Video probs w/ SNES RGB (Vertical Bands, etc)

[eric90000]

I'm also getting ghosting and the vertical bars on my SNES mini w/ Voultars THS7374 bypass. This discovery is absolutely fantastic news Voultar, my sincerest thanks to you for doing this. I'll be ordering a new cap for C11 very soon. I'll replace it and confirm my findings also. I was so close to resorting to the pin 155 mod out of sheer frustration; I'm glad I didn't!

[ikari_01]

I noticed two analog-ish effects on the 1CHIPs with certain games that perform mid-screen effects such as video mode changes.
One is that the picture needs around 1 scanline to recover from a grey-ish tone.
The other is a sync glitch where one scanline gets slightly displaced horizontally.

I'll try and get pictures of these once I remember which games were causing them...
I wonder if these are related to the DAC and how changing the capacitor might affect them.

[AndehX]

I replaced C11 with a 470nf cap, but didn't notice any difference on my particular 1-CHIP-01. I never really had any ghosting in the first place though.

[FBX]

I replaced C11 with a 470nf cap, but didn't notice any difference on my particular 1-CHIP-01. I never really had any ghosting in the first place though.

That's actually a good thing though that you didn't see any difference. This means it's not detrimental to replace it before anything goes bad, and now it becomes a preventative measure. I got my 470nF caps in last night and will be testing one out in my 1CHIP-03. I'll post before and after pics, though they should look identical because my 1CHIP-03 doesn't have any ghosting issues (and actually looks fantastic as is).

[FBX]

Okay just did the cap swap. The original stock cap measured 51nF, and the new replacement measured 461nF. There was zero difference in PQ, but that's because my 1CHIP-03 already hits the upper limit of the Framemeister's scaler focus anyway. This just means as I predicted, it would be a preventative maintenance measure.

This 1CHIP-03 has the following mods:

750 Ohm resistors mod on the RGB lines.
Full csync restoration mod (kit that contains all the missing SMD components).
Digital Audio mod with Borti's TOSLINK board (not that this matters to the subject at hand).

So with all that, here's the screen sample with the stock 51nF C11 cap:

Spoiler

And here's the screen sample with the replacement 461nF C11 cap:

Spoiler

I almost wish I had a ghosting SNES 1CHIP to see the difference in person!


-FBX

[eric90000]

I'm also getting ghosting and the vertical bars on my SNES mini w/ Voultars THS7374 bypass. This discovery is absolutely fantastic news Voultar, my sincerest thanks to you for doing this. I'll be ordering a new cap for C11 very soon. I'll replace it and confirm my findings also. I was so close to resorting to the pin 155 mod out of sheer frustration; I'm glad I didn't!

This fix is 100% confirmed working from me in Ireland I just replaced C11 on my SNES mini that had reeeally bad ghosting....it's now gone . I don't have a capture setup to take before/after shots but I can assure you, before this fix the ghosting was awful through my OSSC Lx5 on a 55" TV. This is as close to perfection as I'm probably ever gonna get.

Voultar you absolute hero.

[falseelectronics]

I'm also getting ghosting and the vertical bars on my SNES mini w/ Voultars THS7374 bypass. This discovery is absolutely fantastic news Voultar, my sincerest thanks to you for doing this. I'll be ordering a new cap for C11 very soon. I'll replace it and confirm my findings also. I was so close to resorting to the pin 155 mod out of sheer frustration; I'm glad I didn't!

This fix is 100% confirmed working from me in Ireland I just replaced C11 on my SNES mini that had reeeally bad ghosting....it's now gone . I don't have a capture setup to take before/after shots but I can assure you, before this fix the ghosting was awful through my OSSC Lx5 on a 55" TV. This is as close to perfection as I'm probably ever gonna get.

Voultar you absolute hero.

Where did you get Voultar's board shipped to Ireland? I'm after one of the Duo boards

[falseelectronics]

I'm also getting ghosting and the vertical bars on my SNES mini w/ Voultars THS7374 bypass. This discovery is absolutely fantastic news Voultar, my sincerest thanks to you for doing this. I'll be ordering a new cap for C11 very soon. I'll replace it and confirm my findings also. I was so close to resorting to the pin 155 mod out of sheer frustration; I'm glad I didn't!

This fix is 100% confirmed working from me in Ireland I just replaced C11 on my SNES mini that had reeeally bad ghosting....it's now gone . I don't have a capture setup to take before/after shots but I can assure you, before this fix the ghosting was awful through my OSSC Lx5 on a 55" TV. This is as close to perfection as I'm probably ever gonna get.

Voultar you absolute hero.

Where did you get Voultar's board shipped to Ireland? I'm after one of the Duo boards

[eric90000]

Where did you get Voultar's board shipped to Ireland? I'm after one of the Duo boards

I have family in the US, so I ended up getting it shipped to their address, and they forwarded it on to me in Dublin...it was the only way I could get it!

[FBX]

Where did you get Voultar's board shipped to Ireland? I'm after one of the Duo boards

I have family in the US, so I ended up getting it shipped to their address, and they forwarded it on to me in Dublin...it was the only way I could get it!

Cool! Reminds me of the genealogy work I did on my surname of 'Morrow', where I traced it from son to father all the way back to Belfast in 1700. Turns out most of the lines from both of my parents either go back to Ireland or Scotland or England. My mother's lines go all the way back to the original Plymouth colony.

[eric90000]

Cool! Reminds me of the genealogy work I did on my surname of 'Morrow', where I traced it from son to father all the way back to Belfast in 1700. Turns out most of the lines from both of my parents either go back to Ireland or Scotland or England. My mother's lines go all the way back to the original Plymouth colony.

Oh wow! That's really interesting. I find all that stuff fascinating, I've always wanted to do a full family history. My surname is Hurley, which I'm fairly certain is completely Irish. I can't imagine Morrow is a very common name?

[Syntax]

Great, two Irish fellas stuck in deep banter, we'll never get a word in. Burn the thread now :p

[FBX]

My surname is Hurley, which I'm fairly certain is completely Irish. I can't imagine Morrow is a very common name?

It's a bit rare out here in the States. In fact most all of the Morrow lines out here have been traced via DNA, and the majority of them come from one guy that immigrated from Ireland (though my line came from a different guy from Ireland). There was a popular Biker show here called Sons of Anarchy where the leader had a surname of Morrow, and they eventually did an episode or two on going to Ireland to meet relatives.

[RGB0b]

I tested the cap fix on two 1CHIP's that were already 99% perfect. There didn't seem to be any difference in sharpness (but once again, they were already mint), but whatever little ghosting was there is now gone. I'll try and get videos up soon - You can't tell the difference from the pics, only videos.

I'll try and borrow a stock 1CHIP and try the fix with that.

[Ruprit]

Posting to confirm that Voultar’s recommendation has successfully removed the vertical banding and ghosting on my Super Nintendo Jr. Before Voultar found the source of the problem, I recapped the system and it made the banding and ghosting much more prominent. Glad to have everything fixed and I dare say the colors look even better than before the fix. Though that’s probably a placebo.

I’ll likely be performing the same mod on my 1chip consoles just as a standard like I do with replacing the voltage regulator.

Thanks again Voultar and to GigaBoots for bringing this issue to attention.

[FBX]

What we need are before and after pics. Would love to see the improvement in action!

[ilgello]

Voultar is the man! I have ordered the cap and will provide before and after pics, my Snes is a pal Supercic 1 chip-01.

Some ghosting is visible on light backgrounds, just got a OSSC too and that already seemed to ease the issue, but to be honest I didn't really have the time to test it properly.

[Voultar]

Posting to confirm that Voultar’s recommendation has successfully removed the vertical banding and ghosting on my Super Nintendo Jr. Before Voultar found the source of the problem, I recapped the system and it made the banding and ghosting much more prominent. Glad to have everything fixed and I dare say the colors look even better than before the fix. Though that’s probably a placebo.

I’ll likely be performing the same mod on my 1chip consoles just as a standard like I do with replacing the voltage regulator.

Thanks again Voultar and to GigaBoots for bringing this issue to attention.

Actually, that's quite reasonable to believe.

That feedback circuit is swinging the dac high, then low, then high, then a little lower until it stabilizes. This can certainly have an impact on those purdy colors.

Glad to hear!

[RGB0b]

Here's a link to videos with a basic description of each: https://mega.nz/#!55sUwT4Y!oSTBLJDHMM4b ... 0OePGm8pxM

The still shots don't show it, but the videos do (look to the right of Mario). Also, please remember that both of these consoles had almost ZERO ghosting, so the "before" shots aren't a great example. I'm on the lookout for a stock 1CHIP that has bad ghosting. Does anyone here have one they'd want to send me to give it a try?

[thebeautifulones]

Here's a link to videos with a basic description of each: https://mega.nz/#!55sUwT4Y!oSTBLJDHMM4b ... 0OePGm8pxM

The still shots don't show it, but the videos do (look to the right of Mario). Also, please remember that both of these consoles had almost ZERO ghosting, so the "before" shots aren't a great example. I'm on the lookout for a stock 1CHIP that has bad ghosting. Does anyone here have one they'd want to send me to give it a try?

Sorry, I don't anymore, but if you go to this part of SMW: https://youtu.be/htFJTiVH5Ao?t=621 Donut Plains 1, the first level after the first castle, the ghosting produced by the grey blocks is the clearest example I've ever seen. That level in general seems to make it really obvious, but in that spot it was always most apparent to me.

[FBX]

The still shots don't show it, but the videos do (look to the right of Mario).

Yep. I could definitely see the difference in the videos. Cool!

[Voultar]

Honestly, Super Mario World is a pretty crappy game for this. Mega Man X seems to be a really good benchmark. Storm Eagle is a good stage with the sky.

[unmaker]

I did some before and afters with Super Mario World (sorry Voultar). This is on my Mini with Voultar's board. The original capacitor at c11 measured at a measly 14nF!

before:

Spoiler

after:

Spoiler

before with colors inverted/tweaked:

Spoiler

after with colors inverted/tweaked:

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/8TnScaNWo0M

In my video you can see a hint of ghosting to the right of Mario when the colors are inverted. I don't think if matters since the colors are so distorted. I am very happy with this fix and am thankful for Lord Voultar's blessings.

[GigaBoots]

I should be getting my SNES back from Voultar very soon and I'll post lossless pics and 4K Videos of before's and afters.

[ilgello]

Got the cap, unfortunately that area of my Snes is covered by my Borti board and I won't desolder it for now, ghosting is not too noticeable anyway...

[bonzo.bits]

In case more confirmation was needed:

SNES Mini with Borti's board.

Old C11 cap measured at 45uf, new cap 470uf.

Smeggy vertical bars on left of screen completely gone.

No ghosting before or after cap replacement.

[GigaBoots]

Got my SNES back from Voultar. The MMX Pre/Post-fix images all have the same correction applied to them. All captured lossless 4:2:0, upscaled 4X by the OSSC. I later confirmed all of my findings with lossless 4:4:4 captures, I'm just not redoing all these screen caps when they look identical (bc 420 = 1/4 chroma res, OSSC 4x negates.)

Google Drive Lossless PNG's: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fjxC_ ... c5DsLEc5Jp



Pre-Fix

Spoiler

Post-Fix

Spoiler

Pre-Fix (jumping)

Spoiler

Post-Fix (jumping)

Spoiler

The following pictures are softened by Vegas zooming in; Sharper in reality.

Post-fix (Hyper Contrasted)

Spoiler

No Adjustments at all

Spoiler

Final Comparison:

Before/After Split

Spoiler

The Pure White Test:

Pure White (pre)

Spoiler

Pure White (Post)

Spoiler

Pure White (emulated)

Spoiler

Conclusions: All of the previous problems are effectively solved with ghosting almost completely unnoticeable (can see on super-high contrast content that's been adjusted) but the colors are different now. A blue tint has been introduced to the image. You can see this easily in the pictures of pure white, though it's evident normal gameplay.



Here's a Yoshi's Island clip to confirm ghosting is nearly completely invisible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1MQTFHRETQ


I'm troubled that a blue tint has been introduced and I'm not sure how to progress from here. :\

[FBX]

I'm troubled that a blue tint has been introduced and I'm not sure how to progress from here. :\

Is it possible to just now use resistors on the RGB lines to balance the RGB levels? Like say a resistor slightly stronger on the blue line?

[GigaBoots]

Is it possible to just now use resistors on the RGB lines to balance the RGB levels? Like say a resistor slightly stronger on the blue line?

Well, its White Balance is tinted blue which really means that Red is lower than both Green and Blue. I don't know if just resisting on Blue would fix it but then again I know nothing about analog/electric level signals. I'm an all digital man and I've never soldered a thing in my life.

[paulb_nl]

Thats odd because the captures by shartqueefa have no difference in colors. Have you checked the RGB gain and offsets are still at default on the OSSC?