Super SD System 3

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
User avatar
Syntax
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Syntax »

The revision 2 should not need a bypass mod, Voultar chose that method because the part was ready made and available I'm sure. Plus its a sure way to rule out trace coupling and ground issues.

The revision 2 fixes should be minimal, it will be a trace flaw or coupling cap or something stupid. The core design of the 7374 in Rev 2 should be the same as the amp Voultar used in his recent videos, considering he helped them design it.

If not then we can still do a bypass in the same manor as the revision 1 but with less work id say as the ground planes are seperated already.



@Crazymanzor So are you going to isolate the SSDS3 7374 circuit from the expansion port and din then put your rgb mod in there instead?
It should clean up your image and you dont have to wait for a crazy cable to have sound,

@Wolf_ Forgive me for not being too excited about someone fixing a recalled board revision which has already been redesigned by said person. lol.
Wolf_
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Wolf_ »

Syntax wrote:@Wolf_ Forgive me for not being too excited about someone fixing a recalled board revision which has already been redesigned by said person. lol.
I think even the most ocd among us can agree that the current interference can only be described as minimal and is easily missed. It seems having found one flaw and seeing that things were 99.8% perfect they missed one tiny thing. That isn't unheard of, and the point is it's fixed now. Literally all terraonion has to do is find a way to implement the fix and release it and we have a 100% perfect product on the market.
User avatar
Syntax
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Syntax »

Don't know why you keep saying it's fixed.
A revision 1 was modified in a way that proved good picture could be obtained from the expansion port whilst using an ssds3.

The minimal interference you speak of is a rev 2 thing so another moot point.
The rev 1 boards looked horrid remember?

It will help those that decided to keep their boards but I'm more interested to see what the issue is with these new boards.

In a perfect world Terra would of sent Voultar a rev 2 board to sign off on before mass production but it seems he doesn't even have one yet whilst other members here do.
Wolf_
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Wolf_ »

Syntax wrote:Don't know why you keep saying it's fixed.
A revision 1 was modified in a way that proved good picture could be obtained from the expansion port whilst using an ssds3.

The minimal interference you speak of is a rev 2 thing so another moot point.
The rev 1 boards looked horrid remember?

It will help those that decided to keep their boards but I'm more interested to see what the issue is with these new boards.
He turned the rev1 board he has into a rev2 board when he separated the grounds. Other than that I'm pretty certain they are identical.

So your point that fixing the video on a rev1 board is moot point is actually the moot point.

The only way his fix for the rev1 board wouldn't also work on a rev 2 is if the minimal inference that has been found on rev2s is because something that didn't need to be moved was changed for some reason. I'm going to say them changing something they didn't need to and creating a problem they didn't have before is highly unlikely.
FriendofSonic
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:45 pm

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by FriendofSonic »

I'd love to volunteer to send Voultar my V2 Super SD. Just super curious if he'd uncover anything. The noise in the siginal is interesting and I find it dubious that the SD card accessing buzz could be fixed in firmware but who knows.
User avatar
Gara
Posts: 317
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:33 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Gara »

Neosd is still silent but shipments seem to be progressing like normal. I'm guessing we won't see a third revision until they clear the current stock and resupply. Which means anyone rocking hd retrovision cables can get a fix off one of the guys (hopefully) offering to do a quick component flip.

I hope Terraonion recovers from this hiccup. With them scared off adding video to any future project is a bit sad. Pcfc, 3do, jump to mind.both could really use a built in rgb mod. I'm hoping they move on to the Sega cd. No need to mess with the video and no one else is doing it.
User avatar
Kez
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Kez »

I would be very surprised if they release another revision at this point, they have gone on record at one point saying that they are definitely not making anymore changes.

It is a shame cause these guys are obviously extremely talented and motivated, and the SSDS3 is fundamentally an incredible achievement. But it does seem like this whole debacle is taking a disproportionate emotional toll on some of them, and as much as I like buying neat little gadgets I would rather they do something that allows them to be happier. This is the internet after all, people are assholes here and people will always be assholes here. I think most of the people even discussing the RGB issues are being incredibly polite and understanding given that fact. Mostly people are just wondering about fixes they can implement themselves. If this level of criticism is too much for them, they probably need to find a way to filter it out (hire someone to be public facing, avoid forums, etc).
User avatar
charlie chong
Posts: 1517
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:19 pm
Location: borders

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by charlie chong »

everyone wants the company to succeed.hopefully neosd wont give up.there are so many pc engines in circulation they will sell units for years to come once the word gets out about the product.
User avatar
LDigital
Posts: 342
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:15 am

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by LDigital »

Any ideas what is going on with mine? Earlier post
User avatar
Syntax
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Syntax »

Wolf_ wrote: He turned the rev1 board he has into a rev2 board when he separated the grounds. Other than that I'm pretty certain they are identical.

He fit a 7374 with nothing on the outputs, using csync for sync.

If you refer to the Rev 2 backwards capacitor picture you will find that they used the forth channel of the 7374 to buffer composite video not Csync.
So not identical.
https://twitter.com/voultar/status/9809 ... 70880?s=21
Wolf_ wrote: I'm going to say them changing something they didn't need to and creating a problem they didn't have before is highly unlikely
Like a backwards capacitor?? :P
Last edited by Syntax on Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wolf_
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Wolf_ »

Syntax wrote:
Wolf_ wrote: He turned the rev1 board he has into a rev2 board when he separated the grounds. Other than that I'm pretty certain they are identical.

He fit a 7374 with nothing on the outputs, using csync for sync.

If you refer to the Rev 2 backwards capacitor picture you will find that they used the forth channel of the 7374 to buffer composite video not Csync.
So not identical.
Wolf_ wrote: I'm going to say them changing something they didn't need to and creating a problem they didn't have before is highly unlikely
Like a backwards capacitor?? :P
It wasn't backwards on the rev1 board as well?
User avatar
Syntax
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Syntax »

Hell maybe that picture is actually of a revision 1 board, I dunno I'm running off pictures and stills of videos. It does have the XOR gate still there which I thought was removed from rev 2.
Everyone was having comp scart cable problems so it does make sense.

Still I can only wonder what they did to buffer csync when all the 7374 channels are already populated.

Personally id really like to know whay comp video was buffered at all, every single AV mod i can find has 0 passive components, they just connect straight to the expansion pin.
RevQuixo
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:32 pm

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by RevQuixo »

Gara wrote:Neosd is still silent but shipments seem to be progressing like normal. I'm guessing we won't see a third revision until they clear the current stock and resupply. Which means anyone rocking hd retrovision cables can get a fix off one of the guys (hopefully) offering to do a quick component flip.

I hope Terraonion recovers from this hiccup. With them scared off adding video to any future project is a bit sad. Pcfc, 3do, jump to mind.both could really use a built in rgb mod. I'm hoping they move on to the Sega cd. No need to mess with the video and no one else is doing it.
There is a Spanish holiday all week, so I wouldn't expect much news until next Monday. In terms of what is happening now, from my understanding they are flipping the backwards capacitor on all shipments going out from this point forward. This will likely slow down their shipping efforts as they are a small company. They probably are not going to formally do another revision (except maybe fix the silkscreening on the board and have cap correctly installed by the factory if there is another run). They certainly aren't going to recall/replace the rev. 2s already out there. So we either need to fix it ourselves or stay away from composite video sync cables.
User avatar
Kez
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Kez »

Syntax wrote:Personally id really like to know whay comp video was buffered at all, every single AV mod i can find has 0 passive components, they just connect straight to the expansion pin.
When I was modding my IFU-30, I seem to remember coming across a post on here from someone (I think Voultar) saying the composite video from the expansion pin was no good and to get it from the RCA jack instead.

EDIT: found it
User avatar
mickcris
Posts: 435
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:43 am
Location: Texas, USA

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by mickcris »

Wolf_ wrote:
Syntax wrote:
Wolf_ wrote: He turned the rev1 board he has into a rev2 board when he separated the grounds. Other than that I'm pretty certain they are identical.

He fit a 7374 with nothing on the outputs, using csync for sync.

If you refer to the Rev 2 backwards capacitor picture you will find that they used the forth channel of the 7374 to buffer composite video not Csync.
So not identical.
Wolf_ wrote: I'm going to say them changing something they didn't need to and creating a problem they didn't have before is highly unlikely
Like a backwards capacitor?? :P
It wasn't backwards on the rev1 board as well?
it was backwards on the rev 1 and also the prototype. i took a screenshot from a youtube video on the 1st page
viewtopic.php?p=1289822#p1289822
User avatar
cr4zymanz0r
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:36 am

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by cr4zymanz0r »

Syntax wrote: @Crazymanzor So are you going to isolate the SSDS3 7374 circuit from the expansion port and din then put your rgb mod in there instead?
It should clean up your image and you dont have to wait for a crazy cable to have sound,
I'm not too keen to start making big changes to my SSDS3 until there's been some definitive findings on revision 2. The internal RGB amp in the Core Grafx has already done a good bit of improvement for me, and once I get the parts in it won't be a giant deal for me to make an audio cable to plug into the SSDS3.
User avatar
Gara
Posts: 317
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:33 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Gara »

RevQuixo wrote:
Gara wrote:Neosd is still silent but shipments seem to be progressing like normal. I'm guessing we won't see a third revision until they clear the current stock and resupply. Which means anyone rocking hd retrovision cables can get a fix off one of the guys (hopefully) offering to do a quick component flip.

I hope Terraonion recovers from this hiccup. With them scared off adding video to any future project is a bit sad. Pcfc, 3do, jump to mind.both could really use a built in rgb mod. I'm hoping they move on to the Sega cd. No need to mess with the video and no one else is doing it.
There is a Spanish holiday all week, so I wouldn't expect much news until next Monday. In terms of what is happening now, from my understanding they are flipping the backwards capacitor on all shipments going out from this point forward. This will likely slow down their shipping efforts as they are a small company. They probably are not going to formally do another revision (except maybe fix the silkscreening on the board and have cap correctly installed by the factory if there is another run). They certainly aren't going to recall/replace the rev. 2s already out there. So we either need to fix it ourselves or stay away from composite video sync cables.
Shipping is continuing like normal so I don't think they are flipping the capacitor. I imagine any future production runs will be fixed but I think they are sticking to the "hardly anyone uses it" approach for now.

The forums are now officially on lock down and guests can no longer view the support forum. That's really going to do wonders for their public relations.
SavagePencil
Posts: 628
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:06 pm

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by SavagePencil »

Gara wrote:The forums are now officially on lock down and guests can no longer view the support forum. That's really going to do wonders for their public relations.
Yep. The official ordering site directs customers to the NG forum, which has become completely customer hostile. Guess we wait until they get their site up for actual tech support.
broken
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:40 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by broken »

Let’s not let facts stand in the way of drama.

1. That cap is being flipped/corrected on all shipping orders as of a couple days ago.

2. Rot locked that forum down and not Alex. Actually Alex was very disaappointed by that and trying to get their new support site up ASAP.
Todd of Retro Frog

https://retrofrog.net/
User avatar
Gara
Posts: 317
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:33 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Gara »

broken wrote:Let’s not let facts stand in the way of drama.

1. That cap is being flipped/corrected on all shipping orders as of a couple days ago.

2. Rot locked that forum down and not Alex. Actually Alex was very disaappointed by that and trying to get their new support site up ASAP.

Where are you getting the "as of a couple days" part? There was talk of that being a solution but going off the latest post they just announced all shipments as of today will have the cap flipped. So the people getting shipment notifications the past few days are getting the unmodified rev2 boards. My order is part of that so I guess we will see what I get.
I have been talking with Voultar today about the RGB noise some guys are reporting on the V2 board and others are not.
I think the V2 board is OK and the source of the RGB noise those few guys are reporting is on theyr setup (the console itself, the power supply, the video cable or who knows what) BUT to be sure i am not wrong, i decided to ship a V2 board to Voultar so he can examine it and give us all a conclusion.
Looks like we are back to blaming it on the consoles. It will be interesting to see what Voultar discovers.
broken
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:40 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by broken »

Gara wrote:
broken wrote:Let’s not let facts stand in the way of drama.

1. That cap is being flipped/corrected on all shipping orders as of a couple days ago.

2. Rot locked that forum down and not Alex. Actually Alex was very disaappointed by that and trying to get their new support site up ASAP.

Where are you getting the "as of a couple days" part? There was talk of that being a solution but going off the latest post they just announced all shipments as of today will have the cap flipped. So the people getting shipment notifications the past few days are getting the unmodified rev2 boards. My order is part of that so I guess we will see what I get.
I spoke to Alex on Tuesday and he said he had spent most of that day swapping caps.

and per his comments at NG today:

Originally Posted by neosd
I been flipping the capacitors all day long on the current stock boards, all the boards shipped since today will have the C60 cap flipped.
This is the first batch shipped this week, as people have not let me work on shipments until today, with emails and other stuff.

So todays shipments are the first for the week. So pretty much all boards finished this week and shipped today should have swapped caps.
Todd of Retro Frog

https://retrofrog.net/
Pete2014
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:34 am

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Pete2014 »

I received my rev2 unit a couple of days ago and have been doing some tests myself. I am lucky to be in the possession of several Core Grafx I and II systems, several original white PC Engines, IFU CD-ROM units and various power supplies (original NEC and 3rd party) so I was able to test out quite a few different scenarios.

The Super SD System 3 is definitely outputting scrolling diagonal lines to the image, these lines will look stronger or weaker depending on the console and the game being played, maybe down to the age of the consoles or the different components in each. All the stock white PCEs I tested had a lot of visible noise, the Core Grafx I and II gave me less noise, I have one Core Grafx that has been jailbar fixed and the diagonal lines are barely noticeable, although they are there, you can see them on solid backgrounds.

Also you can notice the diagonal lines move with the music, the easy test is to load Dungeon Explorer and start the game, you can see the lines in the blue background and watch them changing as the music plays.

I was interested to see Voultar bypass the RGB encoder in the Super System 3 and get a clean noise free image display. I don't have any boards from Voultar but I have a couple of the PCE AV Driver boards from Tim, I wonder if they could be used for the same purpose?
User avatar
Strider77
Posts: 4716
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:01 am

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Strider77 »

Someone should send one of these to Drakkon... then post pictures of what they get back.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
Wolf_
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Wolf_ »

Strider77 wrote:Someone should send one of these to Drakkon... then post pictures of what they get back.
The forensics lab would be like "This console appears to be filled with jizz, and someone wrote "I AM THE GREATEST!!!1101" in what appears to be human feces. My God they have a lot of corn in their diet. Also... is that a dead hamster?"
User avatar
LDigital
Posts: 342
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:15 am

Super SD System 3

Post by LDigital »

So if someone has a pce rgb amp and a v1 are there steps that can be taken to install the amp and create a perfect unit with zero issues by disconnecting the earths etc and bypassing parts for the sd system rgb circuit ?

I have all the kit and I’m worried he’s not going to do v1 swaps after the meltdown so might take things into my own hands
User avatar
BuckoA51
Posts: 3358
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:08 am
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by BuckoA51 »

Wild and probably stupid theory time... is anyone seeing the diagonal lines running the unit in Europe, or are you all in the USA?
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
User avatar
Kez
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Kez »

UK here
User avatar
BuckoA51
Posts: 3358
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:08 am
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by BuckoA51 »

Fair enough, I have a DVDO Edge at the moment that shows noise on 50hz sources, while 60hz is just fine, so just got me thinking.
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
ErebusMaligan
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by ErebusMaligan »

Has anyone played any games that make use of extensive save/loading?

Trying to play through Ys 1 & 2, and mine seems to freeze every 4-5 times i try to save. Most of the times it just hangs forever and never saves. One time it caused a black screen, one other time it caused garbled graphics and still hung. Tried changing all the settings, and the cd card version i'm using. The only setting i haven't turned off is the save per game option, because i was already too far in to start over.

At first i thought it might be the sd card extension cable i was using, so i took that out of the equation, but still no dice.
Dochartaigh
Posts: 1520
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:53 pm

Re: Super SD System 3

Post by Dochartaigh »

ErebusMaligan wrote:Has anyone played any games that make use of extensive save/loading?

Trying to play through Ys 1 & 2, and mine seems to freeze every 4-5 times i try to save. Most of the times it just hangs forever and never saves. One time it caused a black screen, one other time it caused garbled graphics and still hung. Tried changing all the settings, and the cd card version i'm using. The only setting i haven't turned off is the save per game option, because i was already too far in to start over.

At first i thought it might be the sd card extension cable i was using, so i took that out of the equation, but still no dice.
In other posts when people had freezing they turned off the in-game trigger which is talked about in the instructions and the game(s) didn't freeze anymore. I don't know if this is the latest manual (don't think it is), but it's here:

http://www.neosdstore.com/news/wp-conte ... UAL_v2.pdf
Post Reply