Sigma sticks

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kemical
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Sigma sticks

Post by kemical »

http://www.datatragedy.com/temp/sigma01.jpg

I recently snatched up this joystick for a few dollars, It's a Sigma one, in excellent condition, almost looks unused as far as the paint condition goes, I'm guessing it's really old though.


anyone have any tech info or history on sigma?

http://www.datatragedy.com/temp/sigma03.jpg
it came with a cable that goes from a 13 pin connection to a 9 pin genesis style plug (the 4 directions and one button work, but that's normal since those inputs aren't encoded on genesis(??) it would most likely work on an atari 2600 also)

anyway, it has 6 buttons, but it's interesting because 2 are labeled select and start, the cable may have just been a custom one.

I'm guessing the 13 pins are for each button, and it seems that way from what I've poked around at with a multimeter so far.

I don't know what pin is for voltage yet, since it has rapid fire and slow motion (related to start being pause I assume) + some other buttons for lock and a-b, I'm assuming you can lock either A or B as always on for autofire.

Not sure what stick it is, looks like seimitsu from the materials, but also sanwa shaped + curves, maybe an old sanwa. it's interesting also because the bottom section has a thumbscrew which removes a small metal covering so you can access the joystick and change it if needed.

http://www.datatragedy.com/temp/sigma02.jpg
http://www.datatragedy.com/temp/sigma04.jpg
http://www.datatragedy.com/temp/sigma_pcb.jpg
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Dave_K.
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Post by Dave_K. »

Wow, looks like a great find if you picked it up for only a couple dollars! Thats a real arcade semitsu joystick. Not sure about the PCB, but buttons look like old Neo-Geo style. Looks like rapid fire on/off functionality for each button. Very cool. With that connector, it looks like the stick is compatible only with old consoles that use simple ground based switching buttons/sticks. Won't be compatible with any modern consoles unless you want to hack a PS2 PCB to that connector for each button/stick direction. Just use a multimeter to trace back what each pin connects to.
MKL
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Post by MKL »

Very nice. It looks better than the later models that came with the Sigma 6000 or 7000. The buttons must also be Seimitsu (the black edges are a dead giveaway) and the 13-pin connector is mini DIN type. Kemical, do you mind to post the dimensions of the base?
kemical
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Post by kemical »

the base is almost 12" wide, 7.5" in depth, and about 1.5" tall at the back and 0.75" in the front.

also, the buttons used are the small start button sized ones.

not sure if it is a mini-din connector (not like s-video), it's the same size as US turbografx controller connectors, or the a/v out on the back of a model 1 genesis (about half an inch wide)


I just realized I was using the multimeter in a stupid slow way for finding what pin goes to what button, :oops: so I might have a neogeo style connector made for it later today.
MKL
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Post by MKL »

kemical wrote: not sure if it is a mini-din connector (not like s-video), it's the same size as US turbografx controller connectors, or the a/v out on the back of a model 1 genesis (about half an inch wide)
My bad, not mini DIN but just DIN.
MKL
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Post by MKL »

Actually, it doesn't look like any of the sticks currently made by Seimitsu. Look especially at the green plastic part where the microswitches sit: it's not found an any Seimitsu or Sanwa sticks but it's the same as those in Neo Geo old style sticks:

http://www.datatragedy.com/temp/sigma_pcb.jpg
http://img500.imageshack.us/img500/1242 ... ck26gk.jpg
http://img500.imageshack.us/img500/310/neostick4sk.jpg
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oxtsu
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Post by oxtsu »

Sigma is primarily a maker of pachinko machines. Thankfully, they make some nice Supergun on the side. The Sigma stick you have there is the earliest of theirs that I've seen (guessing late '80s-early '90s). It's meant for universal use, with seperate cables sold for different console (controller encoder should be outboard on the cable). The stick model is indeed Seimitsu (nobody else makes that guide and restrictor...Sigma uses only off-the-shelf arcade parts). I don't know what the actual part number is. Looks like a precursor to LS-33, with the shaft diameter and compact design.

It's curious that the stick doesn't work for you kemical, except for directional and 1 button. Maybe something (cable/encoder?) was broken before you bought it. Changing the DIN connector to a more common DB15 is a good plan. Then you can fabricate your own outboard encoders.

Some other Sigma product --

http://members.cox.net/oxtsu-agb/Sigma_AV1000.jpg
http://members.cox.net/oxtsu-agb/Sigma_AV1000_2.jpg

http://members.cox.net/oxtsu-agb/Sigma_AV3000.jpg

http://members.cox.net/oxtsu-agb/av5000_prostick.jpg

http://members.cox.net/oxtsu-agb/Sigma_RAIJIN_1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/oxtsu-agb/Sigma_RAIJIN_2.jpg
http://members.cox.net/oxtsu-agb/Sigma_RAIJIN_3.jpg

Not Sigma, but interesting stuff from the era --

http://members.cox.net/oxtsu-agb/Ascii_ ... TSU_01.jpg
http://members.cox.net/oxtsu-agb/ASCII_ ... TSU_02.jpg

http://members.cox.net/oxtsu-agb/Pasoko_1000_SANWA.jpg
MKL
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Post by MKL »

oxtsu wrote:The stick model is indeed Seimitsu (nobody else makes that guide and restrictor...Sigma uses only off-the-shelf arcade parts). I don't know what the actual part number is. Looks like a precursor to LS-33, with the shaft diameter and compact design.
If it really is a Seimitsu stick then the Neo Geo stick must also be made by Seimitsu (see my post above). It may be noted that the Capcom Power Fighter stick for SNES was made by Sanwa even though it might not necessarily have been an actual arcade part.
kemical
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Post by kemical »

hey, thanks for the info and pictures, I figured out the din pinout and everything seems to be functioning ok, I'm working on making a short din to db-15 conversion cable, using the neogeo specs. I'll get a pinout image made and posted soon.

I was trying to fit the standard sanwa stick in, but the screw holes don't line up plus it won't fit correctly wiht the base cover on, but all seimitsu sticks I have work fine. Keeping the original stick in it though because of the very short shaft length and it feels pretty rigid similar to sanwa.
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oxtsu
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Post by oxtsu »

MKL -- Guess so. It would likely be closer to an LS-33, which is soft feeling compared to the other Seimitsu sticks.
I suspect you would like to use it as a bragging point about NeoGeo AES, no? :wink:

kemical -- You're most welcome. Forgot to mention before, the opening on the bottom plate is put there to make it easier to change the restrictor between 2, 4, and 8-way operation. Did you try to fit an LS-32 in there, btw?
MKL
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Post by MKL »

oxtsu wrote:MKL -- Guess so. It would likely be closer to an LS-33, which is soft feeling compared to the other Seimitsu sticks.
I suspect you would like to use it as a bragging point about NeoGeo AES, no? :wink:
Well no because I think the Neo stick with its very short throw is better than any present Seimitsu or Sanwa stick. Neo buttons on the other hand are crap...
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SAM
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Post by SAM »

Look like you got a very good Joystick.
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GaijinPunch
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Post by GaijinPunch »

I have one of the newer Sigma joysticks. If you need the pinout (I assume it's the same) I can scan it and send it to you, although I guess you wouldn't if you don't have a Sigma Supergun.

If you're up for making an extra DIN to DSUB15 cable for a fee, let me know. I need one to make another converter, and I destroyed a DIN already trying to do it. Got about 8 points in, and then fucked it up. :)
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kemical
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Post by kemical »

the pinout on this stick is something like this:

(the female end at the joystick)

Code: Select all

   V
O O O O
O O O O
O O O O
   O

01 02 03 04
05 06 07 08
09 10 11 12
      13
1- start
2- ??
3- Down
4- ground
5- select
6- C
7- Left
8- D
9- A
10- B
11- Right
12- Up
13- 5v ??


I'd make another din to dsub cable, but I couldn't find any din connectors locally that would be suitable, I had to end up resoldering wires onto the pins of the existing din connector :\
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GaijinPunch
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Post by GaijinPunch »

I'd make another din to dsub cable, but I couldn't find any din connectors locally that would be suitable, I had to end up resoldering wires onto the pins of the existing din connector :\
I'll check the pinout when I get home. 13-pin DINN connectors are hard to come by. Matt sold me two of them that he had lying around... one isn't really useable next time. :/

How's Dallas these days? I grew up in Garland, btw.
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kemical
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Post by kemical »

yeah, I was hoping to find maybe some universal din connector full of holes for pins that I could pop in, but no luck at any of the retail electronic parts stores.

the stick works pretty well though, i just wish it had the normal larger buttons on it, the autofire on it is kinda crazy, I measured it and it seems to go up to around 120 hz, which I guess is too much for games since they probably only register up to 60hz or maybe a bit less, not sure how that factors in with the game's timing and refresh rate :?


dallas is pretty nice (chicago is better 8) ), i've only been here for about 2 years now, in Allen now which is borderline farmland, but probably moving way out to denton a bit later this month. :)
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GaijinPunch
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Post by GaijinPunch »

Oh, shit! Denton? Not my cup of tea. Not that Garland is any better. But yeah, I know where Allan is. I'm sure you could go see cows within a 15 minute drive if you wanted. :)

The later sigma sticks have a dial to adjust the auto-fire. They are fantastic sticks. Pricey as shit, but worth it.
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