OSSC Wolf Edition - Audio over HDMI

[Wolf_]

I understand the final version is probably many months away but please put me down for one if you are doing one of those mail list things.

[bobrocks95]

Consider this another vote for 240p downscaling (for a substantial price bump) And a future order.

I still don't know of a scenario where you'd need upscaling and downscaling in one device connected to one TV... Unless you want to unplug everything from your OSSC and move it over to another TV every time you switch between the two.

It's definitely something someone needs to make at some point (and becker isn't the guy to ask about it), but I see 0 reason to put both into a combo unit.

[orange808]

Consider this another vote for 240p downscaling (for a substantial price bump) And a future order.

I still don't know of a scenario where you'd need upscaling and downscaling in one device connected to one TV... Unless you want to unplug everything from your OSSC and move it over to another TV every time you switch between the two.

It's definitely something someone needs to make at some point (and becker isn't the guy to ask about it), but I see 0 reason to put both into a combo unit.

Making the unit more versatile will bring a larger market.

Also, 240p passthrough and 480i/480p scan conversion to 240p seems like a natural pair to me.

[Talkurt]

Consider this another vote for 240p downscaling (for a substantial price bump) And a future order.

I still don't know of a scenario where you'd need upscaling and downscaling in one device connected to one TV... Unless you want to unplug everything from your OSSC and move it over to another TV every time you switch between the two.

It's definitely something someone needs to make at some point (and becker isn't the guy to ask about it), but I see 0 reason to put both into a combo unit.

You know what. You got me there. I have a large setup. Most systems including converted hdmi going through an extron so my braIn tends to think "all in one". How about just a vote for an readily purchasable downscaler

[bobrocks95]

Consider this another vote for 240p downscaling (for a substantial price bump) And a future order.

I still don't know of a scenario where you'd need upscaling and downscaling in one device connected to one TV... Unless you want to unplug everything from your OSSC and move it over to another TV every time you switch between the two.

It's definitely something someone needs to make at some point (and becker isn't the guy to ask about it), but I see 0 reason to put both into a combo unit.

Making the unit more versatile will bring a larger market.

Also, 240p passthrough and 480i/480p scan conversion to 240p seems like a natural pair to me.

Too versatile and it can become an overpriced all-in-one device that nobody is using all the functions on. If it costs nothing that's an easier argument to make, but I still don't see the point of a combo unit.

240p passthrough and 480i/p scan conversion definitely make sense together, I'd expect a downconverter to do all of that. How does that pair with upscaling to 480p and higher though? You plug downsampled content into a 15kHz CRT right? Upscaling is for a 31kHz+ display, and typically a digital display at that (though we've got some PC CRT people using the OSSC I'm sure).

They're totally different usage scenarios, unless I'm missing something.

Consider this another vote for 240p downscaling (for a substantial price bump) And a future order.

I still don't know of a scenario where you'd need upscaling and downscaling in one device connected to one TV... Unless you want to unplug everything from your OSSC and move it over to another TV every time you switch between the two.

It's definitely something someone needs to make at some point (and becker isn't the guy to ask about it), but I see 0 reason to put both into a combo unit.

You know what. You got me there. I have a large setup. Most systems including converted hdmi going through an extron so my braIn tends to think "all in one". How about just a vote for an readily purchasable downscaler

It definitely needs to be made, I hope someone can step in and fill that niche.

EDIT: Dammit once again we're not talking about becker's Wolf Edition, sorry. He can't add downsampling anyway, we should be talking about it in another thread instead of cluttering his...

[opt2not]

Just wanted to jump in and state my interest as well. i already have a xrgb-mini but I am curious to compare the lag to the OSSC.

[becker]

I'm aware that the integration and mixing of the audio signal is one of the major features of this revision, but would it be possible to retain a separate audio out at least for the scart input? Most of the RGB cables I've got only have a scart connector with no optional stereo out so I found this feature on the original OSSC quite useful.

Edit: If there's no room for more connectors, I would prefer the 3.5 jack to be an outpur rather than an input (again, as it was on the original version). Optional routing of all the audio inputs to this 3.5 out would of course be great for headphones with built-in volume control, but I realize it requires a bit more work.

Good suggestion. I will consider doing a 3.5 jack pass-through for scart.

Nice work! VGA and HDMI connectors are quite close to each other, though - have you verified that cables fit there together?

Thank you for jumping in and clearing things up. Yes, the connectors were too close together. I fixed it before sending out the first prototype.

Many people are asking about Composite and S-video inputs. I did want to add it and spent a lot of time researching how to do it. There are several reasons why I did not add it. The FPGA would need to go up a size for more pins. The larger FPGA are all BGA. A BGA would need more PCB layers for traces to escape. There would need to be a separate IC to digitize the new signals. It is unclear which IC are good. I also considered staying with the current FPGA and offloading peripheral function to an MCU so the FPGA had enough pins for another 8bit DAC input. Yes, these things add more cost and complexity. However, the biggest reason for me not adding these is firmware. I cannot do it myself. Wolf Edition will need firmware but it seems like a more realistic request to ask my coworker/friend to just add sound. This is what I am starting with.

[rtw]

Nice work @becker

Just one comment on size and placement, the device does not have to be as small as possible, if you allow yourself a little more space it will not feel so cramped and routing will be easier.

[fafangus]

Nice upgrade here ^^
You can count me on the pre order list

[fafangus]

Please give us better VGA image processing, the original OSSC was the worst I've ever seen the Dreamcast look through VGA. (with the exception of those cheap tomee cables) Maybe I've been spoiled by the Toro, but Ikaruga on a VGA monitor is Sublime. (in my opinion)

You too huh? Well that makes two. We need to get to the bottom of these reports because the Dreamcast should (and indeed does) look perfect with the OSSC, better than any basic VGA to HDMI box.

I don't understand, my DC looks absolutely fantastic trough the OSSC DB15 input !!! Crystal clear and sharp as hell
Even better than my NNC's Toshiba ^^ - well that's not the same screen :-p -

[hunter291]

You haven't posted whether posting in this thread is a viable option to preorder, and as some others are doing it, I guess I will also show my interest to be on that preorder list

But it's going to be a while until a consumer version is ready, right?

[becker]

You haven't posted whether posting in this thread is a viable option to preorder, and as some others are doing it, I guess I will also show my interest to be on that preorder list

But it's going to be a while until a consumer version is ready, right?

Thank you everyone for your interest. It will be awhile before this is ready to sell. I am not starting a preorder list yet.

[hunter291]

Ok, I see. Thanks!

[yxkalle]

DisplayPort?

[becker]

DisplayPort?

I briefly considered display port.
I could not find the IC for it and it would replace one of the three main IC. This would be a massive code rewrite.
I have not seen DP outside of gaming monitors. I think of the OSSC as a TV and console device.

[Guspaz]

The advantage of DisplayPort is that there are cheap generic adapters (both passive and active, although basic DisplayPort support would require active) available to nearly any potential output format, including HDMI, DVI, and VGA. And by cheap, I mean an active DisplayPort to VGA adapter costs US$8 at Monoprice, much cheaper than something like an HDFury HDMI-to-VGA adapter, which costs US$89.

It's true that most TVs need nothing more than HDMI, but using DisplayPort could provide users with a very cheap alternative to onboard analog output on the OSSC for use with PC CRT monitors and 31KHz PVM/BVMs.

[DiegoPonga]

DisplayPort?

I briefly considered display port.
I could not find the IC for it and it would replace one of the three main IC. This would be a massive code rewrite.
I have not seen DP outside of gaming monitors. I think of the OSSC as a TV and console device.

Now you talk about DisplayPort, do you think it is possible to see an OSSC iteration with adaptive sync? That would allow us to play some arcade and handheld games at their original refresh rate.

[Xyga]

Don't FreeSync work over HDMI now though? maybe there are some requiements, dunno...

[becker]

DisplayPort?

I briefly considered display port.
I could not find the IC for it and it would replace one of the three main IC. This would be a massive code rewrite.
I have not seen DP outside of gaming monitors. I think of the OSSC as a TV and console device.

Now you talk about DisplayPort, do you think it is possible to see an OSSC iteration with adaptive sync? That would allow us to play some arcade and handheld games at their original refresh rate.

I have not seen information about implementing adaptive sync technology. It might not be available outside industry partners.

[Nrg]

Don't FreeSync work over HDMI now though? maybe there are some requiements, dunno...

Yeah, adaptive refresh rates are now included in the (upcoming) HDMI 2.1 specification. They call it "Game Mode VRR":

"Game Mode VRR features variable refresh rate, which enables a 3D graphics processor to display the image at the moment it is rendered for more fluid and better detailed gameplay, and for reducing or eliminating lag, stutter, and frame tearing."

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11003/hdm ... gbps-cable

[Xyga]

Yes I'm aware of VRR coming to HDMI 2.1 but I was thinking kind of 'how about hacking FreeSync through HDMI'
Because since someone explained to me a flat panel doesn't really need the sync information to display a full frame, I've been suspecting what's called 'adaptive sync' is really not much more than bypassing the limiting standards the industry attached to the displays at the beginning of the 'HD era'.
Anyway, even if the basic principle might possibly be that simple, hacking through proprietary imprint might not be. *cough*

[becker]

Here is a tease. Boards arrived today. I also have a big box of all the parts.
I will be out of town this weekend. Placing the components will have to wait at least a week.

[leonk]

neat!!!

is the space around the pcb intentional or are you supposed to manually cut it?

[becker]

neat!!!

is the space around the pcb intentional or are you supposed to manually cut it?

The space around the board are rails for assembly. They have score lines and snap off after it goes through the oven. Rails give blank space for the machines to grip. Without rails the grippers can block pads close to edge to the components being placed.

[lettuce]

Awesome!, cant wait for the pre-orders to go up

[K405]

Hi becker,

Awesome stuff just wanted to declare my interest.

[becker]

I spent this weekend building one board. It took 9 hours of troubleshooting a pick and place machine then giving up and spending 6 hours hand-placing everything. Unfortunately it ended up being a dud. I'm not sure what happened but using a multi-meter my only conclusion is that it was manufactured missing the internal power plane. The grounds are tied together like they should be, but I can't get conductivity on anything that goes into the power plane. At least it looks cool and I have parts for another try when I do another rev of the pcb. Its not a total loss. I learned that there are plastic tabs on the LCD that block the SD card opening. I do not remember those in the datasheet. I need to mechanically change the connector layout anyways.
Marqs is improving the OSSC by adding sound. Lucky for me, sound will become part of the firmware. But it also means the Wolf edition needs to step up its game. I have a few ideas to make it still an interesting alternative to Marqs reference design. I will share more when I have a more clear idea of the next revision.

[Woozle]

Looks awesome!

I have an OSSC and my TV can integrate analog audio into the HDMI video, so I'm all set for audio. But I wouldn't mind a Wolf edition for a TV in another room.

Could you add some pin headers so folks could control the OSSC with something besides the remote? The remote on the OSSC is very unreliable and is probably my biggest complaint with the unit. I realize it would require some firmware coding, but at least breaking out a couple FPGA IO to headers would be a start.

Also, do you have any recommendations for ESD protection on the HDMI output? I'm looking for a chip to help with that.

[RGB0b]

I think an amazing addition would be S-Video support. Even if it's just via a custom S-Video to SCART board...as long as it's lossless, it'll be a huge help for people. Of course, adding it to the board is ideal, but that might be way too big of a revision change.

[Woozle]

If there were spare FPGA IO pins, it would be great to have a bunch broken out to an FFC connector. That would make add-on boards somewhat easier to develop.