half-assed solution. It is a compromise, like the product as a whole when you consider its advantages and disadvantages. But it's not good enough to be a replacement for a real optical drive, sadly.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:58 am 


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Location: Australia
Dumb question:
Does the SSDS3 output TTL level sync?
Also, is double loading the rgbs output of a PCE a good idea? Ie ssds3 and internal amp


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:14 am 



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 45
Quote:
What we think about the audio issue ?
We know its real and disturbing, for some users is more disturbing, for others it’s not such a big deal.


He just couldn't help himself with that last little dig. It's like saying Blu-ray isn't any better because a lot of people don't see the difference between DVD and BD. You don't let the "good enough" crowd set the bar. At least we have moved past it being an issue for the high end user they have no way of testing for. The quality can't be measured argument. Got to love it.

Is the volume adjuster patch supposed to fix the "The top of the waveform is missing dynamic range" issue? I wonder if it's going to be something that needs adjusting on each game in order to achieve original audio quality.

At least we have an update. Here's to hoping someone in the community finds a fix.

FBX wrote:
Gara wrote:

I wonder if they have completely outsourced these issues to people like Voultar.


I think Voultar just looks at it when he can. I know from the latest Roundtable that he spent some considerable time trying to isolate the cause of the audio noise, and came up empty thus far. He's thinking it might still be a power supply issue, but just not sure.


I haven't been keeping up with retro roundtable. Thank you for the heads up.

https://youtu.be/lVjg1WjZCy8?t=2h6m00s

For anyone else curious.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:52 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 201
So I have no real stake in this since I don't have an SSDS3, but from what I have seen about the audio issues... the clipping should be pretty easy to fix. The volume adjustment ought to fix that, depending on where the audio adjustment is happening. Clipping happens when you are driving an amplifier too hard, so lowering the gain should stop it from clipping. From what I have seen in videos online, that's exactly what is happening, so just allowing people to turn it down should solve clipping issues. Now, I don't know how the thing actually processes the audio - is the amplifier part of the FPGA or is it a separate chip? Presumably if it is a separate chip, one could just add (or increase the value of) resistors to lower the gain before it hits the amplifier. This is how a guitar volume knob works, more or less, though being a passive attenuater does impact sound quality somewhat. I know nothing about programming these things, but maybe it's also possible to just program the FPGA to send a lower volume signal. A third option would be to replace the amplifier (if it's separate from the FPGA) with a new one that has more headroom and is thus less prone to clipping. Might require more voltage, though (usually increasing headroom requires a higher voltage), so don't know how that would pan out.

At any rate, the point here is that a volume change should solve clipping issues unless something else is going on.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:21 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 10
Yeah, neodev seems sure that the volume control will totally fix the clipping and the balance will be ok. I'm not sure it will be a "set and forget" type of setting, but it would still significantly improve the value proposition of the SSDS3 for me. Then it's just about taking the video signal right out of the modded console and just get the audio from the SSDS3. Might have to get one of those special cables someone was making to that effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:25 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 101
I have the beta firmware. It improves the clipping...I can’t say for sure if it 100% fixes, but might. The consistent hum and SD access are not addressed.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:33 pm 


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fernan1234 wrote:
Might have to get one of those special cables someone was making to that effect.


I'm making these here https://tinkerplunk.com/super-sd-system-3-cables/

I'm currently a few orders behind as I bought all of the correctly wired genesis 2 cables at my local store and the old skool ones from Amazon are no longer the correct ones. Going to try to use scart cables from console5 instead.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:51 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 101
The special cable will fix your video problems but not your audio problems. You will still have a persistent hum and SD access noise.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:00 pm 


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SavagePencil wrote:
I have the beta firmware. It improves the clipping...I can’t say for sure if it 100% fixes, but might. The consistent hum and SD access are not addressed.


Is there any kind of consensus on what the volume should be set at ideally (such as 80% volume)? Also, does it sound "right" with the volume lowered? My worry is that lowering the volume fixes the clipping but also (potentially) makes the CD audio quieter (thus mismatching volume levels with the PCE sound not generated by the SSDS3) compared to a real PCE-CD/Duo.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:22 pm 



Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 89
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
I don’t own this device and am not up to date on this topic. But has anyone tried a ground (edit) loop isolator to solve the audio problem?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:26 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 101
cr4zymanz0r wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:
I have the beta firmware. It improves the clipping...I can’t say for sure if it 100% fixes, but might. The consistent hum and SD access are not addressed.


Is there any kind of consensus on what the volume should be set at ideally (such as 80% volume)? Also, does it sound "right" with the volume lowered? My worry is that lowering the volume fixes the clipping but also (potentially) makes the CD audio quieter (thus mismatching volume levels with the PCE sound not generated by the SSDS3) compared to a real PCE-CD/Duo.


neodev suggested 60, I went to 30 and didn't notice a big volume impact:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... u1bS0Q0Oni


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:22 pm 


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I think noise might be a common issue with ODE devices, I never noticed until I captured some Dreamcast footage recently but it sounds like the USB GD-ROM has a angry mosquito stuck in it when it's reading from the USB drive.*

*(unless it's something else in my setup, or there really is a mosquito in here)
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:08 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
Yeah, neodev seems sure that the volume control will totally fix the clipping and the balance will be ok. I'm not sure it will be a "set and forget" type of setting, but it would still significantly improve the value proposition of the SSDS3 for me. Then it's just about taking the video signal right out of the modded console and just get the audio from the SSDS3. Might have to get one of those special cables someone was making to that effect.


FYI the 'clipping issue' only happens in certain games that are louder than others. The REAL problem is the 60-cycle hum and 'activity' noise whenever the SD card is accessed. It's pretty atrocious noise, and once you pick up on it, you can't stop noticing it.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:22 am 


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I put my headphones on and I couldn't notice a hum but there was definitely a bit of a buzz when the SD card was accessed.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:37 am 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
I put my headphones on and I couldn't notice a hum but there was definitely a bit of a buzz when the SD card was accessed.


The hum is during song playback. Try a CD music track with some silent parts and listen for it. Sounds like your typical AC coupling type hum.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:44 am 



Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 9
How can you use the SSD3 with a separate RGB mod? I assume you just use something like Voultar's mod and install a DIN connector on the right hand side (where the existing video connector is). Will using the audio on the DIN port allow you to avoid the audio issues?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:00 pm 


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Jumpingmanjim wrote:
How can you use the SSD3 with a separate RGB mod? I assume you just use something like Voultar's mod and install a DIN connector on the right hand side (where the existing video connector is).


Yep, I'm doing this very mod in fact on my Super Grafx. You can watch Voultar's youtube video on how to do the mod and DIN replacement, although in the case of the Super Grafx, you don't have to cut the video pin in order to isolate it for csync. Instead, simply remove the resistor on the underside that feeds into that pin:

Image

My coaxial-upgraded RGB SCART cable designed for Voultar's mod from Retro-Access just got shipped today, so I should have it by the end of the week. That's actually an important thing to note about the RGB bypass mod with DIN socket replacement: You can't use standard DIN-8 RGB cables on it. It's a custom assignment on the pins, so you have to either re-wire the cable, or buy a custom one like I did.


Quote:
Will using the audio on the DIN port allow you to avoid the audio issues?


I'd say not, because if it did, people would just say to do that mod for both fixes. I don't even know if CD audio even gets mixed on that port, but I'll find out when the cable gets here (or somebody else can clarify in the mean time).
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:04 pm 



Joined: 14 Jan 2014
Posts: 154
FirebrandX,

It does not mix cd audio into that port. People are using special cables for that that grab audio (because it includes cd audio) from the ssds3 and merge it into the rgb from the mod port. Someone’s selling them (they posted to the TO forums) and they’ve been considered pretty good so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:56 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 101
...but note that the breakout cables don’t address the hum or SD access.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:25 pm 



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 18
tzakiel wrote:
FirebrandX,

It does not mix cd audio into that port. People are using special cables for that that grab audio (because it includes cd audio) from the ssds3 and merge it into the rgb from the mod port. Someone’s selling them (they posted to the TO forums) and they’ve been considered pretty good so far.


They are very good. Fully shielded so it does everything it can to minimize the buzz in the cabling itself. But yes, the buzz..especially the SD card access buzz is still noticeable. (Although very minor in my set-up).


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:36 pm 



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 45
RevQuixo wrote:
tzakiel wrote:
FirebrandX,

It does not mix cd audio into that port. People are using special cables for that that grab audio (because it includes cd audio) from the ssds3 and merge it into the rgb from the mod port. Someone’s selling them (they posted to the TO forums) and they’ve been considered pretty good so far.


They are very good. Fully shielded so it does everything it can to minimize the buzz in the cabling itself. But yes, the buzz..especially the SD card access buzz is still noticeable. (Although very minor in my set-up).


Shielding isn't the issue so it's doing nothing for the audio buzzing. Many of us have been using multicore coaxial cabling from the beginning and it's the same wide range of responses on how much each person notices it.

I'm sure it addresses the video problems showing up in many setups but it does nothing for audio.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:20 pm 



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 10
FBX wrote:
Jumpingmanjim wrote:
How can you use the SSD3 with a separate RGB mod? I assume you just use something like Voultar's mod and install a DIN connector on the right hand side (where the existing video connector is).


Yep, I'm doing this very mod in fact on my Super Grafx. You can watch Voultar's youtube video on how to do the mod and DIN replacement, although in the case of the Super Grafx, you don't have to cut the video pin in order to isolate it for csync. Instead, simply remove the resistor on the underside that feeds into that pin:

Image

My coaxial-upgraded RGB SCART cable designed for Voultar's mod from Retro-Access just got shipped today, so I should have it by the end of the week. That's actually an important thing to note about the RGB bypass mod with DIN socket replacement: You can't use standard DIN-8 RGB cables on it. It's a custom assignment on the pins, so you have to either re-wire the cable, or buy a custom one like I did.


Quote:
Will using the audio on the DIN port allow you to avoid the audio issues?


I'd say not, because if it did, people would just say to do that mod for both fixes. I don't even know if CD audio even gets mixed on that port, but I'll find out when the cable gets here (or somebody else can clarify in the mean time).



And yow are you managing audio? you're getting RBG with the voultar mod, are you mixing that with the audio from the SSD3?

edit: I didn't notice the last part of your post.
so if you just add the voultar mod and connect through it and use the SSD3, you won't get any audio from the ODE. If you use the SSD3 audio out then you'll get the audio buzzing with a clear RGB from the voultar's mod. There is no way of fixing both


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:18 pm 


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DrZhark wrote:

And yow are you managing audio? you're getting RBG with the voultar mod, are you mixing that with the audio from the SSD3?



I'm using HD Retrovision cables for Audio out the back of the SSDS3.
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