JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

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Namingway_PL
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by Namingway_PL »

bzn wrote:
treminaor wrote:Yours is probably one of the worst I've ever seen.
This is an exaggerated picture, its not nearly as bad in person, especially in actual games, but the halo is nevertheless very visible around white text and such.
treminaor wrote:raise the screen voltage via the flyback adjustment until just before you see a grey background with retrace lines (lower it back until the background is black again), and then tweak the contrast until you get a good peak white level. Use both the RGB Color Bars and Plunge tests from 240p test suite to evaluate your work while tweaking settings.
These sets actually have a service mode that draws a horizontal line to help tune G1 (SCREEN VR), which I have done according to the manual.
I have set B1 voltage to 53V as recommended and subjectively both settings yield the best picture when set as recommended.
treminaor wrote:Does the bleeding get better when you turn down contrast significantly?
Lowering the contrast does not really help the halo.
Effect does change depending on viewing angle (photo taken from center axis) which leads experienced people to believe that its just internal reflections off the glass. However, other users of multiple TM-Hs also report that effect varies between units. Could be due to wear or just psychological though.
Hey, about that halo effect on the TM-H. I owned more TM-H units than I can remember, and from my experience this "halo" is totaly normal.

Those monitors have a very dark CRT tube, compared to a Sony You can easily notice that when turned off, a tube of a Sony monitor will look grey, but the TM-H is pitch black. Also they are quite bright, so in my opinion this is why there is a halo.

And hey, are You sure about those hours on the TM-H? The values on the counter can be easily changed, and I don't think it works like in the DT-V monitors (x100). So how can You be sure that it's showing the correct hours? As there is nothing stated in the manual about this.
Last edited by Namingway_PL on Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
highzeth
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by highzeth »

Sorry for the semi off topic question, has anyone RGB modded a TM-1500PS? I've looked over the schematics, and it seems to not have a "regular" jungle IC, so not sure how to approach it. Would really appreciate if any of you with more knowledge on this could give me some pointers.
Attached link is the service manual.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cuFV8Z ... sp=sharing
Dochartaigh
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

Did anybody post a clear picture of this "halo effect" or did I miss it? I try to stay tuned into PVM/BVM type monitors and this is the first I've heard of this (unless it's called something else), and a few of you are making it sound like it's super normal/common so it's weird I haven't heard of this and was curious what the deal is.
skum
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by skum »

highzeth wrote:Sorry for the semi off topic question, has anyone RGB modded a TM-1500PS? I've looked over the schematics, and it seems to not have a "regular" jungle IC, so not sure how to approach it. Would really appreciate if any of you with more knowledge on this could give me some pointers.
Attached link is the service manual.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cuFV8Z ... sp=sharing
To my knowledge nobody has done this. You can see that the neckboard doesn't do "regular" RGB, and as you say, there's no jungle taking RGB in directly. Thus seemingly the only way, would be to create that R-Y, B-Y, G-Y, Y signal manually for the neckboard, which would be a rather complex mod, but of course, would be cool :)
skum
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by skum »

Dochartaigh wrote:Did anybody post a clear picture of this "halo effect" or did I miss it? I try to stay tuned into PVM/BVM type monitors and this is the first I've heard of this (unless it's called something else), and a few of you are making it sound like it's super normal/common so it's weird I haven't heard of this and was curious what the deal is.
I am unsure if it is the same as I've seen on pictures of from a DT-V1710CG, but I found it here: Albeit not the best picture in the world, looking at it for some time you can see that within the CRTs picture area, way in the top a little to the left is a "bright" part of the image, of what should pitch black. Note that I did not take this picture.
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fernan1234
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by fernan1234 »

skum wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:Did anybody post a clear picture of this "halo effect" or did I miss it? I try to stay tuned into PVM/BVM type monitors and this is the first I've heard of this (unless it's called something else), and a few of you are making it sound like it's super normal/common so it's weird I haven't heard of this and was curious what the deal is.
I am unsure if it is the same as I've seen on pictures of from a DT-V1710CG, but I found it here: Albeit not the best picture in the world, looking at it for some time you can see that within the CRTs picture area, way in the top a little to the left is a "bright" part of the image, of what should pitch black. Note that I did not take this picture.
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Yep that's in all of them, I always thought it was a reflection on the tube from the gray light drawn at the top of the raster. It only appears to show up with certain signals being input, not all. It's pretty easy to ignore regardless.
Namingway_PL
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by Namingway_PL »

@skum: hey, the "halo" effect was on the TM-H monitors, not DT-V [WINKING FACE]

The thing on the DT-V was described here as "light bleed" [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND COLD SWEAT] Not sure if those are proper terms for that.

In case of the DT-V, this "light bleed" might have something to do with the RGB lines displayed on the top of the screen, but I'm not 100% sure about that.
bzn
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by bzn »

Dochartaigh wrote:Did anybody post a clear picture of this "halo effect" or did I miss it?
I posted it a 1750 a few months ago
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Namingway_PL wrote: Those monitors have a very dark CRT tube, compared to a Sony
Oh I didn't think about that, just noticed there is less of it on sonys. Also makes sense with reflection theory because the trinitron is only curved in one direction.
Namingway_PL wrote: And hey, are You sure about those hours on the TM-H? The values on the counter can be easily changed, and I don't think it works like in the DT-V monitors (x100). So how can You be sure that it's showing the correct hours? As there is nothing stated in the manual about this.
Absolutely not sure. I saw the x100 on a DT-V and assumed it's the same for TM-H. It could be confirmation bias, but I feel it works the same way, maybe with a different multiplier. A brand new one reads 001 that's for sure. Don't expect anyone to tinker with it in a professional environment, but I have had a gamer sell me a one reading 6k with a dead tube
highzeth
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by highzeth »

skum wrote:
highzeth wrote:Sorry for the semi off topic question, has anyone RGB modded a TM-1500PS? I've looked over the schematics, and it seems to not have a "regular" jungle IC, so not sure how to approach it. Would really appreciate if any of you with more knowledge on this could give me some pointers.
Attached link is the service manual.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cuFV8Z ... sp=sharing
To my knowledge nobody has done this. You can see that the neckboard doesn't do "regular" RGB, and as you say, there's no jungle taking RGB in directly. Thus seemingly the only way, would be to create that R-Y, B-Y, G-Y, Y signal manually for the neckboard, which would be a rather complex mod, but of course, would be cool :)
Thanks for taking the time to answer! And yeah, I feared that would be the approach needed. Will see what pans out, but for now, I'll continue to enjoy its s-video input.
fernan1234
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by fernan1234 »

I just discovered that according to the DT-V monitors' instructions manual, the ASPECT and UNDER SCAN buttons don't work with RGB inputs, and indeed with a unit that I just started testing pressing these buttons displays "NO EFFECT", but I used to have two other units with which I was perfectly able to toggle aspect ratio and scan mode with these buttons even with RGB inputs. I wonder if somehow they were detecting them as Component inputs, but this was on two different units so I don't think anything special was going on.

Does anyone know anything about this, and if there is some way to trick the monitor into enabling these functions with RGB inputs?
Namingway_PL
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by Namingway_PL »

@fernan1234 I need to check on my units, but I think that the "aspect" and "underscan" should work. Other settings like "screen check" and such are definetly blocked.

There might be a way to enable it but if that's the case, it would probably be somewhere in the control block or or it would require to mess around with the CPU.

Anyway partly for this reason (but also because of the sync issues) I'm considering using a rgb to ypbpr transcoder as component looks just as good as RGB on the DT-V but is more flexible.
fernan1234
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by fernan1234 »

Namingway_PL wrote:@fernan1234 I need to check on my units, but I think that the "aspect" and "underscan" should work. Other settings like "screen check" and such are definetly blocked.

There might be a way to enable it but if that's the case, it would probably be somewhere in the control block or or it would require to mess around with the CPU.

Anyway partly for this reason (but also because of the sync issues) I'm considering using a rgb to ypbpr transcoder as component looks just as good as RGB on the DT-V but is more flexible.
If you get a chance to check with your units please let me know. The service menu doesn't list all of the settings in the CPU block, but I also suspect one of those controls this. It would be good to make note of the non-listed values and compare to find the difference.
Namingway_PL
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by Namingway_PL »

@fernan1234 I've chcecked my units, and they are also blocked. And as I recall, They were also blocked on every unit that I ever had. It would be nice to have at least screen check and underscan enabled. But that's not much of a deal breaker imo. Just another quirk of the DT-V I guess.
fernan1234
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by fernan1234 »

Namingway_PL wrote:@fernan1234 I've chcecked my units, and they are also blocked. And as I recall, They were also blocked on every unit that I ever had. It would be nice to have at least screen check and underscan enabled. But that's not much of a deal breaker imo. Just another quirk of the DT-V I guess.
Thanks for checking! Are your units all 1910? What I realized after posting about this last time is that all of the 1910 units that I've used have these functions blocked for RGB as the manual states, but all 1710 units don't disable them (in spite of the 1710 manual also saying that they have no effect).
Namingway_PL
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by Namingway_PL »

@fernan1234 Hey, I was testing out one of my JVC DT-V1710CG's that I want to sell, and I can confirm that on this unit underscan and aspect buttons do work with RGB.

This is my most recent unit manufactured in february 2008. On my second DT-V1710CG (2006) and my DT-V1910CG (2007) those options are blocked for RGB.

There is definetly a way to enable them, but still I have no idea how to do it.
fernan1234
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by fernan1234 »

Namingway_PL wrote:This is my most recent unit manufactured in february 2008. On my second DT-V1710CG (2006) and my DT-V1910CG (2007) those options are blocked for RGB.
That's really interesting. I doubt it's something necessarily related to date of manufacture. It has to be some value in the service menu, most likely in the control block. I guess a good way to find it would be to compare the control block values between your 2008 and 2006 1710s, before you sell one of them, as this would be really useful information for most DT-V users.

I'm down to a single unit myself so I can't make this comparison anymore, but the one I have left does have these functions enabled for RGB inputs.
Fed
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by Fed »

Does somebody know what the pots found on top of the yoke in a TM-H influence ?
They are labelled YHC, YV and the last one has a "triangle" followed by a "V".
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matt
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by matt »

Fed wrote:Does somebody know what the pots found on top of the yoke in a TM-H influence ?
They are labelled YHC, YV and the last one has a "triangle" followed by a "V".
They are for dynamic convergence. Most PC and pro monitor tubes have them.

It's safe to play with them (mark their original position with a marker first). If you have convergence issues near the edges, they can help a lot.
Fed
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by Fed »

Thanks for your reply, I played around with them and they do exactly as you said.
Sadly the area where I am trying to improve vertical convergence is on both sides of the center of the screen, any advice on achieving that ?
springman
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by springman »

Another proud owner of JVC DT-V1710CG here! Though, I blame myself for keeping it under my desks for years before last week when I after all really started to use it on a GrooyMAME PC with CRT Emudriver!

Thank you all for all the info among the 10 pages so far!

I've ran through them all and please allow me to dig back up one unanswered question:

The monitor preset of Arcade tri-sync is not perfect for DT-V1710CG in CRT Emudriver. The timings are kinda generic; overscans and underscans are all over the place. It's even worse with more strange refresh rates such as R-Type. With the Arcade tri-sync preset R-Type is squashed in the middle with huge black bars above and below plus a few lines of colorful pixels at the top.

Would any CRT Emudriver / VMMake users here please share the best, native DT-V1710CG monitor specs lines (crt_range0, crt_range1, and crt_range2)?

Before going into the service menu for the H and V position and size I'd love to have the best timings first. But please excuse me for my ignorance in all those sync jargons ...

Please help! Thanks!
fernan1234
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by fernan1234 »

springman wrote:The monitor preset of Arcade tri-sync is not perfect for DT-V1710CG in CRT Emudriver. The timings are kinda generic; overscans and underscans are all over the place. It's even worse with more strange refresh rates such as R-Type. With the Arcade tri-sync preset R-Type is squashed in the middle with huge black bars above and below plus a few lines of colorful pixels at the top.
DT-Vs are really cool in that they seem to display pretty much any weird refresh rates you throw at it, unlike many other pro monitors which can only display standard ones or those not too far from it like typical game consoles. The downside is that it seems to treat those odd refresh rate inputs as HD inputs, and so it uses the 16:9 position and sizing settings, which is why you see the big black bars above and below plus that line on top which is just the beginning of the raster and will be behind the 16:9 mask if you use that (which I don't recommend as it easily scratches the AG film).

This means that adjusting the timings won't help you much in this regard, it'll still be displayed with the HD 16:9 settings of the monitor if it's an odd refresh rate. If you don't intend to watch 16:9 content in this monitor, you might as well adjust the settings to give you as close to a full picture as possible (vertical size may not go far enough to fill vertically all the way).
springman
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by springman »

fernan1234 wrote:
springman wrote:The monitor preset of Arcade tri-sync is not perfect for DT-V1710CG in CRT Emudriver. The timings are kinda generic; overscans and underscans are all over the place. It's even worse with more strange refresh rates such as R-Type. With the Arcade tri-sync preset R-Type is squashed in the middle with huge black bars above and below plus a few lines of colorful pixels at the top.
DT-Vs are really cool in that they seem to display pretty much any weird refresh rates you throw at it, unlike many other pro monitors which can only display standard ones or those not too far from it like typical game consoles. The downside is that it seems to treat those odd refresh rate inputs as HD inputs, and so it uses the 16:9 position and sizing settings, which is why you see the big black bars above and below plus that line on top which is just the beginning of the raster and will be behind the 16:9 mask if you use that (which I don't recommend as it easily scratches the AG film).

This means that adjusting the timings won't help you much in this regard, it'll still be displayed with the HD 16:9 settings of the monitor if it's an odd refresh rate. If you don't intend to watch 16:9 content in this monitor, you might as well adjust the settings to give you as close to a full picture as possible (vertical size may not go far enough to fill vertically all the way).
Thank you so much! I'll get in there and try then! Ha ... I've never got into my DT-V's service menu!
fernan1234
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by fernan1234 »

springman wrote:Thank you so much! I'll get in there and try then! Ha ... I've never got into my DT-V's service menu!
For the picture size and position settings that you want here you don't need to get into the actual service menu, you just need to use the "set-up menu", which are values that you can change while the corresponding values in the service menu remain constant.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by Tempest_2084 »

I have TM-H1750G that I've been trying to perfect the geometry on. I adjusted the screen the best I could, but as you can see there's still some flairing (outward bowing?) on the sides, especially towards the bottom. Unfortunately my model has very limited geometry controls so there wasn't much I could do (EW Corner and EW Parabola are about it). Is there anything else I can do to fix this problem or do I just live with it? It's really not that bad, just annoying. My next goal is to adjust the underscan so I can try and center some of these systems that want to drift left or right (the Genesis shifts left but the PSX shifts right for example). Basically I want to use the underscan mode as a second set of geometry values because as it turns out I don't really need to underscan anything except the Neo Geo.

I'm trying to decide if I want to use this or my PVM 1943-MD as my main gaming CRT. The PVM has a size and geometry advantage but the JVC is sharper and the colors are more vivid and the image shift problem is worse on the PVM. First world problems...

BTW does anyone know the difference between the TM-H1750G and the TM-H1750GC? Mine is a TM-H1750G (no C) but every time I see it referenced it always has the C on the end of it.
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ViraLicious
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by ViraLicious »

Hi all!


The problem:

I bought a JVC DT-V1710CG about two months ago and has since been fiddling with its geometry to get it as close to perfect or good enough as I can. However, there is an issue I’ve identified which I can’t seem to fix. All 240p content (and perhaps other resolutions as well, but less noticeable) seem to have a pinch effect in the center and bloating on the sides of the screen. As a result, when playing side scrollers, it creates a reverse fish eye lens - where content entering and exiting the frame gets stretched and pinched in the center. I’ve heard of this effect before, but never seen it until now.

Added a picture below, it’s a bit tricky to see perhaps, but if you look closely you can see the squares on the edges (left, right, top and bottom) are different from the middle.

Image

What I’ve done:

I’ve gone through and fiddled with the various deflection block settings available in the (deep) service menu, both for 480/60i and the Common settings, plus the regular deflection block settings like Pincushion and Pin Balance settings available in the menu you access by pressing Volume - and Down. I am not sure if I’m missing something or if I’m simply doing it wrong.

In case all of this was sync related, I run the signal through my Extron rxi 203, but it didn’t help and the pinch/bend remained. It just introduced a wobble on top of the screen instead.

My setup:

My monitor has 9300 hours give or take of use. I’d say it’s in fair/okay condition.

My consoles go through my gscartsw 3.2 directly to my JVC. I have both the Scart and BNC input cards, and both have the same issue. I have tried with the Sync stripper in the gscartsw on and off, no change. It’s also the same when I run the consoles directly to the JVC.

Summary/question:

I have tried everything I can think of - is there something I am missing? Has any of you faced a similar issue? What can I and must I do to fix this? Please help! This is driving me a bit nuts!
fernan1234
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by fernan1234 »

ViraLicious wrote:In case all of this was sync related, I run the signal through my Extron rxi 203, but it didn’t help and the pinch/bend remained. It just introduced a wobble on top of the screen instead.
It's not sync related, you just have bad linearity. The only thing you can do is go back and forth adjusting the SIDE PIN DISTORTION, CORNER DISTORTION (W), and CORNER DISTORTION (S) trio of settings in the common distortion block (DA). Some adjustment to some of the others (maybe HORIZONTAL ARC DISTORTION?) may be needed. Also note that the equivalent deflection settings you change in the "setup menu" get saved on top of those in the "service menu", or in other words you can change them in one and they will remain constant on the other.

I've seen about 6-7 DT-V units of various usage levels and I did notice that most of them had a slight, not too noticeable horizontal stretch on the left ~1/5 column section of the raster, but never something very significant and on both sides, so I'd say it's likely you can get the linearity to look better.
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matt
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by matt »

ViraLicious wrote:I bought a JVC DT-V1710CG about two months ago and has since been fiddling with its geometry to get it as close to perfect or good enough as I can. However, there is an issue I’ve identified which I can’t seem to fix. All 240p content (and perhaps other resolutions as well, but less noticeable) seem to have a pinch effect in the center and bloating on the sides of the screen. As a result, when playing side scrollers, it creates a reverse fish eye lens - where content entering and exiting the frame gets stretched and pinched in the center. I’ve heard of this effect before, but never seen it until now.
I have no experience with DT-Vs specifically, so don't consider me an expert. I could be way off base here.

Having said that, what you're describing is bad horizontal linearity, which a problem inherent to all CRTs and is compensated for by something called the horizontal S-Correction capacitor (a large film cap in the deflection circuit). The value of the cap needs to be different based on scan rate, so you'll probably see different levels of distortion (or none at all) at various resolutions. There is something that can only be adjusted in hardware - you won't find a menu setting for it.

Multisync monitors typically have a few different sets of S-correction caps, and will switch between them based on what scan rate is detected. It's possible that your monitor isn't doing this properly. Either way, it would require a physical repair.
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Tempest_2084
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by Tempest_2084 »

So I've discovered that my TM-H1750G does this when you try and expand the horizontal size too far:
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I've been told that this can be fixed by adjusting a voltage knob on the inside of the monitor. Does anyone know if this has any adverse effects?
Namingway_PL
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by Namingway_PL »

@Tempest_2084 This doesn't look bad if You want to ask me. If You can't make it better by adjusting the settings, there isn't much You can do about it except for a recap.

Those monitors have over 15 years of age so a recap is always a good idea if You want to make it perfect (not needed yet imo).

As for the image shift with certain systems, just get used to it. It's normal.


As for the "thing" in Your last post, it's yet again standard stuff with the TM-H. Just adjust that pot and You will be good. All TM-H monitors do this, and this is not considered as an issue.
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@ViraLicious Have in mind that the DT-V has a flat screen, so it is pretty normal that the image will expand and loose a bit of sharpness at the edges, and is a bit cramped in the center.

Unfortunately the DT-V is very incisistent wirh this. On some, it can be barely noticable like on my DT-V1910CG, or really anoying like on some DT-V1710CG's that I had.

If it looks bad or uneven like in case where one side expands more than the other like @fernan1234 mentioned (I've seen that a few times too) or the image is tilted to one side, adjusting and re-seating the yoke might help. But it will always expand on the edges a bit as this how those screens were made.

On Your photo it doesn't look bad and looks even so I don't think You can do much about it, as there is no way to adjust horizontal linearity on the DT-V.


_____________

JVC monitors are quirky beasts and sometimes they can be a pain, but with all of my experience with diffrent brands of CRT monitors, I still prefer to use them over Sony monitors for various reasons. Definitely better than any Sony PVM, and not far behind the BVM (but still the JVC has some advantages over it).
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Tempest_2084
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Re: JVC TM-H and DT-V thread

Post by Tempest_2084 »

So it's safe to adjust that pot then? It's not going to cause other problems? Where is it located on the main board?
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