How to get a Windows 10 PC to display 240p on a CRT?

[AndehX]

Ok, so I'd like to get Sonic Mania on my BVM, but I actually have no idea how I would do this exactly. I've read about things like soft15khz but that doesn't seem to work on Windows 10. I thought about trying an HDMI to component converter and just pushing a 424x240 or even a 640x480 signal though it, but something tells me it's not going to be that simple.

What other options are there for accomplishing this on a Windows 10 PC with a GTX1080?

[Jockel]

I hope I'm wrong, but I think you're pretty much out of luck, unless you run an older Radeon card. CRT_emudriver has pretty much replaced Soft15khz by now, at least that's the impression I got.
But take that with a grain of salt, I'm not too invested in the subject matter.

[AndehX]

There's got to be some kind of solution for modern PC's.... lol. Surely someone has come up with something

I can get hold of an old AMD Radeon R9 270 card. What about if I put that in my computer, and installed CRT_Emudriver? Would that work?

[donluca]

A Radeon HD5xxx or newer card is 10 bucks on eBay, just buy it and use that. Modern cards should work as well, I've seen people using up to R5.

[AndehX]

Well CRT_Emudriver apparently supports the R9 series too, so I'll give it a go.

[buttersoft]

http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread. ... de-Monitor

Nothing wrong with a little shameless self-promotion, right?

[BazookaBen]

I had a GTX 1080 for a little while and got 240p out of it.

I ran HDMI>HD Fury Nano GX>Audio Authority 9A60>component input on a JVC TV. I had to increase the horizontal pixel count to 1280 to get the pixel clock over 30mHz so it would display. Not sure if that was due to a minimum pixel clock on the 1080 or the HD Fury.

But yeah, analog-capable Radeon + CRT Emu_driver is a much better solution.

[buttersoft]

I had a GTX 1080 for a little while and got 240p out of it.

Can you describe the process you used? Any particular drivers? Were you able to repeat the result on any other high-end Nvidia cards? Not meaning to bombard you, but i'm curious about how you managed it.

[strygo]

Nothing wrong with a little shameless self-promotion, right?

Thanks for sharing that link! I've been searching for an explanation of "super resolutions" and I think I finally have a grasp of the concept.

[buttersoft]

Thanks for sharing that link! I've been searching for an explanation of "super resolutions" and I think I finally have a grasp of the concept.

YW As a guide it's hardly the be-all and end-all, and i'm trying to get more info about edge-cases like Ben's, above, to see if they're actually workable for all.

[BazookaBen]

Can you describe the process you used? Any particular drivers? Were you able to repeat the result on any other high-end Nvidia cards? Not meaning to bombard you, but i'm curious about how you managed it.

Normal drivers and Custom Resolution Utility. The 1080 was the only Nvidia card I've owned. I downgraded to crossfire 380x's, to get a proper analog out (for my CRT PC monitor) and maybe benefit from decent DX12 support. Turns out no studios want to use DX12 yet.

I suspect the HD Fury Nano GX had the minimum pixel clock requirement which forced me to quadruple the horizontal resolution. I wonder if there are any converters out there that actually can natively transcode 320x240 and similar 15kHz resolutions.

[buttersoft]

Interesting, and thank you for the reply. I've completely failed to get 240p out of my 980ti, using dongles programmed with various EDID's along with tools like CRU and Powerstrip. I know the dongles are good as i tested them on other cards. I wonder why cards will give low res sometimes but not others. Maybe there's something obvious that most people miss...?

I suspect the HD Fury Nano GX had the minimum pixel clock requirement which forced me to quadruple the horizontal resolution. I wonder if there are any converters out there that actually can natively transcode 320x240 and similar 15kHz resolutions.

The product info says the Nano GX handles all video formats down to SD (480p) (sic). Taking their misrepresentation to mean 31kHz 480p, well, that has a pixel clock just over 20MHz, so I presume you're right.

I wonder if it's the EDID in the Nano GX itself that allows you to push more varied custom resolutions. Any chance you'd like to dump it and upload it?

[DoomsDave]

Ok, so I'd like to get Sonic Mania on my BVM

This is probably never going to happen at 240p unless you use a downscaler.

You can however run the intro on a Mega Drive/Genesis at 240p. - https://streamable.com/0i32q

http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread. ... de-Monitor

Nothing wrong with a little shameless self-promotion, right?

buttersoft is good people

[AndehX]

This is probably never going to happen at 240p unless you use a downscaler.

It's already been done. Thats why I asking here what the best method is... lol

[AndehX]

http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread. ... de-Monitor

Nothing wrong with a little shameless self-promotion, right?

Excellent guide, thank you! Only roadblock im at right now is combining the sync signals. Would an Extron RGB 109 be fine for this job?

[BazookaBen]

I wonder if it's the EDID in the Nano GX itself that allows you to push more varied custom resolutions. Any chance you'd like to dump it and upload it?

CRU overrides the EDID. But I forget to tell you that you have to use QuckRes to select resolutions under 480 lines. It's at the bottom of this page:

https://www.ultimarc.com/download_old.html

Only roadblock im at right now is combining the sync signals. Would an Extron RGB 109 be fine for this job?

On my PVM all I needed was a BCN T-connector. You might need something more for a BVM. Fudoh would know.

[buttersoft]

CRU overrides the EDID.

Yeah, but the actual EDID still sits below that override, and the video drivers are the ultimate arbiter and can choose to ignore both - which is what usually happens when you shoot for 240p from a modern card. I reckon it still might be something in the Nano GX EDID. Can you think of a way to test this? Like, if you have an HDMI display, can you plug it into the GPU directly and try to deliver 480p, and then your 240p modeline, and see what happens? The latter should just give an out-of-sync message, of course.

Excellent guide, thank you! Only roadblock im at right now is combining the sync signals. Would an Extron RGB 109 be fine for this job?

It should, yes. But i'm not an expert on those. Does the manual say you can input 15kHz? If so, and if there is no output scan rate listed, as in no conversion or scaling is taking place, then you should be good..

I'm always reluctant to recommend the T-joiner method. I realise the Ext Sync or SCART Video input of a PVM is buffered, sometime more than once, but how about the GPU? What does feeding the two sync inputs into one another do? Not much given they'd share a DC source for offsetting?

[BazookaBen]

Have you tried that QuickRes utility yet? I think that's all you need. Windows won't show 240p as a selectable resolution no matter what you do. You have to add the 240p with CRU, then select it with QuickRes.

[AndehX]

Quickres only seems to change the resolution of my main display, which is no good. It also brings my system to a screeching halt when I run it

[orange808]

This is probably never going to happen at 240p unless you use a downscaler.

It's already been done. Thats why I asking here what the best method is... lol

Equipment to perform real time non linear aspect ratio conversion from 16:9 to 4:3 isn't in demand anymore.

That would be the only way to avoid cropping and it would introduce a fish eye distortion horizontally. I imagine scrolling the screen quickly would turn your stomach.

Cropping the screen will crop the screen. That sucks, too.

[Jockel]

This is probably never going to happen at 240p unless you use a downscaler.

It's already been done. Thats why I asking here what the best method is... lol

Equipment to perform real time non linear aspect ratio conversion from 16:9 to 4:3 isn't in demand anymore.

There's 16:9 BVMs, but I don't know what OP has.

[orange808]

I can't think of any machines that offer a native predefined widescreen 240p.

Untested guess at timings:

960 x 240 active
1200 x 262 total
pixel clock 18.863MHz
scan rate 15.719 KHz
Hwidth 96
Vwidth 3
Front and back porches depend on your display. Adjust accordingly.

Remember:
active + sync + porch values = total

That's all you need to get started.

[BazookaBen]

Quickres only seems to change the resolution of my main display, which is no good. It also brings my system to a screeching halt when I run it

Well that's the only way I've ever been able to switch to 240p. I've never tried CRTEmu Driver though

[buttersoft]

Quickres only seems to change the resolution of my main display, which is no good. It also brings my system to a screeching halt when I run it

Well that's the only way I've ever been able to switch to 240p. I've never tried CRTEmu Driver though

I'm wondering if the ArcadeOSD tool from the crt_emudriver package will work. It might not be able to modify modelines without the right EDID, i'm not sure, but it should work to switch resolutions even on NVidia?

[AndehX]

Mission accomplished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yiq5KLSnMLI

[BazookaBen]

Mission accomplished.

How did you accomplish said mission?

[doonut]

Mission accomplished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yiq5KLSnMLI

How? ^^

[AndehX]

Mission accomplished.

How did you accomplish said mission?

Basically how I said I would. Use an old Radeon R9 270, installed CRT_emudriver, and set it to 448x240. Used the Extron RGB 109 to convert RGBHV to RGBS and then just ran Sonic Mania in Windowed mode and moved it over onto the CRT.

[BazookaBen]

Basically how I said I would. Use an old Radeon R9 270, installed CRT_emudriver, and set it to 448x240. Used the Extron RGB 109 to convert RGBHV to RGBS and then just ran Sonic Mania in Windowed mode and moved it over onto the CRT.

You'd get 1 less frame of input lag if you could run in exclusive fullscreen.

[FinalBaton]

Awesome Andehx! looks great

How is the game's "widescreen-ish" resolution handled by your BVM?

Are there unused spaces at the top and bottom?
Or is there some raster lost in overscan on the left and right?
Or does the picture just fills the entire 4:32 area, making for slightly skinnier characters and art than the intended digital image?