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 Post subject: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:45 pm 


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Got this all finished and documented for all models. Pure CSYNC (TTL or Attenuated) along with removing sync on green. When you remove sync on green, other video modes may fail to work. Not sure if the guncon games will still work; when CSYNC is removed from the DAC, composite video output is black and white.

I don't have a guncon to test or that fancy cable from retrogamingcables. If anybody tries it let me know.

This is for people who want RGBS only

Infoz here:

http://www.dansprojects.com/ps2sync.html

Here is a video of it switching modes on Prince of Persia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8A91z6_7-g


Last edited by citrus3000psi on Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:57 pm 


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Cool. So what are the benefits of doing this over using a sync stripper on Luma or Composite Video to get CSYNC (other than preventing the horizontal shift of 5 pixels iirc)?


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:10 pm 


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ChuChu Flamingo wrote:
Cool. So what are the benefits of doing this over using a sync stripper on Luma or Composite Video to get CSYNC (other than preventing the horizontal shift of 5 pixels iirc)?


This is more geared at 31Khz + modes, where there is nothing for the sync stripper to strip. As the sync is tied to the green channel.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:33 pm 


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This looks great! So will 15khz RGBS still work as normal with this mod?
EDIT: Looking at your video again I can see that it does, sorry.

This would be very convenient for integrating PS2 into a SCART switch setup.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:39 pm 


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Great work citrus3000psi!

Maybe there's a typo in 'Capacitor to remove (Simulates trace cut of video output)'. You repeated C267/C8267 for both sync on luma and cvbs. Am I correct? :)

And maybe for 7000X+ models C8267 and C8268 are inverted (C8267 for sync on luma and C8268 for cvbs). But I'm not really sure, just want to point that out.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:45 pm 


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zeruel85 wrote:
Great work citrus3000psi!

Maybe there's a typo in 'Capacitor to remove (Simulates trace cut of video output)'. You repeated C267/C8267 for both sync on luma and cvbs. Am I correct? :)

And maybe for 7000X+ models C8267 and C8268 are inverted (C8267 for sync on luma and C8268 for cvbs). But I'm not really sure, just want to point that out.



Thank you for pointing that out. :oops:

Its been updated :wink:


Last edited by citrus3000psi on Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:50 pm 


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citrus3000psi wrote:
zeruel85 wrote:
Great work citrus3000psi!

Maybe there's a typo in 'Capacitor to remove (Simulates trace cut of video output)'. You repeated C267/C8267 for both sync on luma and cvbs. Am I correct? :)

And maybe for 7000X+ models C8267 and C8268 are inverted (C8267 for sync on luma and C8268 for cvbs). But I'm not really sure, just want to point that out.



Thank you pointing that out. :oops:

Its been updated :wink:

You're welcome.

It would be great if someone can check the guncon functionality. I'm really excited for this stuff. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:45 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Excellent write-up.

You mentioned that this modification can be undone as traces are not cut. But SMD resistors are removed. It might be worthwhile to include resistor values for those that might want to restore and did not keep the tiny buggers around.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:24 pm 


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leonk wrote:
Excellent write-up.

You mentioned that this modification can be undone as traces are not cut. But SMD resistors are removed. It might be worthwhile to include resistor values for those that might want to restore and did not keep the tiny buggers around.


Updated this, along with cap values as well. The resistor you pull is 470 Ohm, so you actually don't need to buy any parts as this resistor can go in the ferrite bead location.

An alternative (destructive) way to perform this mod would be to leave the R299 resistor in place and cut the trace right next to it. Then run the wire from the resistor to the lifted cap pad of your choice. You would then leave the ferrite bead in place.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:17 am 


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For the record a Time Crisis 1 arcade unit uses c sync.
I can't see guncon having an issue. As long as you hook the gun to c sync.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:01 am 


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Great info, thanks for sharing1 :D

I've already been using a SCPH-30001 with SoG disabled along with a CRT monitor but I always wanted to use some newer PS2 model on it. :) Now it's possible!

Well I've just make the mod in a SCPH-90006 (GH 072-42) and it works great. I put a switch in order to be able to choose between composite and RGBS modes, here some pictures showing the CSYNC points in this board:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0ebG ... 1o2S2NrMEU
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0ebG ... 01YNGxtVjg

Just one thing I think it's worth to mention, as I already did on my SCPH-30001, I buffered the sync signal, since it comes straight from the GS chip and it delivers ~1.7Volts only. With a buffer circuit the csync signal can be lifted to 3,3Volts which is a proper voltage for VGA standards. Also it's a good measure for safety.
I'll do the same with H and V signals, because I have here an old CRT monitor that doesn't work just with CSYNC.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:13 am 



Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 56
Would I still need to disable sync on green if I am trying to tap the RGBHV from my 3000X board? If i remember correctly with this board revision these points are before it hits the DAC that adds SoG. But the project has been on hiatus for a while and my memory is fuzzy.

Image
Image

I have been meaning to attempt making a breakout pcb to test if tapping signals from those resistors at RGB would work.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:53 am 


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If you grab rgb right after the first DAC on the 3000x then you don’t need to worry about disabling SOG. Your diagram looks right. Let me know how it goes


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:26 am 


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citrus3000psi wrote:
ChuChu Flamingo wrote:
Cool. So what are the benefits of doing this over using a sync stripper on Luma or Composite Video to get CSYNC (other than preventing the horizontal shift of 5 pixels iirc)?


This is more geared at 31Khz + modes, where there is nothing for the sync stripper to strip. As the sync is tied to the green channel.


I've only toyed with PS2 scart vs component a tiny bit. But I always assumed that the console imposed a video mode limit in the software when in RGB mode. Was I just completely wrong and this mod makes RGB just as capable as component?
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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:19 am 


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DirkSwizzler wrote:

I've only toyed with PS2 scart vs component a tiny bit. But I always assumed that the console imposed a video mode limit in the software when in RGB mode. Was I just completely wrong and this mod makes RGB just as capable as component?


Yep, you can output 1080i rgb in gt4 :D


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:52 am 


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citrus3000psi wrote:
Yep, you can output 1080i rgb in gt4 :D


Ooh, that's interesting. :D
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Spoiler: show
  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:46 pm 


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DirkSwizzler wrote:
I've only toyed with PS2 scart vs component a tiny bit. But I always assumed that the console imposed a video mode limit in the software when in RGB mode. Was I just completely wrong and this mod makes RGB just as capable as component?


AFAIK this mod does nothing for SDTVs and/or SD content.
If and only if the PS2 detects it is outputting RGB at a resolution of 480p or greater, sync will switch over to green.

The Linux Kit VGA cable was the main official use for PS2's sync on green.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:37 pm 


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theclaw wrote:

AFAIK this mod does nothing for SDTVs and/or SD content.
If and only if the PS2 detects it is outputting RGB at a resolution of 480p or greater, sync will switch over to green.

The Linux Kit VGA cable was the main official use for PS2's sync on green


Csync in sd modes could be helpful to some people with displays that are picky about sync.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:23 pm 


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citrus3000psi wrote:
Csync in sd modes could be helpful to some people with displays that are picky about sync.


Gotcha, I kinda missed that bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:34 am 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
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I know lightgun games wont work via csync (clear sync) because they require csync (composite sync) so that's a bummer.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:40 am 


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Wolf_ wrote:
I know lightgun games wont work via csync (clear sync) because they require csync (composite sync) so that's a bummer.


CSYNC= Composite sync

The other is Composite video as sync which gets the sync signal stripped off in consumer TV sets anyway.

Just because there is no color on the Composite video line does not mean the light gun games will not work.

Arcade lightguns only use csync, and I successfully run a PS2 in a cab with a sync stripper.
The lightguns are connected to either comp video signal or the stripped sync signal. Both run fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:49 am 



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Syntax wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:
I know lightgun games wont work via csync (clear sync) because they require csync (composite sync) so that's a bummer.


CSYNC= Composite sync

The other is Composite video as sync which gets the sync signal stripped off in consumer TV sets anyway.

Just because there is no color on the Composite video line does not mean the light gun games will not work.

Arcade lightguns only use csync, and I successfully run a PS2 in a cab with a sync stripper.
The lightguns are connected to either comp video signal or the stripped sync signal. Both run fine.


That's not what I was told by Retrorgb.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:57 am 


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I did it years ago to see if there were accuracy differences with the guns running off the delayed stripped sync signal or the raw composite video signal.

I could not find a difference.

Pretty sure I stripped sync off green.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:23 pm 



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Wolf_ wrote:
Syntax wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:
I know lightgun games wont work via csync (clear sync) because they require csync (composite sync) so that's a bummer.


CSYNC= Composite sync

The other is Composite video as sync which gets the sync signal stripped off in consumer TV sets anyway.

Just because there is no color on the Composite video line does not mean the light gun games will not work.

Arcade lightguns only use csync, and I successfully run a PS2 in a cab with a sync stripper.
The lightguns are connected to either comp video signal or the stripped sync signal. Both run fine.


That's not what I was told by Retrorgb.

Maybe I typed my response wrong (or just typed a short response that you misunderstood)...the amount of emails I get these days is overwhelming and I can't really keep up anymore. I'll double check when I have time, but I'm pretty sure PS2 light guns just use sync of any kind...but I'm still unsure of what happens when you plug the gun after a sync stripper.
I do like keeping cvbs support on PS2's, just for testing though.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:39 pm 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
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retrorgb wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:
Syntax wrote:

CSYNC= Composite sync

The other is Composite video as sync which gets the sync signal stripped off in consumer TV sets anyway.

Just because there is no color on the Composite video line does not mean the light gun games will not work.

Arcade lightguns only use csync, and I successfully run a PS2 in a cab with a sync stripper.
The lightguns are connected to either comp video signal or the stripped sync signal. Both run fine.


That's not what I was told by Retrorgb.

Maybe I typed my response wrong (or just typed a short response that you misunderstood)...the amount of emails I get these days is overwhelming and I can't really keep up anymore. I'll double check when I have time, but I'm pretty sure PS2 light guns just use sync of any kind...but I'm still unsure of what happens when you plug the gun after a sync stripper.
I do like keeping cvbs support on PS2's, just for testing though.


Could have sworn it was in a weekly roundup vid of yours where you mentioned a clean sync mod and said something about keeping a composite sync line out for lightguns to work. Might have been in the comments with me below the vid or via email but I really could have sworn you said it at some point.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:59 am 



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Does anyone have a part number/digikey link for a replacement resistor or know what the dimensions are? Mine snapped out froom between my tweezers and shot off for parts unknown. :roll:

EDIT: Never mind, I found my calipers and I think it's a 1608 metric size resistor and ordered 10 of these, which will hopefully work ok.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:46 pm 


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@citrus3000psi :
If I'm happy with Sync on Luma for RGB (I don't need CSYNC from PS2), but wish to disable SoG in 31Khz modes, can I just remove the resistor (R299 on my 5000X) and be done with it?

With the only modification above (if technically possible), would the component output still work properly when PS2 is set to YCbCr and using component cables?

Ideally I wish to disable the switching of RGBs to RGsB when using 31Khz only, but keep everything else intact including working Component output should I wish to go back to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:57 pm 



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TheShadowRunner wrote:
@citrus3000psi :
If I'm happy with Sync on Luma (I don't need CSYNC from PS2), but wish to disable SoG in 31Khz modes, can I just remove the resistor (R299 on my 5000X) and be done with it?

I'm under the impression that luma and composite basically get shut off when using 480p RGB; so, by disabling SoG, you'd be removing your console's support for anything better than 480i with RGB, right?

A decent, shielded component cable seems like a cheaper, easier alternative than trying to deal with SoG.


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:29 pm 


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TheShadowRunner wrote:
@citrus3000psi :
If I'm happy with Sync on Luma for RGB (I don't need CSYNC from PS2), but wish to disable SoG in 31Khz modes, can I just remove the resistor (R299 on my 5000X) and be done with it?

With the only modification above (if technically possible), would the component output still work properly when PS2 is set to YCbCr and using component cables?

Ideally I wish to disable the switching of RGBs to RGsB when using 31Khz only, but keep everything else intact including working Component output should I wish to go back to it.


You just can't pull the resistor and be done with it. When you remove the resistor the DAC can't build composite/Component/S-Video becuase it doesn't have access to CSYNC anymore.

What you can do, is add a physical switch, that turns CSYNC on and OFF to the DAC. Route CSYNC permanently to the Luma pin or wire this to a switch as well. This would allow you to go back to 100% stock form, and disabled SOG in 480p modes manually.

I did this on the very first PS2 I did this mod to.
Image

I think @retrorgb will be making some better guides with the switch, I think he's modded like 6 ps2s already :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Made some guides on how to get CSYNC w/ no SOG on PS2
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:32 pm 


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Yeah what I'm looking for is a way to mod my PS2 such that I can have RGBS with csync and component video still works (I don't care about composite, but I still want component). So would I need to do a toggle switch mod then? My PS2 is a 30001.
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