Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)

[paulb_nl]

Higan applies a uniform repeating pattern of 8, 8, 8, 9 to evenly distribute the colors in the full 0 - 255 range. Meanwhile the Super Nt has a weird stretch in the blacks and a pinch in the whites. Furthermore, the Super Nt's range is condensed to 0 - 245, which explains the washed out appearance.

I've sent a link to the image to Kevtris in the hopes this might trigger an idea on how to better convert the colors to 8-bit format like Higan does.

Good stuff. You should do the same for the red, green and blue colors seperately as well and make clear to Kevtris that red is not pure red for example.

maybe we have a different understanding of "washed out". You usually get a washed out image when the black levels are raised. By ending the range at 245/255 you get slightly muted whites, but that's about it. The washed out image effect is more likely caused by the increased gamma in the lower brightness areas (which you've shown above).

In this case its primarily because in the colorbar capture by FBX full red is 213,16,0, full green is 24,236,0 and full blue is 2,0,253 and is clipped at the last 4 bars. So with such a muted red its going to look washed out.

[rule_z]

My Super NT has finally arrived, but it's not working properly
I've tried three different games but none worked (all three were Super Famicom carts) and also is a lot hard to pull them off from the console, with the first one I've almost thought it was stuck inside.
The console is working, I've already updated it and it plays the Super Turrican games perfectly, but I can't use my cart.
Anyone with similar issue?
I've already wrote to the Analogue customer service, they reply me twice to clean my carts...

[jdawg131]

My Super NT has finally arrived, but it's not working properly
I've tried three different games but none worked (all three were Super Famicom carts) and also is a lot hard to pull them off from the console, with the first one I've almost thought it was stuck inside.
The console is working, I've already updated it and it plays the Super Turrican games perfectly, but I can't use my cart.
Anyone with similar issue?
I've already wrote to the Analogue customer service, they reply me twice to clean my carts...

Have you cleaned the carts? You need to open them up and use a white eraser and rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol on the contacts. These old carts can have a lot of "black gunk" on the contacts even when the cart itself looks mint.

[GigaBoots]

I've already wrote to the Analogue customer service, they reply me twice to clean my carts...

That sounds like something customer service would say. I would attempt to run more than 3 games. Also, are you in Europe or the US?

Personally, I threw in my SD2SNES and it worked fine. In fact, the Super NT fixes a problem that Chrono Trigger has on real flash carts playing on real hardware so that's neat. That is, if Kevtris can fix the color thing. I think it's nuts that plugging in controllers shutdowns (crashes?) the system. That's totally bonkers. How in the world do you come to the conclusion that that's fine for final hardware. I guess the NT Mini did it too, but I only found that out on a recent livestream.

A pleasant surprise is how solid it feels. In a way, because of it's density, I'd argue it feels more solid than the NT Mini. I really wish they'd add an NES core to this system because those high quality scaler features are clutch as hell.

[rule_z]

My Super NT has finally arrived, but it's not working properly
I've tried three different games but none worked (all three were Super Famicom carts) and also is a lot hard to pull them off from the console, with the first one I've almost thought it was stuck inside.
The console is working, I've already updated it and it plays the Super Turrican games perfectly, but I can't use my cart.
Anyone with similar issue?
I've already wrote to the Analogue customer service, they reply me twice to clean my carts...

Have you cleaned the carts? You need to open them up and use a white eraser and rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol on the contacts. These old carts can have a lot of "black gunk" on the contacts even when the cart itself looks mint.

Those three carts plays flawlessy on my Super Famicom console, so I'm pretty sure they are "clean", however I will try to do it.
Even though, there's still the issue with the cart stuck inside the console every time, I don't think it is a normale behaviour.

I've already wrote to the Analogue customer service, they reply me twice to clean my carts...

That sounds like something customer service would say.

I would attempt to run more than 3 games. Also, are you in Europe or the US?

Europe, Italy. I've tried only three games because I was afraid to ruin the cart, it's very hard to pull them out from the console.

[GigaBoots]

I can understand your reticence..

[paulb_nl]

Those three carts plays flawlessy on my Super Famicom console, so I'm pretty sure they are "clean", however I will try to do it.
Even though, there's still the issue with the cart stuck inside the console every time, I don't think it is a normale behaviour.

Look at the pins inside the cartridge slot on the Super NT. Maybe there are some bent pins.

[jdawg131]

I only received my Super NT yesterday, but it’s played the two carts (FFII SNES and Super Fire Pro Wrestling X SFC) that I’ve tried so far. I heard that the NT and NT Mini could be finicky with NES and Famicom carts. The connectors only read (really) clean carts.

[evil_ash_xero]

Could someone inform Kevin that bilinear filtering is an option in almost every emulator?

interpolation is enabled by default and it's just that. If you lower the output resolution you get what you want. It's what I mentioned above: compared to other setups like the Framemeister or the OSSC, the Nt's output is softer due to the interpolation. 480p from the Nt along with enabled interpolation is likely the look you want.

Ah... I want this, but I wanna wait until I can get a gray one.

So, no one has any idea when they may have the gray ones back in stock? I see their NES models are still out of stock. Are they kind of "limited edition" kind of people, or do they keep it going for a while?

[Fudoh]

So, no one has any idea when they may have the gray ones back in stock? I see their NES models are still out of stock. Are they kind of "limited edition" kind of people, or do they keep it going for a while?

The second production run went online (for preorders) last week. You can probably expect the next chance for ordering a grey one in a few months from now. Sign up for their newsletter. I got a black one from the first batch and ordered a grey (SF-style) one from the second batch.

[evil_ash_xero]

So, no one has any idea when they may have the gray ones back in stock? I see their NES models are still out of stock. Are they kind of "limited edition" kind of people, or do they keep it going for a while?

The second production run went online (for preorders) last week. You can probably expect the next chance for ordering a grey one in a few months from now. Sign up for their newsletter. I got a black one from the first batch and ordered a grey (SF-style) one from the second batch.

Once again, thanks.

[bobrocks95]

I think it's nuts that plugging in controllers shutdowns (crashes?) the system. That's totally bonkers. How in the world do you come to the conclusion that that's fine for final hardware. I guess the NT Mini did it too, but I only found that out on a recent livestream.

Huh, so I guess if someone wants to hop in with you on Secret of Mana you have to go save and turn off the system first... Pretty ridiculous

[Fudoh]

And here it is: courtesy of Smokemonster and Kevtris (of course):

https://github.com/SmokeMonsterPacks/Super-NT-Jailbreak

[brentsg]

And here it is: courtesy of Smokemonster and Kevtris (of course):

https://github.com/SmokeMonsterPacks/Super-NT-Jailbreak

Was just about to post this.. good stuff.

[Seraphic]

And here it is: courtesy of Smokemonster and Kevtris (of course):

https://github.com/SmokeMonsterPacks/Super-NT-Jailbreak

Nice!! My Super NT just arrived today too.
So update it to 4.1 then install the Jailbreak firmware?

Do we even need a SD2SNES anymore? Does this support the SNES enhancement chips and MSU1?

[Wolf_]

And here it is: courtesy of Smokemonster and Kevtris (of course):

https://github.com/SmokeMonsterPacks/Super-NT-Jailbreak

Nice!! My Super NT just arrived today too.
So update it to 4.1 then install the Jailbreak firmware?

Do we even need a SD2SNES anymore? Does this support the SNES enhancement chips and MSU1?

The jb is on the most recent firmware. Also the only thing that matters is whatever it is currently updated to lol.

[Seraphic]

And here it is: courtesy of Smokemonster and Kevtris (of course):

https://github.com/SmokeMonsterPacks/Super-NT-Jailbreak

Nice!! My Super NT just arrived today too.
So update it to 4.1 then install the Jailbreak firmware?

Do we even need a SD2SNES anymore? Does this support the SNES enhancement chips and MSU1?

The jb is on the most recent firmware. Also the only thing that matters is whatever it is currently updated to lol.

Ah, alright. Understood. Does the jb support games that use SNES enhancement chips and MSU1 audio?

[Fudoh]

SNES enhancement chips

none yet.

[Wolf_]

Just the regular stuff right now. I'm not sure if anything else is coming or not but it is only the first week after all so I'm cautiously optimistic we may see it expanded in the future.

[Seraphic]

I was just about to spend $200 on a SD2SNES too.
Guess I will hold off on ordering one and see what happens.
Hopefully they can add support most the hardware chips and MSU1 audio.

[Wolf_]

I doubt that will get added in the next week or two. Kevtris will probably be spending most of his time working on minor updates to the snes side of things and then maybe porting the nt mini cores (as they won't take as much time) before he finishes off the intellivision core. Then we might see some love for enhancement chips.

Of course if anything else is coming or not is totally unconfirmed.

[Seraphic]

I doubt that will get added in the next week or two. Kevtris will probably be spending most of his time working on minor updates to the snes side of things and then maybe porting the nt mini cores (as they won't take as much time) before he finishes off the intellivision core. Then we might see some love for enhancement chips.

Of course if anything else is coming or not is totally unconfirmed.

All we can do is hope for the best. Also, I saw a few posts a page or two back say the RGB pallet/colorspace is a bit off on the Super NT. Did Kevtris say that is something he can work on?

[Wolf_]

He hasn't made any comment on it yet but knowing him once someone can tell him what the problem is and what would be a better option he'll implement some fix for it pretty quickly.

[FBX]

Analogue has now officially stated on Twitter that the color issue is being worked on. I personally believe it's just a gamma setting Kevtris used that is causing all the problems. In the image I posted:



Another user was able to map the errors to almost exactly match gamma correction being applied:



The "Super Nt Calculated" is a line graph based on systemic gamma correction being applied to the Higan line. It pretty much proves there's a bias going on in the Super Nt's color system.

[thirdkind]

Awesome, thanks for investigating.

Was there any confirmation whether the correct display setting is limited or full RGB once this fix is applied? I'm using limited and see no clipped shadow detail.

[FBX]

Awesome, thanks for investigating.

Was there any confirmation whether the correct display setting is limited or full RGB once this fix is applied? I'm using limited and see no clipped shadow detail.

Definitely full RGB range once it is fixed, unless for some reason the fix puts the Super Nt into limited mode, but we'll be able to tell if that's the case quickly.

[rule_z]

Those three carts plays flawlessy on my Super Famicom console, so I'm pretty sure they are "clean", however I will try to do it.
Even though, there's still the issue with the cart stuck inside the console every time, I don't think it is a normale behaviour.

Look at the pins inside the cartridge slot on the Super NT. Maybe there are some bent pins.

Everything seems ok inside.
I've also tried more games with the same results, none worked.
I've wrote again to the Analogue Support, hope they will replace my console.

[jayde6]

Definitely full RGB range once it is fixed, unless for some reason the fix puts the Super Nt into limited mode, but we'll be able to tell if that's the case quickly.

Same boat as thirdkind here, my setup doesn't lend itself easily to incorporating full range devices, if it's full range after it's fixed would using something like gamma boost put it back into limited range territory you think?

I was quite pleased to see black levels not being crushed when I hooked up the Super Nt, it will suck if the fix winds up breaking/complicating it for others.

[thirdkind]

Awesome, thanks for investigating.

Was there any confirmation whether the correct display setting is limited or full RGB once this fix is applied? I'm using limited and see no clipped shadow detail.

Definitely full RGB range once it is fixed, unless for some reason the fix puts the Super Nt into limited mode, but we'll be able to tell if that's the case quickly.

This would be unusual for a consumer device that isn't a PC. Can anyone here name a device that isn't a PC that is usually used on a TV and uses RGB full?

Pretty much every display handles RGB limited properly, and it's the one that's closest to an SNES on a CRT. Forcing RGB full without providing a switch in the UI is going to cause problems.

What colorspace does the Nt Mini use?

[paulb_nl]

Same boat as thirdkind here, my setup doesn't lend itself easily to incorporating full range devices, if it's full range after it's fixed would using something like gamma boost put it back into limited range territory you think?

I was quite pleased to see black levels not being crushed when I hooked up the Super Nt, it will suck if the fix winds up breaking/complicating it for others.

Thats very strange because all devices should detect Full/Limited range automatically (unless you use an LG display).

The Super NT currently already outputs Full Range because it outputs blacks lower than 16 so if you don't see any crushed blacks now then you also wont when the colors are fixed.

This would be unusual for a consumer device that isn't a PC. Can anyone here name a device that isn't a PC that is usually used on a TV and uses RGB full?

Pretty much every display handles RGB limited properly, and it's the one that's closest to an SNES on a CRT. Forcing RGB full without providing a switch in the UI is going to cause problems.

What colorspace does the Nt Mini use?

Nt Mini is reported as full Range. Playstation 3 and 4 can also output Full Range. OSSC also outputs Full Range only.