Bought a trinitron kv-29cl11e, image is dull?

[karmeck]

Hardware: Sony trinitron kv29cl11e, raspberry pi 3, rgb-pi scart ( rgb-pi.com ) plunged in to scart 1.

So i just got this tv home and booted up some super Mario world. I'm coming from a B&O MX7000 and coming from that to this, the colors seem dull. Don't know if I'm permanently "damaged" from the contrast screen on the MX 7000 or if there is something els.

just look at it, I think its the reds that are off.

Spoiler

Now you say, why dont you use all the other thread on this subject, well, it seems the service menus are different.

main service menu

Spoiler

geometry

Spoiler

service

Spoiler

and here the color bar test in the 240p test suit:

Spoiler

as you can see in the test suit, the red is going towards orange. why?

as you can see in the service menu, the red high lighting the current option is a different red, compered to the red in Marios name and the red in the 240p test suit. How can this be? should they not be the same kind of red?

And every time the game fades out and in I get a short hint of a perfectly calibrated color.

I also do not know if my tv have this "red push", can not find it in the regular menu and the name for it I found online I cant find in my service menu.

So, are the colors bad or is this what neutral looks like? (orange red is normal?)

service manuaL:
http://diagramasde.com/diagramas/televisores/KV-29CL11[B-E-K]%20Ch%20FE-2.pdf



Edit:
So I was thinking, maybe it has something to do with the coding on the rgb-pi so I tested sega genesis instead:

Green:

Spoiler

Blue:

Spoiler

Red:

Spoiler

it's not just the snes.....

edit 2: But it might be the emulators

Spoiler

outside the emulators the red i fine. if you look at this image and rhe "red" at the same time you can see a clear differens.

maybe nothing can or should be done in the settings about this. Will talk with the creator of rgb-pi and report back here.

[karmeck]

A solution has been presented to me and I post it here in hope of helping someone with simular issues.

Hi, I think this can be caused bu he 16Bits framebuffer, you can try to run the games at 18Bits modify the file /share/RGB-Pi/Fonctions.py

Search this lines

os.system("fbset -depth 8 && fbset -depth 16")

def es_restore_screen():

with open('/boot/config.txt', 'r') as f:
hdmitimings = f.readline()
hdmitimings = hdmitimings[:12] + ' ' + hdmitimings[13:]
os.system("vcgencmd " + hdmitimings)
#os.system("tvservice -e \"DMT 87\"")
os.system("fbset -depth 8 && fbset -depth 16")

And change the number 16 by 24 like this

os.system("fbset -depth 8 && fbset -depth 24")

def es_restore_screen():

with open('/boot/config.txt', 'r') as f:
hdmitimings = f.readline()
hdmitimings = hdmitimings[:12] + ' ' + hdmitimings[13:]
os.system("vcgencmd " + hdmitimings)
#os.system("tvservice -e \"DMT 87\"")
os.system("fbset -depth 8 && fbset -depth 24")

However in the new version of rgb-pi 18bit seems to be the default according to the change log.

[FinalBaton]

IMO what you first need to do is to connect another source(console) to the TV. That will help you determine right away tell wether the problem is the Pi or the TV(my guess is the TV though), and then you'll be able to focus on the macine to tweak. It will prevent you from loosing your time tweaking a component that is not even causing the problem.

I have a later Trinitron model and it also suffers from the lighter reds being orangey. Like yours, the dark reds are perfectly fine but the lighter reds are dull and orange.
You are lucky though, you have a nice option in the service menu that I wish I had : the Red Offset parameter(called Offset - R on your set). I highly suggest that you try and tweak it, this might just do the trick. This parameter should change the tint of the red channel in some capacity. Adjust it and validate the results with your red ramp in the 240p suite.

Failing that you can also try adjusting R - Drive(it dials the intensity of the lighter reds) but I doubt that it will fix your issue(it didn't on my set).

Of course, make sure you write down the current value of settings you're about to tweak, in case you need to go back to them

[karmeck]

IMO what you first need to do is to connect another source(console) to the TV. That will help you determine right away tell wether the problem is the Pi or the TV(my guess is the TV though), and then you'll be able to focus on the macine to tweak. It will prevent you from loosing your time tweaking a component that is not even causing the problem.

I have a later Trinitron model and it also suffers from the lighter reds being orangey. Like yours, the dark reds are perfectly fine but the lighter reds are dull and orange.
You are lucky though, you have a nice option in the service menu that I wish I had : the Red Offset parameter(called Offset - R on your set). I highly suggest that you try and tweak it, this might just do the trick. This menu should change the tint of the red channel.

Failing that you can also try adjusting R - Drive(it dials the intensity of the lighter reds) but I doubt that it will fix your issue(it didn't on my set).

Of course, make sure you write down the current value of settings you're about to tweak, in case you need to go back to them

Thank you, it's hard to find someone that understands this service menu as most here use the American version.

I however stand firm with my belive that nothing is wrong with the TV, the problem is with how the emulator handels colors.

As you can see in the images where I show the service menu, the highlighting red is perfectly red. As are the snes logo inside retro pie (image below edit 2).

[FinalBaton]

Thank you, it's hard to find someone that understands this service menu as most here use the American version.

I however stand firm with my belive that nothing is wrong with the TV, the problem is with how the emulator handels colors.

As you can see in the images where I show the service menu, the highlighting red is perfectly red. As are the snes logo inside retro pie (image below edit 2).

And I'll come back to the charge and say : have you tried another video source to confirm this?

My late Sony trinitron behaves exactly like yours will ALL sources : dark reds are perfectly fine but lighter reds are dull

[22point8]

The red might be because NTSC standard red is more towards orange than REC709 or PAL red, also because the default colour temperature on consumer CRT is 9300K the red is 'pushed' in an attempt to look better on the P22 phosphor, this isn't a problem on SMPTE-C or EBU phosphor CRT.

[karmeck]

Thank you, it's hard to find someone that understands this service menu as most here use the American version.

I however stand firm with my belive that nothing is wrong with the TV, the problem is with how the emulator handels colors.

As you can see in the images where I show the service menu, the highlighting red is perfectly red. As are the snes logo inside retro pie (image below edit 2).

And I'll come back to the charge and say : have you tried another video source to confirm this?

My late Sony trinitron behaves exactly like yours will ALL sources : dark reds are perfectly fine but lighter reds are dull

Well I can at least try edit the settings you suggested, will do so tomorrow. Though I did try edit offset red previously, tok it all the way down to 0 and nothing happens. Did not try to go upp though. And if I edit the difrent drive parameters for red, green and blue only the system text change. I can see no change on the test image.

The red might be because NTSC standard red is more towards orange than REC709 or PAL red, also because the default colour temperature on consumer CRT is 9300K the red is 'pushed' in an attempt to look better on the P22 phosphor, this isn't a problem on SMPTE-C or EBU phosphor CRT.

Built in to the rgb-pi OS is an option to chose 50hz or 60hz at the start of each game that supports it. The red did not change though no matter what hz I chose. I'm using the pal version of super Mario world and have run it in both 50hz and 60hz with no difference in color.

Have looked for the red-push setting but can not find it, not in normal or system menu.

[karmeck]

I tried to change some settings but saw no difference. Maybe it only register changes of i stay on the channel the TV select at start. Previous I have changed to av to change color while having my snes emulator running.

Will try that later.

Offset red did nothing while on the test image.

[Syntax]

Be sure to press mute then 0 to save Sony service menu changes.

[karmeck]

Be sure to press mute then 0 to save Sony service menu changes.

Should I not see the changes before saving?
The geometry changes I made did not need mute 0 to be saved

[karmeck]

IMO what you first need to do is to connect another source(console) to the TV. That will help you determine right away tell wether the problem is the Pi or the TV(my guess is the TV though), and then you'll be able to focus on the macine to tweak. It will prevent you from loosing your time tweaking a component that is not even causing the problem.

I have a later Trinitron model and it also suffers from the lighter reds being orangey. Like yours, the dark reds are perfectly fine but the lighter reds are dull and orange.
You are lucky though, you have a nice option in the service menu that I wish I had : the Red Offset parameter(called Offset - R on your set). I highly suggest that you try and tweak it, this might just do the trick. This parameter should change the tint of the red channel in some capacity. Adjust it and validate the results with your red ramp in the 240p suite.

Failing that you can also try adjusting R - Drive(it dials the intensity of the lighter reds) but I doubt that it will fix your issue(it didn't on my set).

Of course, make sure you write down the current value of settings you're about to tweak, in case you need to go back to them

Well I did as you said. I connect my computer to the TV using hdmi-scart.

Result:

Computer red test image:

Spoiler

Rgb-pi "red" image

Spoiler

I think it might not be the TV after all.

Color bar:

Computer:

Spoiler

Rgb-pi:

Spoiler

But at the same time, there is nothing wrong with the rgb-pi either. Tested it on an other TV and the red is fine there.

Tried to connect the rgb-pi through a vcr, no dice, almost all black images. Could barely make anything out.

Got a replay to my email:

I think is the TV and problem with 1920 resolutions.

Emulationstation in RGB-Pi mod use 450x270 and the games run under 1920x240 or 1920x288 etc...

This is the only explaination, some TVs under 1920 resolution have this issue with the red.

Is possible change 1920 for lowest resolution to reach the solution, give me more time to investigate.

[karmeck]

I have now tested again with an outer source, this time a dvd player with scart and usb. Red is fine. so it is not the tv.

So, it is like the developer told me something about the 1920 resolution.

[vj88]

Hi there, my tv is similar kv29cl11k and everything tend to yellow here too. Test whit ps1, ps2, game cube, sega mega drive...all in rgb.
If you go to "design" and change CDec to 1000 colours will be back to normal again....buuuuut.... it seems that you can't save this settings...as soon as you close service menu yello will strikes back!

[vj88]

Hi there, my tv is similar kv29cl11k and everything tend to yellow here too. Test whit ps1, ps2, game cube, sega mega drive...all in rgb.
If you go to "design" and change CDec to 1000 colours will be back to normal again....buuuuut.... it seems that you can't save this settings...as soon as you close service menu yello will strikes back!

[vj88]

Hi there, my tv is similar kv29cl11k and everything tend to yellow here too. Test whit ps1, ps2, game cube, sega mega drive...all in rgb.
If you go to "design" and change CDec to 1000 colours will be back to normal again....buuuuut.... it seems that you can't save this settings...as soon as you close service menu yello will strikes back!

[karmeck]

Hi there, my tv is similar kv29cl11k and everything tend to yellow here too. Test whit ps1, ps2, game cube, sega mega drive...all in rgb.
If you go to "design" and change CDec to 1000 colours will be back to normal again....buuuuut.... it seems that you can't save this settings...as soon as you close service menu yello will strikes back!

Thank you

[vj88]

I fix this in the service menu whit green letters only! Push number "34" and colours change permanently.
Ps my trinitron has blurry corners...anyone knows if is really dangerous to open it and fix focus?

[RGB-Pi]

Edited

[nmalinoski]

Be sure to press mute then 0 to save Sony service menu changes.

Should I not see the changes before saving?
The geometry changes I made did not need mute 0 to be saved

With my KV-27FV310, turning the TV off and on again does not seem to readily clear unsaved changes in service mode; however, disconnecting the power (Which I do often for my retro stuff, including my CRT TV) does clear those changes. My recommendation would be to specifically save any changes you make that you want to keep permanently.

[Pikkon]

I have now tested again with an outer source, this time a dvd player with scart and usb. Red is fine. so it is not the tv.

So, it is like the developer told me something about the 1920 resolution.

Try and change the resolution to 1600,should be in the config.

[karmeck]

I have now tested again with an outer source, this time a dvd player with scart and usb. Red is fine. so it is not the tv.

So, it is like the developer told me something about the 1920 resolution.

Try and change the resolution to 1600,should be in the config.

It is my understanding the developer of rgb-pi has made progress regarding this issue and future version of the cable will incorporate a fix so this dose not happen.

I no longer have this TV.

[RGB-Pi]

Ok, finally I have managed to solve the problem by software, in a next update it will be solved.

Before


After