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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:55 am 


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Joined: 01 Dec 2006
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lewolfeur wrote:
Buyed a ossc 1,6 and make some test.
Passing through the OSSC 240p signal to 1990R the n64 is now stable signal and neogeo is also normal, but still very small wave at top and less pronounced without csync.
https://imgur.com/a/HnGjx


I have a JP Nintendo 64 modded for RGB and I get perfect picture on the same model directly from the console to the monitor.


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:30 pm 


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Location: Italy
SamIAm wrote:
Since this is back from the dead, let it be known: An Extron 160xi with serration-pulse-removal enabled can take sync stripped directly from the PCE's composite video via LM1881 and output a signal that will result in a normal, accurate picture on an HTM-2050R2.

It's a bummer that you couldn't get that AFC circuitry to do the job, but at the end the result is what matters the most! Thanks for giving a proper closure to this very interesting thread :)

Also it won't matter now, but still let me link to a video of an actual VHS recording which confirms that the symptoms are the same to what plagues the PCE and other consoles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMA5aH_olAQ

Pesky analog tech!


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:21 pm 


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Location: Montpellier, FRANCE
SamIAm wrote:
3. Get a very particular model of Extron and an LM1881.

In the end, I went with #3 because it was non-invasive and I was able to pick up two 160xi units for cheap. 160xi's even have a +5V power rail, so I was able to install the LM1881 internally and have an RCA cable running out of it to hook up the PCE's composite video.


Nice will buy one for test.
You modified the j20/40 jumpers ?
https://i.imgur.com/wIxaf3D.png


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:21 pm 



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 14
SamIAm wrote:
1. Feed the internal H/V syncs into an Extron.
2. Build that Japanese fellow's circuit to re-shape and re-time the internal H/V syncs, combining them if your monitor doesn't have separate H/V sync inputs.
3. Get a very particular model of Extron and an LM1881.


4. or test my solution with extron 580xi and my own Csync correction. :D

you can see the prototype on this video:
https://youtu.be/9LhW_ZDLgw0

PCBs are incoming from china...


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:09 pm 


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mimix1004 wrote:
SamIAm wrote:
1. Feed the internal H/V syncs into an Extron.
2. Build that Japanese fellow's circuit to re-shape and re-time the internal H/V syncs, combining them if your monitor doesn't have separate H/V sync inputs.
3. Get a very particular model of Extron and an LM1881.


4. or test my solution with extron 580xi and my own Csync correction. :D

you can see the prototype on this video:
https://youtu.be/9LhW_ZDLgw0

PCBs are incoming from china...

Interesting, does this solution only work with Extron 580xi? It involves installing a PCB inside the Extron? Also will this be a universal solution for this problem, for example for people like me with the JVC DT-V monitors?


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:35 pm 



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 14
i don't know... i have made my test only for my monitor and my N64+pce

But lewolfeur will test with a neogeo on the same monitor.

PCBs are arrived and all is functionnal. but my 3d printer is fall in default this morning :( i can't do the housing for the moment...


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:07 pm 


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Can you post photo of the whole chain? I'm looking forward to finding out more about this :)


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:45 pm 



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 14
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


All is done ! now i'll send the 2nd prototype to Lewolfeur and he will test on his Neogeo !


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:06 pm 


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Can you explain a little what's happening there to the signal ?


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:15 pm 



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 14
yes, look at this picture:
Image

when you look at the little pulse up to the number three, this pulse is not present on pce and n64.

my prototype will synchronise a pulse generation on the sync signal for generate this pulse exactly with right timings for displaying a stabilized picture on my ikegami monitor.

but with this pulse, there is a little wave at the top of the screen. The extron will remove this wave with a completely changed sync signal, but this sync signal can only be generated with my correction with the extra pulse...
i'll made a video on youtube about that.


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:28 pm 



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
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the only problem wich i have always have with this prototype: sometime, when the screen is bright, the display jump.

it's caused by the extron but i don't understand why.


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:32 pm 


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So, the Extron is sitting last before the monitor ? The Extron does output TTL sync and RGB levels. You can probably fix the sync drop by adding some resistors and/or caps between the Extron and the monitor.


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:36 pm 



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 14
maybe... i shoould test this week end...


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:01 pm 


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Is it normal to have different voltages for Hsync and Vsync , say 4.3 and 4.9v respectively?


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:57 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 315
With the Extron 580xi, does having the SERR switch turned on not fix the problem with the PCE on your Ikegami? That's all it takes with the 160xi. I can't remember what the settings of the other switches were, but I can check.

What exact model of Ikegami do you have?

If you would ever like to share it, I'd love to see your circuit-design. I was considering trying to make something that adds a pulse myself, but quit once I had the Extron solution.

lewolfeur wrote:
SamIAm wrote:
3. Get a very particular model of Extron and an LM1881.

In the end, I went with #3 because it was non-invasive and I was able to pick up two 160xi units for cheap. 160xi's even have a +5V power rail, so I was able to install the LM1881 internally and have an RCA cable running out of it to hook up the PCE's composite video.


Nice will buy one for test.
You modified the j20/40 jumpers ?
https://i.imgur.com/wIxaf3D.png


Sorry that I missed this. I didn't touch any of the jumpers. If you like, I can check to see what they are.

Hiroworship, who posted earlier in this thread and owns an HTM-2050R2 as well, also got his PCE to display using an Extron 160xi. The discovery that this works is really his.


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:24 am 


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SamIAm wrote:
3. Get a very particular model of Extron and an LM1881.

In the end, I went with #3 because it was non-invasive and I was able to pick up two 160xi units for cheap. 160xi's even have a +5V power rail, so I was able to install the LM1881 internally and have an RCA cable running out of it to hook up the PCE's composite video.

As I'm not the most tech person I need to check a thing here, firstly does this only work if you connect the PCE to 160xi in one particular way? Or can I just run it through a SyncStrike (which is basically just a LM881), feed the output to Extron 160xi with SERR on and then it's fixed?! :o
An 160xi is really cheap on eBay, I'm ordering one straight away if I know it'll work that way and without any modifications to my PCE. Otherwise mimix's solution also looks good. This is all quite exciting for me :D


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:17 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 315
werk91 wrote:
As I'm not the most tech person I need to check a thing here, firstly does this only work if you connect the PCE to 160xi in one particular way? Or can I just run it through a SyncStrike (which is basically just a LM881), feed the output to Extron 160xi with SERR on and then it's fixed?! :o


In my case, yes, this worked. My signal-chain is like this: PCE composite video to LM1881 input -> LM1881 output through 330 ohm resistor to 160xi Green input -> 160xi Csync output to monitor. Meanwhile, the PCE's RGB signals are going directly to the monitor.

Three things to note:

- I put the LM1881 output into the Extron's Green input because IIRC the unit won't work unless it detects something coming into a video signal input. It strips the sync all the same.

- The Extron's Green input is terminated with 75 ohms and is rated for a video signal that's max 1.5Vp-p. Putting the LM1881's 5V output on Green directly would draw a lot of current from the LM1881 and possibly put excess voltage on the Green input. A 330 ohm resistor in series here brings the voltage down to about 0.9V. If you don't want to put in a resistor like this, I think you'd be fine putting the PCE's RGB signals through the Extron and the LM1881's output on the Extron's Hsync input.

- This solution has only been tried on an Ikegami HTM-2050R2. Other monitors that use different circuitry might not respond the same way. A tiny amount of distortion is still visible in the HBLANK area with this, so the 160xi is not necessarily rectifying the sync 100%.

Oh, and I have no idea if this works with an N64. My Ikegami doesn't have a composite video input, and I still need to RGB mod my N64


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:00 am 



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 14
SamIAm wrote:
werk91 wrote:
As I'm not the most tech person I need to check a thing here, firstly does this only work if you connect the PCE to 160xi in one particular way? Or can I just run it through a SyncStrike (which is basically just a LM881), feed the output to Extron 160xi with SERR on and then it's fixed?! :o


Oh, and I have no idea if this works with an N64. My Ikegami doesn't have a composite video input, and I still need to RGB mod my N64


all of my N64 are modded.
i have test all of mod wich exist , and all produce the same result than composite on my ikegami 1990R


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:54 pm 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 315
I got myself a Sony YR-421 S-Video to RGB converter, recapped it, and finally finished my adapter cable* so I could hook it up to my HTM-2050R2.

The results: N64, PC-FX, and 3DO all work fine with the sync going directly to the monitor, at least at a glance. I'll have to test a few more games that cover more video modes just to be sure. N64 looked like it had flagging at one point during a black transition screen after a game loaded on my Everdrive.

*If you're thinking of picking one of these up, know that the wires in the JP RGB21 connector are crimped into the connector, not soldered. You'll have to build an adapter or cut the connector off and wire something else in if you have anything other than a JP RGB21 input.


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:59 pm 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 315
By request, here are a few pics.


The jumpers inside my 160xi. I didn't change any of them myself:

Image


A wider shot of the inside. The electrical tape sarcophagus is hiding an LM1881 on a small PCB, which is wired in the totally standard way other than a 330 ohm resistor in series with the output. Notice the wires going to the 160xi's power supply, which outputs +5V (and -5V, so be careful), and the other wires going to where Green would normally come in from the D-sub 15 port. I used these to connect to the PCB pins. Finally, you can see a wire going out of the side heat vent of the case, which is where I bring in the composite video signal. The connector on the other end is a cheap RCA plug. By the way, the SERR switch is the only one in the "on" position on the other side of the unit.
Image


Finally, the result - a nice, straight image with the SuperGrafx game Aldynes. Since some systems actually don't play nice with the 160xi, I keep connectors handy to quickly re-attach things so that composite video can go directly to the monitor.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:08 am 


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Thx for the photo and explain.

My power board are not the same one. ( the 5v and ground are red and black from the 4 pin connector ?)
I see two cable from lm1881 a black and grey/white one to d-sub15 , there on green and ground ?
At the back the only bnc is on H ?


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:26 pm 


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Nice to see this thread, as I recently picked up one of these monitors myself last week (in particular, the Ikegami HTM-2005R) and also was experiencing the upper 1/3 of the screen's wavy image that SamIAm posted on the last page, mainly on PCB's. Since I had the day off today, figured I'd play around with it and was able to achieve the same results using 2 Extron processors. I might be able to cut down to one, but I'm still messing around with it. I used an SC210 for just the sync processing dip, then I hooked it into a 201 Rxi w/ ADSP (all I activated was the SERR on switch as per this thread, thanks for the tips guys). Cleaned it up perfectly.

Image Image

Image Image

Apologies for the crappy phone pics.
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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:23 pm 


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This thread is definitely giving me hope. My 160xi is arriving tomorrow and I can not wait to try it :oops: It'll be the best start to the weekend if it does the job ! Thanks for all the detailed photos and explanations everyone :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:31 pm 


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@STG: if you don't mind me asking: what does the SC210 up front accomplish that the 201 after it can't do ?


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:21 pm 


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Ah, I had it in the chain as I originally was trying splitting the sync, but just left it in when I decided to try the 201 Rxi. I've had mixed results using the 201 (and 202 and 203) Rxi in the past, mainly that it would introduce noise into the picture on the XM29 & BVM when I had the DDSP dip off. Interestingly enough, that wasn't the case at all with the Ikegami CRT.

But after I wrote that post I took the SC210 out of the chain and realized it was redundant... probably should have edited that now that you mention it. So in the end, yep, all you need to use is the 201 Rxi. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:19 pm 


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@STG: that Mushi pic is so nice :D but also makes me wonder - do Cave CV1000 boards run at 60Hz squarely?

(sorry for going ot)


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:51 pm 


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I can happily confirm that the Extron 160xi is perfect for the JVC DT-V monitor and PC Engine! 8) Basically all the skew is gone and what's left is not noticeable during the game, next will be to try out a Neo Geo CMVS...fingers crossed! Once I adapt the setup around the Extron that should be it all done :o Here's a photo of the result.


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:19 am 



Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 62
Has anyone tried this on a Sony BVM-A?


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:09 pm 



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 14
you can found my own solution there:
http://www.nicekits.fr/perso/SYNCH-CORRECTOR-FOR-IKEGAMI-1990R.zip

you'll find source files with programs, schematic and pcb for eagle cad soft, a pinout and functionnal diagram and two example of use with BNC or SCART.

Image

Image

Image


my solution works for me but all of components are used at there maximum of speed.
and sometime, on white screen one PCE you can have jumps of screen on the PCE, but that depend of the extron or the reactivity of NAND includes inside.
YOU MUST use really really fast NAND. and YOU MUST use X2 capacitor for the LM1881.

if someone want to test, i have 8 blank PCB in stock


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 Post subject: Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:42 am 



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 22
Hi all, sorry to resurrect the thread, but I'm having basically the same issue as people here, just with a different source: VGA out from PC. I'm using an Ikegami HTM-2005r, and I am using an Nvidia 980Ti with Windows 10. My setup is:

VGA out from the DVI-I port, to an Extron RGB 192V. The 192V is setup with serration edges on and DSSP on. From there, I am using BNC cables to a Crosspoint, and from the Crosspoint to the Ikegami. The crosspoint is set to 75ohm for this input.

I used CRU to create a custom resolution for 240P. When it comes to this part, I have no idea what I'm doing, but here's a screenshot of the custom resolution:

Image

Whether using RGsB or RGBS, I have the same problem with 240P - the picture is nice and stable, but the top edge is "wavy." Here's a picture:

Image

On my other TV, a M20M2U, which is also being fed by the same chain, the picture does not have this problem.

As an aside- at 720P and up, using this same setup, I get the colors coming through fine, with one glaring problem - some of the things that should be black, are turning up purple! Again, this is with RGsB or RGBS. Anyone have any insight into this problem too?

Thanks all for any help, I greatly appreciate it!


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