OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI

[Wolf_]

it can still digitize 720p and above signals (from analog sources). but it's curious on why you would actually need something that scales or line doubles 720p and above content. most consumer televisions and monitors these days do a pretty good job scaling from those resolutions with little to no input lag. could you describe a scenario that isn't covered under normal circumstances?

there are some technical ways to directly tap into the pure digital signal of videogame systems but they're expensive and mostly impractical. (currently the most cost effective option is probably cycle accurate emulation)

Wherever possible I've done that. Jailbroken nt mini for all the systems it covers, modded n64, akura box for my dreamcast (and I'll have that modded when that gets finished), and ordered a gc video x or whatever badassconsoles is calling his plug and play hdmi gamecube mod that is no longer a mod.

As for why I would want a 0 lag linedoubler to do the upscaling and not my 4k display I have several reasons:
1) The near 0 latency of linedoubling is either going to be faster or in the worst case scenario the same speed as my display when it comes to upscaling.
2) The greater control. With the ossc you know exactly what you are changing your resolution to. If you want it bigger than can be displayed that's fine, if you want it smaller that is also fine. And most importantly you prevent pixel rounding and the nightmares that come with it.
3) The ossc also converts so it is just simpler having a single device that solves all my problems.

If I'm going to switch from the framemeister it would need to at least be able to convert everything to digital, let me control the overscan areas (or underscan? size), and at least get every signal to 1080p, preferably with less lag and ideally to 4k. I suppose I could use it to get everything to 720p which would be a direct integer into 4k (unlike 1080p) to avoid pixel rounding but that is still less than ideal.

I think my main reason would have to be that I'm frustrated nothing just does exactly what I want it to without compromising and when it comes to picking out which compromises are better or worse nothing really stands out to me so I'm left with two options that both bother me for different reasons.

[Blair]

akura box for my dreamcast

Well that's another area where the OSSC would be preferable as you get some resolution loss when using the akura (since it incorrectly samples the signal as 640x480 when the Dreamcast's actual output is 720x480, OSSC is one of the few devices in the world that can actually sample the Dreamcast correctly)

ordered a gc video x or whatever badassconsoles is calling his plug and play hdmi gamecube mod that is no longer a mod.

There's actually another GC video device (by Zeldaxpro) you might be interested in, it's currently available and being produced unlike whatever's going on with badassconsoles. (https://zzblogs.wixsite.com/home/single-post/pnpgc2)


regardless of your display it will always have a minimum latency, some 4K displays will have really bad latency numbers with anything under 4K resolutions so that's something to watch out for. But it seems to be getting better where the displays game mode will have the same minimum input lag across the board. So at that point it doesn't really matter.

since you're already using the frame Meister, I would say that the OSSC still has enough unique strengths to make it worth an investment. especially since any processing done by the frame Meister is still adding an additional two frames or more of input lag on top of whatever the baseline lag is of your current display.

you also have to remember that a lot of game engines these days also have their own internal input lag. for instance call of duty has somewhere around 47ms of input lag well battlefield usually has around 80ms to over 90ms of input lag. and that's already on top of your displays own input lag and any processor you add into the chain. (you could easily achieve a worst-case scenario of over 200ms of input lag in a modern gaming session)

[Wolf_]

akura box for my dreamcast

Well that's another area where the OSSC would be preferable as you get some resolution loss when using the akura (since it incorrectly samples the signal as 640x480 when the Dreamcast's actual output is 720x480, OSSC is one of the few devices in the world that can actually sample the Dreamcast correctly)

ordered a gc video x or whatever badassconsoles is calling his plug and play hdmi gamecube mod that is no longer a mod.

There's actually another GC video device you might be interested in, it's currently available and being produced unlike whatever's going on with badassconsoles.


Well regardless of your display it will always have a minimum latency, some 4K displays will have really bad latency numbers with anything under 4K resolutions so that's something to watch out for. But it seems to be getting better where the displays game mode will have the same minimum input lag across the board. So at that point it doesn't really matter.

since you're already using the frame Meister, I would say that the OSSC still has enough unique strengths to make it worth an investment. especially since any processing done by the frame Meister is still adding additional two frames of lag on top of whatever the baseline lag is of your current display.

My display is a 40" wasabi mango so it adds near zero lag but I still don't want to deal with the headaches of having it upscale things incorrectly. And 2 frames of lag is the choice I've made to deal with. I prefer this over near 0 from the ossc because 2 frames of lag is a constant slight annoyance and the ossc just flat out doesn't work with some stuff, like accepting audio (until just recently), synch standardization so displays will accept the hdmi signal, working with 720p and 1080i content, working with content that's already hdmi (without degrading the content into analogue video), ect.

Basically the xrgb mini has one small problem that constantly annoys me and the ossc has many issues that either work or do not work so when I decided what to invest in I went with the thing that would at least function. Not to mention the xrgb mini was currently in stock vs the ossc which I wouldn't be able to get for about 6 months if I wanted it.

I think v2 will be polished enough that it will be worth picking up though. I'll just have to fight my way through everyone that wants an ossc but hasn't been able to get it yet, as well as everyone that wants to upgrade...

[Blair]

fair enough, although since it's a 4K display (correct me if I'm wrong) it's still upscaling the 1080p frame Meister signal to 4K. so your display still has to do some of the work. (do you know what type of upscaling technique it uses?). also, aren't those things just basically big PC monitors? sounds like something that would have good luck with the OSSC. (a lot of my devices have better compatibility now since the most recent firmware upgrade)

[Wolf_]

fair enough, although since it's a 4K display (correct me if I'm wrong) it's still upscaling the 1080p frame Meister signal to 4K. so your display still has to do some of the work. (do you know what type of upscaling technique it uses?). also, aren't those things just basically big PC monitors? sounds like something that would have good luck with the OSSC. (a lot of my devices have better compatibility now since the most recent firmware upgrade)

I'm of the belief that having two screens because one is a "tv" and one is a "monitor" is just marketing to sell more displays. Might as well just have a large monitor because it is the more accepting of the two. And yea I've been thinking about switching to the 720p profiles so that it upscales directly into 4k and won't have pixel rounding. The ossc would work with a lot of stuff but it flat out wouldn't do a thing with my cdi player and I spent a small fortune on zelda and mario games so by god I intend to pretend I may one day play them.

I'm also reworking my audio setup to go directly to an av receiver so that isn't an issue anymore.

But the main reason I didn't get an ossc to start with (other than that I couldn't if I freaking wanted to) was that with all these problems it just felt like an unfinished product to me and I would rather be playing games than dealing with getting them to work. I'll wait for the next generation (or ossc wolf) and hope it smooths out some of the issues of the first.

Anyways I think we've sorta derailed the topic a bit at this stage.

[becker]

I have been working on the Wolf edition every day for a few weeks. I wake up at 5am to work on it before my day job. The project is alive and well.
For a long time I was unable to see the forest through the trees. I was focused on having a larger FPGA so there were more pins for trying out additional chips. Months were spent making the schematics since I was not working on it very often. It was going to have the three main chips (Video encoder, FPGA, HDMI TX) on a motherboard and the connectors and extra IC were on a daughter board. When I finally brought it into layout I realized that the larger FPGA was unnecessary if I rearranged how the motherboard and daughter board are split up. It seems so simple now but it was not obvious because I was focused on using the larger BGA FPGA.
Now the motherboard has the original OSSC size FPGA and HDMI TX. The video encoder is moved to the daughter board. The two boards are connected by a PCIE cardedge connector. This simple change makes the video encoder swappable so a composite IC can be tried without doing a full new board. The idea is to have many daughter boards that offer different purposes for the OSSC. I am pushing hard to finish the schematic. I keep bringing it into layout to make sure the traces break out cleanly.

[Blair]

The idea is to have many daughter boards that offer different purposes for the OSSC

exciting, an OSSC with modules definitely seems like a cool idea.

[Wolf_]

I had a thought for an alternative version of the ossc.

What if it just had a single analogue input? If one side had 5 bnc ports that would allow for every type of analogue video (rf, composite, s-video, component, scart, vga, ect) in existence to be easily adapted and run through the ossc.

Using a bnc switch that would easily enable people that don't want to unplug and replug things to have everything run through a single input. Not to mention amazing quality bnc switches like extron crosspoints go for about $50 on ebay.

And for the cost saving people out there that don't mind unplugging and replugging cables rf and rca to bnc adapters cost nothing and s-video, scart, and vga to bnc adapters cost like $10 each. So ~$40 would allow you to plug everything in existence into this thing and most people probably just have scart and component and maybe s-video.

So 5 bnc connectors and either rca or 3.5mm stereo in on one side and then you could go ham and have an entire side for a hdmi input and maybe a spdif input (or 2 so you could use the ps2 and xbox with the best quality audio as spdif switches suck and don't autodetect).

From there other improvements would be getting the ossc to accept the new video standards that you can now connect to it (like rf and s-video) and maybe improving the fpga so it can linedouble 1080i xbox games over component. As 4k over a fpga isn't really cost effective yet maybe a more feasible jump would be to 2k(2048×1080) for now which would be relatively simple for 4k displays to upscale and 2k displays are totally a thing.

[Guspaz]

That wouldn't work with how I use my OSSC, where right now the output of a component switch goes into the OSSC component inputs, and the output of a scart switch goes into the scart inputs. That said, my current setup isn't how I actually want it, it's just that I need to get a working YPbPr-to-RGBS converter to fix it.

Basically, in order to be more flexible in the types of inputs supported, you would reduce support to a single device at a time, and personally I'm not interested in unplugging and replugging the video cables constantly.

It would also require additional adapters for things that don't normally require adapters. You could no longer use the component cables or VGA cables that came with or you bought for your console, you would need to buy additional RCA-to-BNC and VGA-to-BNC adapters.

Are you proposing support for an NTSC decoder for RF/composite/s-video?

[Xyga]

A yokotate-dedicated OSSC would definitely sell...but only to shmuppers I'm afraid.

[Wolf_]

That wouldn't work with how I use my OSSC, where right now the output of a component switch goes into the OSSC component inputs, and the output of a scart switch goes into the scart inputs. That said, my current setup isn't how I actually want it, it's just that I need to get a working YPbPr-to-RGBS converter to fix it.

Basically, in order to be more flexible in the types of inputs supported, you would reduce support to a single device at a time, and personally I'm not interested in unplugging and replugging the video cables constantly.

It would also require additional adapters for things that don't normally require adapters. You could no longer use the component cables or VGA cables that came with or you bought for your console, you would need to buy additional RCA-to-BNC and VGA-to-BNC adapters.

Are you proposing support for an NTSC decoder for RF/composite/s-video?

All your setup would take is a 2 input bnc switch to fix. One for your component switch and one for your scart switch. Bam done. Or just run all your scart and component sources through a $50 extron crosspoint for a single switch solution. Done.

[becker]

I have not come across a video encoder integrated circuit that handles RF. The lowest quality signal I see handled is composite CBVS yellow RCA.

A BNC daughter card is probably possible. I am trying to design this to be flexible so people could make their own versions of the connector inputs and video encoder section. Time and money can be saved by not recreating the 70% of the board that does not change between variations.

This idea started out as a time and money saver for development purposes. It has grown on me and and I feel it can be useful for the end user too. I hope a modular design will lower the bar to entry so more people will contribute to the OSSC project.

[Wolf_]

I have not come across a video encoder integrated circuit that handles RF. The lowest quality signal I see handled is composite CBVS yellow RCA.

A BNC daughter card is probably possible. I am trying to design this to be flexible so people could make their own versions of the connector inputs and video encoder section. Time and money can be saved by not recreating the 70% of the board that does not change between variations.

This idea started out as a time and money saver for development purposes. It has grown on me and and I feel it can be useful for the end user too. I hope a modular design will lower the bar to entry so more people will contribute to the OSSC project.

A bnc daughter board would be amazing. With RGBHV inputs and the ability for it to detect what sync was input... a single cheap extron crosspoint would immediately have any gamer set for life.

[Guspaz]

All your setup would take is a 2 input bnc switch to fix. One for your component switch and one for your scart switch. Bam done. Or just run all your scart and component sources through a $50 extron crosspoint for a single switch solution. Done.

So in order to avoid paying for an extra input on the OSSC, I would need to buy an RGBS 2-input BNC switch (which I've never seen outside of Extron crosspoint which are expensive to ship and may also require sync strippers) possibly with audio, a SCART-to-BNC adapter, four RCA-to-BNC adapters, and a 4BNC-to-4BNC cable... That is a whole rats nest of extra components to save a few bucks on an extra input on the OSSC, it would actually cost far more than the second input on the OSSC.

Here is the estimated cost (and this completely ignores audio):

Extron Crosspoint (cheapest price on eBay currently): CAD$83.25 shipped
4x RCA-to-BNC adapters: CAD$5.93 shipped
4BNC-to-4BNC: CAD$20.22
SCART-to-BNC cable from RGC: CAD$39.59 shipped
Import tax on RGC cable (20% chance of being applied): CAD$15.94
Total: CAD$164.93

So to save the cost of an extra OSSC input would cost $164.93 in extra cables and switches.

[Wolf_]

All your setup would take is a 2 input bnc switch to fix. One for your component switch and one for your scart switch. Bam done. Or just run all your scart and component sources through a $50 extron crosspoint for a single switch solution. Done.

So in order to avoid paying for an extra input on the OSSC, I would need to buy an RGBS 2-input BNC switch (which I've never seen outside of Extron crosspoint which are expensive to ship and may also require sync strippers) possibly with audio, a SCART-to-BNC adapter, four RCA-to-BNC adapters, and a 4BNC-to-4BNC cable... That is a whole rats nest of extra components to save a few bucks on an extra input on the OSSC, it would actually cost far more than the second input on the OSSC.

Mine cost me $50 shipped on ebay.
and you can use the cables you have now and just buy adapters to bnc if you want. Vga and scart adapters cost $10 each and rca adapters for component video cost next to nothing. Then you can sell your existing switches and you'll probably break even. And have the added simplicity of only having 1 analogue switch. Bam problems solved. Simple if you think about it.

[Guspaz]

All your setup would take is a 2 input bnc switch to fix. One for your component switch and one for your scart switch. Bam done. Or just run all your scart and component sources through a $50 extron crosspoint for a single switch solution. Done.

So in order to avoid paying for an extra input on the OSSC, I would need to buy an RGBS 2-input BNC switch (which I've never seen outside of Extron crosspoint which are expensive to ship and may also require sync strippers) possibly with audio, a SCART-to-BNC adapter, four RCA-to-BNC adapters, and a 4BNC-to-4BNC cable... That is a whole rats nest of extra components to save a few bucks on an extra input on the OSSC, it would actually cost far more than the second input on the OSSC.

Mine cost me $50 shipped on ebay.
and you can use the cables you have now and just buy adapters to bnc if you want. Vga and scart adapters cost $10 each and rca adapters for component video cost next to nothing. Then you can sell your existing switches and you'll probably break even. And have the added simplicity of only having 1 analogue switch. Bam problems solved. Simple if you think about it.

You don't live in Canada. See my edit to the post, the cables required for your proposed solution would cost me CAD$164.93. And why would I sell my existing switches? None of the new stuff would be able to replace any of my existing switches, nor would I want to do so, because I don't want an Extron switch, they're a finicky pain in the neck.

[Wolf_]

So in order to avoid paying for an extra input on the OSSC, I would need to buy an RGBS 2-input BNC switch (which I've never seen outside of Extron crosspoint which are expensive to ship and may also require sync strippers) possibly with audio, a SCART-to-BNC adapter, four RCA-to-BNC adapters, and a 4BNC-to-4BNC cable... That is a whole rats nest of extra components to save a few bucks on an extra input on the OSSC, it would actually cost far more than the second input on the OSSC.

Mine cost me $50 shipped on ebay.
and you can use the cables you have now and just buy adapters to bnc if you want. Vga and scart adapters cost $10 each and rca adapters for component video cost next to nothing. Then you can sell your existing switches and you'll probably break even. And have the added simplicity of only having 1 analogue switch. Bam problems solved. Simple if you think about it.

You don't live in Canada. See my edit to the post, the cables required for your proposed solution would cost me CAD$164.93. And why would I sell my existing switches? None of the new stuff would be able to replace any of my existing switches, nor would I want to do so, because I don't want an Extron switch, they're a finicky pain in the neck.

Wait for a better price on the extron and you'll knock $30 off the top of that.

And why would you want to use a switch into another switch with enough inputs to just use that one? You're being silly. As for finnicky this is the first I've heard about them. MLIG swears by them and I trust them a lot more than you.

[Guspaz]

Good for you. I'm happy with the gscartsw-lite and gcompsw (and you'll note the MLiG guys also have a ton of gscartsw and gcompsw too), and I'm not interested in getting an Extron Crosspoint. They're expensive to ship ($20 alone in shipping, plus potential import duties), they take up a ton of room, they require expensive adapters for audio, they require all new custom cabling to get console-to-bnc cables, they would require sync strippers for all non-csync consoles because they only support csync, they don't support auto-switching like my current switches, and I've seen plenty of reports here of compatibility issues with Extron Crosspoint switches where people say "my stuff works fine connected directly to the display but when I go through a crosspoint I get this or that video issue".

The $164 cost was just to *add* a crosspoint, which would just be to work around an OSSC that only had a single video input (as was proposed here). Replacing all switches with the Crosspoint would cost hundreds of dollars more in new cables for an arguably less capable switching solution that has a bunch of extra restrictions. No thanks.

It would seem to me that this could also be solved by a daughterboard that had two inputs on it.

[pyrotek85]

Yeah I'm personally happy with my Crosspoint but you seem to already be set up with switches, so there's not much to gain for you to get one.

[nmalinoski]

I had a thought for an alternative version of the ossc.

What if it just had a single analogue input? If one side had 5 bnc ports that would allow for every type of analogue video (rf, composite, s-video, component, scart, vga, ect) in existence to be easily adapted and run through the ossc.

Using a bnc switch that would easily enable people that don't want to unplug and replug things to have everything run through a single input. Not to mention amazing quality bnc switches like extron crosspoints go for about $50 on ebay.

And for the cost saving people out there that don't mind unplugging and replugging cables rf and rca to bnc adapters cost nothing and s-video, scart, and vga to bnc adapters cost like $10 each. So ~$40 would allow you to plug everything in existence into this thing and most people probably just have scart and component and maybe s-video.

So 5 bnc connectors and either rca or 3.5mm stereo in on one side and then you could go ham and have an entire side for a hdmi input and maybe a spdif input (or 2 so you could use the ps2 and xbox with the best quality audio as spdif switches suck and don't autodetect).

From there other improvements would be getting the ossc to accept the new video standards that you can now connect to it (like rf and s-video) and maybe improving the fpga so it can linedouble 1080i xbox games over component. As 4k over a fpga isn't really cost effective yet maybe a more feasible jump would be to 2k(2048×1080) for now which would be relatively simple for 4k displays to upscale and 2k displays are totally a thing.

Personally, I like the idea of this sort of universal input; it's one of the features that attracted me to Extron's System 7SC, which has five or six of these things in 2x3 BNC blocks, and you can configure each individually to any of CVBS, YC, YPbPr, RGsB, RsGsBs, RGBS, or RGBHV. (I would've gotten one of these if they recognized 240p or the scaler could be turned off.)

BNC wouldn't be necessary for this sort of input; RCA would work just as well, and wouldn't require users/customers with their original composite or component cables to go out and buy adapters. That said, BNC would have the edge with S-Video, because I don't think female S-Video to 2x male RCA adapters are as available as their S-Video to BNC counterparts.

I think the biggest downside of a universal input on the OSSC would be the lack of a good selection of multiformat switchers. Really, we only have the CrossPoints (And perhaps some other Extron or Kramer units), which won't work for anyone who wants automatic switching or TOSLINK support. Plus, the RCA->Phoenix adapters aren't exactly cheap, new ones are a tad difficult (and probably as expensive) for an individual to get, and the aforementioned TTL vs 75Ω issue.

So, unless there's an option of a killer automatic switch--with an array of 5 RCA/BNC (video) + 2 RCA (Audio) + 1 TOSLINK inputs, one or two matching outputs, and possibly also button overrides--to go with this universal input, I think having discrete inputs on the OSSC for each connector type would be more useful to more people; discrete switches for CVBS/S-Video, Component, VGA, and SCART are simply more available.


It also doesn't help that the OSSC doesn't do automatic video format detection. If the OSSC can detect which lines have any signal and which lines have a sync signal, then it should be doable. A sticking point might be determining between RGsB and YPbPr, but that should be possible if the OSSC can check the voltage on the B/Pb and R/Pr lines during the sync tip; I believe <=54mV is RGsB, and ~350mV is YPbPr. I posted about this on the VideoGamePerfection forum a couple days ago, but I've yet to be confirmed or corrected.

[Wolf_]

Good for you. I'm happy with the gscartsw-lite and gcompsw (and you'll note the MLiG guys also have a ton of gscartsw and gcompsw too), and I'm not interested in getting an Extron Crosspoint. They're expensive to ship ($20 alone in shipping, plus potential import duties), they take up a ton of room, they require expensive adapters for audio, they require all new custom cabling to get console-to-bnc cables, they would require sync strippers for all non-csync consoles because they only support csync, they don't support auto-switching like my current switches, and I've seen plenty of reports here of compatibility issues with Extron Crosspoint switches where people say "my stuff works fine connected directly to the display but when I go through a crosspoint I get this or that video issue".

The $164 cost was just to *add* a crosspoint, which would just be to work around an OSSC that only had a single video input (as was proposed here). Replacing all switches with the Crosspoint would cost hundreds of dollars more in new cables for an arguably less capable switching solution that has a bunch of extra restrictions. No thanks.

It would seem to me that this could also be solved by a daughterboard that had two inputs on it.

Yes the cables are expensive, but that's the compensation for the switch costing $30 + shipping. If you want to have multiple unnecessary switches and refuse to do your budget any other way I can't help you because you've sabotaged yourself. And the gscart and gcomp switches are not perfect. They are not manual like the extron so have fun playing games with resolution changes in them and waiting for them to re-detect the same channel they were on previously every time. Also the gscart doesn't detect ps2 and the lite doesn't even have the port 8 "use if no other channel is detected" feature. As for problems other people are having my bet is they don't know what they are doing. Also the crosspoints detect more than csync.

If you don't want to use a simpler system don't blame me.

[DirkSwizzler]

Good for you. I'm happy with the gscartsw-lite and gcompsw (and you'll note the MLiG guys also have a ton of gscartsw and gcompsw too), and I'm not interested in getting an Extron Crosspoint. They're expensive to ship ($20 alone in shipping, plus potential import duties), they take up a ton of room, they require expensive adapters for audio, they require all new custom cabling to get console-to-bnc cables, they would require sync strippers for all non-csync consoles because they only support csync, they don't support auto-switching like my current switches, and I've seen plenty of reports here of compatibility issues with Extron Crosspoint switches where people say "my stuff works fine connected directly to the display but when I go through a crosspoint I get this or that video issue".

The $164 cost was just to *add* a crosspoint, which would just be to work around an OSSC that only had a single video input (as was proposed here). Replacing all switches with the Crosspoint would cost hundreds of dollars more in new cables for an arguably less capable switching solution that has a bunch of extra restrictions. No thanks.

It would seem to me that this could also be solved by a daughterboard that had two inputs on it.

Yes the cables are expensive, but that's the compensation for the switch costing $30 + shipping. If you want to have multiple unnecessary switches and refuse to do your budget any other way I can't help you because you've sabotaged yourself. And the gscart and gcomp switches are not perfect. They are not manual like the extron so have fun playing games with resolution changes in them and waiting for them to re-detect the same channel they were on previously every time. Also the gscart doesn't detect ps2 and the lite doesn't even have the port 8 "use if no other channel is detected" feature. As for problems other people are having my bet is they don't know what they are doing. Also the crosspoints detect more than csync.

If you don't want to use a simpler system don't blame me.

"The world would be so much better if everyone just agreed with me"

While I personally think it would be fine for my situation if there were a singular BNC input. I have to agree that it's likely not a good fit for a significant portion of the community.

It would be fine for me because I already have everything wired to end up in RGBs on my gscartsw 3.4 outputting to my framemeister and pvm. And I personally believe that my setup is better than any crosspoint solution. Literally the only setup I have to do is power on whichever console I want to play. No other configuration needed.

[citrus3000psi]

It would be fine for me because I already have everything wired to end up in RGBs on my gscartsw 3.4 outputting to my framemeister and pvm. And I personally believe that my setup is better than any crosspoint solution. Literally the only setup I have to do is power on whichever console I want to play. No other configuration needed.

The problem with that setup is that you can't push S-Video of composite through the GSscart.

I have something that is partially complete that I'm working on that is similar (sort of) to what Wolf is describing. I have a small pcb that I have designed that has the following plugs

RGBS (Scart)
S-Video
Composite
Toslink
Left/Right Audio
Component
VGA

Most of the dataline are shared, so there are only 5 video wires. Like the 5 BNC lines Wolf is describing.
This box then feeds into a Extron DA which then goes to multiple TV inputs, OSSC etc.

I don't care about keeping all my consoles hooked up. I Just want it to be easy to hookup when I'm ready.

[DirkSwizzler]

It would be fine for me because I already have everything wired to end up in RGBs on my gscartsw 3.4 outputting to my framemeister and pvm. And I personally believe that my setup is better than any crosspoint solution. Literally the only setup I have to do is power on whichever console I want to play. No other configuration needed.

The problem with that setup is that you can't push S-Video of composite through the GSscart.

You do have a point. I should have qualified it "better than any crosspoint solution for me". Which is really getting at my point of always trying to support more diverse setups.

I don't rely on svideo/composite for anything.
Genesis/32x/CD, Saturn, Dreamcast, Wii U, GameCube (chipped PAL) + Gameboy Player, N64 (voultar mod), Snes mini (Voultar mod), av famicom (nesrgb), PSP go, Neo Geo AES, XBox, PS1, PS2, TG16 (voultar mod soon).

None if it requires anything less than RGBs or YPbPr. So it works super well for me.

[citrus3000psi]

I don't rely on svideo/composite for anything.

Agreed this is on a case by case basis. I have some consoles I choose not to mod, and some consoles that don't yet support anything beyond Y/C like the 7800.

Wolf's option sounds nice, if don't have a gscart. I'm sure people with gscart won't want to add another switch to there setup.

[bobrocks95]

Good for you. I'm happy with the gscartsw-lite and gcompsw (and you'll note the MLiG guys also have a ton of gscartsw and gcompsw too), and I'm not interested in getting an Extron Crosspoint. They're expensive to ship ($20 alone in shipping, plus potential import duties), they take up a ton of room, they require expensive adapters for audio, they require all new custom cabling to get console-to-bnc cables, they would require sync strippers for all non-csync consoles because they only support csync, they don't support auto-switching like my current switches, and I've seen plenty of reports here of compatibility issues with Extron Crosspoint switches where people say "my stuff works fine connected directly to the display but when I go through a crosspoint I get this or that video issue".

The $164 cost was just to *add* a crosspoint, which would just be to work around an OSSC that only had a single video input (as was proposed here). Replacing all switches with the Crosspoint would cost hundreds of dollars more in new cables for an arguably less capable switching solution that has a bunch of extra restrictions. No thanks.

It would seem to me that this could also be solved by a daughterboard that had two inputs on it.

Yes the cables are expensive, but that's the compensation for the switch costing $30 + shipping. If you want to have multiple unnecessary switches and refuse to do your budget any other way I can't help you because you've sabotaged yourself. And the gscart and gcomp switches are not perfect. They are not manual like the extron so have fun playing games with resolution changes in them and waiting for them to re-detect the same channel they were on previously every time. Also the gscart doesn't detect ps2 and the lite doesn't even have the port 8 "use if no other channel is detected" feature. As for problems other people are having my bet is they don't know what they are doing. Also the crosspoints detect more than csync.

If you don't want to use a simpler system don't blame me.

If someone were just starting out and hadn't bought any cables or switches yet I'd recommend DSub connectors and a VGA switch.

But Christ, the sheer audacity to sit there and tell someone who already has a working solution and a full set of gear that they need to buy a completely new setup that matches yours exactly is absolutely insane. Believe it or not, but some people don't want to spend a shitload of money to fix a problem they don't have.

[DirkSwizzler]

Just spitballing a bit to maybe find a happy medium.

I happen to believe that the DSub-15/VGA + 3.5mm audio is the most happy blend of compactness and versatility.
-VGA cables are plentiful and well made.
-5xBNC breakout cables mean you could somewhat easily make contact with the signal of your choice. RGBHV, RGBs, RGsB, YPbPr, S-Video, Composite.
*I think adapting SCART RGBs to VGA RGBs is somewhat problematic because it's uncommon. But it's definitely doable
-There's a wide array of switches.

Assuming that each VGA port could be configured via autosense or dip switches, then it becomes both compact and versatile at the same time.

I personally would be fine with adapting all my connections to this. And I *think* Guspaz mostly just wants multiple inputs. And Wolf_ would be happy with a BNC breakout to his crosspoint.

If autosensing the inputs works, then maybe it really could be reduced down to 1 VGA connector with the assumption that almost any VGA switch is good enough to expand the inputs.

[Wolf_]

Good for you. I'm happy with the gscartsw-lite and gcompsw (and you'll note the MLiG guys also have a ton of gscartsw and gcompsw too), and I'm not interested in getting an Extron Crosspoint. They're expensive to ship ($20 alone in shipping, plus potential import duties), they take up a ton of room, they require expensive adapters for audio, they require all new custom cabling to get console-to-bnc cables, they would require sync strippers for all non-csync consoles because they only support csync, they don't support auto-switching like my current switches, and I've seen plenty of reports here of compatibility issues with Extron Crosspoint switches where people say "my stuff works fine connected directly to the display but when I go through a crosspoint I get this or that video issue".

The $164 cost was just to *add* a crosspoint, which would just be to work around an OSSC that only had a single video input (as was proposed here). Replacing all switches with the Crosspoint would cost hundreds of dollars more in new cables for an arguably less capable switching solution that has a bunch of extra restrictions. No thanks.

It would seem to me that this could also be solved by a daughterboard that had two inputs on it.

Yes the cables are expensive, but that's the compensation for the switch costing $30 + shipping. If you want to have multiple unnecessary switches and refuse to do your budget any other way I can't help you because you've sabotaged yourself. And the gscart and gcomp switches are not perfect. They are not manual like the extron so have fun playing games with resolution changes in them and waiting for them to re-detect the same channel they were on previously every time. Also the gscart doesn't detect ps2 and the lite doesn't even have the port 8 "use if no other channel is detected" feature. As for problems other people are having my bet is they don't know what they are doing. Also the crosspoints detect more than csync.

If you don't want to use a simpler system don't blame me.

If someone were just starting out and hadn't bought any cables or switches yet I'd recommend DSub connectors and a VGA switch.

But Christ, the sheer audacity to sit there and tell someone who already has a working solution and a full set of gear that they need to buy a completely new setup that matches yours exactly is absolutely insane. Believe it or not, but some people don't want to spend a shitload of money to fix a problem they don't have.

It's a universal analogue video standard. That makes it so much easier. And I pointed out that by selling off their unnecessary existing setup they could recoup most if not all of their losses. It isn't like I'm saying they need to burn their money or anything. I can't help if someone is just looking for an excuse not to like an idea.

[Guspaz]

You're suggesting that I replace my entire setup with a much worse one (the Extron Crosspoint is much less capable. It doesn't do auto-switching at all, and has no luma/cvbs/etc sync support). I don't see how your completely manual "have to memorize which button is for each device" approach is somehow easier. I've put a lot of effort into getting a fully automatic switching setup, I don't see how going back to a primitive manual setup does not seem like an improvement. The fact that I currently need separate inputs for RGBS versus YPbPr is just because of issues with one particular device that I'll be addressing in the near future.

I honestly don't understand why people push the Crosspoints so hard. They're very expensive when you add all their custom cabling and phoenix connectors, they're fully manual, they're very restrictive, and from all the issues people complain about here, they seem to have many compatibility issues.

[pyrotek85]

Mine has been great for me and haven't any complaints, but I agree people shouldn't be pushed into another setup if it's not for them.