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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:43 pm 


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Location: Finland
Commodore 1084 nothing special? Jeez, way to slam down a solid monitor.
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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:40 pm 


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Tuned my Sony FV300 for an S-Video signal. Eh, not too bad!

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:48 pm 



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for s-video, that looks pretty good!


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:51 pm 


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Location: Montréal, Canada
People forget that S-Video will get you like 75%+ the quality of RGB, with the luma channel being of similar quality to RGB or YPbPr, and the chroma being a huge step up over composite.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:19 pm 


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I think this set is excellent aside from 1 thing : there's no way to fine tune the reds.

Outside of the option to adjust the drive and cut for each colour, there's an additional option called "drive offset" and "cut offset" for both greens and blues, but not for red. (I indeed needed to tweak these to get the light blues, light greens, dark blues and dark greens the right amount of presence).

And it's really a shame, because if it was there I would be able to give the set an additional, very noticeable boost in colour fidelity.
There's a flaw that's absent on those two pics, because that colour is not present in the raster : light reds are lifeless. Ken's red gui looks so damn flat on this set... It's truly disappointing, especially when everything else looks so good.

Outside of that the set looks great though.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:40 am 


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I assume drive and cut are your high and low color calibration settings. Normally you leave green alone while tweaking red and blue. Maybe they intentionally set it to red for production reasons?


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:55 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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Guspaz wrote:
People forget that S-Video will get you like 75%+ the quality of RGB, with the luma channel being of similar quality to RGB or YPbPr, and the chroma being a huge step up over composite.

Yeah. The jump from Composite to S-Video is by far the largest step up in quality. RF is bottom tier, Composite is low tier, S-Video is mid-tier, YPbPr/RGB is high tier, and VGA/HDMI is top tier.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:02 am 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
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NJRoadfan wrote:
The one advantage it has is that its extremely common and easy to find.


I don't know where you live...oh wait, New Jersey (I'm assuming ;) ...same area as me! Commodore monitors are pretty hard to find lately in my experience. I've found well over 30 PVM's in the same time span I was looking for a 1084S, and I found one single Commodore 1084S just last week (which I bought).


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:05 am 


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Einzelherz wrote:
I assume drive and cut are your high and low color calibration settings. Normally you leave green alone while tweaking red and blue. Maybe they intentionally set it to red for production reasons?

yes drive is high colour and cut is low colour

I don't know why exactly but the drive and cut offsets settings seem to work a bit differently than the standard drive and cut controls. I really need to tweak the offsets to get great greens and blues, the standard drive and cut settings won't cut it (pun intended) on their own

Not that I roll with the red push OFF. If you leave it on, the lighter reds can get good levels but then all the other reds end up way too saturated


Last edited by FinalBaton on Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:07 am 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
I don't know where you live...oh wait, New Jersey (I'm assuming ;) ...same area as me! Commodore monitors are pretty hard to find lately in my experience. I've found well over 30 PVM's in the same time span I was looking for a 1084S, and I found one single Commodore 1084S just last week (which I bought).

Nice Dochartaigh! Hopefully you will post some pics :)


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:32 am 



Joined: 07 Oct 2015
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Dochartaigh wrote:
I don't know where you live...oh wait, New Jersey (I'm assuming ;) ...same area as me! Commodore monitors are pretty hard to find lately in my experience. I've found well over 30 PVM's in the same time span I was looking for a 1084S, and I found one single Commodore 1084S just last week (which I bought).


I'm not surprised, the thrifts around here have been dry with computer equipment for a while now, not a single CRT in sight. Not everyone has the same experience with the 1084 since about a dozen monitors had the same model number with various CRTs installed. It was also sold with the Philips and Magnavox branding as well. I used to work at a place that had a ton of the Magnavox CM80s laying around for video output test purposes. They were extremely repair prone (power switches and fly backs always went on them) and the picture wasn't exactly vibrant. Yes, it was sharp, but the colors were lacking. Sony's smaller PVMs and the period correct KV-1311CR were all around better monitors.

An honorable mention goes out to the AppleColor RGB A2M6014 for vibrant color, but lacking in sharpness. It was made by Mitsubishi for Apple. The difference is quite noticeable when placed next to my NEC Multisync II.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:00 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
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Those pics look great FinalBaton. S-video is really mostly spot on on these sets. I only use component for the later consoles like Gamecube, PS2 and Neo Geo. S-video is great for everything else imo, and looks even better than rgb for snes genesis etc on consumer crt's, but that might just be my personal preference.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:36 pm 


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NJRoadfan wrote:
I'm not surprised, the thrifts around here have been dry with computer equipment for a while now, not a single CRT in sight.


The sad thing is they might be turning those kind of donations away. Recently I've been donating some spare CRTs to clear up space. I called many thrift stores and only two would take CRT tv sets, with one of them having a max limit of 27 inches. With monitors, only one will take them. "No one would buy them", "we only take new tvs and monitors" etc...etc...


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:04 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
The sad thing is they might be turning those kind of donations away. Recently I've been donating some spare CRTs to clear up space. I called many thrift stores and only two would take CRT tv sets, with one of them having a max limit of 27 inches. With monitors, only one will take them. "No one would buy them", "we only take new tvs and monitors" etc...etc...


Same by me, nobody will even take them as a donation. Think I've seen 1 single CRT at a thrift store - and I swear it's only there because nobody has bought it (for like $12) in years and years and they just don't feel like having to moving that beast to the dumpster ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:32 pm 


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Heh, the week before a buddy had to clear some space (thanks angry wife!) and I happened to be there with my car ^^, so he gave me a 27" Bluesky NRBK70S rgb 50/60Hz consumer set from the 2000's, very generic/low-end but has barely been used,
and a quite common but really good also 2000's Sony KV-21LS30B in very good condition too.

Now I'm the one with too many crts again :mrgreen: : two 27", two 21", two - rather rare - 19"
but the 27" Trinitron has serious geometry and convergence problems despite being under 8000hrs, and one of the 19" is also a Trinitron but with a nearly dead chassis, I think (heavy purple tint and super out of focus)
Might dump the latter two instead of even trying to service and fix them...I know nobody will take them, too much trouble = no value.

Shit, I think my neighbor talked about giving me an old 25" Thomson that's been taking the dust for years (and has a pronounced green tint). *sigh*
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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:23 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
The sad thing is they might be turning those kind of donations away. Recently I've been donating some spare CRTs to clear up space. I called many thrift stores and only two would take CRT tv sets, with one of them having a max limit of 27 inches. With monitors, only one will take them. "No one would buy them", "we only take new tvs and monitors" etc...etc...


Same by me, nobody will even take them as a donation. Think I've seen 1 single CRT at a thrift store - and I swear it's only there because nobody has bought it (for like $12) in years and years and they just don't feel like having to moving that beast to the dumpster ;)


Heh. The one here that takes smaller tvs only has had a lot of the same crts for awhile too. Though I have seen some move. I've mostly been donating to the other one. They are a smaller place, so I've been doing one at a time. So far, everything has sold and they've been pretty happy about it. And to be fair it's not like I'm donating pure garbage. Mostly Sony sets, as well as a Tandberg monitor, I don't remember all the models of the Sony sets. Everything in good working order. I've been meaning to take a kv-34hs420 but I've been under the weather and those things are bad enough to lift when I'm at full capacity.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:02 pm 


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Location: Québec City
The Sony KV-XXFS13 seen in this vid seems pretty great. Makes me curious to check one out with my own eyes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9bnVTwrirI&t=15s


On another note, scanning this thread brought sadness to my heart as I realized that Shoryukev and Vol.2 do not post here anymore :( that's a big loss in my book, guys were always positive and respectful, that's the type of posters I always hope to see more of on here.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:21 am 


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Anyone know what line of JVC sets this is from, by any chance? I've searched and searched and found a couple pics but no descriptions

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:02 am 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 542
kamiboy wrote:
I will echo the sentiments regarding VGA monitors for retro gaming. It does not net optimal results. For that stick to 15khz screens.


I'll echo the echo. I have a Sony PC crt monitor which I bought a while ago thinking I could just feed it a 240p 120hz signal (as it's 31khz). Even in the "correct resolution" with real scanlines, the image was absolutely horrible. It now sits unused in my garage.

The top 15khz broadcast monitors can look a little blocky but they are nothing in comparison to the blockiness of a PC monitor. For 240p content, crt pc monitors are not much better than an HD flatscreen without an upscaler. You need full on HLSL to make it passable.

A crt tv with component or RGB is a better option.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:20 am 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 542
orange808 wrote:
BazookaBen wrote:
orange808 wrote:
...

I had a 55" rear projection Sony WEGA for years. The motion on it was fantastic. (I hate blur and ghosting!)

...

Unfortunately, the input lag was atrocious. Couldn't game on it.


We were talking about CRT rear projection TV's, where they have three tubes inside (R,G, and B) projecting onto a mirror or something.

I'm pretty sure you're talking about DLP or LCoS, which is a totally different technology.


Yep. More conversation than anything.

Given the spirited reply, protection televisions suck for video games. They always did and now they're over.

Probably a subject best left to the avforums.


I disagree with that. A good crt rear projection screen can be fantastic. The street fighter 2 cab at my local theater had a 50" crt rear projection monitor and it looked great.

As always, the devil is in the details. All rear projection tv's lose brightness when they get old so it hard to find one in good condition now.

Poor viewing angles was caused by a combination of a projector not being bright enough for the screen size and / or older models that lacked a fresnel lens over the screen (which gave uniform brightness on later models). So, the later, higher end crt rear projection sets are the best bet, if you can find one and not more than 50".

There were also some amazing crt front projectors. The Sony G90 being the best ever. Modern display tech only caught up to it in the last few years but many are still in use deliver an amazing 1080p image.

Unlike DLP, Lcos and LCD projectors, the guns on crt projectors last 15-20,000 hours, just like a crt tv. So you don't need to change expensive bulbs every 2000 hours.

Convergence is not an issue with crt projectors because, part of the set up process is aligning the 3 guns. So convergence is adjustable with the remote.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:53 am 


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I have a chance to get a Samsung TX-S2783 'slimfit' for free and I was wonder if it's worth it. I gave it a test with my SNES and Genesis through the RGB ports (using a shinybow) and it looked pretty good except the right side has some bowing issues in the corners and the image was just a smidgen off center. Is something like fixable in the service menu or is this a lost cause? I know some TVs have limited adjustments even in the service menu.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:08 pm 



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Tempest_2084 wrote:
I have a chance to get a Samsung TX-S2783 'slimfit' for free and I was wonder if it's worth it. I gave it a test with my SNES and Genesis through the RGB ports (using a shinybow) and it looked pretty good except the right side has some bowing issues in the corners and the image was just a smidgen off center. Is something like fixable in the service menu or is this a lost cause? I know some TVs have limited adjustments even in the service menu.


That sort of thing varies tremendously by brand and model. Sony Trintrons from the mid 90's had fairly extensive service menu options. Others only had a few pots on the chassis for fine tuning. If you can't find the service manual, you'll just have to try it out.

I have never seen a crt with no way of adjusting the horizontal position though, so you should be ok with that. But, if you adjust it for one console or pc, you would likely find it off-center for another due to timing variations. I would be less optimistic about fixing bowing completely on a large consumer crt but you shouldn't really notice it once you adjust the image to fit the screen properly. Every 25" and above crt I have ever seen has some geometry issues at the edges. I have only seen perfection on high end 20" broadcast monitors.

If you can notice major bowing after the image has been adjusted to fit, don't take the tv as it's not worth fixing imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:24 am 


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There's a service menu, but it requires the remote control to get into and he doesn't have one so I'll have to get a replacement. So I haven't seen what's all in it.


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