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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:40 am 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 191
mimix1004 wrote:
hello, i have a solution for the french N64 with an LM1881 and a teensy 3.6.

are you interested about my solution?


Yes, I'd love to know more about your solution, mimix1004!


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:43 pm 



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 14
i have recieved my pcb, i have some problems with my extron, when i'll solve them i'll post a tutorial.


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:51 pm 



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 14
if you haven't seen on another topic....

my solution but only for N64 and PCE:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


All is done ! now i'll send the 2nd prototype to Lewolfeur and he will test on his Neogeo !


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:50 am 



Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 64
This is brilliant! Let me know if you need more testing, I could do it and I live next to the french border in Roses (Girona).


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:16 pm 



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 14
you can found my own solution there:
http://www.nicekits.fr/perso/SYNCH-CORRECTOR-FOR-IKEGAMI-1990R.zip

you'll find source files with programs, schematic and pcb for eagle cad soft, a pinout and functionnal diagram and two example of use with BNC or SCART.

Image

Image

Image


my solution works for me but all of components are used at there maximum of speed.
and sometime, on white screen one PCE you can have jumps of screen on the PCE, but that depend of the extron or the reactivity of NAND includes inside.
YOU MUST use really really fast NAND. and YOU MUST use X2 capacitor for the LM1881.

if someone want to test, i have 8 blank PCB in stock


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:07 pm 


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How much would be willing to sell one of these already made? I'm having sync issues with my setup
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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:52 pm 



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 14
i cand sen you the critical component (PCB + super fast nands + X2 Capacitors) for 8€+shipping cost.
you will add ~40/50$ of components, that depends where you come from.

but for the moment i have not enough time to produce more fully assembled converters.


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:02 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 64
mimix1004 wrote:
i cand sen you the critical component (PCB + super fast nands + X2 Capacitors) for 8€+shipping cost.
you will add ~40/50$ of components, that depends where you come from.

but for the moment i have not enough time to produce more fully assembled converters.



I would be interested in one as well!


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:57 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 64
Sorry for double posting, but has anyone found a solution to this issue?


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:03 pm 



Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 8
Can anyone create a final Sync solution for BVM-A series to synchronize everything that BVM-D series does?

I have thought that the way forward in the Sync can be through a variable amplification or resistance of many Ohms. Able to vary the totality of Sync signal values to be adequate. Someone with knowledge should create this and, if possible, merge it with a RGBHV to RGBS converter. Small in size, functional, and to be connected only to the SYNC BNC input of BKM-68X.

I can not understand how the best monitor in the world in its revised version, can not even have a definitive Sync device created by the enthusiastic community lover of BVM. We're going to get a full Sync in BVM-A. I call on all people to help here.


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:17 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 64
RGB-A wrote:
Can anyone create a final Sync solution for BVM-A series to synchronize everything that BVM-D series does?

I have thought that the way forward in the Sync can be through a variable amplification or resistance of many Ohms. Able to vary the totality of Sync signal values to be adequate. Someone with knowledge should create this and, if possible, merge it with a RGBHV to RGBS converter. Small in size, functional, and to be connected only to the SYNC BNC input of BKM-68X.

I can not understand how the best monitor in the world in its revised version, can not even have a definitive Sync device created by the enthusiastic community lover of BVM. We're going to get a full Sync in BVM-A. I call on all people to help here.



Indeed, we need a solution soon, I can put my money where my mouth is, also, I could assess the possibility to send a BMK-68x card to someone attempting to engineer a fix.


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:34 am 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 94
RGB-A wrote:
Can anyone create a final Sync solution for BVM-A series to synchronize everything that BVM-D series does?

Looking like the SERR switch on an Extron RGB 160xi (or any newer "xi" Extron box like the RGB 580xi?) will take care of this issue. These Extron boxes should be able to take any old sync too, including CVBS.

More info:
viewtopic.php?p=1266819#p1266819


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:04 am 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 191
energizerfellow‌ wrote:
RGB-A wrote:
Can anyone create a final Sync solution for BVM-A series to synchronize everything that BVM-D series does?

Looking like the SERR switch on an Extron RGB 160xi (or any newer "xi" Extron box like the RGB 580xi?) will take care of this issue. These Extron boxes should be able to take any old sync too, including CVBS.

More info:
viewtopic.php?p=1266819#p1266819


From memory, it fixed the skew issue with the Neo Geo AES (although it introduced a bit of interference, might have been a bad cable??) but it did not fix the issue with PAL consoles like the Mega Drive.


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:47 pm 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 94
xga wrote:
From memory, it fixed the skew issue with the Neo Geo AES (although it introduced a bit of interference, might have been a bad cable??) but it did not fix the issue with PAL consoles like the Mega Drive.

It appears French N64s and Sega PAL consoles on an A-series Sony BVM are the only things that the Extron RGB xi boxes can't fix? The 100/200-series Extron RGB xi boxes have an internal jumper to clamp sync timing to either the back porch or the tip of the sync pulse, which might make a difference, but I don't think anybody has tested this yet?

Renesas has a ISL59885-based sample circuit that's ostensibly deigned to fix broken H sync in SoG, but would appear to be exactly what's needed here. If you read the doc, it looks like you can simplify the circuit pretty extensively if you don't need SoG or HD support and use an EL1883 instead.

https://www.intersil.com/content/dam/In ... /tb476.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:42 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 191
energizerfellow‌ wrote:
xga wrote:
From memory, it fixed the skew issue with the Neo Geo AES (although it introduced a bit of interference, might have been a bad cable??) but it did not fix the issue with PAL consoles like the Mega Drive.

It appears French N64s and Sega PAL consoles on an A-series Sony BVM are the only things that the Extron RGB xi boxes can't fix? The 100/200-series Extron RGB xi boxes have an internal jumper to clamp sync timing to either the back porch or the tip of the sync pulse, which might make a difference, but I don't think anybody has tested this yet?

Renesas has a ISL59885-based sample circuit that's ostensibly deigned to fix broken H sync in SoG, but would appear to be exactly what's needed here. If you read the doc, it looks like you can simplify the circuit pretty extensively if you don't need SoG or HD support and use an EL1883 instead.

https://www.intersil.com/content/dam/In ... /tb476.pdf


I tested a EL1883 device here - https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1250642#p1250642.

I might be able to test your Extron clamp sync theory this coming weekend.


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:07 am 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 94
xga wrote:

That Retrotek SBV1 is just a simple single-chip sync separator circuit. The one I linked breaks out the sync, regenerates some missing H sync data, then mixes it back together. It's a lot more complex circuit.

xga wrote:
I might be able to test your Extron clamp sync theory this coming weekend.

Nice. You ever test the sync input handling to see if the Extron boxes gradefully handle CVBS or luma as a sync source?


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:33 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 64
xga wrote:

I tested a EL1883 device here - https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1250642#p1250642.

I might be able to test your Extron clamp sync theory this coming weekend.


Did you manage to test it? :)


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:41 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 191
PeterWar wrote:
xga wrote:

I tested a EL1883 device here - https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1250642#p1250642.

I might be able to test your Extron clamp sync theory this coming weekend.


Did you manage to test it? :)


No, not yet. I'll reply here when I do.


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:12 am 


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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 947
Location: US, MI
This is gscartsw feature work in progress but I felt it belongs here.
I spent some time looking into this and here are my findings:
Image
(vertical sync portion of Sega Genesis 2 in native mode)



Image
(vertical sync portion of Sega Genesis 2 in native mode zoom in)



Image
(vertical sync portion of the same Sega Genesis 2 in Master System mode)



Image
(vertical sync portion of the same Sega Genesis 2 in Master System mode zoom in)



On the 3rd capture there is a small peak which I filtered but that didn't solve anything.
My speculation is that Master System is missing long enough negative peak in the end of the first vertical synchronization sequence (before second "equalizing" vertical synchronization sequence). That is illustrated by 4th capture.
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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:54 am 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 191
Many thanks for investigating this issue and sharing your findings so far, superg! A lot of us are very appreciative of the work you are doing on this feature of the gscartsw!

Do you feel reasonably confident that you will be able to correct this sync issue with your sync regeneration function?


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:10 pm 


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xga wrote:
Many thanks for investigating this issue and sharing your findings so far, superg! A lot of us are very appreciative of the work you are doing on this feature of the gscartsw!

Do you feel reasonably confident that you will be able to correct this sync issue with your sync regeneration function?

If that's the problem, it can be done.
If it is something else - I'm not sure, current gscartsw uses Altera Max V which doesn't have PLL thus I can't do advanced timing.
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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:15 pm 


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Ok, the problem was exactly what I thought it is and I managed to fix it in newest gscartsw firmware.
Image
Now I have to check other consoles and maybe implement more automatic way of handling the correction in gscartsw.
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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:16 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 191
superg wrote:
Ok, the problem was exactly what I thought it is and I managed to fix it in newest gscartsw firmware.
Image
Now I have to check other consoles and maybe implement more automatic way of handling the correction in gscartsw.


That's awesome, superg! Well done!

Neo Geo AES is another console worth testing. There's been reports of issues with some PAL consoles too (Mega Drive, SMS etc), but not sure if you have access to any PAL systems to test?


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:19 pm 


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xga wrote:
That's awesome, superg! Well done!

Neo Geo AES is another console worth testing. There's been reports of issues with some PAL consoles too (Mega Drive, SMS etc), but not sure if you have access to any PAL systems to test?

I don't own AES but I have some PAL consoles (Mega Drive and Dreamcast).
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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:38 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 191
superg wrote:
xga wrote:
That's awesome, superg! Well done!

Neo Geo AES is another console worth testing. There's been reports of issues with some PAL consoles too (Mega Drive, SMS etc), but not sure if you have access to any PAL systems to test?

I don't own AES but I have some PAL consoles (Mega Drive and Dreamcast).


PAL Mega Drive's (even when modded for 60Hz) do not sync at all with the BKM-68X boards on the A20F1 monitors, so hopefully your scope displays something weird happening with the sync signal and you can correct it in the gscart's firmware. I always thought this was because of the different clock crystal used in the PAL Mega Drive.

PAL Mega Drive's also have sync issues in Master System mode too, so worth testing if your firmware fix corrects this too or if it is a slightly different issue.


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:18 pm 


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xga wrote:
PAL Mega Drive's (even when modded for 60Hz) do not sync at all with the BKM-68X boards on the A20F1 monitors, so hopefully your scope displays something weird happening with the sync signal and you can correct it in the gscart's firmware. I always thought this was because of the different clock crystal used in the PAL Mega Drive.

PAL Mega Drive's also have sync issues in Master System mode too, so worth testing if your firmware fix corrects this too or if it is a slightly different issue.

I can't reproduce the issue on my BVM-D9H5U using PAL Mega Drive 2, behaves the same as Genesis 2, native mode is fine, SMS mode isn't.
Will try my PAL MD1 next.
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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:38 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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Would using an Extron device to fix the sync issues degrade the image quality or create any lag?


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:56 am 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 191
GeneraLight wrote:
Would using an Extron device to fix the sync issues degrade the image quality or create any lag?


Providing that your using good shielded cables, then there should be little degradation to the image quality and any added lag would be negligible I would think. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a single Extron device that resolves all of the sync issues with the A20F1 and BKM-68X combo, hence why we are hoping that superg can crack the code with these sync issues!


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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:05 am 


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PAL MD1 also works the same as MD2, I don't see the issue on my PVM. It could be that those A series and D series have different problems.
I will check Dreamcast tomorrow. I hope at least all Sega's in question share the same problem, I'm not gonna be able to fix all kind of sync issues with the switch.
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 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:12 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 191
superg wrote:
PAL MD1 also works the same as MD2, I don't see the issue on my PVM. It could be that those A series and D series have different problems.
I will check Dreamcast tomorrow. I hope at least all Sega's in question share the same problem, I'm not gonna be able to fix all kind of sync issues with the switch.


You'll probably only get the skew issue on your BVM-D9 with the Sega Master System and AES consoles. It's the A series of BVM's with the RGB input board that have these issues as well as some PAL consoles not able to sync at all.


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