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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:52 pm 


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Posts: 2887
Location: Québec City
SpiderWaffle wrote:
There is most likely a pot that will do large scale H-size adjustment. The tech that set that up that monitor and adjusted that pot probably set it to ~90% (or slightly less) like the XM/XP manuals say to do; and with difference signal source parameters it will change a fair amount on these NEC, they seems more susceptible to difference signal source parameters than most CRTs.

Good catch! looks like there's a bit of room left to make the picture wider still

aaronmjr wrote:
retrorgb wrote:
That would be a massive help! I'll host it for everyone too!


I'm working with him on getting it scanned so everyone can have access to a copy. I'll definitely let you know! Are you trying to expand the CRT Model information section of your site?


Also, does anyone have this manual? It seems like I can only ever track down the "Plus" manuals, but not the regular ole XM-2950.

Image

I have a paper manual but it's for the XM Plus and XP Plus, sadly :/


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:30 pm 



Joined: 22 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
andykara2003 wrote:
Ahh, it would be good to know where that is. I'd definitely notch that back up to 100% - although I'm curious as to the reason why the manual recommends 90%..


Seems pretty bad to me too, whoever made the call on that I guess was very concerned about them overscanning and thought a slightly smaller image wouldn't hurt as much.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:27 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 393
aaronmjr wrote:
retrorgb wrote:
That would be a massive help! I'll host it for everyone too!


I'm working with him on getting it scanned so everyone can have access to a copy. I'll definitely let you know! Are you trying to expand the CRT Model information section of your site?

Th entire site is going through a major overhaul and (much to the haters' dismay) I'm also trying to turn it into a not-for-profit "web museum", to ensure it lasts forever: https://igg.me/at/uZ-2IOkeG60/x


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:44 pm 


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Posts: 170
Location: Netherlands
aaronmjr wrote:
retrorgb wrote:
That would be a massive help! I'll host it for everyone too!


I'm working with him on getting it scanned so everyone can have access to a copy. I'll definitely let you know! Are you trying to expand the CRT Model information section of your site?


Also, does anyone have this manual? It seems like I can only ever track down the "Plus" manuals, but not the regular ole XM-2950.

Image


I have a paper XM29 manual.
Will see if I can scan it this week if needed ;)


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:56 pm 


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My XM29 Plus has been sitting in my closet for the past few years. The 15khz screeching sound drives me nuts. I tried jamming a fork into the coil thing and that worked for a bit only to return with a vengeance. On top of that the fans are loud too so I just switched to a regular Trinitron.

I'd like to fix the thing but the thought of trying to track down someone who knows how to fix these sorts of things and then lugging it over there if I do find someone is too much.

On a side note I put adhesive anti-skid stickers (kind of like pads for moving furniture but square) for easy tate-ing without scratching up the monitor.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:28 am 



Joined: 22 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
aaronmjr wrote:
retrorgb wrote:
That would be a massive help! I'll host it for everyone too!


I'm working with him on getting it scanned so everyone can have access to a copy. I'll definitely let you know! Are you trying to expand the CRT Model information section of your site?


Also, does anyone have this manual? It seems like I can only ever track down the "Plus" manuals, but not the regular ole XM-2950.

Image


I don't think anyone's digitized the "user" manual for the XM2950, I could never find it, the service manual is hosted though.
But it's not particularly useful as a service manual without the PG-2740 manual. Did you ever get the info you need from Phil about getting that online?


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:13 am 



Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 383
I may have found something interesting – or not. In any case, I thought I'd post it here.

I finally had a chance to use GroovyMame with the XP29. I was messing around with both "standard" 60hz and 120hz* modelines.

* 120hz eliminates the framebuffer, saving a full frame of display lag and it eliminates some ms of input lag depending on your framedelay setting and the arcade machine's framerate.

So this is what the 60hz image looks like:

Spoiler: show
Image


And this is 120hz:

Spoiler: show
Image


You'll see that the 120hz image has more extreme "bowing" at the sides and the geometry issues are generally more pronounced. I was a little surprised to see this, but maybe its to be expected?

Any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:18 am 



Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 70
I picked up a XM29 on Craigslist and now I'm hyper-analyzing the picture when compared to my 20L5. The XM29 seems a little soft? Am I just overthinking it?

I wish I could take a picture to illustrate the point but none of them turn out well. In fact text in Suikoden II even seems blurry until I turn down the contrast a bit from default settings. I might wind up selling it, not sure I am enjoying the picture. It's not terrible by any means though.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:34 pm 


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Location: Québec City
It's gonna look quite different than your 20L5, that's for sure. A bit softer and don't expect solid laserbeams-like scanlines. it has a rougher look to it.

But blurry? That doesn't sound right. Mine doesn't look blurry at all. What's there is very well defined, and color and contrast are good. Maybe yours need a recap, or some adjusting inside.



Having said that it's never gonna look quite as "lcd-like" (or BVM-like I guess is what I'm saying) than your 20L5, so if you're expecting that... maybe you're better off selling it to someone who's gonna appreciate it for what it is.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:54 pm 


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If you add an Extron 201/2/3 into the signal path, you get a fantastic sharpening control as well as an RGB boost if you want a slightly more vibrant image. You have to be careful with the sharpening level but the nature of the NEC's shadow mask makes it quite forgiving to the point where you can get a significantly sharper image without visible artefacts.

I'd previously tried a VP50pro for it's extra fine sharpening controls but surprisingly the Extron gave a much nicer result.

Saying all that, it shouldn't really look blurry - I just use the Extron for the softer consoles like GameCube & Wii. Do you get really thick, defined scanlines in 240p?


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:43 pm 


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2 more things to consider on these (not for sharpness, but for vibrancy of the picture).

-unlike the PVMs where any combination of bightness+contrast looks great and you just tailor it to your liking, the NEC has like a very specific combination of brightness+contrast that must be dialed in to get the optimal picture. (and it's a small window too, you've got maybe a leeway of 2-3 clicks on contrast, and none on brightness). This proved maddening on mine, in fact I almost gave up. But eventually I found the right combo, and now it looks rich and vibrant. before I've spent hours upon hours making tests though! (via the buttons on the monitor, which admittedly is a lot more slow and frustrating than via the remote. I highly suggest you get a remote if you don't have one already). So experiment a lot to try and find the best combo you can for these values, before discarding the monitor. It is so worth it. I know it's hard to judge via a vid, but my NEC's picture looks a lot better than Phonedorks', for example.

-while I know 6500K is the temperature for whites we're supposed to use (and I do use it on PVMs), on the NEC 10500K just looks so much better, it's not even close(I don't know if it's because someone tweaked the values of those presets, or not). And that's what I rock on mine, I adjusted the contrast+brightness to work with that. 6500K just mires everything in yellow.


And as a side note, I also use an Extron interface to help dial in the picture of consoles with a very bright output (SNES, and sometimes PS1/PS2, depending of the game, since it's not quite as overly bright as SNES.). I have an input dedicated to these consoles, and the picture is set with a lower contrast but I compensate by cranking the gain on the Extron a bit. Works great, SNES is one of the best looking signals on my NEC now.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:23 pm 



Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 70
Thank you everyone-- and to the last post in particular. I'm glad that it is not unusual to have to adjust contrast and brightness to get the optimal focus of the image. I'll need to look at the manual on how to make it a user preset since it seems to lose the settings when I shut it down.

As far as 240p goes, yes I seem to be getting good scanlines. I'd say the only other troubling issue is a very slight warping effect on the left side of the picture.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:50 pm 


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Posts: 170
Location: Netherlands
If you have a ‘normal’ XM29, you can only set brightness and contrast via the remote, no buttons on the monitor and no OSD


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:07 pm 



Joined: 30 Dec 2014
Posts: 463
FriendofSonic wrote:
I picked up a XM29 on Craigslist and now I'm hyper-analyzing the picture when compared to my 20L5. The XM29 seems a little soft? Am I just overthinking it?

I wish I could take a picture to illustrate the point but none of them turn out well. In fact text in Suikoden II even seems blurry until I turn down the contrast a bit from default settings. I might wind up selling it, not sure I am enjoying the picture. It's not terrible by any means though.


It's definitely a softer picture mainly because they used shadow mask and the dot pitch on these presentation displays is a lot higher than they are on other monitors. Still once you get the settings right this monitor has a really good picture. Dreamcast 480p and old pc games still looking great with this monitor. I do need to find a service tech in my area since my monitor was manufactured in 97 and should probably get serviced soon.

@Final Baton, I don't think 6500k is all that bad with this monitor. Maybe I have gotten used to it by now but it looks good to me. Though it has been a while since I played it at 10500k so I don't really remember how that looked. Most the pictures I have posted have been on that setting.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:11 pm 


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FriendofSonic wrote:
Thank you everyone-- and to the last post in particular. I'm glad that it is not unusual to have to adjust contrast and brightness to get the optimal focus of the image. I'll need to look at the manual on how to make it a user preset since it seems to lose the settings when I shut it down.

As far as 240p goes, yes I seem to be getting good scanlines. I'd say the only other troubling issue is a very slight warping effect on the left side of the picture.

I hope you'll find how to keep settings saved! On mine, whatever picture setting I dial in for a particular input, it will always stay that way even if I power on and off. I didn't have to enable that option or anything, it was on by default. What's nice is that each input saves it's own settings.

As for adjusting geometry : what's nice with these monitors is that you have access to all geometry options(except horizontal linearity) via the menu/remote. So chances are good that you'll be able to get a good geometry wthout having to open the monitor.

Do you have a remote for it? I HIGHLY recommend you pick one up.

tacoguy64 wrote:
@Final Baton, I don't think 6500k is all that bad with this monitor. Maybe I have gotten used to it by now but it looks good to me. Though it has been a while since I played it at 10500k so I don't really remember how that looked. Most the pictures I have posted have been on that setting.

I like 6500K for a couple games here and there actually, but for the vast majority, 10500K looks a lot better, at least to me. Maybe that white balance just pleases my eyes more on that monitor.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:22 am 



Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 70
Yeah I do have a remote luckily, which by the way is amazing that you have access to Geometry with the remote. At the very least I need to figure out how to save settings so that I can make the picture look as good as possible either for me or the next person. Fun weekend project coming up.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:57 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 158
aaronmjr wrote:
retrorgb wrote:
That would be a massive help! I'll host it for everyone too!


I'm working with him on getting it scanned so everyone can have access to a copy. I'll definitely let you know!


Hey aaronmjr. How are you going with getting this supplement service manual scanned? I'm currently trying to fix a dead XM29 and the supplement service manual would be a MASSIVE help to me with attempting to bring it back to life. I'm more than happy to send you a few dollars to cover return shipping to philexile and cover your time if that would assist?

Let me know, aaronmjr. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:00 am 


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xga wrote:
Hey aaronmjr. How are you going with getting this supplement service manual scanned?


I need to apologize, guys. I haven't made time to send it to Phil yet. I actually ended up misplacing it for a short while as I had put it into a box for safe keeping while I completely recreate my game room. I found it again last weekend and thought of you guys. I will have it in the mail Friday, you have my word. Picture of my excuse in action. My apologies, again!


Image


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:31 am 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 158
aaronmjr wrote:
xga wrote:
Hey aaronmjr. How are you going with getting this supplement service manual scanned?


I need to apologize, guys. I haven't made time to send it to Phil yet. I actually ended up misplacing it for a short while as I had put it into a box for safe keeping while I completely recreate my game room. I found it again last weekend and thought of you guys. I will have it in the mail Friday, you have my word. Picture of my excuse in action. My apologies, again!


Image


Many thanks, aaronmjr! Really appreciate this and I'm sure a lot of the other people in this thread do too!

I think I might have to steal your cable management idea on the back of your cabinet. Very clever and handy idea. Good luck on setting up your games room too.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:11 pm 


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Location: MN
xga wrote:
I think I might have to steal your cable management idea on the back of your cabinet. Very clever and handy idea. Good luck on setting up your games room too.


Thanks! Yeah the wiring duct has really come in handy. I was worried about getting one that had too much girth, thinking that it would push the whole stand too far away from the wall. Let me tell you if you end up going the same route, get the biggest one you can, and make sure the slot size is .30" (the biggest I found). It filled up really quickly! In my case, for the cables that only had to go a couple feet, I coiled them up and tied them and tucked them into the duct which takes up a fair amount of space in there. Anyways I have everything hooked up finally, and some friends came over last night and helped me put the top two monitors up! Also, the PG-2740 Service Manual is on it's way to Phil.

Excess and Overkill be thy name.





Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Keen eyed observers will notice there are only 3 inputs going into the Extron Crosspoint. Simple matter of not being able to afford another $200 in female SCART to BNC adapters w/built in stripper circuits at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:08 am 


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Posts: 479
Location: Bellingham, WA
aaronmjr wrote:
xga wrote:
I think I might have to steal your cable management idea on the back of your cabinet. Very clever and handy idea. Good luck on setting up your games room too.


Thanks! Yeah the wiring duct has really come in handy. I was worried about getting one that had too much girth, thinking that it would push the whole stand too far away from the wall. Let me tell you if you end up going the same route, get the biggest one you can, and make sure the slot size is .30" (the biggest I found). It filled up really quickly! In my case, for the cables that only had to go a couple feet, I coiled them up and tied them and tucked them into the duct which takes up a fair amount of space in there. Anyways I have everything hooked up finally, and some friends came over last night and helped me put the top two monitors up! Also, the PG-2740 Service Manual is on it's way to Phil.

Excess and Overkill be thy name.



Spoiler: show
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Image

Keen eyed observers will notice there are only 3 inputs going into the Extron Crosspoint. Simple matter of not being able to afford another $200 in female SCART to BNC adapters w/built in stripper circuits at the moment.



That setup is quite amazing @ Aaronmjr

That is a class act.

I feel like you guys will soon the discover the secret of h width and it will be a whole new ball game for the XM owners

But that setup is super sweet and I would kill to play multiplayer on it
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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:07 am 


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Are you sure the rack's not going to give in sooner or later?
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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:58 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 158
aaronmjr wrote:
Also, the PG-2740 Service Manual is on it's way to Phil.


Thanks heaps for this, aaronmjr!

Your set-up looks pretty awesome. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:15 pm 


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Location: MN
Hoagtech wrote:
That setup is quite amazing @ Aaronmjr

That is a class act.

I feel like you guys will soon the discover the secret of h width and it will be a whole new ball game for the XM owners

But that setup is super sweet and I would kill to play multiplayer on it


Thanks!


ryu wrote:
Are you sure the rack's not going to give in sooner or later?


I built it out of pretty massive lumber. 2x12's on the top and bottom with lots of bracing in between. I feel like it could take another 300lbs. It's not going anywhere.


xga wrote:
Thanks heaps for this, aaronmjr!

Your set-up looks pretty awesome. 8)


Absolutely. And thank you! I'm enjoying it! Just need to get a damn couch! Haha.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:05 am 



Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Posts: 1
I've been a long time lurker here ever since I got my first XM29+ 6 years ago. I just joined up and wanted to maybe get some help possibly repairing one of my XM29+'s that I killed a week ago. I had the thing hooked up to a PSX with a sync on luma cable to a bandbridge manual switch to a sync stripping bnc breakout cable. I had just got this PSX and it is a SPCH-9001 and it wasn't able to sent a correct sync signal to the monitor. The same cable had worked on a SCPH-5501 and a PS2. I turned off the PSX and went to unplug the cable and replug it in hoping it had a dirty contact but when I unplugged it the monitor started buzzing and a faint orange scrambled signal flew over the screen and then after about a second the noise died and I smelled smoke strongly coming from the monitor. I had once caused that same buzzing and faint orange image to happen before when crt_emudriver on my pc glitched out but it hadn't damaged the monitor then or not enough to kill it.

The thing still powers up and it sounds like the tube is charged or whatever but there's no image displayed on any inputs or from the OSD. I don't know a ton about CRTs but I'd guess the horizontal output transistor is probably what went. I have a 2nd XM29+ so it could be possible for me to swap around chassis parts to isolate which one is bad. I worry though if a bad part could fry the known good ones I swap in. What my chances are of repairing this or should I just keep it for parts?


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:37 pm 


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I'm no repair person, but a good start would be to take the back off the case, discharge the tube, and then sniff around and find the fried component with your nose. It would at least lead you to the area, or the board that is having an issue. I'd do it sooner than later before the smell fades.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:16 am 



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 147
Location: germany
FriendofSonic wrote:
Yeah I do have a remote luckily, which by the way is amazing that you have access to Geometry with the remote. At the very least I need to figure out how to save settings so that I can make the picture look as good as possible either for me or the next person. Fun weekend project coming up.


It seems that you need the NEC RD-335E (the one with the user preset button) Remote control in order to save the settings in the memory.
the NEC RD-336E is missing this button


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:21 pm 


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PascalP wrote:
If you have a ‘normal’ XM29, you can only set brightness and contrast via the remote, no buttons on the monitor and no OSD


I have a standard XM29 with the RD-335E remote and can adjust width, height, side pin, and position along with contrast and brightness for RGB. Everything including geometry and brightness contrast can be saved as a preset as well.

svensonson wrote:
FriendofSonic wrote:
Yeah I do have a remote luckily, which by the way is amazing that you have access to Geometry with the remote. At the very least I need to figure out how to save settings so that I can make the picture look as good as possible either for me or the next person. Fun weekend project coming up.


It seems that you need the NEC RD-335E (the one with the user preset button) Remote control in order to save the settings in the memory.
the NEC RD-336E is missing this button


Yes, that's correct. Once you have the geometry for a certain input set the way you like, pressing the "USER PRESET" button will save the settings for that input. I don't know if separate settings can be saved on one input for 15khz vs. 31khz. I'm guessing no but I haven't tested it.


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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:28 pm 



Joined: 22 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
I found on the XM29 the USER PRESET button (for geometry at least didn't check with the color based USER PRESET button) will save different profile for different resolutions, so will remember difference between 480p 600p 768p ect. (only checked with VGA input, not sure if works for others like RGBS/RGBHV)

Just got to see some of the PG-2740 insert from Phil and calibrate an XM29. The adjustment pots all lined up with the service manual and the actual boards EXCEPT ONE, VR5501 for the keystone adjustment on uCOM/V PWB board. This pot isn't listed in the XM29 service manual, no where to be found on the board or ANY of the other boards. One pot from this crowed board got overflowed onto the adjacent edge of the DEF/HV board and was noted in the PG-2740 insert.

I scoured physically every board looking for VR5501 or keystone or related, found nothing, did find every other pot listed in the insert and the manual though. It's very to get look inside one of these without taking frame and board apart tons of wires, boards and chasis blocking view of everything so I might have missed something on a physical board; but still, it's omitted from the service manual and nothing else was.

These are the extra pot adjustments you have NOT found on the remote:

-geometry-
uCOM/V PWB (on bottom, right side on monitor):
VR5504 center of screen vertical pin/bow.
VR5505 LEFT pin/bow. together with 5504 in back right on monitor, get at with low clearance Phillips
VR5401 normal pin cushion. is spilled over on DEF/HV board edge, just behind center board (DEF SUB) easy to get at with long Phillips
VR5503 Tilt. more in center of baord (assuming V. angle, not rotation, one pot I didn't need to touch)
VR**** L/R speaker balance. right next to Tilt pot, more towards back right corner

DEF SUB board (stands vertically under the tube neck):
VR403 Vertical Linearty. second from right, ~1" away from and in middle of diagonal edge

-focus-
Vertical focus on edge of DEF/HV board under the CRT screen closer to middle of monitor
Horizontal focus on edge of DEF/HV board under the CRT screen closer to left edge of monitor
Focus 1 on flyback


Also has the adjustments for color gains/bias whitebalance chroma phase ect and more.


Last edited by SpiderWaffle on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:30 pm 


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That's awesome that you were able to use the information in it! Great news! Hopefully that means it's been scanned as well.


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