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 Post subject: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:25 am 



Joined: 08 Apr 2016
Posts: 79
Location: Yorktown, VA
I received an unexpected email today: I'm up on the OSSC pre-order list and have 48 hours to make my purchase. I already have an XRGB Mini that I love. My main issue is that it's going to cost $200+ for the OSSC, plus $40 for the JP21 to SCART cable, and another $10-20 for the 3.5mm to RCA stereo cable. To top it off, I'm heading to San Francisco for vacation next week (and to watch my Niners lose to the Pats by 30+ points...).

I want to save the 1.5 frames of lag, but don't know how much extra lag (if any) my Sony 4K TV is going to add upconverting 480p compared to 720p. It's been reported that Sony TVs have terrible compatibility with the OSSC's line tripling 720p output. Unfortunately, I've also heard that the scanlines look a lot better when outputting 720p compared to 480p. I'm a huge scanline fan - I find it to be essential for 240p games.

I'm also concerned about its 480i handling. I have a large PS2 library, and half of my GameCube (via Wii) games are only 480i. The XRGB Mini is fantastic for 480i games.

Any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:50 am 


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Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 1972
Location: Montréal, Canada
The cables aren't quite so bad as that. Retro Console Accessories charges $18.99 USD for JP21 to SCART cables of different genders, and a Monoprice 6 foot 3.5mm to stereo RCA cable costs $0.79.

I can't speak to how your Sony TV's quality/latency is on upscaling 480p, only to say that most TVs/displays don't have any additional latency displaying 480p as compared to their native resolution: it's 480i that causes lag because the deinterlacer gets involved. On my projector, the display latency is the same for all progressive resolutions from 240p through 1080p.

How good 480p looks depends on your display. My projector has a very sharp scaling algorithm that preserves the square pixel shape, so there isn't much of a difference in sharpness between 240p/480p/720p (the last one being from a computer as it doesn't work with line triple). But my Dell monitor uses a simple bilinear scale, where 480p looks very soft without defined pixel edges, and 720p from the OSSC is enormously sharper. Above all, it's true that scanlines look much better at 720p: I find that they are basically useless at 480p because the drop in brightness is so severe, and 720p mitigates that problem significantly.

I think that 480i looks good on the OSSC, but how you feel about bob deinterlacing is really personal preference. Notably, the OSSC does give you the option for 480i passthrough, which lets your television do the de-interlacing instead of the OSSC. This normally causes your TV to add more lag (my projector adds 2 frames of lag for interlaced content).


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:02 am 


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Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 803
Location: Arizona, US
I'm in the same situation. Would like to get one but I don't think my Sony is compatible with line triple. I also prefer nice looking scanlines but if I can't get 720p what's the point? I actually prefer the flickering with alternating scanlines for 480i games as it gives it a more authentic look. I hear it looks pretty great.
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Framemeister 240p scanline settings: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=9600


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:20 am 



Joined: 08 Apr 2016
Posts: 79
Location: Yorktown, VA
I'm also a bit concerned about the reported SFC/SNES drop outs. Those are two of my favorites systems, and get plenty of play. With the OSSC though, I'd be able to move my Dreamcast back to VGA and finally get my PS2 connected via RGB (utilizing RGsB for 480p). I'm just torn on the whole thing. I checked the total with shipping (to Hawaii, ugh...), and converting it to USD, it comes out to be just over $220. Plus another $50+ for the necessary cables / adapters; I'd go with the pro-coaxial upgraded JP21 to SCART cable from Retro Console Accessories, since it'd be coming from a RGB switch. Of course though, I'd be able to get a good resale value on the Mini. It's a tough call. I have a feeling that I'd be stuck with 480p from the OSSC. Which would still give me improved colors, less digital noise, and much better resolution switch handling. Unfortunately, I'd lose pixel sharpness and have inferior scanlines.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:58 am 


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Joined: 06 Oct 2015
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Location: Montréal, Canada
IIRC there was a way to test compatibility for 720p by using a custom modeline on a PC to match the output of the OSSC? Marqs might be able to shed some light.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:18 am 



Joined: 08 Apr 2016
Posts: 79
Location: Yorktown, VA
Guspaz wrote:
IIRC there was a way to test compatibility for 720p by using a custom modeline on a PC to match the output of the OSSC? Marqs might be able to shed some light.


I'd be very interested in this test. If I can output 720p, I'd most likely pull the trigger.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:45 am 


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Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 803
Location: Arizona, US
960 x 720 is such an oddball resolution I can't seem to find anything to test it with. The good news is that my TV does support 1280 x 960 so if the OSSC ever gets an update for line quadruple it should work.
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Framemeister 240p scanline settings: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=9600


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:00 pm 


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Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 299
If you already have a Framemeister I would just wait for the eventual OSSC hardware refresh. Weren't there things the OSSC just "couldn't do" in its current iteration?


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:20 pm 


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Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 803
Location: Arizona, US
Who knows when that will be.
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Framemeister 240p scanline settings: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=9600


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:23 pm 


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Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 3045
Location: UK
Quote:
have 48 hours to make my purchase.


You have 48 hours plus however long it takes to shift the entire batch, so usually way longer than that :)
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OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:34 pm 


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Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1786
austin532 wrote:
960 x 720 is such an oddball resolution I can't seem to find anything to test it with.


Plenty of those on the original Xbox, here's a list:

25 to Life
Amped 2
Atari Anthology
Charlie and the chocolate factory
Crash Nitro Kart
Dragon's Lair 3D: Return to the Lair
Enter The Matrix
ESPN NBA Basketball 2k4
ESPN NFL Football
Evil Dead: Regeneration
FIFA 2006
FIFA 2007
FIFA Street
FIFA Street 2
Freedom Fighters
Justice League Heroes
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Mortal Kombat: Armageddon
MVP Baseball 2004
MVP Baseball 2005
MVP NCAA Baseball 2006
MX Unleashed
MX vs. ATV Unleashed
NBA 2K3
NBA Live 2006
NBA Live 07
Scarface
Sims 2
Sims Bustin' Out
Soul Calibur II
Steel Battalion: Line of Contact
Street Hoops
Syberia
Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines
The Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction
The Urbz: Sims In The City
The Warriors
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
Tony Hawk's Underground
Tony Hawk's Underground 2
Total Overdose
True Crime: Streets of LA
Virtual Pool
X-Men Legends
X-Men Legends 2: Rise of Apocalypse


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:11 am 


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Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 1972
Location: Montréal, Canada
That's not a useful test, because a display's ability to handle 960x720 analog input doesn't tell you anything about the display's ability to accept that over HDMI. Heck, AFAIK horizontal resolution on component video doesn't actually impact the timings.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:26 am 


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Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1786
Guspaz wrote:
That's not a useful test, because a display's ability to handle 960x720 analog input doesn't tell you anything about the display's ability to accept that over HDMI. Heck, AFAIK horizontal resolution on component video doesn't actually impact the timings.


Okay, try these:

https://vndb.org/r15399

https://vndb.org/r18931

https://vndb.org/r27857

There's some great 960x720 tests that can be done with these.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:56 pm 


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Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 13
Location: UK
jdawg131 wrote:

I want to save the 1.5 frames of lag, but don't know how much extra lag (if any) my Sony 4K TV is going to add upconverting 480p compared to 720p. It's been reported that Sony TVs have terrible compatibility with the OSSC's line tripling 720p output. Unfortunately, I've also heard that the scanlines look a lot better when outputting 720p compared to 480p. I'm a huge scanline fan - I find it to be essential for 240p games.



I've got a Sony 4K TV and line triplling works fine, it's a Sony Bravia KD49X8005C


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:00 pm 



Joined: 07 Feb 2013
Posts: 223
I've also got a Sony 4K tv SONY KD65XD8577SAEP and line trippling looks just fine with for example SNES. ofcourse I don't use scanlines.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:11 pm 


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Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6378
Location: Craig's
The Sony sets reported not working w/ the OSSC's linetriple mode so far were only Full-HD (up to 2015 models iirc).
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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:29 am 


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Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 246
Location: Philippines
I also received an email from them and still thinking whether I should order one. My main objective would be to play my 8 and 16-bit consoles (FC, PCE, MD and SFC/SNES) on newer displays. Currently, I always use em on my SD CRT. I have a chance to purchase a projector (720p) with VGA input. Any ideas how I can connect my Genesis 2 or 3 here and would this be a good idea? I also have an XMD-3 http://www.segagagadomain.com/hardware-mega/xmd-3.htm device, which has the following outputs:

8 pin DIN analogue RGB and
15 pin analogue RGB

What kind of cables will I need? Any help, advice or insights would be much appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:36 pm 



Joined: 02 Sep 2016
Posts: 121
I wonder if they received a larger batch than expected? I also received an e-mail and immediately ordered because it seemed very limited and I felt pressured to make a decision. I didn't really have time to think about it and it already shipped yesterday, but after really thinking about it I might just keep my Framemeister and sell the OSSC.

However, I'm following this thread also looking for more information. I'm currently only using a Vizio 1080p TV and don't have any CRTs.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:32 pm 


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Joined: 19 Jan 2016
Posts: 265
Location: Sweden
jdawg131 wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
IIRC there was a way to test compatibility for 720p by using a custom modeline on a PC to match the output of the OSSC? Marqs might be able to shed some light.


I'd be very interested in this test. If I can output 720p, I'd most likely pull the trigger.


Dug up the post for you
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52158&p=1070900&hilit=modeline#p1070900

Also some additional modelines to test for the NES/SNES optimized mode, from the wiki optimal timings page:
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Optimal_timings
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 Post subject: Re: Should I get an OSSC?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:59 am 


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Joined: 14 May 2015
Posts: 92
Location: Australia
sofakng wrote:
I wonder if they received a larger batch than expected? I also received an e-mail and immediately ordered because it seemed very limited and I felt pressured to make a decision. I didn't really have time to think about it and it already shipped yesterday, but after really thinking about it I might just keep my Framemeister and sell the OSSC.

However, I'm following this thread also looking for more information. I'm currently only using a Vizio 1080p TV and don't have any CRTs.


480p from the OSSC to my 1080p plasma looks awesome. Even without integer perfect scaling the scanlines look great. Line triple doesn't work, and although I was initially disappointed, I'm enjoying the OSSC alot and happy to wait until I upgrade to a line triple compatible set in a few years.

Compared to the FM, I can also notice the difference in input lag. My TV has ~43 ms (from memory) so the reduction is significant and, to my perceptions at least, noticeable.

If youre playing racers and/or shmups, you should give yhe OSSC a decent crack before making your decision.


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