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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:13 pm 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 250
Guspaz wrote:
You're suggesting that I replace my entire setup with a much worse one (the Extron Crosspoint is much less capable. It doesn't do auto-switching at all, and has no luma/cvbs/etc sync support). I don't see how your completely manual "have to memorize which button is for each device"


If by "much less capable" you mean "prevents resolution changing blackouts" and by "have to memorize which button is for which device" you mean "I forgot labels existed", then I agree completely.

Also you should always use csync for scart because it has the highest quality anyways. Yes there is a bit of a learning curve in figuring out which cables to get for your scart consoles but as there are like 5 it shouldn't be that difficult to figure out.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:35 pm 


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Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 872
Guspaz wrote:
You're suggesting that I replace my entire setup with a much worse one (the Extron Crosspoint is much less capable. It doesn't do auto-switching at all, and has no luma/cvbs/etc sync support). I don't see how your completely manual "have to memorize which button is for each device" approach is somehow easier. I've put a lot of effort into getting a fully automatic switching setup, I don't see how going back to a primitive manual setup does not seem like an improvement. The fact that I currently need separate inputs for RGBS versus YPbPr is just because of issues with one particular device that I'll be addressing in the near future.

I honestly don't understand why people push the Crosspoints so hard. They're very expensive when you add all their custom cabling and phoenix connectors, they're fully manual, they're very restrictive, and from all the issues people complain about here, they seem to have many compatibility issues.


Well, there is an advantage to matrix switching. I use a Kramer matrix.

I can add and remove devices from the chain at will. I have an output for RGBHV, one converted to component, one converted to RGBsB, and one converted to HDMI. It's nice to boot the Dreamcast up and see it on all my screens at once--even an option of getting 480i or 240p down conversion for some displays.

That allows me to use any combination of displays for all my consoles. Definitely expensive, complex, and worth every bit of the trouble.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:43 pm 


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Joined: 25 May 2012
Posts: 214
orange808 wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
You're suggesting that I replace my entire setup with a much worse one (the Extron Crosspoint is much less capable. It doesn't do auto-switching at all, and has no luma/cvbs/etc sync support). I don't see how your completely manual "have to memorize which button is for each device" approach is somehow easier. I've put a lot of effort into getting a fully automatic switching setup, I don't see how going back to a primitive manual setup does not seem like an improvement. The fact that I currently need separate inputs for RGBS versus YPbPr is just because of issues with one particular device that I'll be addressing in the near future.

I honestly don't understand why people push the Crosspoints so hard. They're very expensive when you add all their custom cabling and phoenix connectors, they're fully manual, they're very restrictive, and from all the issues people complain about here, they seem to have many compatibility issues.


Well, there is an advantage to matrix switching. I use a Kramer matrix.

I can add and remove devices from the chain at will. I have an output for RGBHV, one converted to component, one converted to RGBsB, and one converted to HDMI. It's nice to boot the Dreamcast up and see it on all my screens at once--even an option of getting 480i or 240p down conversion for some displays.

That allows me to use any combination of displays for all my consoles. Definitely expensive, complex, and worth every bit of the trouble.


Right, I primarily use the OSSC+LCD monitor for playing, but I'd to get a nice little CRT at some point, like a Sony PVM. The extra outputs are also handy if you want to steer the signal to a different input on the same device, in my case the OSSC, assuming it supports it. It does take some money to get it all hooked up, but mine is nearly complete now and I'm very pleased how easy it is.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:49 pm 


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Posts: 555
Location: Indiana
I think we are trying to over think this.

Wolf, why not make a single VGA port. It has a much smaller footprint than bnc's and is easier to unplug etc.

So users that already have an existing GSCART will need a VGA to SCART apater (easy to make btw).
They can also get a VGA to BNC adapter if they would like to plug Component/Composite/Svideo etc.

I think if you make a good product people want, they will make the hookups work. Everybody has a different perfect ideal solution for themselves. I'm perfectly OK with having the OSSC style devices with one hookup. But I don't keep my OSSC plugged in all the time. I move it around on different TV's. Unplugging 5 bnc's every time isn't a deal breaker.

The majority of hookups on the OSSC are going to be scart. So what might be an even better option is Scart & VGA (VGA to bnc cable would be needed for component, composite/svideo)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:58 pm 


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Location: Montréal, Canada
Wolf_ wrote:
If by "much less capable" you mean "prevents resolution changing blackouts"


This problem does not exist, not with the gscartsw-lite, not with my previous Bandridge auto-switchers. Resolution changes on my PVM remain instant direct or via a switch, resolution changes on my projector take a few seconds direct or via a switch. In either case it is the display device that determines how long it takes, not the switches. Note that this is not necessarily the case with all switches, particularly HDMI switches.

Wolf_ wrote:
"have to memorize which button is for which device" you mean "I forgot labels existed", then I agree completely.


Yes, I could go through the effort of making tiny little labels for extron crosspoint input buttons, or I could just use a setup that does not require pushing buttons to switch inputs in the first palce. I chose to go for the convenient and out-of-the-way option, not the giant ugly inconvenient manual switch option.

Wolf_ wrote:
Also you should always use csync for scart because it has the highest quality anyways. Yes there is a bit of a learning curve in figuring out which cables to get for your scart consoles but as there are like 5 it shouldn't be that difficult to figure out.


This is false. There is no quality difference between csync and sync on luma (heck, there's no quality difference with sync-on-composite if you have shielded signal lines), and sync strippers add a slight delay that shifts the image over, making it harder to adjust displays.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:11 pm 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 250
Guspaz wrote:
Yes, I could go through the effort of making tiny little labels for extron crosspoint input buttons, or I could just use a setup that does not require pushing buttons to switch inputs in the first palce. I chose to go for the convenient and out-of-the-way option, not the giant ugly inconvenient manual switch option.

Wolf_ wrote:
Also you should always use csync for scart because it has the highest quality anyways. Yes there is a bit of a learning curve in figuring out which cables to get for your scart consoles but as there are like 5 it shouldn't be that difficult to figure out.


This is false. There is no quality difference between csync and sync on luma (heck, there's no quality difference with sync-on-composite if you have shielded signal lines), and sync strippers add a slight delay that shifts the image over, making it harder to adjust displays.


If labels are too complicated for you then I agree you should stick to auto-switchers.

And remember MyLifeInGaming? Yea they advise Csync because it has the highest quality.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:23 pm 


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Wolf_ wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
Yes, I could go through the effort of making tiny little labels for extron crosspoint input buttons, or I could just use a setup that does not require pushing buttons to switch inputs in the first palce. I chose to go for the convenient and out-of-the-way option, not the giant ugly inconvenient manual switch option.

Wolf_ wrote:
Also you should always use csync for scart because it has the highest quality anyways. Yes there is a bit of a learning curve in figuring out which cables to get for your scart consoles but as there are like 5 it shouldn't be that difficult to figure out.


This is false. There is no quality difference between csync and sync on luma (heck, there's no quality difference with sync-on-composite if you have shielded signal lines), and sync strippers add a slight delay that shifts the image over, making it harder to adjust displays.


If labels are too complicated for you then I agree you should stick to auto-switchers.

And remember MyLifeInGaming? Yea they advise Csync because it has the highest quality.


There's actually free software from Extron that lets you print labels out, works well for me.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:24 pm 


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The recommend it because it's the easiest way to simplify the entire situation down to a single statement. If you watch more of your videos, you'll see that they've also talked about how luma sync offers identical quality when they had to dive deeper into the subject, such as for the Sega Saturn (where sync-on-luma cables offer the broadest "it just works" compatibility) or the Sony Playstation (where it does not support csync at all). This is because the quality problems that people have with sync-on-composite are caused by interference with the composite video chroma signal coupling into the RGB lines. Luma sync does not have this problem because there is no composite video chroma signal to couple in, and individually shielded cables solve the problem too by preventing the crosstalk. A sync stripper can solve the problem, but only if it is placed in the console end of a cable. If you put the sync stripper on the output side of the cable, it's too late, the interference has already been caused.

More to the point, what do you think that a sync stripper does that is different than what a display does when it is given a non-csync signal?

The only reason to use exclusively csync is for compatibility with devices that can't handle anything but csync. This includes most Extron products, including the Crosspoint. Not just limited to the Crosspoint though: my Extron sync processor can turn many different types of sync into other types of sync (given RsGsBs, RGsB, RGBS, RGBHV input, it can output RGsB, RGBS, and RGBHV)... but it doesn't support anything but clean sync.

EDIT: This is not to say that you should not prefer the csync output if a console natively supports it, or can be modded to support it, because it is typically the most compatible and easiest to deal with signal. However, if there are no downstream compatibility issues, using luma sync directly is better than using a sync stripper, and using multicore coax cables is a better solution for sync-on-composite than putting an LM1881 in the cable.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:07 pm 


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Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
Wolf_ wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:
Also you should always use csync for scart because it has the highest quality anyways. Yes there is a bit of a learning curve in figuring out which cables to get for your scart consoles but as there are like 5 it shouldn't be that difficult to figure out.


This is false. There is no quality difference between csync and sync on luma (heck, there's no quality difference with sync-on-composite if you have shielded signal lines), and sync strippers add a slight delay that shifts the image over, making it harder to adjust displays.


And remember MyLifeInGaming? Yea they advise Csync because it has the highest quality.


This is such a gross simplification that it implies you don't understand the content. CSync has 2 independent properties that make it ideal for the most situations. But other configurations are just as good 99% of the time with a little homework.

1. CSync is the easiest signal for most devices to process. But sync on luma and sync on composite are both highly compatible. It's like the difference in listening to a song with a drum solo vs one with drums and vocals. The sync/drums are so glaringly different than the rest that any well-designed device should be able to distinguish them. So if none of your devices complain about sync on luma or sync on composite, there's no reason to change the signal.

2. Signals running along wires in a cable bundle interfere with each other. That is unless they're properly shielded. I believe CSync in an unshielded cable still interferes with the video signal. It just happens to do so at the edge of your screen where you won't notice.

I'm pretty sure the MLiG guys even mention that putting a sync stripper in the scart head is just for compatibility, not for quality. And you need to remember that their main goal is to dumb it down for the layman. I still learn new things each time I listen to the RGB master class.
_________________
Spoiler: show
  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
      • STV
      • F3
  • HDMI
    • OSSC
    • WiiU
    • Switch
    • XBox 360
    • PS3
    • PSTV


Last edited by DirkSwizzler on Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:09 pm 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 250
Guspaz wrote:
The recommend it because it's the easiest way to simplify the entire situation down to a single statement. If you watch more of your videos, you'll see that they've also talked about how luma sync offers identical quality when they had to dive deeper into the subject, such as for the Sega Saturn (where sync-on-luma cables offer the broadest "it just works" compatibility) or the Sony Playstation (where it does not support csync at all). This is because the quality problems that people have with sync-on-composite are caused by interference with the composite video chroma signal coupling into the RGB lines. Luma sync does not have this problem because there is no composite video chroma signal to couple in, and individually shielded cables solve the problem too by preventing the crosstalk. A sync stripper can solve the problem, but only if it is placed in the console end of a cable. If you put the sync stripper on the output side of the cable, it's too late, the interference has already been caused.

More to the point, what do you think that a sync stripper does that is different than what a display does when it is given a non-csync signal?

The only reason to use exclusively csync is for compatibility with devices that can't handle anything but csync. This includes most Extron products, including the Crosspoint. Not just limited to the Crosspoint though: my Extron sync processor can turn many different types of sync into other types of sync (given RsGsBs, RGsB, RGBS, RGBHV input, it can output RGsB, RGBS, and RGBHV)... but it doesn't support anything but clean sync.

EDIT: This is not to say that you should not prefer the csync output if a console natively supports it, or can be modded to support it, because it is typically the most compatible and easiest to deal with signal. However, if there are no downstream compatibility issues, using luma sync directly is better than using a sync stripper, and using multicore coax cables is a better solution for sync-on-composite than putting an LM1881 in the cable.


If you watched even more of their videos you would know that the Saturn csync issues were solved across the board and that RetroConsoleAccories now offers a single model of csync cable that is not model specific.

Why would she do that if it wasn't the best way? She is a professional cable maker after all and that sync type was recommended by MLiG who are... pros at all things gaming. So are you done blowing smoke yet?

Even if you were correct and csync offered no added quality over sync on luma then you have absolutely nothing to lose by running your consoles in csync through an extron. So even if what you were saying was factual (which it isn't) then it would serve no point to discredit the extron in favor of other switches.

Now I think we've gone back and forth on this enough and I don't want to derail the topic further just because one person is having a hard time letting go of his existing setup to let the ossc take a massive leap forward.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:45 pm 


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Wolf_, I'd take it down a notch. You're being obnoxious now.
Guspaz knows his shit, and I believe he's even one of the people that MLiG double-check their information with.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:00 pm 


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lol what "massive leap forward" would BNC connectors allow for?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:17 pm 


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Harrumph wrote:
Wolf_, I'd take it down a notch. You're being obnoxious now.
Guspaz knows his shit, and I believe he's even one of the people that MLiG double-check their information with.


I'd qualify that with, on these subjects (analog video) I only know what I've managed to absorb from experts, and the fact checking that I've done for MLiG has only been on a few videos where the subject was something that they knew I was familiar with. I've been wrong or uninformed plenty of times, the trick is that when you realize you're wrong, to try to learn more to understand why and how.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:55 pm 


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Location: Tokyo, Japan
Guspaz wrote:
I've been wrong or uninformed plenty of times, the trick is that when you realize you're wrong, to try to learn more to understand why and how.


I admire your honesty and have to admit I have a hard time backing down when I'm wrong. In those situations, I think it's best just to leave the conversation rather than tilt at windmills. If only we could make following this creed a requirement for forum posters...


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:15 am 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 250
Harrumph wrote:
Wolf_, I'd take it down a notch. You're being obnoxious now.
Guspaz knows his shit, and I believe he's even one of the people that MLiG double-check their information with.

>Tells me to take it down after I've left the conversation
...useful post.

schadenfreude wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
I've been wrong or uninformed plenty of times, the trick is that when you realize you're wrong, to try to learn more to understand why and how.


I admire your honesty and have to admit I have a hard time backing down when I'm wrong. In those situations, I think it's best just to leave the conversation rather than tilt at windmills. If only we could make following this creed a requirement for forum posters...

"Oh boy I sure wish people wouldn't continue arguments needlessly" -Comment made after conversation is over thus continuing it. You're bright.

bobrocks95 wrote:
lol what "massive leap forward" would BNC connectors allow for?

Try reading my post where I suggested it. My bet would be that is where I talk about how useful it is.


Anyways seens how I'm posting again I'll at least make it productive in addition to schooling 3 people:
I heard the ossc doesn't remember syncs so it would be nice if it could have preset profiles like "okay this is rgbs in 480p so run it in line x mode" or "okay this is 480i so do this" so that way just using a console with it would automatically start the video in your preferred resolution/settings.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:52 am 


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I went back and read your post. No feature you mentioned was directly tied to the connector being BNC, other than it working with your switch without an adapter. A big win for everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:10 am 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 250
bobrocks95 wrote:
I went back and read your post. No feature you mentioned was directly tied to the connector being BNC, other than it working with your switch without an adapter. A big win for everyone.

Evidently you lack both observation and reading comprehension skills so I'll reiterate and hopefully you will be able to understand it this time:
Bnc would allow for standards not currently supported by the ossc to be interfaced with it, such as s-video.
In addition it would cut down on the types of connectors needed on the board leaving room for other stuff like a hdmi input and 2 spdif inputs for lagless hdmi upscaling and the best audio output from the xbox and ps2.

The only downside being that bnc versions of the scart cables are twice as expensive, but that is made up for by the fact that if you are using switches the cheapest quality bnc switch costs $50 including shipping. (And if you want to go more expensive than extron there are other options)
Also SuperG hasn't finished his ps2 rgbs cable yet but realistically that won't be a problem because if this goes into production then it would take awhile to come out anyways. And then you just plug it in and go.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:10 am 


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Wolf_ wrote:
Bnc would allow for standards not currently supported by the ossc to be interfaced with it, such as s-video.

No, the firmware would need to change for that to happen. It's literally the same as plugging into the component ports.

In fact, here you go: https://smile.amazon.com/VCE-5-PACK-Pla ... B01N20F61M

You're all set.
_________________
Spoiler: show
  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
      • STV
      • F3
  • HDMI
    • OSSC
    • WiiU
    • Switch
    • XBox 360
    • PS3
    • PSTV


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:14 am 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 250
DirkSwizzler wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:
Bnc would allow for standards not currently supported by the ossc to be interfaced with it, such as s-video.

No, the firmware would need to change for that to happen. It's literally the same as plugging into the component ports.

In fact, here you go: https://smile.amazon.com/VCE-5-PACK-Pla ... B01N20F61M

You're all set.


Yes the firmware would need to change, but it makes the connection simpler/possible and unlocks a lot more potential future functionality.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:23 am 


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Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
Wolf_ wrote:
Yes the firmware would need to change, but it makes the connection simpler/possible and unlocks a lot more potential future functionality.


Great. Amazon has plenty of those connectors. You're welcome.
_________________
Spoiler: show
  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
      • STV
      • F3
  • HDMI
    • OSSC
    • WiiU
    • Switch
    • XBox 360
    • PS3
    • PSTV


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:30 am 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 250
DirkSwizzler wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:
Yes the firmware would need to change, but it makes the connection simpler/possible and unlocks a lot more potential future functionality.


Great. Amazon has plenty of those connectors. You're welcome.


That's not how that works. For starters there are only 3 rca video inputs for component and you need up to 5 inputs for bnc to be universal and also some inputs on the ossc like the scart input only accept scart and won't accept s-video via an s-video to scart adapter. So no, you're welcome. (For the free education)

It is so much simpler and just common sense to use a single universal input and have it accept everything and clean up the i/o.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:41 am 


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Wolf_ wrote:
That's not how that works. For starters there are only 3 rca video inputs for component and you need up to 5 inputs for bnc to be universal and also some inputs on the ossc like the scart input only accept scart and won't accept s-video via an s-video to scart adapter. So no, you're welcome. (For the free education)

It is so much simpler and just common sense to use a single universal input and have it accept everything and clean up the i/o.

You've got at least 3 color pins + 1 sync pin wired up on the scart port for sure. +3 RCA. That's 7.

7 > 5

It's really not that hard.

And if you're proposing it be universal. That would also be SCART, YPbPr, or JP21. The only RGBHV console I can even think of is the Dreamcast with an adapter box. How is a 1-off universal?
_________________
Spoiler: show
  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
      • STV
      • F3
  • HDMI
    • OSSC
    • WiiU
    • Switch
    • XBox 360
    • PS3
    • PSTV


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:46 am 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 250
DirkSwizzler wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:
That's not how that works. For starters there are only 3 rca video inputs for component and you need up to 5 inputs for bnc to be universal and also some inputs on the ossc like the scart input only accept scart and won't accept s-video via an s-video to scart adapter. So no, you're welcome. (For the free education)

It is so much simpler and just common sense to use a single universal input and have it accept everything and clean up the i/o.

You've got at least 3 color pins + 1 sync pin wired up on the scart port for sure. +3 RCA. That's 7.

7 > 5

It's really not that hard.

And if you're proposing it be universal. That would also be SCART, YPbPr, or JP21. The only RGBHV console I can even think of is the Dreamcast with an adapter box. How is a 1-off universal?


Every analogue video standard can be passively adapted to bnc. That's how universal works.
And why the hell would 3 rca inputs + a scart sync input make more sense than 5 bnc plugs?

You're being stupid. No one is going to plug one input into two different connector types and the ossc would probably need a firmware upgrade just to interact with that. I'm done with this conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:52 am 


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Wolf_ wrote:
And why the hell would 3 rca inputs + a scart ... input make more sense than 5 bnc plugs?


Because it's literally what every console outputs.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:56 am 



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DirkSwizzler wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:
And why the hell would 3 rca inputs + a scart ... input make more sense than 5 bnc plugs?


Because it's literally what every console outputs.

No console has an output that is made up of a scart connector and 3 rca plugs. That cable doesn't even exist. What you are suggesting would require new cables to be made for everything. It is so much more complicated than bnc it is ridiculous. You've gotta be trolling because I don't believe anyone can be that stupid. Anyways now that I've corrected your blatant misinformation I'm done.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:00 am 


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Wolf_ wrote:
DirkSwizzler wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:
And why the hell would 3 rca inputs + a scart ... input make more sense than 5 bnc plugs?


Because it's literally what every console outputs.

I will always have the last word.


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_________________
Spoiler: show
  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
      • STV
      • F3
  • HDMI
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    • Switch
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:16 am 


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Wolf_ wrote:
DirkSwizzler wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:
Yes the firmware would need to change, but it makes the connection simpler/possible and unlocks a lot more potential future functionality.


Great. Amazon has plenty of those connectors. You're welcome.


That's not how that works. For starters there are only 3 rca video inputs for component and you need up to 5 inputs for bnc to be universal and also some inputs on the ossc like the scart input only accept scart and won't accept s-video via an s-video to scart adapter. So no, you're welcome. (For the free education)

It is so much simpler and just common sense to use a single universal input and have it accept everything and clean up the i/o.


The OSSC not auto-detecting sync types: different sync types are essentially treated as different inputs. Marqs has indicated that the OSSC could try to auto-detect by cycling through the types and trying to see which gets a sync, but there are potential issues with that, and it wouldn't be able to tell RGsB and YPbPr apart because they look identical from a signal standpoint. Profiles aren't automatic either, there is unfortunately no good universal solution.

Extron devices with five BNC inputs do auto-detect sync to a certain extent, but they're limited to three modes: they detect which cables are physically connected (by measuring impedance, IIRC). By this they can tell if there are five wires connected (RGBHV), four wires (RGBS) or three wires (RGsB/YPbPr). You'll note that it still can't tell RGsB and YPbPr apart, but for the Extron SC-210 that I've got, it doesn't matter, because it can process them the same because it's just a sync processor.

Having separate BNC connectors wouldn't necessarily help the OSSC auto-detect sync. The impedence check that the Extron does isn't quite enough, and it could do the same thing on a SCART connector by checking which pins are wired up. Like I said, ultimately there isn't any good universal solution.

Now, in terms of composite video and S-Video, it's important to understand why the OSSC doesn't support them, which has nothing to do with the type of connector. In fact, the OSSC supports more or less the same signal types on each input (even YPbPr via the VGA input). The thing is, every signal type the OSSC supports is basically the same type, with the sync method being the only difference. They're all RGB of some sort, and YPbPr is the same as RGB from an electrical standpoint. The reason the OSSC doesn't support composite and s-video is because those require an NTSC (or PAL) decoder. Basically, with RGB, it's straightforward voltage levels for different signal intensities. But for composite and s-video, the chroma (colour) is encoded into a single signal, and needs to be decoded. The OSSC doesn't have such a decoder.

In other words, having five BNC connectors wouldn't be any more universal because the limitation is in the processing, not the physical connection. I believe the plan for the Wolf edition is to support NTSC/PAL decoders on a daughterboard, but having that, composite and s-video to SCART adapters would work just as well as five BNC connectors. That's why I think it would be ideal for the input connectors to be on a daughterboard, because then you could use SCART, or BNC, or whatever you want. For composite and s-video, it would actually make more sense to have a daughterboard with actual composite and s-video connectors on it, because you could put the NTSC/PAL decoder chip on the same daughterboard.


Last edited by Guspaz on Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:17 am 



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Wolf_ wrote:
If you watched even more of their videos you would know that the Saturn csync issues were solved across the board and that RetroConsoleAccories now offers a single model of csync cable that is not model specific.
You cannot use a Csync cable on an euro Saturn. But you can use a Sync-on-Luma cable on any saturn.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:28 am 


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It's possible that the cable he's referring to is using sync-on-luma combined with a sync stripper, but as I've said, that's pointless except in the case of compatibility reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:33 am 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
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Guspaz wrote:
The OSSC not auto-detecting sync types: different sync types are essentially treated as different inputs. Marqs has indicated that the OSSC could try to auto-detect by cycling through the types and trying to see which gets a sync, but there are potential issues with that, and it wouldn't be able to tell RGsB and YPbPr apart because they look identical from a signal standpoint. Profiles aren't automatic either, there is unfortunately no good universal solution.

Extron devices with five BNC inputs do auto-detect sync to a certain extent, but they're limited to three modes: they detect which cables are physically connected (by measuring impedance, IIRC). By this they can tell if there are five wires connected (RGBHV), four wires (RGBS) or three wires (RGsB/YPbPr). You'll note that it still can't tell RGsB and YPbPr apart, but for the Extron SC-210 that I've got, it doesn't matter, because it can process them the same because it's just a sync processor.

Having separate BNC connectors wouldn't necessarily help the OSSC auto-detect sync. The impedence check that the Extron does isn't quite enough, and it could do the same thing on a SCART connector by checking which pins are wired up. Like I said, ultimately there isn't any good universal solution.

Now, in terms of composite video and S-Video, it's important to understand why the OSSC doesn't support them, which has nothing to do with the type of connector. In fact, the OSSC supports more or less the same signal types on each input (even YPbPr via the VGA input). The thing is, every signal type the OSSC supports is basically the same type, with the sync method being the only difference. They're all RGB of some sort, and YPbPr is the same as RGB from an electrical standpoint. The reason the OSSC doesn't support composite and s-video is because those require an NTSC (or PAL) decoder. Basically, with RGB, it's straightforward voltage levels for different signal intensities. But for composite and s-video, the chroma (colour) is encoded into a single signal, and needs to be decoded. The OSSC doesn't have such a decoder.

In other words, having five BNC connectors wouldn't be any more universal because the limitation is in the processing, not the physical connection. I believe the plan for the Wolf edition is to support NTSC/PAL decoders on a daughterboard, but having that, composite and s-video to SCART adapters would work just as well as five BNC connectors. That's why I think it would be ideal for the input connectors to be on a daughterboard, because then you could use SCART, or BNC, or whatever you want. For composite and s-video, it would actually make more sense to have a daughterboard with actual composite and s-video connectors on it, because you could put the NTSC/PAL decoder chip on the same daughterboard.


Yes the firmware and maybe even some processing hardware would need to be updated. And as long as the connectors are on a daughterboard(s?) then there is no problem with letting people pick whatever they want. While it doesn't matter if people can pick what they want the best way to do this is still bnc though because if you are going to route a bunch of different types of cables through a single switch a bnc switch is just going to be the way to do it. As long as the option exists I don't care if other people want to do it a different way. I just hope it doesn't look like a monstrosity with daughterboards for hdmi, spdif, and bnc on it.

Ryoandr wrote:
You cannot use a Csync cable on an euro Saturn. But you can use a Sync-on-Luma cable on any saturn.

I honestly don't think that matters. That is a single small region of a console that has perfectly fine versions in regions that do work. I can't think of a single reason to specifically need a euro saturn.


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