Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

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citrus3000psi
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by citrus3000psi »

FBX wrote:Yeah what I'm looking for is a way to mod my PS2 such that I can have RGBS with csync and component video still works (I don't care about composite, but I still want component). So would I need to do a toggle switch mod then? My PS2 is a 30001.
On a 3000x and lower, you just need to ground a pad to disable SOG. No need for a switch or anything.
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FBX
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by FBX »

citrus3000psi wrote:
FBX wrote:Yeah what I'm looking for is a way to mod my PS2 such that I can have RGBS with csync and component video still works (I don't care about composite, but I still want component). So would I need to do a toggle switch mod then? My PS2 is a 30001.
On a 3000x and lower, you just need to ground a pad to disable SOG. No need for a switch or anything.
And component video will still work?
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citrus3000psi
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by citrus3000psi »

FBX wrote:
citrus3000psi wrote:
FBX wrote:Yeah what I'm looking for is a way to mod my PS2 such that I can have RGBS with csync and component video still works (I don't care about composite, but I still want component). So would I need to do a toggle switch mod then? My PS2 is a 30001.
On a 3000x and lower, you just need to ground a pad to disable SOG. No need for a switch or anything.
And component video will still work?
Yep it should
RGB0b
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by RGB0b »

FBX wrote:
citrus3000psi wrote:
FBX wrote:Yeah what I'm looking for is a way to mod my PS2 such that I can have RGBS with csync and component video still works (I don't care about composite, but I still want component). So would I need to do a toggle switch mod then? My PS2 is a 30001.
On a 3000x and lower, you just need to ground a pad to disable SOG. No need for a switch or anything.
And component video will still work?
To clarify: Component video (YCbCr) will still work on all versions of the PS2, even after this mod.

Composite video (cvbs) will still work on the 30001-series PS2's after doing this mod, but not on the rest that I've tried (unless you add a switch).
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FBX
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by FBX »

retrorgb wrote: To clarify: Component video (YCbCr) will still work on all versions of the PS2, even after this mod.

Composite video (cvbs) will still work on the 30001-series PS2's after doing this mod, but not on the rest that I've tried (unless you add a switch).
Badass! Okay Bob, do me up a video on this mod for the 30001 PS2 so I can be lazy and just watch it :-P
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TheShadowRunner
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by TheShadowRunner »

retrorgb wrote:To clarify: Component video (YCbCr) will still work on all versions of the PS2, even after this mod.
Are you sure about that?
citrus3000psi says on the mod page "This modification is for people who only want RGBS output on their PS2. Other video modes will not function properly. "
It really sucks that the mod is more complex on 50000, a physical/manual switch is a dealbreaker for me.
What's silly is my DMS4 SE chip disables green for RGB / DVD movies. If only it could do the same (by software) for games @ 480p!
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Syntax
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by Syntax »

TheShadowRunner wrote: What's silly is my DMS4 SE chip disables green for RGB / DVD movies. If only it could do the same (by software) for games @ 480p!
I'm pretty sure if you use your chip to force VGA then you get RGBS for 480p
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citrus3000psi
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by citrus3000psi »

retrorgb wrote: To clarify: Component video (YCbCr) will still work on all versions of the PS2, even after this mod.
It does still work? I "assumed" the Luma/Y didn't work without CSYNC going through DAC. You have modded more of these then me, so I'm not doubting, just surpised. I wonder if builds the Luma/Y from the H/V sync.

TheShadowRunner wrote: citrus3000psi says on the mod page "This modification is for people who only want RGBS output on their PS2. Other video modes will not function properly. "
It really sucks that the mod is more complex on 50000, a physical/manual switch is a dealbreaker for me.
What's silly is my DMS4 SE chip disables green for RGB / DVD movies. If only it could do the same (by software) for games @ 480p!
That sentence was more of a "here's how to get get RGBS @ 480p; don't rely on other video modes to work".
When I first started working on this mod I was going to look at injecting my own i2c data. But this hardware way was incredibly easier to do.
Syntax wrote:
TheShadowRunner wrote:I'm pretty sure if you use your chip to force VGA then you get RGBS for 480p
I've forced VGA mod with a matrix mod chip. It outputs an 960i resolution and looks like shit. Not sure if there is a better way ?
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Gillbert
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by Gillbert »

So far I modded 4 different models of PS2, all of them don't have component video working after disabling CSYNC signal that goes to the DAC. Actually, the video information are present but without sync signal on luma (I checked it with a scope).

It's pretty easy to add a switch though.
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by RGB0b »

I'll double check component again when I get a chance. When I first tested after doing the mod it didn't work...but it turns out my cables were bad - Those cables wouldn't work on ANY PS2, including stock & unmodded (the red cable stopped working).

I'll borrow a set of known working cables as soon as I can and report back.
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TheShadowRunner
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by TheShadowRunner »

Syntax wrote:I'm pretty sure if you use your chip to force VGA then you get RGBS for 480p
Sadly my chip (DMS4 SE Pro) doesn't have any specific settings when it comes to disabling SoG for DVD movies, let alone any other related setting.
citrus3000psi wrote:That sentence was more of a "here's how to get get RGBS @ 480p; don't rely on other video modes to work".
When I first started working on this mod I was going to look at injecting my own i2c data. But this hardware way was incredibly easier to do.
The i2c method would be so much more elegant indeed ^^;
I wonder if it's possible to control the RGBS/480p behavior by hacking/patching HDDOSD 2.0.. (or if they're completely unrelated 8) )
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Gillbert
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by Gillbert »

citrus3000psi wrote: When I first started working on this mod I was going to look at injecting my own i2c data.
Interesting... 8)
Do you know which would be the possibilities of using those custom I2C commands? It would be possible to change resolutions for example?
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citrus3000psi
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by citrus3000psi »

Gillbert wrote:
citrus3000psi wrote: When I first started working on this mod I was going to look at injecting my own i2c data.
Interesting... 8)
Do you know which would be the possibilities of using those custom I2C commands? It would be possible to change resolutions for example?

They wouldn’t really be custom commands. There is no datasheet for the DAC, so I’d have to intercept the already incoming commands. It may seem elegant, but it is a lot more complicated than a simple switch/wire bypass.
killermike83
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by killermike83 »

I have a sync on luma cable with 1000uf caps. Would I need to change anything with my cable?
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FBX
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by FBX »

killermike83 wrote:I have a sync on luma cable with 1000uf caps. Would I need to change anything with my cable?
The caps for the RGB lines aren't needed at all for PS2. Those you have in there are to make it sort of 'universal' with PS1 consoles, but I'm of the opinion that PS1 and PS2 consoles should have their own separate cables. The real question though is whether or not Luma will still work after the mod is done. If Luma will no longer work, then your cables won't work as is either.
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by RGB0b »

killermike83 wrote:I have a sync on luma cable with 1000uf caps. Would I need to change anything with my cable?
Nope, it'll still work fine.
FBX wrote:The real question though is whether or not Luma will still work after the mod is done. If Luma will no longer work, then your cables won't work as is either.
Not true. The whole point of this mod is that luma is replaced with csync...so yes, the cable will still work perfectly with that console.
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by FBX »

retrorgb wrote:
FBX wrote:The real question though is whether or not Luma will still work after the mod is done. If Luma will no longer work, then your cables won't work as is either.
Not true. The whole point of this mod is that luma is replaced with csync...so yes, the cable will still work perfectly with that console.
Oh okay. I though the mod completely shut off the Luma line, but I forget it would simply replace the Luma signal. Chalk it up to another brain fart. :-P
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Syntax
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by Syntax »

citrus3000psi wrote:If you grab rgb right after the first DAC on the 3000x then you don’t need to worry about disabling SOG. Your diagram looks right. Let me know how it goes
Does the RGB signal here require a buffer?
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citrus3000psi
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by citrus3000psi »

Syntax wrote:
citrus3000psi wrote:If you grab rgb right after the first DAC on the 3000x then you don’t need to worry about disabling SOG. Your diagram looks right. Let me know how it goes
Does the RGB signal here require a buffer?
This is going from memory, but it would just need caps on the line.
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Syntax
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by Syntax »

Ive spent the weekend having a play with this mod and a 50002 PS2.

First thing to note R299 is actually 47R not 470R on this model so you can not reuse it to attenuate csync.

I found that you can tap csync and replace luma with it (who ever used an S-video cable on a PS2 anyways?) and still retain all other video modes if you don't want to remove sync on green simply by leaving R299 inplace.

If you really wanted to you can remove R299 and put a switch there to turn SOG on or off. (Put R299 on the switch line)

If you do put a switch there be aware you have to keep the wires short and far away from the AC power adapter or it will pick up interference like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWzyv2APdh8
It still shows in RGB for certain resolutions, shielding the area with copper tape pretty much cleared it up.

After much thought i have decided that if i want to use my PS2 with the OSSC then ill use component cables.
Between RGsB and YPbPr modes i can get every resolution available on OPL and the picture is crisper than RGB.

I didnt like the way csync shifted the image right either, im guessing this is because it skips a processing step?

Ive removed the mod from my 50002 for now but will do it for a 30002 as it can retain all video outputs, have csync on the luma channel and the SOG can easily go to a switch without worrying about it picking up interference and degrading the picture quality.


What id really like to do to the 30002 is give it a VGA plug with HV but im only just starting to read up on the inverters needed.
I was intending to follow the same method used for dreamcast, else ill use csync and an inverter and lm1881n.
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Syntax
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by Syntax »

I've been having a toy around with getting RGBHV working with a crt computer monitor and a 30002 PS2.

I've tried taking HV and C sync from before and after the last DAC and the results were the same. (IC206, CP201)
I'm grabbing RGB from the AV multiout as this model can disable SOG easily.

So I tried HV directly to the monitor with 150R inline resistors, its results in an unstable picture with buzzy horizontal interference. HV sync is around 2.4v

I then tried HV to a 5v buffer 74HCT244 which made HV sync 4.3v and 4.5v respectively. The picture has 0 interference but has a slight shake to it, as though its not locking vertical sync properly.
(https://www.gamesx.com/grafx/dricas.gif)

I tried csync directly to the H of the vga which results in a shifted picture with a slight shake, and then tried csync buffered via a LM1881 which was the same shifted image with shake.

I tested it on 2 different CRT monitors, both of which show a solid shake free picture when using my Dreamcast. The dreamcast is being ran without a buffer for now and outputs around 3.5v for sync but still locks fine.

Any ideas on how to get a solid picture would be greatly appreciated, from what i can find searching the net it would seem all others that have tried this have the same issue with CRT.
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Syntax
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by Syntax »

I was getting tired of looking at an open PS2 and had another attempt at buffering HV sync. This time around results were perfect! :D

I used another 74HCT244 but this time around I grounded the unused inputs as id left them floating on my other attempts.

I also fit the diodes to the vga port, where last time I had them on the 74HCT244 pretty much tied to the 4.7k resistors.
The buffer itself sits in shrink tube near a heatsink, I've bent the AC input up and away from the video lines but for some reason this time around even when put close to the lines there no interference..


Nothing else was different, I even used the same length of vga cable for the mod, but I figured I should write something here as all my searching only found others with the same sync wobble never a clean crt vga image.

I hate it that I used the side for the vga plug but there is really no space in the back of the ps2 to mount anything.

So just to recap,
PS2 Model 30000R
SOG Disabled (The jumper is on the bottom board, just look for the DACs SOG or SOG ENG pin and follow it to an unused jumper to ground on the bottom of the board)
HV Sync grabbed from the last DACs test points https://imgur.com/K7H8pQp https://imgur.com/mfOkGkT
RGB grabbed from the AV port so no capacitors needed.

Id use csync but it never centres correctly for any of my screens, RGBHV all the way for me now :D
The image is super clean, no more noisy blacks.

Some random pics of the install.
https://imgur.com/a/Tq69F

I doubt there's enough interest but a small pcb with a 74HCT244(to buffer the HVC Sync from the GS) and a 7374 (to amp the RGB direct from the GS)would allow any ps2 to install a VGA out without having to touch any of the other outputs or SOG ect.

As a bonus this bypassed RGBS will probably be way cleaner than stock RGBS, but just remember it will try to feed your 15k devices 31k and vice versa as you bypass the chip that disables sync.
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Link83
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by Link83 »

Just looking into this and have a few questions...
-Why is the CSYNC signal being taken directly from the GS graphics chip, rather than from the video encoders unused CSYNC output pin? (Pin 3 on the earlier CXA3525R, and Pin 20 on the later CXM4000R/CXM4015R)
-Has anyone actually measured the video encoders CSYNC output level? I only ask as i'm hoping to attenuate it for 75ohm use.

The only reason I can think of for using the CSYNC output directly from the GS is because the signal is taken before Macrovision can be added (Although AFAIK on the PS2 Macrovision is only enabled for DVD movie playback) If that is indeed the case has anyone looked into removing the Macrovision signal before it enters the video encoder? From looking at the schematics for PS2's which have the CXA3525R encoder there is a "CSYNC2_IN" signal on pin 13, which I assume is where the Macrovision signal is being added?

I'm also curious if anyone has tinkered with the CXA3525R's "TRISEL" pin 29? On most PS2 models there is actually an unused jumper to ground on the board specifically for this pin. However since we dont have a datasheet available for the CXA3525R its left me curious as to what this actually does :?

Any input would be much appreciated :)
Last edited by Link83 on Wed May 23, 2018 6:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Syntax
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by Syntax »

CSYNC is taken directly from the GS to stop SOG.
If you let it get to the encoder your green channel will have sync on it UNLESS its a 3000X or lower which you can just disable SOG with a jumper wire, then its a good idea to grab it from the marked pads.

Connecting directly to the GS without a buffer or some kind of protection is not a good idea, especially if you have a bad ground in your house.

The stock sync voltage is just under TTL spec I believe as i could not get a stable picture with it over VGA.

Re Macrovision: Read this

https://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av: ... 2_rgb_sync
Arch91
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by Arch91 »

Hello.
I have PS2 77008a gh-052-42 and in search for a way of connecting it to the TV's VGA for a long, long time.
I am acquiring RGB from those spots:
Image
- with them I could test lot of YPbPr/RGB output, but neither of them can output to TV's VGA.

Using GS Mode Selector it is possible to get up to 1080p HDTV (output to TV's component and SCART) and a sizes of VGA mode (output to PC display)

A scheme of a soldered SCART(RGB) ((true RGB, working after switching YPbPr to RGB in PS2 browser)):
Spoiler
Image
Image
- yeah, SCART needs composite to be inputted in it together with inputted RGB. And +5V, of course - I am acquiring 5V from TV's USB port.

Soldered a scheme with a Sync Splitter LM1881N
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image
Image
- but I do not know whenever it provides Hsync and Vsync either from green wire or from composite. And I have no such monitor without SoG support to test this soldered board for sure. Also I tried without 74hc (straight from LM1881N) to pick up Hs/Vs - no result.

Also I have GBS-8200. I suppose that when I got Hsync and Vsync from PS2, they need to be transformed through GBS-8200 device. Maybe my suppose is wrong.
However, I connected my soldered scheme with a Sync Splitter to GBS-8200 through VGA, turned on VGA mode using GSM - GBS-8200 says "No signal" in any mode (YPbPr/RGBs/RGBHV)

These images about connecting RGB and composite to GBS-8200's RGBs and outputting to TV's VGA:
Spoiler
Image
Image
- as you can see, there is a line at the bottom of the screen that obviously should not be there. And the screen is shaking a little. So, by connecting PS2's RGB and composite to GBS-8200's RGBs input - do not achieves my goal because the image is not perfect. So, I assume maybe it needs both horizontal and vertical syncronizations.

I never have a good camera, but these are a photos of my PS2 board:
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

I am asking you to help me in my goal. I think I need to get RGBHV output from PS2. Can you, please, explain me how to achieve it? Maybe you can mark a Hs/Vs sodering dots on my photos? Maybe you see my mistake in a soldered scheme with a Sync Splitter?
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erik343
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by erik343 »

Hey, I visited Dan's website: http://www.dansprojects.com/ps2sync.html
I am going to CSYNC/RGBs mod my Playstation 2 in the future. I was just wondering what the red numbers next to the red arrows are for? I mean the 1.5, the 3.5, and the two 5 red numbers on the diagrams? Thanks!
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Kez
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by Kez »

The diagrams are originally from PS2 service manuals, and the red arrows indicate the voltage at those locations. They were not added by Dan and can be ignored for the purposes of the mod.
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Syntax
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by Syntax »

Has anyone had any issues switching off SOG on Japanese 3000x models?

I have one here that wont remove sync from green properly and results in NO SIGNAL from all LCDs here unless I remove the green channel (Normally it would just give a greenish screen I thought).
OSSC reports green as having 31k sync (1000+hz) for a split second when I press pause on Alien Hominid 480p.
RGB to component convertors do not work on this PS2 where they work on my other SOG modded ones (unless green is removed).

I replaced the last encoder with one from a known working unit and same results. Grounding SONGEN just doesn't work properly, like something else is interrupting/trying to force SOG.
Removing the SONGEN ground wire results in perfect RGsB in 480p mode.

I tried removing the power from the modbo 4.0 installed, causes the PS2 to not boot for the first few tries so im guessing it needs to be removed completely to check if its that.

Any ideas?
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NewSchoolBoxer
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by NewSchoolBoxer »

What's the driving force to replace SOG with CSYNC on PS2? More that we hate Sony forcing a weird form of RGB on us than anything else?

I have one LCD that doesn't take SOG but the other two do, as does my Plasma and in theory my RGB capture card. If I had planned my cable journey out in advance, it's really nice how I can use the PS2 YPbPr cable for RGsB without even unplugging anything. Earlier comment that console light gun games don't run better with CSYNC and I can't tell a difference between feeding light gun composite video or luma. That's interesting how arcade light gun needs CSYNC but then we're talking about modding PS2.

If SOG can interfere with the greens compared to sync on its own line then I'd be interested in seeing comparison pics.
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Verdantree
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Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2

Post by Verdantree »

Sorry to bump an old thread - Has anyone had any success with this mod on a 7900x model PS2 Slim? I assume the method is the same as the 7000x but I've been utterly unable to find the service manual for anything past the 7000x model and have been unable to determine the correct solder points to connect.

I plan on running my PS2 through an Extron into a Tink 5x and an RGB Modded CRT and would like c-sync for 480p into the Tink and to retain Sync on Luma for when I use the CRT. Am I correct in assuming that the 7000x+ mod would be togglable with a 2-way switch as no parts (appear to) need removing?

Cheers
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