shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:37 pm View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 616 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:22 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 08 Mar 2013
Posts: 250
Location: UK
evil_ash_xero wrote:
Retroarch has some SWEET CRT filters, from what I've seen. I don't know why Kev is sticking with HQ and X-Ray. Talented guy....but jeez...


CRT shaders (they are not filters) rely on a GPU and the high resolution of your HDTV to work well and look good, you are never getting anything like that out of this type of device.

Don't waste your time trying to get anything over to Kevtris or expecting any changes whatsoever, this was his response this morning to someone again pointing out the flaws with the 8:7 mode.

Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:54 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11438
Location: Germany
Quote:
Here's a pic of it on my 32 Samsung. I can't get this soft of a look on any other of my TVs.

some TVs have their neutral sharpness setting offset from zero, meaning you can actually blur your input by lowering the value from the neutral position. On most Sonys of the past 10 years neutral sharpness means a setting of about 25-30/100. I assume that at least some manufacturers handle it the same way.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:03 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 5460
Location: Where the fish lives, WV
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Here's a pic of it on my 32 Samsung. I can't get this soft of a look on any other of my TVs.

some TVs have their neutral sharpness setting offset from zero, meaning you can actually blur your input by lowering the value from the neutral position. On most Sonys of the past 10 years neutral sharpness means a setting of about 25-30/100. I assume that at least some manufacturers handle it the same way.


Ah...makes sense. Well, I'm a fan of this practice. :lol:
_________________
My Collection: http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/col ... Collection


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:07 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 5460
Location: Where the fish lives, WV
tomwhite2004 wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:
Retroarch has some SWEET CRT filters, from what I've seen. I don't know why Kev is sticking with HQ and X-Ray. Talented guy....but jeez...


CRT shaders (they are not filters) rely on a GPU and the high resolution of your HDTV to work well and look good, you are never getting anything like that out of this type of device.

Don't waste your time trying to get anything over to Kevtris or expecting any changes whatsoever, this was his response this morning to someone again pointing out the flaws with the 8:7 mode.

Image


Yeah, I've noticed this with him. And he seems to just be doing as told on this one too.

OK, shaders. Well, I guess then I would just like the interpolation slider, that used to be in the HDNES. That worked well enough.

Maybe someday someone will come up with some custom firmware. I'm not holding my breath. But hey... SD2SNES now has save states and you can play Yoshi's Island on it...so, some people come up with things.

That being said, I did get an e-mail back from Analogue saying they would mention it for consideration, and updates would be coming soon. Who knows?
_________________
My Collection: http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/col ... Collection


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:43 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 08 Mar 2013
Posts: 250
Location: UK
evil_ash_xero wrote:
Well, I guess then I would just like the interpolation slider, that used to be in the HDNES. That worked well enough.


You can enable or disable horizontal and vertical interpolation separately in the scaler section when you have the advanced mode ticked.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:50 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 5460
Location: Where the fish lives, WV
tomwhite2004 wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:
Well, I guess then I would just like the interpolation slider, that used to be in the HDNES. That worked well enough.


You can enable or disable horizontal and vertical interpolation separately in the scaler section when you have the advanced mode ticked.


It's not really the same. But I did try that out, and it does fuzz it up some. I'll experiment with that on the bigger TVs.
_________________
My Collection: http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/col ... Collection


Last edited by evil_ash_xero on Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:52 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11438
Location: Germany
Quote:
It's not really the same.

do you maybe know of any video that shows the feature on the NES?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:48 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 5460
Location: Where the fish lives, WV
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
It's not really the same.

do you maybe know of any video that shows the feature on the NES?


You know...I feel kinda fucking stupid now. lol... I did what the above poster said, and on the other TVs, it blurred it up. lol... All I had to do was adjust the scanlines.

WELL...

Yeah, but the one for the NES is just adjustable (before it was removed with the latest firmware). You just have way more control over how blurry or clear it is. I do prefer that. But that solved a lot of issues there.
On the TV in my room, I had the H disabled. Whereas on the other TVs, I need to disable both. (Still needs a slider though)

Hooray.

Now if Kev will just add the Interpolation back into the HDNES, and we can get rid of that shaky picture. I don't like having to choose between good colors and smooth scrolling.

But thanks guys. This forum's always quite useful.
_________________
My Collection: http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/col ... Collection


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:00 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2016
Posts: 48
Location: United Kingdom
Fudoh wrote:
@Larrs888: the FM and the Super Nt behave basically identically in 720p. SMW is not supposed to fill your screen top to bottom. If it does, when you probably have overscan enabled on the display.


FBX wrote:
Larrs888 wrote:
On the super NT when o use 3x 4:3 mode at 720p games that should fill the top and bottom of the screen have a black border around the whole screen. I don’t have a SNES classic mini but my nes classic fills the top and bottom ok.



The Super NES has 224 active vertical pixels. The NES has 240. So for SNES 224 * 3 = 672. For NES 240 * 3 = 720. That's why the NES fills your screen vertically in 720p, while the Super Nt does not. This is normal behavior for 3x scale.


Thanks guys, I should have remembered that :) and I feel a bit silly as I had overscan enabled as well but forgot all about it, as the setting was buried deep in my TVs menu. I used a different input on my TV for the Super NT and forgot about the overscan setting :oops:


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:36 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 2146
Location: DFW area, Texas
We had a rather lengthy discussion in discord about the bizarre behavior of the vertical scaling algorithm in the Super Nt, in addition to the visible window being tied to the algorithm, causing faulty math and output conditions.

For example:

If you max the vertical out to 5x (1200), the visible window only shows 1175 vertical res, resulting in a total clip of 9 pixels instead of just 8. I cross-referenced this on two different displays as well as my E1S capture card, and the result was exactly the same. Here's the lossless capture showing the net loss of an extra pixel row:

Image

Note how also in that image the vertical position had to be lowered to 40 in order to center in on the active 1175 lines.

It gets even worse for non-integer scaling. If you enable HV interpolation and attempt to scale to fit the screen vertically, the math dictates you should be able to set the res at 1410x1157. However, due to the faulty scaling algorithm, this ends up clipping a couple rows of pixels. The closest you can get is 1406x1153, and you have to set the vertical position to 44. Below is the lossless capture for proof of that as well:

Image

So there are some rather strange bugs with the scaling function in the Super Nt. Nothing deal-breaking, but it is something that shouldn't be happening. For those that like fullscreen or clipped overscan 5x, you're not able to get the best experience in those modes.
_________________
Web Site: http://www.firebrandx.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/FBXGargoyle?lang=en


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:10 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11438
Location: Germany
Quote:
Nothing deal-breaking, but it is something that shouldn't be happening

It's nothing deal breaking and it can happen. The bad thing here is, that it didn't get fixed yet. And compared to the time and effort Kevtris put into fixing isolated bugs in obscure game titles and considering how much of an "enthusiast" machine this is, fixing the user experience (which includes these scaling bugs) should be a top priority.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:20 pm 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 282
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Nothing deal-breaking, but it is something that shouldn't be happening

It's nothing deal breaking and it can happen. The bad thing here is, that it didn't get fixed yet. And compared to the time and effort Kevtris put into fixing isolated bugs in obscure game titles and considering how much of an "enthusiast" machine this is, fixing the user experience (which includes these scaling bugs) should be a top priority.


I'm sure now that it has been identified he will fix it when time allows. That might not be for a little while though because he's evidently working on his next super secret project right now. (My money is on PS1 but Genesis and Neo Geo have also been mentioned)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:12 am 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 5460
Location: Where the fish lives, WV
Oh, I wouldn't get too excited about a fix.
_________________
My Collection: http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/col ... Collection


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:52 am 



Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 401
I’m still super excited for the additional cores, bug fixes, and controller adapters coming out for the NT Mini! Oh wait... :mrgreen:


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:05 am 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 5460
Location: Where the fish lives, WV
I'm excited about normal scalers like bicubic and bilinear, rather than HQ and SuperEagle, and whatever the heck is in there. Oh wait. :|

I've actually tried passing that along to him, thru two different avenues.

With the color problem (which is HUGE, and in my opinion makes that product faulty) in Hi Def NES, and him not really wanting to listen to customer feedback, I'm probably not going to buy anything else with his name attached to it. Which is a real shame, as he's one of the only people who are doing this.
I guess I'll just have to stick with the CRTs. Good thing I have 5 functioning ones, and two that need fixing.
_________________
My Collection: http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/col ... Collection


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:03 am 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 5460
Location: Where the fish lives, WV
So, how you guys feeling about Super Turrican - Director's Cut?

I've never played the series, and I know that 2 on the Amiga is basically all anyone is going to say if you're asking about it...
But let us stay in SNES land. :lol:

How do you like it? For those who've played the original.
I've never played Super Turrican. I feel like I'm playing GunLord (well, it was a "tribute"..so). Has some sweet music.

Seems like a fun run n gun. But I did like GunLord, as well. I still don't like that weird thing about these games where you shoot a platform and it's like a pinata of power ups. I've always found that to be really odd.
_________________
My Collection: http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/col ... Collection


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 616 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Syntax and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group