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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:28 pm 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 181
marqs wrote:
For 1) you need to disconnect BH7236AF video encoder pin 6 and connect that to snes_dejitter CPLD pin 11 which provides clean subcarrier. I think there was some discussion about this a few pages back. The latest firmware from nes-fix branch must also be installed on the board.

Great, thank you marqs, that explains it. I did see the subcarrier discussion earlier but it went over my head at the time.

marqs wrote:
2) sounds strange, are you sure your display has showed it correctly in that mode earlier? You might also want to take a look into NESRGB dejitter modification which might be easier in the end if you want to preserve cvbs & s-video.

Full disclosure, I have had trouble with 256x240 optim mode on the NES even before this. Most recently I couldn't find sampling settings that gave me a completely clean picture, but at least I was able to see the full width of the image. I suspected my dejitter rewiring was responsible for this setback, but perhaps it's unrelated. Maybe my NES and display are just not destined to be compatible with 256x240.

I was actually contemplating upgrading to the NESRGB 2.0 with built-in dejitter. I'll have to weigh that versus getting into the dejitter board firmware updating. I recall the earlier discussions about how complex that can be. Anyway, thanks again for your help.


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:37 am 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 975
I honestly haven't been following this much, but do see people post about issues with NES/SNES and the OSSC, and the dejitter mod as a fix for it. I'm just curious about what percentage of people have problems with setups like these?

I'm getting more into learning how to properly upscale and tested my (RGB) NES and SNES 1-CHIP03 (with CSYNC mod) with an OSSC over the weekend. Maybe tested 5-7 games on each, for roughly 5-10 minutes each, and didn't have any issues in 4x and 5x mode (don't really use the lower multipliers) on my TCL 4K TV. Should it be safe to say that my exact consoles won't give me problems in the future? Are there certain games which more commonly give people problems?

I did notice that when I routed the NES and SNES from the OSSC to an Extron DSC 301 HD that the image was a flickery mess (could still see and read everything, just like black horizontal bar-things making the picture look like crap). Switched to Genesis, Saturn, and PS1 and it was fine with the OSSC + DSC combo. I'm assuming the DSC doesn't like the non-standard NES/SNES sync then, right? Honestly can't think of an instance when I would use non-480p consoles with the DSC, but who knows what the future may hold as I start experimenting more.


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:13 am 


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Joined: 19 Jan 2016
Posts: 295
Location: Sweden
Dochartaigh wrote:
. Should it be safe to say that my exact consoles won't give me problems in the future? .


No because it’s not about the consoles (or the OSSC) it is about display tolerance. So if you switch display, it may then be incompatible due to the jitter.
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OSSC TV Compatibility report thread


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:58 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1424
Dochartaigh wrote:
I honestly haven't been following this much, but do see people post about issues with NES/SNES and the OSSC, and the dejitter mod as a fix for it. I'm just curious about what percentage of people have problems with setups like these?

It's not a problem with the NES/SNES and the OSSC, it's a problem with the NES/SNES and other connected equipment. The OSSC is one of the few devices that doesn't actually have a problem with the janky sync from these consoles; but I think people say it's a problem with the OSSC, because the OSSC doesn't smooth-over the problem for them, instead just passing on the janky sync to downstream AV devices.

Dochartaigh wrote:
Honestly can't think of an instance when I would use non-480p consoles with the DSC, but who knows what the future may hold as I start experimenting more.

I don't use 240 directly with my DSC, but I'll run them through the OSSC. I'll have multipliers on 240p, but I'll let the DSC do scaling to my display's native 1360somethingx768; and I might have 480i set to either 3x or passthrough, so that the DSC will deinterlace and scale it.


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:45 am 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 181
marqs wrote:
For 1) you need to disconnect BH7236AF video encoder pin 6 and connect that to snes_dejitter CPLD pin 11 which provides clean subcarrier.

Okay, I've decided I will try to do this. Can anyone confirm if the following would be a successful way to do it?

1) Remove the circled capacitor to (I think?) disconnect the original NESRGB subcarrier from the video encoder?

2) Jumper snes_dejitter CPLD pin 11 to the right pad of the removed NESRGB capacitor?

Image

I also found this helpful arthrimus video on how to update the firmware.


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:58 am 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 181
On further examination, it looks like the removing the circled resistor would disconnect the NESRGB subcarrier.

Then I could connect the dejittered subcarrier straight to pin 6 of the video encoder, or perhaps to the right end of the capacitor? Either way, should the capacitor be removed?

Image

(BTW, I should note that these images are not of my actual NESRGB, on which I've already wired the dejittered csync into the video encoder.)


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:44 pm 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 660
Location: Finland
copy wrote:
Then I could connect the dejittered subcarrier straight to pin 6 of the video encoder, or perhaps to the right end of the capacitor? Either way, should the capacitor be removed?
That trace indeed seems to lead there, but you should verify it with a multimeter continuity check. It should be ok to leave the cap there.


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:02 am 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 181
marqs wrote:
That trace indeed seems to lead there, but you should verify it with a multimeter continuity check. It should be ok to leave the cap there.

Thanks again marqs. The continuity does check out on my multimeter. I will try this in the near future and report back.


Switching to the SNES: I successfully installed dejitter in my 1CHIP-02 this weekend. Regarding my earlier question on how best to connect csync with an RGB bypass board, I concluded it is best to send the dejitter CSYNC_o straight to pin 3 of the multiout. I also found yet another arthrimus video where he already discovered the same thing.

(TL;DR version: I first experimented with connecting dejitter CPLD pin 15 straight to the "CS" input on the RGB bypass, on the grounds that the RGB bypass is designed to accept the higher Vpp csync signal from the SNES CPU.

This gave mixed results: the OSSC accepted the resulting csync output from the RGB bypass board just fine. However, the Framemeister produced only audio and no video. I found that I could achieve a picture on the Framemeister by increasing its SYNC_LEVEL setting. But this worried me that the csync signal was maybe off spec.

I didn't want to risk having an improper csync that could cause any problems in the future with any devices. After connecting dejitter CSYNC_o to the multiout, both the Framemeister and OSSC worked with their default settings, so that way seems like it will be more reliable overall.)

Oh yeah, and I've decided I'm not going to worry about dejittered composite and s-video on SNES since it would require lifting pins, and I'm not confident I could do that.


Image


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:54 am 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 660
Location: Finland
Fron what I see from the RGB bypass board picture, CS is routed to THS7374 input through a voltage divider, and its output is routed to multiAV pin through a 470ohm resistor. If you wire 2.5Vpp sync from dejitter board to CS pin (instead of 5Vpp from the CPU/PPU) and use a cable that has another 470ohm resistor on sync like, then (depending on input voltage divider resistor values) you could end up with lower than nominal sync level which should still work if you respectively adjust sync threshold on OSSC/FM. If you hook up dejitter csync directly to multiAV, then I'd remove that 470ohm resistor from RGB bypass board output side to avoid multiple drive.


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:56 pm 


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Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 66
Location: Arkansas
marqs wrote:
If you hook up dejitter csync directly to multiAV, then I'd remove that 470ohm resistor from RGB bypass board output side to avoid multiple drive.

I can confirm that this should be done if you run the csync_o directly to the AV out. I ran into issues with one of my early RGB Bypass and dejitter installs when I failed to do this.
_________________
plus ça change,
plus c'est la même chose,
The more that things change,
The more they stay the same.- RUSH- Circumstances

I install and sell mods at arthrimus.com | SNES RGB Bypass+Dejitter available now! | Watch me live stream my work on YouTube


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:54 pm 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 181
Thanks guys. I'll remove that 470 ohm resistor. I have also now closed the J3 jumper on the dejitter board.


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:07 pm 



Joined: 02 Sep 2016
Posts: 147
Do I need to use any special (shielded) cables if I wire a dejitter ON/OFF switch with the SNES?

Here is from the FAQ:
Quote:
Is it possible to disable de-jitter functionality after installation?

When the board is installed so that MCLK_EXT_i and CLK_SEL_i are not used, a simple bypass can be added without firmware modifications. To do that, connect MCLK_EXT_i to CPLD pin 34 (MCLK_XTAL_o) and add a ON-OFF switch that connects MCLK_SEL_i to 5V.


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:06 am 



Joined: 06 Sep 2018
Posts: 3
Hi guys, i decided to update the firmware on my NESRGB 1.4 board and use the dejitter firmware, however in the instructions on Tim page maybe there is something wrong, it says to isolate the PPU pin 18 (clock) and to solder a wire between this pin and pad 2. It shouldn't be pad 3? after update to the dejitter firmware, pad 3 becomes PPU clock output, and pad 2 now is Sync input, and following the instructions, pad 2 already has a bridge between it and the CS# pad. Can someone give me a light, i don't wanna blow up my poor AV Famicom! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:56 pm 



Joined: 24 Aug 2019
Posts: 1
Cloudmp wrote:
Hi guys, i decided to update the firmware on my NESRGB 1.4 board and use the dejitter firmware, however in the instructions on Tim page maybe there is something wrong, it says to isolate the PPU pin 18 (clock) and to solder a wire between this pin and pad 2. It shouldn't be pad 3? after update to the dejitter firmware, pad 3 becomes PPU clock output, and pad 2 now is Sync input, and following the instructions, pad 2 already has a bridge between it and the CS# pad. Can someone give me a light, i don't wanna blow up my poor AV Famicom! :lol:


I've just finished doing this myself today, mine is a 1.4 board in an original Famicom. It took a bit of time to get it working right, so I though I would post the issues I encountered to help out anyone else trying to do the same. I also discovered that my board is one of the ones with the dodgy voltage regulators, so I took the opportunity to do the capacitor fix as Tim suggests on his website.

Yes you're are right, it's palette pad 3 that outputs the new clock signal to the PPU, not pad 2 - the instructions would appear to be wrong. Also, I found that J8 must be open (not mentioned in the instructions). The biggest issue I had though is that the 1.9A firmware does not work! It doesn't seem to produce a valid clock signal for the PPU and the console fails to operate. 1.9 works perfectly, and I'm happy enough sticking with the older palette, as that's what was in the 1.8 firmware anyway.

It's taken me a fair few hours of repeatedly re-flashing and investigating with a multi-meter to figure all this out and finally get it working properly, so I hope this info is of use to someone!


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:48 pm 



Joined: 06 Sep 2018
Posts: 3
Cloudmp wrote:
Hi guys, i decided to update the firmware on my NESRGB 1.4 board and use the dejitter firmware, however in the instructions on Tim page maybe there is something wrong, it says to isolate the PPU pin 18 (clock) and to solder a wire between this pin and pad 2. It shouldn't be pad 3? after update to the dejitter firmware, pad 3 becomes PPU clock output, and pad 2 now is Sync input, and following the instructions, pad 2 already has a bridge between it and the CS# pad. Can someone give me a light, i don't wanna blow up my poor AV Famicom! :lol:



I talked with Tim via email and yes, the tutorial was wrong, you need to solder pin 18 of the PPU on pad 3 of the NESRGB board, instead of pad 2. He already fixed this typo on his site.


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:47 am 



Joined: 06 Sep 2018
Posts: 3
lilock3 wrote:
Cloudmp wrote:
Hi guys, i decided to update the firmware on my NESRGB 1.4 board and use the dejitter firmware, however in the instructions on Tim page maybe there is something wrong, it says to isolate the PPU pin 18 (clock) and to solder a wire between this pin and pad 2. It shouldn't be pad 3? after update to the dejitter firmware, pad 3 becomes PPU clock output, and pad 2 now is Sync input, and following the instructions, pad 2 already has a bridge between it and the CS# pad. Can someone give me a light, i don't wanna blow up my poor AV Famicom! :lol:


I've just finished doing this myself today, mine is a 1.4 board in an original Famicom. It took a bit of time to get it working right, so I though I would post the issues I encountered to help out anyone else trying to do the same. I also discovered that my board is one of the ones with the dodgy voltage regulators, so I took the opportunity to do the capacitor fix as Tim suggests on his website.

Yes you're are right, it's palette pad 3 that outputs the new clock signal to the PPU, not pad 2 - the instructions would appear to be wrong. Also, I found that J8 must be open (not mentioned in the instructions). The biggest issue I had though is that the 1.9A firmware does not work! It doesn't seem to produce a valid clock signal for the PPU and the console fails to operate. 1.9 works perfectly, and I'm happy enough sticking with the older palette, as that's what was in the 1.8 firmware anyway.

It's taken me a fair few hours of repeatedly re-flashing and investigating with a multi-meter to figure all this out and finally get it working properly, so I hope this info is of use to someone!



Yes, the firmware 1.9A was also wrong on Tim's site! He already corrected that (he told me by email), and i can confirm that now it works, because i did this process yesterday and it was all smooth for me. luckily the J8 was already open on mine, so i didn't encounter the problem you had, and as a side note, my board was also with the fake voltage regulator, and i fixed that too.

If you want to use the FBX smooth pallet, you can flash the 1.9A without any problems now, only be sure to download the correct one, that is on Tim's site since 08/26


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:52 pm 


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Joined: 30 Aug 2019
Posts: 19
Location: Italy
Could you guys reccomend me some resources, or practice projects that I could do to get good at soldering before moving onto a sensitive project such as this?


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 Post subject: Re: NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:21 pm 



Joined: 06 Sep 2019
Posts: 1
Hello, I put the dejitter chip on a PAL SNES for a friend who have the Super CIC and it really works great ^^
I tested before and after soldering the dejitter with the Framemeister. Even if this is pretty subtle, we can see that the image lacks of stability without the dejitter. After soldering the dejitter, the image is perfectly stable, so this is really a great find, thank you.

However, I was surprised to see there was not a diagram for the PAL SNES in the installation folder in Github. I came here to summit my own diagram. I tested it today and there is no mistake. Also, there are the two possibilities when the user can have the csync in the luma or cvideo signal, or the two of them. Also, you can note that SNSP-CPU-01 and SNSP-CPU-02 are almost identical, so your instructions and the diagram work for the two of them.

Image

Edit: I made a pull request on the Github project during the approval of my message.


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